ED setup for fire sorc?

[mikarddo]

The 4 ticks per 5 seconds is also incorrect for draconic. It ticks about once every 2 seconds. Instead of .8 multi, it should be a .5, which makes shiradi much much better. The main benefit to draconic is being able to use single target spells and still get the full effect of your mantle. Meteor swarm avoids this, but your other high level spells don't.

You also probably should be running in ice savant if you are going shiradi imo.

If all you care about is damage, I think shiradi is better. But if you want more than damage, draconic / shadowdancer is almost certainly the way to go.

Why Shadowdancer? I see Evasion, Threat Reduction, Spell cooldown reduction and some spell points. Is there more to it? Dont get me wrong, it does look good, just wondering if I am overlooking something more.

[Frezar14]

I’ve only reached 30 once and would like to try other trees but with that said I ended up using 34 in DI, 11 in PA and 12 in SC. I used the SC mantle. I found arcane tempest and magic missile spells to really be nice. I also used the ruin greater ruin feats for bosses and reapers. That did some nice damage. I just felt like the DI mantle wasn’t hitting enough and having no cooldown in the SC mantle worked well for me. My fire and force were 843 and 651. I really didn’t have any trouble in R1-2. At R4 things got challenging to say the least. Still doable but would take much longer to complete.

Still lots to try out like holy fireball that was mentioned. Also there just seems to be so much cold opportunity now so I’ll have to try that out as well.

Good luck!

[mikarddo]

My understanding is that Dripping with Magma interferes with Draconic fire dot,

Unfortunately, this is correct. I just tested it. That certainly does make using Draconic as a fire nuker much less interesting.
Hopefully a Dev will read this and fix the bug.

[Kebtid]

It might seem unorthodox, but I think DI / Shadowdancer / Primal Avatar is the optimal setup. 20% stacking cd reduction, brings your finger, pk, 9th level damage spell, etc. to 4.86 second cd. It also brings wail to 40.5 seconds cd.

You can also spam prismatic spray on a 2.35 second cd.

Personally, I think a hybrid dc/dps sorc is your best bet at the moment. This is the reason I prefer ice: I can already dominate non red name based content. I'd rather also bring some heavy burst to tackle problematic mobs with immunities.

That is not unorthodox. It is how we actually play right now.
Fire sorc single target dps was always really bad, but with the changes to edest system i consider it a suboptimal choice because the other options became that much better.
Imho the blunt part of meteors should be also punished by reflex saves so that people stop playing it all together.

[Tilomere]

Why Shadowdancer? I see Evasion, Threat Reduction, Spell cooldown reduction and some spell points. Is there more to it? Dont get me wrong, it does look good, just wondering if I am overlooking something more.

The reflex + evasion bounces most dps spells off, to preserve spell absorb charges for non-evasion spells, making your character effectively permanently immune to every spell in the game other than Creeping Doom and Niac's Cold Ray which bypass spell absorb. When you turn the difficulty up to the point that spells can 1 shot your character, you want permanent spell absorb. An R10 divine punishment, horrid wilting, or polar ray, for example, can hit for 3k+, while an R10 disintegrate can hit for 5k.

Plus when you have Draconic (CDR/wings/burst) + SD (CDR) + US/PA (renewal/Reborn+Cocoon) + EPL (CDR) + Dragonsoul (CDR), it changes your 6 second level 9 spells down to a neat 4 second CD, which makes a 4 spell rotation of Meteor, Acid Well, Mass Hold, and a fill (arcane tempest/dbf/dragon's breath/FoD/BoGW/Color Spray/Renewal).

So your gear has to handle acid (acid well, Draconic Mantle acid since magma overrides fire mantle) + force (arcane tempest + meteor) + fire (meteor)+ devotion (renewal) + spell absorb (R10)+ DCs (all types, R10) + reflex/spell saves to power evasion (to preserve spell absorb, R10) + temp mana generation to cover CDR increased expenditure (Raids), which you can get from a universal caster gear set:

Sample Gear (or just use what you have) This is a re-usable gear set, in that if you swap the stat focus around (filigree, boots, augments), maybe slaver's item if you need a different lore, spell power augments, spell DC augments, you can re-use it for any caster. Swap Staff to Summer Soltice and gloves to Deadringers for fire/light casters.

