Why ottos boxes must be 10x cheaper and available permanently in store

[Deathwing_The_Dragon]

I have around 10 alts - out of which 9 of them are barely playable given the constant nerfs and adjustments to variety of classes/builds over past 2 years. I do not have the same interest to TR them and level up all the way to level 30, only for Steelstar to wake up one morning on the wrong side of the bed and nerf a class/build/playstyle, making an alt redundant again.

So I request that Ottos boxes be available in the store 24x7x365 and they are 10x cheaper, so I can get my alts back to cap and play end-game (or what is left of it) rather than Haverdasher. This wont reduce your profits, since as I stated above, Steelstar or other devs can make a class/playstyle redundant in a couple of hours work, and we end up TRing to the viable build again.

[Bjond]

I have around 10 alts - out of which 9 of them are barely playable

Hmm. I have 5 characters: ranged, melee (x2), tank, & caster. All were playable after U51 without farming or TR'ing, though they have all significantly improved after finding all the issues with EDs and changes (both OP and not). That's improved relative to U51/new not relative to pre-U51. Most are much less versatile compared to pre-U51 and weaker in other ways, too.

I did find the adaptation phase to be so absurdly costly in terms of time that I'm definitely not willing to go through anything like that again in the next couple years. The bugs just keep piling up and the lag keeps getting worse, too.

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On the Otto topic, I'm all for completely eliminating the Heroic game. I would prefer for all characters to simply be born at L20 with full heroic/racial PLs. Even if Heroic Otto was free, I'd probably end up logging in less and less because I wouldn't want to face the TR process.

I usually avoid DDO for a day or so when a character is ready for TR -- a couple times for up to a week. I suspect I'd be totally gone by around the 10th one.

[ChaosBuddha]

couldn't agree more. while u at it devs why don't u pay my mortgage, feed my dog and hook me up with some side gfs.

[dredre9987]

I don't understand the point of paying to NOT play a game. If you don't want to play don't.

[MaeveTuohy]

On the Otto topic, I'm all for completely eliminating the Heroic game. I would prefer for all characters to simply be born at L20 with full heroic/racial PLs. Even if Heroic Otto was free, I'd probably end up logging in less and less because I wouldn't want to face the TR process.

Fair call on the TR process.

If I was to get rid of part of the game it would be epic/legendary and stick to heroics.

Everyone's mileage varies it seems.

[Fauxknight]

On the Otto topic, I'm all for completely eliminating the Heroic game. I would prefer for all characters to simply be born at L20 with full heroic/racial PLs. Even if Heroic Otto was free, I'd probably end up logging in less and less because I wouldn't want to face the TR process.

I respectfully disagree with this. PLs are rewards for playing the game, if everyone had all of them then a large portion of what many people are playing for would be gone. At that point I'd simply sit at level 30 and play gear tetris, and when that was done to my satisfaction I'd quit the game.

I don't understand what's daunting about the TR process, it's not particularly difficult.

[Oxarhamar]

I respectfully disagree with this. PLs are rewards for playing the game, if everyone had all of them then a large portion of what many people are playing for would be gone. At that point I'd simply sit at level 30 and play gear tetris, and when that was done to my satisfaction I'd quit the game.

I don't understand what's daunting about the TR process, it's not particularly difficult.

I agree

If TR was not here I'd have been gone along time ago being able to TR and replay the game adding bonuses as you go is the biggest reason I keep playing after the D&D theme

I'm not against Otto being lower maybe not 10x but if it increases support for the game I don't use them and won't even if they were

[krimsonrane]

I have around 10 alts - out of which 9 of them are barely playable given the constant nerfs and adjustments to variety of classes/builds over past 2 years. I do not have the same interest to TR them and level up all the way to level 30, only for Steelstar to wake up one morning on the wrong side of the bed and nerf a class/build/playstyle, making an alt redundant again.

So I request that Ottos boxes be available in the store 24x7x365 and they are 10x cheaper, so I can get my alts back to cap and play end-game (or what is left of it) rather than Haverdasher. This wont reduce your profits, since as I stated above, Steelstar or other devs can make a class/playstyle redundant in a couple of hours work, and we end up TRing to the viable build again.

I basically said much of the same last week but I didn't recommend ottos. I'd say yes to your request but the fact is, I don't want to support PTW. If anything, give us (VIP accounts) half a dozen otto boxes without asking for more money than we're already paying. I get really tired and angered at having to pay to fix problems I didn't create.

[unbongwah]

I don't understand the point of paying to NOT play a game. If you don't want to play don't.

Since I don't know what the OP considers "barely playable," it's hard to know how seriously to take their complaints. But it's not so much "paying to avoid playing the game" as it is "make it cheaper to 'fix' our characters every time they get nerfed." Like, say, if you were playing a monkcher only to have SSG nerf TTS so it no longer worked with bows; and you either need to LR into a shuriken build or TR into a different archer build.

