I'd appreciate a way to combine all Daily Roll XP Gems you hoard into 1 Gem.

[Qlumsee]

Lots of suggestions here, but in the end a change wouldn't be great. The current system works fine for me and, let's face it, it's something for nothing. Be careful of what you wish for.

[Eantarus]

Lots of suggestions here, but in the end a change wouldn't be great. The current system works fine for me and, let's face it, it's something for nothing. Be careful of what you wish for.

I'm not suggesting any changes personally. Its just based the dev comment it sounds like SSG doesn't want us to hoard them. If that's the case, I want to know what they think we should be doing with them?

[Dnarth]

Lots of suggestions here, but in the end a change wouldn't be great. The current system works fine for me and, let's face it, it's something for nothing. Be careful of what you wish for.

I will give you daily silver rolls are something for nothing. Gold rolls are not something for nothing. Those are bought. Simple elementary school econ here. No wonder the world is in debt....... lol least it's just fiat.

[brian14]

I'm not suggesting any changes personally. Its just based the dev comment it sounds like SSG doesn't want us to hoard them. If that's the case, I want to know what they think we should be doing with them?

SSG thinks you should use XP Gems immediately. They were explicit about it regarding the XP gems you get from saga rewards.

[SiliconScout]

SSG thinks you should use XP Gems immediately. They were explicit about it regarding the XP gems you get from saga rewards.

I don't disagree that they would prefer we use them immediately but I still maintain the real reason they don't want them to stack is because if they can stack then they can be duped.

[ahpook]

I don't disagree that they would prefer we use them immediately but I still maintain the real reason they don't want them to stack is because if they can stack then they can be duped.

I think you are correct. At the same time, after the duping exploits in this game, I am amazed that the producer of this game is comfortable not having 99.999% confidence that the stack dupe issue had been eradicated and that what you describe is not an issue.

[SiliconScout]

I think you are correct. At the same time, after the duping exploits in this game, I am amazed that the producer of this game is comfortable not having 99.999% confidence that the stack dupe issue had been eradicated and that what you describe is not an issue.

Unfortunately Duping is still more or less rampant it is just that those who know keep that knowledge tightly tightly guarded now. The common "easy" methods are gone but given the year round availability of otto's and Tenser's boxes for pennies on the dollar (if you know where to look) screams otherwise.

[Dendrix]

Here is how to make it awesome and reuse a lot of existing code:

Add a new currency type: Banked XP.
It's an server wide currency, just like Astral Shards.
Stick it on the Character sheet with an XP graphic next to it.

Gold and Silver rolls no longer grant you the stones directly, they update the Banked XP currency, just like Astral Shards does. (Yes I do know the item appears briefly in your inventory and is auto consumed).

To gain the XP on a character: Click on the XP symbol on the character sheet for your Banked XP currency slot. This pops up the type in a number dialog and then type in how much you want to gain and hit OK. Confirm this with the existing gain XP dialog.

Done. Look, no duping available as no items are there to be duped.



Dice Rolls Improvement:
Of course the gold and silver dice rolls should have a pair of D10's dice rolling on the screen tumbling in front of you (one numbered 10-20-30-40-50-60-70-80-90-00 the other numbered 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0) - and those dice should be gold or silver coloured.
Text on Screen saying "Free Daily Roll" if it is the free one, make people feel good about your generosity. Using Astral Shards text says "15 Astral Shard Roll" or "3 Astral Shard Roll"
Dice vanish in 20 seconds or mouse click/key press to dismiss.
The rewards should come up in a small font in the middle of the screen and grow in size to fill the screen over a 5 second time and remain on screen for 20 seconds or mouse click/key press to dismiss



As for the amount stored:
Personally I eat the stones so I can avoid the tedious regearing through those early levels and all the inventory/character swapping. I XP stone to to level 5. Put on kit. Play the lower levelled quests I like and then run "proper" quests to 10. Swap gear. run quests to 15. Swap gear. run quests to 18. Reincarnate.

[Chilldude]

As a developer, when you develop something it has an intended purpose. In fact, almost everything you make as a developer starts with the intention, you want to make something that performs some function. Rarely do you hit the nail on the head the first try. You make something, you see what it actually does, you make changes to the something to make it function closer to your intentions, and you see what this new thing actually does. You repeat this process until the thing you made functions in the way you intended it to function.

