Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny

[VinoeWhines]

After a few months of this Destiny being out, what would people change or suggest to bring back to this Identity Crisis Tree.
Certain things aren't stacking as was proposed. Incorporeal with Ghostly and Wand and Scroll Mastery.

1. They could hard code it to have Minimum Rogue levels to bring back stealth instakills, like they hard code Weird to have certain levels of casting abilities in Tree(such as ability to Assassinate in order to pick certain abilities. Executioner Strike/Shot, Improve Meld, Consume, Shadow Manipulation and Dark Imbuement.)
2. Bring back Anti-Tremor Sense.
3. Ability to Confuse Reapers and also Distract them(Ventriloquism D&D).
4. Epic Moment should have Dark Discorporation tied to it, 95% Dodge, 25% Stacking Incorporeal to insure you don't get hit and get killed in End Game content.
5. Summon a Shadow Spider that can PK a target and Pull levers.
6. It was suppose to be a high avoidance Tree and so far it doesn't seem so strong in avoidance "Themed".
7. Debuffs should be(unique and) a bit stronger/last longer for Red Named/Doom Reapers.
8. Should have tie-ins to Measure the Foe, Execute, Deadly Strikes, Assassinate and Mechanic/Thief Acrobat Trees/Feats.
9. Meld should not be tied into Epic Strikes but a separate Stronger higher Defensive Tree unless it keeps increasing your Dodge as long as you keep staying stealthed while using attacks in stealth, like Shiv, Sap, Poison Strikes, Lay Traps, Tumble, still in Measure The Foe buff, etc.
10. Be able to Shadow Charm mobs, like Shadow Manipulation(Dominate).

[DYWYPI]

I'd propose the removal of "From the Shadows" or a do a complete rewrite of it. If it was a short-timed Sneaking speed boost effect or allowed you to pass through enemies (or was used outside of Sneak) it might have been nearly viable. It's basically a complete waste of space as it stands. We already know none of the Developers involved with the ED redesign actually enjoy stealth-play style Assassins anyway.

[Saekee]

those are great suggestions

I find stuff is too brief. It seems some concealment stuff is stacking somewhere.

Part of the problem is that DC Cower is just sooooo good.

I really like the idea of sneaking past reapers.

The saving grace of assassins right now for CC for me is the Legendary Goldcurse dagger, insanely good and will probably get nerfed to rubbish soon.

[VinoeWhines]

those are great suggestions

Part of the problem is that DC Cower is just sooooo good.

I'm curious if you could expand on this thought as I thought the proc (C.C.) only lasts for 4 seconds compared to Leg Dread's Dire Charge lasting longer?

[Saekee]

I'm curious if you could expand on this thought as I thought the proc (C.C.) only lasts for 4 seconds compared to Leg Dread's Dire Charge lasting longer?

It is in conjunction with SDK chain attack that makes it crazy good as the chain will sweep all the helpless chumps around you. It also does not break stealth to activate so you can really help a party even without chains—assassinate, Cower, let others THF cleave a bit and pad their kill count.


There is great potential in the matching of 1d6 scaling bane damage to sneak damage in this tree for brief moments that if it was extended to a more sustainable uptick, would make this tree really lethal. Divine Crusader has Law damage 1d6 per epic level which is much poorer than the 40d6 or so sneak dice rogues are getting at cap with gear and destinies. That is 40d6 bane damage (unresistable) plus scaling. It is just that is is good for only a few seconds after the epic strike. I want it to overlap into every epic strike or do something more with the First Blood feat they try to use.

[VinoeWhines]

I'd propose the removal of "From the Shadows" or a do a complete rewrite of it. If it was a short-timed Sneaking speed boost effect or allowed you to pass through enemies (or was used outside of Sneak) it might have been nearly viable. It's basically a complete waste of space as it stands. We already know none of the Developers involved with the ED redesign actually enjoy stealth-play style Assassins anyway.

I believe it does allow you to pass through enemies and get a somewhat Abundant Step/Wings effect which both come in handy. I would say that was the most creative new ability (functionality wise) and everything else has Identiy crisis of a mixed tree that never should of had it's former abilities removed but added to it or adjusted.

It can be used as a get out of danger ability if your being cornered or pursued.
You can hit it and then ddoor on other side of leap or reach a further ledge, especially if you time it with Propulsion boots.


From the Shadows: From a stealthed position, dissolve into shadows, before appearing some distance in front of you. This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained. Note: This ability requires the character to have the Stealth feat active ("in stealth") to use it.

Ya I would definitely want a rework on it, in that all the enemies you pass through are autmatically "Sapped*" and suffer 1d10 Con and Dex damage from Sneak Attack Shivving them and causing slowdown maybe 10%(tendon slice/Salt effect and on Vorpal "Limb Chopper**") per attack.
*Sap: When this feat is activated, a melee special attack is made. If it hits, the victim is dazed for 18 seconds normally or 30 seconds from a successful sneak attack.

**Limb Chopper: This potent and feared ability allows the weapon to sever the limbs of those it strikes. On an attack roll of 20 which is confirmed as a critical hit, the weapon severs an opponent's limb from its body. Some creatures, including many aberrations and all oozes, have no limbs. Others, such as golems and undead creatures, are not affected by the loss of their limbs. Most other creatures, however, have their movement slowed 75% and attacks slowed by 50% when a limb is cut off.