[AlcoArgo]

Otto's boxes are fine. They should be rare and expensive so that people can't so easily pay to win. If you don't have time to play your alts then why do you have 10 of them? There is nothing in this game that is all that difficult unless you are doing mid-high reapers. If you have a "broken" alt then LR. Asking the devs to allow you to cheaply buy your way into uberness is just plain lazy.

[dredre9987]

Since I don't know what the OP considers "barely playable," it's hard to know how seriously to take their complaints. But it's not so much "paying to avoid playing the game" as it is "make it cheaper to 'fix' our characters every time they get nerfed." Like, say, if you were playing a monkcher only to have SSG nerf TTS so it no longer worked with bows; and you either need to LR into a shuriken build or TR into a different archer build.

Point taken. On the other hand just about any character can get dragged to 20. I currently have 43 characters on my main server ( with double digits every other server ) of those 43 at least 20 have been completely broken by game changes over the years. Of those 20 I have a single one that got stuck before 20 but he is almost there if I actually play him. ( with the way a main character is pushed since reaper he probably isn't moving anytime soon )

I can literally post in guild, ask friends, or even LFM and say hey this toon is broke can I get some help to 20 and I bet I get whatever help I need.

[Bjond]

get rid of part of the game it would be epic/legendary and stick to heroics.

I was just trying to think of a situation where I'd like heroics and what I came up with is if I was playing with a kid -- mine, niece, nephew, etc..

Heroics are so absurdly easy that I get sleepy playing them. And reaper doesn't help. It's not scaled correctly. My melee can run R4 as easily as HE with the exception of Plague reapers. A couple of those and there's just no fix but to restart the quest. Caster & Ranged have no problems solo'ing R6, but .. heh .. why? The RXP is too low to bother with in Heroic.

Heroic is like going to Disney Land as an adult. Dull. Bring a kid, though, and oh wow. So, yeah. I can see a place for heroic.

I respectfully disagree with this. PLs are rewards for playing the game

They're a carrot to entice people to do something they'd rather not do AND a balance nightmare. If it was a perq for playing, it wouldn't be tied to a level range or particular classes or races, but overall XP. It's literally a motivator to replay content, likely because DDO doesn't have an "end game" the way other MMOs do it.

That's not why I want to remove it, though. It's because I think Heroic TR'ing is bad for the game. First, it spreads players out, making for a very broad but very shallow LFM pool; ie. more solo'ing whether you want it or not. Second, vets doing racial or heroic PLs move fast. They move so fast, they could be done with a quest before a newbie manages to find the entry. If a newbie finds the entry or joins at the start, the group will be in maximum skip/zerg mode.

This is not a newbie-welcoming environment and it really should be.

what's daunting about the TR process, it's not particularly difficult.

I loose an entire day to each TR. Running through the pre-TR checklist. Log-in/out. Screenshots to prove it had tomes/etc before the TR so I can sue 'em if they demur on replacement (or outright ignore a ticket). Then there's rebuilding the character exactly the way I had it, which should be a single button click, but instead has to go through the entire absurd set of choices all over again. So, yes, not hard, but OMG the tedium.

I want to log on and play, not waste an entire session on character & inventory management. That's why I don't do Otto's myself. Even boring Heroic leveling beats being locked in the same room with the TR cache and character "progression" UI. Use an Otto and your ratio of play:drudge approaches zero.

[LOOON375]

The only thing I agree with is making the otto's boxes be permanent in the store.

[Merrillman]

I respectfully disagree with this. PLs are rewards for playing the game, if everyone had all of them then a large portion of what many people are playing for would be gone. At that point I'd simply sit at level 30 and play gear tetris, and when that was done to my satisfaction I'd quit the game.

I don't understand what's daunting about the TR process, it's not particularly difficult.

The problem, respectfully, with this statement is that in order to really be effective with many builds is the absolute need for at least several past lives of heroic and with several racial. With racial alone you are talking 5/4 stat points in everything for completionist (2-3 DC), plus heroic for attack/damage, Spellpoints, MRR, DC’s and a host of other things. Add to this that there are a lot of people with limited playtime or limited budgets or both, and it be aimed hard to run with groups that are majority elite and reaper play. It really counts at endgame for many people.

Heroic XP is an absolute grind. The XP for time spent is really not competitive with Epic. It takes comparatively long to level heroically, and frankly I absolutely hate it. Reaper XP needs to be equivalent to epic, at least.

[SoulDustar]

The problem, respectfully, with this statement is that in order to really be effective with many builds is the absolute need for at least several past lives of heroic and with several racial. With racial alone you are talking 5/4 stat points in everything for completionist (2-3 DC), plus heroic for attack/damage, Spellpoints, MRR, DC’s and a host of other things. Add to this that there are a lot of people with limited playtime or limited budgets or both, and it be aimed hard to run with groups that are majority elite and reaper play. It really counts at endgame for many people.