(Weapon) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Staff_...inter_Solstice (Impulse, Kinetic Lore, Profane SFM, Moon Stuffs) (Augs: Devotion and Glaciation)

(Helm) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Elder%27s_Cap Int, Spell Saves (Augs: Ins. Wis, Ins. Con)
(Neck) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Elder%27s_Focus Wiz, MRR (Augs: Hamp, Con)
Set: Artifact Crit, Legendary Crit Dmg

(Cloak) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...ight%27s_Cloak Wiz Charisma of Some type (Cha) (Augs: Prot, Illusion)
(Goggles) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...27s_Spectacles Int of some type (Ins. Int) (Augs: Nat Armor, False Life)
Set: Artifact Stats, Artifact SFM

(Armor) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:The_Legendary_Leaf_Mail Parry, PRR (Augs: Fortification)
Set with Gloves: Artifact USP

(Bracers, Artifact) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Band_of_Diani_ir%27Wynarn Wis, Q SFM (Augs: Dodge, Resistance, Deathblock)
(Gloves) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gloryborne_Gloves Sacred SFM, Devotion, Light SP, Q Resists (Aug: Master's Gift)
Primary gloves and artifact.

(Trinket) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Pale_Lavender_Ioun_Stone
First spell absorb trinket.

(Trinket) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Magestar (Augs: Greater Transmutation)
Second spell absorb trinket.

(trinket, artifact) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:The_Tw...Platinum_Piece (Augs: Dodge, Resistance, Deathblock)
(Bracers) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...ed_Castigators +Lore, Ins. Sheltering (Augs: Wisdom)
Third spell absorb trinket, which as an artifact requires we also swap out our existing wisdom artifact bracers, which also improves our defense and healing.

(gloves) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Crystalline_Gauntlets (Aug: Master's Gift + Ultimatum)
(trinket) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...of_Many_Facets +Lore, Lightning Absorb, Ins. PRR (Augs: Festive Con)
Fourth spell absorb swap, but this time gloves, we can swap trinket out at same time to pick up petrification immunity, defensive stats, and lightning (or whatever crafted) absorb for raid survival, and +Lore for stronger raid healing. Can make a few trinkets if you need for different raids.

(Ring 1) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Clouded_Dreams Ins. SFM, Exc. Potency, Exc Lore (Augs: Litany, Luck)
(Ring 2) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bound_...g_of_Lightning, Enhance SFM, Magnetism, Lightning Lore (Augs: Greater Heroism, Greater Evocation)
(Boots) https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Sunken_Slippers Qual Stat of Choice (Qual Wis), Ins. Potency, Q. Potency, Displacement (Augs: Festive Wisdom)
Place for augment set if you have one: If you get rid of prot, natural armor, and false life in Magewright set, you can move Litany, Festive Wisdom, and Greater Heroism from here to Magewright, and slot a 3 piece set augment such as Cruel Cut 15% helpless damage.

(Belt) Legendary Chains Dex, Ice Lore, Spellcraft, QCon (Augs: Globe)

Sentience: Dragonsoulx5: Cooldown Reduction, then DCs/Spell Power
Weapon
Celerity/Vigilance: +2 Wisdom
Dragonsoul: Wisdom
Dragonsoul: Universal Spellpower
Dragonsoul: Arcane Spell Failure
Dragonsoul: Electric Absorption +5% Electric Absorption
Lunar Magic: Wisdom
Lunar Magic: Universal Spellpower
Lunar Magic: Force Spellpower
Lunar Magic: Magical Resistance Rating
Any Wisdom or HAmp to even up your stat

Artifact
Celerity/Vigilance: +2 Wisdom
Dragonsoul: Wisdom
Lunar Magic: Wisdom

Call Lightning Storm Gear: LGS Dust + LGS Ooze if you want to swap stuffs.

So if you want to make an acid + fire savant, you swap staves and gloves to fire set, swap boots to charisma, swap insightful wisdom augment to charisma, swap cold lore on slavers and cold augment in staff to acid, and swap filigree to charisma.

Or you can leave the cold in and go cold + lightning single target.

For sonic bard, swap to charisma, and swap lore on slavers and augment in staff to sonic.

Can also make an all purpose wiz/alc by swapping to int instead. Swap in necro augment over transmutation for wiz. Staff has poison/negative SP and poison/void lore).

If you want to make all purpose fire + light fvs/cleric, can swap belt lore to light. Swap in conjuration or necro over transmutation.

There are more optimal ways to build for specific things, this is just a 1 size fit all way if you like bouncing between builds.

[btolson]

Draconic does 30d6+180=285, 4 ticks every 5 seconds, for 228 DPS. Scale that with 1000 Fire spellpower, its 2508 DPS

Draconic's Mantle is based off the (max) caster level of whatever spell it's attached to. So for instance if you use a low level SLA that has a MCL of 10 to proc it, your Draconic Mantle's damage will have 10 dice, not 30. Your character level is irrelevant to calculations.

Also the DoT will overwrite itself on a single target rather than stacking, so if you're applying it exactly every 5 seconds to a boss you're losing at least one tic.

All in all, it's really difficult to calculate the DPS added by Draconic Mantle in actuality, it falls short of what's hypothetically possible for lots of reasons.