Also Poison Strikes should be implemented in Tree causing creatures to eventually fall Helpless and knocked down from Poison effects cowering over their bodies in pain also having it possibly Blind them at first.

[jskinner937]

Currently, investing to T5 in this tree is lucrative only for a Fey sorc or maybe a deep gnome/gnome wizzy that is pushing arcane alacrity to max. And it is silly that the best DPS rogue builds are in Divine Crusader. I would propose creating a new martial ED altogether at this point. The niche weird casters do well with this tree. Make a tree like the old SD and maybe add some melee DPS flavor to compete with DC even if not a rogue type.

While on the subject, there seems to be a void of a natural fighting tree as well. With Tabaxi coming out, and with shifter and wolf/bear already here, there could be use for a new divine tree as well. One that promotes using natural fighting or use of claws.

[VinoeWhines]

While on the subject, there seems to be a void of a natural fighting tree as well. With Tabaxi coming out, and with shifter and wolf/bear already here, there could be use for a new divine tree as well. One that promotes using natural fighting or use of claws.

You would think that they would of gone all in, in the Primal Avatar Tree as a thematic style to Natural/Primal tree fighting and would of made a nice landing spot there, but seeing how they Taxonomized Shadow Dancer to an unknown creature of what it use to be, maybe it was best they didn't.

Cut the Strings/Time Stop, is a nice example of creativity and implementation, too bad they didn't focus that as much in Shadow Dancer...

[Synthetic]

Currently, investing to T5 in this tree is lucrative only for a Fey sorc or maybe a deep gnome/gnome wizzy that is pushing arcane alacrity to max. And it is silly that the best DPS rogue builds are in Divine Crusader. I would propose creating a new martial ED altogether at this point. The niche weird casters do well with this tree. Make a tree like the old SD and maybe add some melee DPS flavor to compete with DC even if not a rogue type.

Do you have DPS numbers for the build?

The 41d6 damage from SD epic strike would seem to still be better than the 10% increase from DC. I thought the Carpone build was more a utility build - debuff, buff, CC - than a pure DPS, and probably why he didn't include a DPS comparison.

[Saekee]

Do you have DPS numbers for the build?

The 41d6 damage from SD epic strike would seem to still be better than the 10% increase from DC. I thought the Carpone build was more a utility build - debuff, buff, CC - than a pure DPS, and probably why he didn't include a DPS comparison.

Law of the Divine does 10d6 damage always (scaling 200% with melee power) and adds one stack of vulnerable and armor destruction per hit with a small cooldown. So I would factor that in along with the 10% boost from Crusade

The update tomorrow will ‘de-couple’ some of the upper tier epic strike features of SD but I feel that doesn’t address any of our concerns.

[DYWYPI]

The "From the Shadows" ability does NOT allow you to pass through enemies. For example: get yourself completely surrounded in the quest Haverdasher, enter sneak; trigger 'From the Shadows', and you'll stay stuck in place...

It's advertised as a surprise attack opener and not an emergency "escape death button" when you are only a few HP away from the afterlife. If you are hemmed in (or get hit out of sneak) you won't even be able to use it anyway.

If you ever need Dimension Door to save your life, you've already failed in a sense (completely over your head and using it as a final resort). If 'From the Shadows' were an escape mechanism it should basically just teleport you immediately to the quest entrance.

It's near useless for an Assassin; it's like being randomly fired around by 'Spies in the House' air jets. The assassin doesn't do sweeping strikes to multiple targets... The only attack they perform from Sneak is Assassinate (and they may want to remain in stealth after the 1-hit assassination: to sneak off). They certainly don't randomly long-range fire themselves; at set-distance, straight line only, at ridiculous speed to perform assassinate.

Neither is it of much use as a 'speed boost' because it fires you set-distance in a dead-straight-line (you cannot easily alter trajectory). I couldn't even get any real benefit from using it within 'Fire on Thunder Peak' trying to close the gap with my target, while pursuing fleeing enemies... It's just so poorly designed. Whereas if it were amended, to incorporate what I mentioned in my prior post it'd be dramatically more useful.

As it stands; it's probably not even great for leaping over chasms (-20 penalty to Jump and Tumble skills due to being in stealth). Unfortunately what it closely resembles is a 'last resort' brief: headless chicken propulsion effect...

[MacDubh]

Hopeful Zombie Shadowdancer said "Why was I made into a freakish split personality Monster Meld? It was fun before .... Sob."

[Saekee]

For me the big question is, what will be needed to make me give up Divine Crusader for the tier 5 and other goodies? Cower is uber powerful and you also heal yourself (ok in reaper only a little) but also your fellow party members. Getting a constant 1d6 scaling damage from embidment of law is sweet and easy compared to Shadowdancer’s First Blood thingamajig. Here is what would flip me:

1. have the bonus bane damage more constant somehow, either by having the effects from the epic strike last longer or some hybrid
2. What if First Blood procs an assassinate? That would be crazy, maybe OP, perhaps with a 1s internal cooldown
3. The epic moment seems organized for trash whereas what we need is red named beater epic moment. I want something that procs temp hp based on sneak die for example like Unyielding Sentinel has for its basic epic strike
4. I want something that lets me sneak past reapers in the tree too. DEVS THIS WILL NOT BREAK YOUR GAME, YOU ARE SAFE