Heroic XP is an absolute grind. The XP for time spent is really not competitive with Epic. It takes comparatively long to level heroically, and frankly I absolutely hate it. Reaper XP needs to be equivalent to epic, at least.

If this were indeed true then explain how on hardcore season 5 with no past lives the top favor player completed all quests on Elite and Epic Elite. Challenges that were possible scored 6 stars on them all. Completed all raids save 3 on Epic Elite on first life characters. ( Favor 6971 ) That means that all skill checks, Stat Checks for runes, Spell DC's, and a whole range of other needs were fulfilled by first life characters in an amazingly 2 month long season. SSG can see for themselves from what is done regularly on Hardcore that DDO is not hard.

Sure some bought tomes, some kind of pots or whatever I am sure but on live servers resource management and death are certainly less difficult to handle than a server where death costs you all your currently carried possessions and restart at level 1 on korthos.

There are plenty of guides to minimize time and maximize exp in heroics.

[Wizard1406]

I agree, TR is super tedious.

Why can we only save UI layouts and not the abilities /spells etc. on the bars? Especially annoying for ETR. And why can't we save a skill/feat loadout so re-levelling isn't as tedious?

Super time consuming is ETR > HTR / ITR, where the re-leveling to 20 is completely a waste of time.

And yes I agree, heroic leveling is slow and boring. It would be better if we had cross server instances, so at least more people to play with. 1-18(19) population is spread much too thin.

[Ghwyn]

I have around 10 alts - out of which 9 of them are barely playable given the constant nerfs and adjustments to variety of classes/builds over past 2 years. I do not have the same interest to TR them and level up all the way to level 30, only for Steelstar to wake up one morning on the wrong side of the bed and nerf a class/build/playstyle, making an alt redundant again.

So I request that Ottos boxes be available in the store 24x7x365 and they are 10x cheaper, so I can get my alts back to cap and play end-game (or what is left of it) rather than Haverdasher. This wont reduce your profits, since as I stated above, Steelstar or other devs can make a class/playstyle redundant in a couple of hours work, and we end up TRing to the viable build again.

Change is what keeps this game interesting. Don't be one of those that have to play the game at only the highest level. Some of my alts are weak, so I stick to normal or hard on them, yet still enjoy the game.

As for otto boxes, SSG has it right. They need to keep people playing and money rolling in. Can't do both. Those people that have time to play for hours at a time, sometimes everyday, don't need ottos to advance past lives. Often people with money, have little time to play, so ottos helps bridge the gap. Its a win for everyone: more people playing and more money coming in. If you drop the price like you want, the money goes away, and shortly thereafter, so will the player base. Just look at the population after the disastrous card dupe. Many people duped like crazy, then stopped playing.

Look at how long this game has been around, with updates and expansions; the owners know how to run this business. Letting players make decisions when most can't keep a job or stay out of debt is just a bad idea.

[Fauxknight]

I agree, TR is super tedious.

I just TRed yesterday, PL 119 and 120. It was quick and easy enough, I think the longest part was setting up the character at level 15 (leveling, spending points, finding gear) since it's an iconic build. I think the whole process from clearing out TR cache to being ready to play with all points spent was around 40 minutes.

[Wizard1406]

I just TRed yesterday, PL 119 and 120. It was quick and easy enough, I think the longest part was setting up the character at level 15 (leveling, spending points, finding gear) since it's an iconic build. I think the whole process from clearing out TR cache to being ready to play with all points spent was around 40 minutes.

Well , if you average 20 minutes to get ready per life (40 min for ETR and ITR seem very fast to me though, maybe your TR cache is small), that's still 80 hours for 120 lives. Well over 3 days of "busy work", instead of having fun playing.

So I think some more QoL would be great. Save hotbars, save level up choices, save enhancement choices, get rid of TR cache, etc.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I have around 10 alts - out of which 9 of them are barely playable given the constant nerfs and adjustments to variety of classes/builds over past 2 years.

I do not understand you. Surely your expectations must be far too high. I play my alts with lots of fun.They are mostly low level alts, though.

At low to mid levels, I barely notice ANY nerfs and adjustments to the variety of classes/builds over the years- I don't even use fixed community builds, as low level playing/building is to me rather a great chance to wildly experiment with abilities across several classes and enhancement trees !

I do not let my self hinder by what people say here in these forums of what a "viable" build is, because I do not measure my own alts in values of min-maxing.

I'm consciously aware of the possibility to get problems at level 30 - but ... I don't have any character in that level range. I have barely some characters in the epics at all ! And I don't play them often, too, because my fun is clearly at the low-level to mid level side !

So, having said that, I actually do not understand your judgement of "barely playable". Reading this sentence of you, I expect you to ot even call a Formula 1 Racing Car to be "barely driveable".

I really do not understand remarks like "barely playable". It looks like laziness caused by too much luxury to me.