[Tilomere]

Also the DoT will overwrite itself on a single target rather than stacking so if you're applying it exactly every 5 seconds to a boss you're losing at least one tic.

Ya, it seems to tick + overwrite with no ICD rather than stacking when single target? Or maybe it is just overwriting, and ticking every 2 seconds.

I think all the major elemental dots use the same channel and overwrite each other. These include:

LGS Earth/Earth Attunement?/Draconic Mantle Acid/Creeping Doom

Dripping With Magma/LGS Fire/Draconic Mantle Fire

LGS Water / Water Attunement / Draconic Mantle Cold

[mikarddo]

Ya, it seems to tick + overwrite with no ICD rather than stacking when single target? Or maybe it is just overwriting, and ticking every 2 seconds.

I think all the major elemental dots use the same channel and overwrite each other. These include:

LGS Earth/Earth Attunement?/Draconic Mantle Acid/Creeping Doom

Dripping With Magma/LGS Fire/Draconic Mantle Fire

LGS Water / Water Attunement / Draconic Mantle Cold

Thanks. I think I need to test if the direct damage from Attune the Arcane does work with Dripping with Magma or not. That is - simply not take the Inevitable enhancement so it remains direct damage rather than a dot. While much weaker that might be a way to make that somewhat coexist.

[Marshal_Lannes]

It might seem unorthodox, but I think DI / Shadowdancer / Primal Avatar is the optimal setup. 20% stacking cd reduction, brings your finger, pk, 9th level damage spell, etc. to 4.86 second cd. It also brings wail to 40.5 seconds cd.

You can also spam prismatic spray on a 2.35 second cd.

Personally, I think a hybrid dc/dps sorc is your best bet at the moment. This is the reason I prefer ice: I can already dominate non red name based content. I'd rather also bring some heavy burst to tackle problematic mobs with immunities.

Hmm, that's interesting. I'll have to explore Shadowdancer next life. Do you know if the CD reduction stacks with Draconic soul filigree bonus CD reduction?

Right now from L20-26ish the best option for me has been Shiradi/Primal - Carrion Swarm crushes low-level epic content. Then drop Shiradi for DI. My usual 3rd is low-tier US stuff for the bonus HPs. I've tried out EA but most of the tree is pointless for a sorcerer until you get up to the Holy Fireball. Lot of nonsense you have to take getting to 30 points. EA would be a better option if you only needed 20 to unlock the top tier. As it stands now, I don't like it.

[LurkingVeteran]

If shiradi crits using the matching element crit, I'm guessing MM is actually similar damage to polar ray with shiradi and cold or light focus? Meteor is probably on par or better than Iceberg. Optimal single target rotation for Water Savant might be Iceberg, Meteor, spam 1s MM. You need 20% CD reduction. Add Tempest if a long fight. Same for all Savants probably, just switch or add Thunderbolt as CL/gear allows. The rest would need to make sacrifices to focus on light SP though, and single target isn't everything.

I see no occasion or build where Meteor isn't worth slotting if you run Shiradi.

[Kelledren]

Ya, it seems to tick + overwrite with no ICD rather than stacking when single target? Or maybe it is just overwriting, and ticking every 2 seconds.

I think all the major elemental dots use the same channel and overwrite each other. These include:

LGS Earth/Earth Attunement?/Draconic Mantle Acid/Creeping Doom

Dripping With Magma/LGS Fire/Draconic Mantle Fire

LGS Water / Water Attunement / Draconic Mantle Cold

Thanks for info Tilo- I probably should check negative energy dots as well, assume it will be the same issue. Went shadow with dragon because spell power is a couple hundred higher than fire, but should again reconsider. Maybe I should just consider just going back to Shiradi mantle period. Already can’t use DI epic moment because it was preventing DA healing.

[Rockcrusher99]

Acid well isn't that good because a fire sorc doesn't have an acid immunity/resistance bypass, and because it's hard enough to max out the spellpower/crit of a single element, it's a lot harder to maximize the spellpower/crit of two. The current design massively favors single element specialists.

Although if you are tiefling AND have a few racial points, you can get the "Acid spellpower = fire spellpower" for spells enhancement. I love it. Acid well has great range and hits hard.

[krimsonrane]

I am curious what others think is the best ED setup for a fire sorc.

I really like Enerny Burst but T5 in Draconic is lackluster. Holy Fireball in EA looks much more interesting.

So, I am considering T5 in EA with 35 points (+3 dc and Holy Fireball in T5) and Draconic with 25 points (Well Spring and Enerny Burst in T4).

For the choice of mantle the one in Draconic looks to be a lot more damage but the healing aura from the one in EA does look tasty as well to add some passive self (and group) healing when shortmanning stuff without a healer.