It's pretty obvious the intention of the daily roll was to motivate players to log in more frequently. With DDO's critically low population, it was a very good idea to try to get people to log in more often. If you've ever been in a raid group very early on when it's trying to fill you've seen people join, wait around awhile, and then leave because there were only a few players and they didn't want to waste their time waiting around on something that might never happen. As the raid starts to fill it fills faster and faster as the chance of it not happening rapidly decreases until finally you are turning away players when it becomes full. If a player logs in and there is no one around it's very much like joining a raid with only a couple of players, the chances are pretty good that you're going to waste your time waiting around and nothing is going to come of it.

As an example, take a guild with 20 members. Someone logs in, nobody is on in the guild, they wait around a couple minutes and then log off to find something better to do. A bit later another member of the guild does the same thing. It could happen several times a day, guild members log in, nobody is around, so they log right back out. People will start to log in with exponentially less frequency because every time they log in nobody is around, and it becomes a recursive death spiral.

Conversely, if nearly everyone in the guild logged in nearly every day, then the chances of running into someone else increases exponentially. The more frequently you log in and find someone to do something with the more frequently you'll want to log in, which in turn increases the odds that you'll be there when someone else logs in giving them something to do.

So we have a good intention, get players to log in more frequently. The developers decided a good way to get people to log in would be to give them some XP and a prize, both very sound ideas. What's the number one thing DDO players are looking for? XP. I'd say giving players XP for logging in every day is an excellent idea. Loot isn't a bad idea either as it's what people are after right behind XP.

So what's the problem? Well, the problem is the same problem that affects nearly everything in DDO, the developers aren't very good. They had a solid intended purpose and came up with a sound idea to perform that function, but their implementation was so terrible that it didn't even begin to perform that function. Worse, like everything else they do, they did absolutely nothing to make it function as intended!

They came up with a daily roll, which is a terrible idea right off the bat. How long do you need to be logged in to perform a daily roll? Under a minute. They shot themselves in the foot right out of the gate. You want players to log in and stick around for bit so that there is a chance for players to run in to each other, log in, roll, and log out does not satisfy that function at all.

The XP they give players is actually negative XP! They actually take XP away from players with the daily roll. I logged in and rolled a 65 on my silver roll. I got 400 XP. 400 XP is .01% of the 3.8 million XP it takes to get to level 20. To put it another way, it would take almost TEN THOUSAND 400 XP gems to get to 20. To put it another way, some people say you can get to 20 in less than 8 hours these days, that's roughly 500 minutes or ~30,000 seconds. The 400 XP daily roll gem would save you about 3 seconds. THREE SECONDS! That means if the entire process of rolling, waiting, finding the gem in your bags and clicking it takes longer than 3 seconds, which it almost assuredly would, then you would have actually earned more XP by skipping the roll and going straight to a quest. That was a 65, which means OVER HALF the rolls will award LESS XP!

In no way, shape, or form does 400 XP provide any sort of motivation to log in on a daily basis.

COMPLETE FAILURE TO FUNCTION AS INTENDED!

My prize for rolling a 65 was a haste pot. A haste pot. A haste pot? A haste pot. I don't know about you, but for me, a haste pot in no way motivates me to log in the next day to see what great prize awaits.

So the daily roll is a complete failure. I've known for a very long time that it is a complete waste of time to even roll. I've only every gotten like 2 things that weren't complete garbage for a prize and the XP is so terrible that it's actually a chore to hunt down all the inventory clogging trash. I would vastly prefer not getting any XP at all. It's actually worse than a complete failure, the daily roll is a joke, and a bad joke at that.

Now, if I am wrong, and the developers intention was to create a system that clogs your inventory with useless trash and wastes your time, then I have to applaud them, they are great developers and it is functioning exactly as intended. I don't think I'm wrong though, I think the intended purpose of the daily roll is quite obvious, and the daily roll unequivocally does not function as intended.

So what would?

It's easy to sit back and poke fun at a bad idea, but in this case it's even easier to come up with a much better idea...

Meet George, the daily quest giver in the Marketplace. Every day George picks 6 random quests as his daily quest challenge. Each quest is in a different level range and can only be completed by players in that range. If you complete George's quest and return to him he will award you XP and possibly a loot reward from the DDO store. The XP awarded is not modified by any usual items or buffs (except of course the 10% VIP bonus which applies to everything... I think?), however, it is modified by who you complete the quest with. He gives you 10% more XP per player in your party, or 20% for each guild member in your party, for a possible 100% bonus.