Any suggestions and comments are most welcome. Suggestions about Shiradi in particular would need to be pretty detailed as I am unsure how to make that choice work well.

I wouldn't go fire. To many things are immune or resistant. Acid would be best. I was a fire sorc and that's the reason I'm an acid sorc now.

[mikarddo]

I wouldn't go fire. To many things are immune or resistant. Acid would be best. I was a fire sorc and that's the reason I'm an acid sorc now.

Acid Well is very nice, but what else do you cast with an acid caster?

[krimsonrane]

Acid Well is very nice, but what else do you cast with an acid caster?

First, I'm an EK and I'm not using Sheradi at all. I have many spells at my disposal but rarely get to use them as stuff is dead so quick. Acid Well is the main go to now after meteor swarm got lost behind EDF. I also use dragon breath. (Which is doubled in damage.)
I really like carrion swarm and shard storm as SLAs from primal avatar. They cost almost nothing and take out rooms full. My main ED is draconic incarnation. Every spell you have potentially becomes a one shot killer that ticks off thousands in damage. Like dancing balls, grease, or mind fog. And if they already do damage then it becomes insane damage. lol I often watch monsters walk into my dancing balls and vanish instantly.

On the very rare occasion or against particularly tough boss fights I get to use Acid Rain Tempest Storm, Incendiary cloud, and cloud-kill. In combination with a double length wellspring of power, a +30 spellpower clicky, and delighters docent, nothing lasts long.

Only on few occasions is something resistant to acid. That's when I use meteor swarm and incendiary cloud. Or I just beat them to death with my THF boomstick.

[krimsonrane]

With draconic incarnation, Fire Shield often becomes an instakill in EE/LE. They dare to touch you and take 4 ticks of 2-5k or more damage per tick. Gotta love that.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Acid Well is very nice, but what else do you cast with an acid caster?

He doesn't play high reaper so all his experiences are based on EE play where virtually any spell will work. There is no acid equivalent of DBF, Chain Lighting, or Polar Ray. Black Dragon Bolt has terrible damage for its level. Yes, Carrion Swarm is awesome, but any Tiefling can make use of it just as well as an acid caster by making Acid to Fire and using Epic Bramblecasters. Cold Savants right now look really good because they can take full advantage of the Eclipse tree. But - Undead are immune to cold and there are far more undead than whatever is immune to fire, which really isn't that much in modern DDO where devils are merely a sideshow you barely ever run into.

Any savant can work and ultimately it just depends on what spells you want to cast in your rotation and what items you have to support them.

[krimsonrane]

He doesn't play high reaper so all his experiences are based on EE play where virtually any spell will work. There is no acid equivalent of DBF, Chain Lighting, or Polar Ray. Black Dragon Bolt has terrible damage for its level. Yes, Carrion Swarm is awesome, but any Tiefling can make use of it just as well as an acid caster by making Acid to Fire and using Epic Bramblecasters. Cold Savants right now look really good because they can take full advantage of the Eclipse tree. But - Undead are immune to cold and there are far more undead than whatever is immune to fire, which really isn't that much in modern DDO where devils are merely a sideshow you barely ever run into.

Any savant can work and ultimately it just depends on what spells you want to cast in your rotation and what items you have to support them.

Ouch. Was it necessary to insult me just so you can say play whatever you like?
Also, there was no mentions of high reaper advice being sought.
Last, The question was asked of me.

[Steeme]

Ouch. Was it necessary to insult me just so you can say play whatever you like?
Also, there was no mentions of high reaper advice being sought.
Last, The question was asked of me.

Marshal was a bit blunt, but the implication from the OP is that it's high reaper play and a "Fire Sorc", ie. an actual caster and not some melee spec. Elemental form strips Fire immunity innately which is why your suggestion is completely out of place.

I have a Fire Sorc, and know my own spec, but have not contributed here because I haven't pushed him beyond R5. This thread is interesting to see the other perspectives though.

[mikarddo]

My "solution" atm is
- 11 points in Shadowdancer (Evasion w/ 81 reflex, 30% threat redux)
- 16 points in EA (Wings, +3 enchancement DC, Mass Cure, another 30% thread redux)
- 33 points in Draconic (+3 evoc DC, +3 all DC, Mantle but without the dot (not a strong option at all), 10% spell cooldown, Energy Burst, temp hp from 3rd core)
A few more epic past lives and I can add 10% spell cooldown from SD as well.

So, far from the best offensively but Mass Cure, 60% thread redux and Evasion are nice defensively. Not having Sharadi Mantle is annoying though.

Getting to T5 in EA without wanting Mantle, Epic Strike or Turn Undead was just too cumbersome so I dropped the idea of Holy Fireball for now.