The ranges and XP awarded are 1-5 = 10K, 6-10 = 20K, 11-15 = 30K, 16-20 = 40K, 21-25 = 50K, 26+ = 60K.

On Saturdays and Sundays there is a 50% weekend bonus that is applied to the total XP awarded as well as an additional quest.

If you don't die in the quest you get to roll for a prize from a list of consumables in the DDO store.

Oh, did I forget to mention that the daily quest challenge must be completed on Reaper 5 skull difficulty?

This would give you a reason to log in more frequently. This would give you a reason to quest with other players. This would give you a reason to play with guildmates, recruit guildmates, and even combine smaller guilds. This would give stronger players a reason to bring weaker players along as well as a reason for weaker players to seek out stronger players. This would give you a reason to log in on weekends.

This would do so much for the game. They wouldn't just be giving away XP for logging in, clicking a button, and logging out. Players would not only have to earn their daily reward, they'd need to work together, and everyone would be better rewarded for having done so.

Would some elitists be elitist about it? Of course they would. A tiger can't change his stripes. However, there are going to be a lot of LFMs up for the daily quest providing a lot of opportunity for players to meet each other, make friendships, and grow their guilds further strengthening those friendships. Plus, it would afford the elitists a chance to show off. Just as a tree that falls in the forest makes no sound if no one is around to hear it, an elitist that ROFLstomps gets no applause if no one is around to cheer them.

I know that initially these XP awards might seem excessive given how tight fisted DDO is with XP, but they really aren't all that extravagant at all. Someone in heroics doing the daily quest each day is only going to get 400K max during the week, more probably around 300K unless they are in a very large guild. On weekends there'd be a pretty good chance of running guilded so 480K at the very most, that'd be running 2 fully guilded r5's on both Sat and Sun. 480+400 is a theoretical max of only 880K per week in heroics, that still leaves another 3 million XP to be earned. To put it another way, the grind in DDO is so stupendously ludicrous that this seemingly over the top bonus barely makes a dent. Triple completionist would still take years and years and years and years and years and years for the average player.

It would be so easy for DDO to implement this, and if they did the game would transform overnight, but they never will because they are completely satisfied milking the few remaining cash cows they got left for every drop they have in them.

[Amorais]

There's ways around this - sort of. I have a couple of mules I get to 20 , full their bank with gems and TR them. Then the gems are sat in their TR bank and not taking up space.

Bit of a bind but doing this I got my main toon to 8th level using hoarded gems yesterday

I agree with Cordovan...stacking might make this an abusable mechanic in the long run.

[brian14]

There's ways around this - sort of. I have a couple of mules I get to 20 , full their bank with gems and TR them. Then the gems are sat in their TR bank and not taking up space.

Bit of a bind but doing this I got my main toon to 8th level using hoarded gems yesterday

That seems counterproductive. It takes less time and effort to get the main to level 8 than to get a mule to 20.

[mbartol]

I agree with Cordovan...stacking might make this an abusable mechanic in the long run.

Not really—they sell Otto’s Boxes. How many daily rolls would it take to equal one of those? Even with daily VIP gold rolls, that’s a long time.

Unless of course you (and Cordovan) mean duping stones by making them stackable. So, therefore an honest use of XP stones has to be taken away from honest players because SSG can’t fix the duping problem. Just like honest players were punished with regards to the anniversary trading cards and night revels ingredients. I may be wrong, but it feels like this to me.

[Stoner81]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

How would they?

WE ARE ALREADY HOARDING THEM!

Read the above again! As others have already saying getting enough XP to create an Otto's XP Stone would take years and years to do. But by fixing this then it frees up a lot of space in inventory, banks and mules which is at an all time high premium right now.

[Valerianus]

Not really—they sell Otto’s Boxes. How many daily rolls would it take to equal one of those? Even with daily VIP gold rolls, that’s a long time.

Unless of course you (and Cordovan) mean duping stones by making them stackable. So, therefore an honest use of XP stones has to be taken away from honest players because SSG can’t fix the duping problem. Just like honest players were punished with regards to the anniversary trading cards and night revels ingredients. I may be wrong, but it feels like this to me.

start of my very humble ranty opinion, also biased by my personal preferences, with no intention of criticize whatever my dear fellow players are doing. and talking in general, not directly to the person i quoted.

it's taking nothing away from honest players, devs perfectly know what free xp stones are worth. that is, nothing. thye are a free gift, or not so free if they are gold rolls, but no way are they meant to be used effectively in any phase of the leveling process. no way they are meant to be worth something. except if you fall into the trap and give them worth, and start hoarding them. like, mules (chars slots, bank\inventory) (time for favor unlock\ddo points to buy) and even moar time (storage management + if you don't log in you are "missing something omg what a nasty feeling", truer if you vip since you are paying) and add the boredom factor of managing it.

they are just a hook and a lure.

imho the time alone needed to manage hoarding xp stones, turn it into running some quick selected quest even on normal, doable with any random build\random gear....the quest is probably faster than storage management and for sure cheaper in any phase of the leveling process.


they'll never be stackable, never meant to be. they are meant to put you in gollum mode and whisper my precioussss and crave it. they are selling xp pots, gold rolls and otto, that's what they are interested in.

only exception: faster leveling in the very first levels using gold roll stones worth some k in tr train, but imho it's still debatable, put together all the time you need to manage the storing opposed to play some. this depends on the player and how you organize it. and anyway, consider the horrible storage this game has, and if you are vip, the nasty feeling of missing what you are paying for if you don't hoard it. it's set up on purpose to add a layer to the mule\char slot\storage slots issue, like selling storage patches like dimensional augment bag and hireling folders as high tier expansion bundles, leveraging game flaws to sell patches, not solutions. solutions, they cost.


end of my very humble ranty opinion, also biased by my personal preferences, with no intention of criticize whatever my dear fellow players are doing.



edit: it sounded maybe too aggressive the talk about trap and hook and lure. like some evil plot. it wasn't meant to be, it was supposed to be neutral. i'd better specify that there's a tacit concept under it that i did not express. i find it obvious and normal, nor good nor bad, if a mmo\product\advertise\whatever put in place something to draw attention and make you want something, like tricks that may be compared to trap\hook\lure. also the customer may find something entertaining if they bite and decide to bite, then it's a win-win. and it is also normal to pay for entertainment, whatever it means, also managing some big hoard in a mmo may be entertainment, why not, if you like it. but in the case of xp stones, i think that keeping them and wasting time for them is really messy cause they are not meant to be hoarded, and if you do, not money\time worth because the horrible storage system this game has. the horror.

[Amorais]

That seems counterproductive. It takes less time and effort to get the main to level 8 than to get a mule to 20.

Well, since they were going to 20 anyway it seemed a no-brainer to use them as gem hoarders.

Buy yeah, its probably not the most efficient thing in the world

[Juduss]

Lol I can see the future patch notes now: “Daily Dice XP will no longer produce a Stone of XP. Instead, all XP results from Daily Dice will be auto applied.”

Dev goal of non-hoarding? Check! Player goal of non-clogging? Check! Players happy with their “solution” to the “problem?” Nope!

Seems like how it usually goes…

[mbartol]

Lol I can see the future patch notes now: “Daily Dice XP will no longer produce a Stone of XP. Instead, all XP results from Daily Dice will be auto applied.”

Dev goal of non-hoarding? Check! Player goal of non-clogging? Check! Players happy with their “solution” to the “problem?” Nope!

Seems like how it usually goes…

Corrupt-a-wish in its truest form.

[Syrrah]

We can solve this problem by making 1/10exp (or 1/20) available as SentinentEXP

I just want to echo this here. Let the stone be used for sentience xp at a severe penalty.

[ChicagoChris]

No need to speculate, it is absolutely true that stacking XP stones would create extremely problematic behavior for the long-term health of the game. We don't have plans to change the way these stones work, but if we did, offering further opportunity to hoard them would not likely be something we would pursue.

Cordo - Any thoughts of being able to feed them to Jewels at maybe a 25% value (100xp = 25 sentient)? maybe only for XP < 1000?

[SiliconScout]

...

Oh, did I forget to mention that the daily quest challenge must be completed on Reaper 5 skull difficulty?

...

Was going good on the suggestion (though the beginning was overly hostile) right up to this point. This basically locks out a large segment of the population because people who run R5+ can either solo it (so why bother bringing others) or already have a group that they run win (and basically don't need more). This would result, largely, in the same kind of abject failure you consider the daily dice to be.

A better implementation to this idea would be to require the quest to be run at Elite or higher difficulty and award XP based on the number of players who completed the quest. It's still open to exploitation / elitism but at least if people get locked out of the groups they can likely get their own together PDQ.

The buddy bonus events see more players playing together, build on that instead because it actually works for population and grouping.