ED setup for fire sorc?

[mikarddo]

I am curious what others think is the best ED setup for a fire sorc.

I really like Enerny Burst but T5 in Draconic is lackluster. Holy Fireball in EA looks much more interesting.

So, I am considering T5 in EA with 35 points (+3 dc and Holy Fireball in T5) and Draconic with 25 points (Well Spring and Enerny Burst in T4).

For the choice of mantle the one in Draconic looks to be a lot more damage but the healing aura from the one in EA does look tasty as well to add some passive self (and group) healing when shortmanning stuff without a healer.

Any suggestions and comments are most welcome. Suggestions about Shiradi in particular would need to be pretty detailed as I am unsure how to make that choice work well.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd suggest including some Primal Avatar - go heart path with spring to summer, rejuvenation cocoon, reborn in fire, spirit boon & at it's core, the combination aoe fire damage & party healing is very solid, then combine that with exalted angel for light & fire damage spells plus a healing aura... it might not have quite the degree of raw power of some alternatives but will allow you a lot more flexibility.

[Iriale]

I'd suggest including some Primal Avatar - go heart path with spring to summer, rejuvenation cocoon, reborn in fire, spirit boon & at it's core, the combination aoe fire damage & party healing is very solid, then combine that with exalted angel for light & fire damage spells plus a healing aura... it might not have quite the degree of raw power of some alternatives but will allow you a lot more flexibility.

there are not enough points for this. In fact, EA tier 5 and DI tier 4, which is a popular build for fire sorc, doesn't work if you don't have enough past lives to give you some extra ED points.

[LurkingVeteran]

Depends on what you want to do with it. Meteor and Acid Well (if you can land it) are already as good as Holy Fireball. For a pure DPS build it might be better to focus on CD reduction, you could probably get it below 4s and cycle Meteor, Well, DBF. Going to burn through a lot of sp though.

Tilo had a CD reduction build for Druid in the Druid forum that I found interesting.

[Iriale]

Depends on what you want to do with it. Meteor and Acid Well (if you can land it) are already as good as Holy Fireball. For a pure DPS build it might be better to focus on CD reduction, you could probably get it below 4s and cycle Meteor, Well, DBF. Going to burn through a lot of sp though.

Tilo had a CD reduction build for Druid in the Druid forum that I found interesting.

Acid well isn't that good because a fire sorc doesn't have an acid immunity/resistance bypass, and because it's hard enough to max out the spellpower/crit of a single element, it's a lot harder to maximize the spellpower/crit of two. The current design massively favors single element specialists.

[LurkingVeteran]

Acid well isn't that good because a fire sorc doesn't have an acid immunity/resistance bypass, and because it's hard enough to max out the spellpower/crit of a single element, it's a lot harder to maximize the spellpower/crit of two. The current design massively favors single element specialists.

Of course, but Holy Fireball has a fixed 9s cooldown and you can get Acid Well down to 4s. Tiefling can also get spell power from fire, but crit will ofc be lower. As I said, it depends on what you want. If pushing all SLAs isn't enough burst for high skulls, you might want something better than spamming Fireball every other second when Meteor and DBF are on CD. As I said, I think the big problem is going to be landing it, since it's conjuration/fort. Regardless if you can do that or not, CD reduction for Meteor/DBF shouldn't be overlooked.

[FuzzyDuck81]

there are not enough points for this. In fact, EA tier 5 and DI tier 4, which is a popular build for fire sorc, doesn't work if you don't have enough past lives to give you some extra ED points.

I was going with the idea of simply ignoring draconic & going with just exalted angel as the main destiny then those ones in primal avatar as secondary... like i said, not necessarily the most powerful combo but is great for survivability, particularly for a fire user & getting fire, light & healing spellpower together is pretty straightforward.

[Tilomere]

My understanding is that Dripping with Magma interferes with Draconic fire dot, so you need to max a second element out so you can Draconic mantle the second element. A universal caster gear set supports fire off red dragon armor, lightning off of ring, light off of gloves, devotion off of gloves, and a second element off belt lore and staff augment. Staff also has impulse/kinetic lore and negative/void lore.

[mikarddo]

My understanding is that Dripping with Magma interferes with Draconic fire dot.

Hmm, that certainly bares looking into, thanks. If so that does change things quite a bit. If someone has more knowledge on this I would love to hear about it.

[Tilomere]

I think there are ways to overwrite both the fire and cold draconic dot, but I forget how.

[mikarddo]

I think there are ways to overwrite both the fire and cold draconic dot, but I forget how.

I guess I need to do some testing when I get to 30 again on my Sorc.

The hope would be that a Dev reads this and fixes the stacking. It is troublesome when good gear and EDs do not mix as expected.

[Kebtid]

The best way to build a fire sorc is to tr to a drborn swap to ice, slap on wave and play a build that has actual single target burst.

[LurkingVeteran]

The best way to build a fire sorc is to tr to a drborn swap to ice, slap on wave and play a build that has actual single target burst.

Out of curiosity, why is Wave important for this build? I thought it was nerfed to not give MCL and only +5% crit.

Also, if you run Shiradi I wonder if Meteor doesn't do as much single target as Iceberg now.

[mr420247]

21 pts in shiradi for helpless then rest in primal n ea if u dont like drac

[Abilbo]

I am curious what others think is the best ED setup for a fire sorc.

I really like Enerny Burst but T5 in Draconic is lackluster. Holy Fireball in EA looks much more interesting.

So, I am considering T5 in EA with 35 points (+3 dc and Holy Fireball in T5) and Draconic with 25 points (Well Spring and Enerny Burst in T4).

For the choice of mantle the one in Draconic looks to be a lot more damage but the healing aura from the one in EA does look tasty as well to add some passive self (and group) healing when shortmanning stuff without a healer.

Any suggestions and comments are most welcome. Suggestions about Shiradi in particular would need to be pretty detailed as I am unsure how to make that choice work well.

To help get a better answer, you should clarify what you want your Fire Sorc to do. Is this a playing build from 20-30? Is this an R10 Nuker/DC Caster? Raids? Or a level 30 Sorc, who helps players at end game content..

I play a Level 30 Fire Sorc that hauls guild members through Legendary Saga's for exp.

My build is built for being able to self heal, and to help prevent conditions that would make me fail quests, and I do almost all content on R1.
I stand 32 poiints in Draconic, and the only 2 points im using at Tier 5 are + to Spell DC's. I stand 11 Points in US to get the immunity to knock down (ok, to most forms of knock down) the renewal, and limited curse immunity (really handy when killing Feywild Giants). Then 11 points in the EA tree using the Mantle, for the self heal.

The passive healing from EA, combined with the Renewal from the US tree seems to be enough healing on R1. US tier 3 gives you the immunity to knock down, while wearing a shield. I found over months of playing, that what killed me most times, was being knocked down.

This character is not a completionist anything. I have about 4 total ED's, and I got the heroic past lives, 3XWiz/'Sorc/FVS/Cleric for the spell DC's and bonus's to Spell Pen.

So really it boils down to what are you doing with your sorc, that will make the decision on how to spend your ED points.

[Archfae]

It might seem unorthodox, but I think DI / Shadowdancer / Primal Avatar is the optimal setup. 20% stacking cd reduction, brings your finger, pk, 9th level damage spell, etc. to 4.86 second cd. It also brings wail to 40.5 seconds cd.

You can also spam prismatic spray on a 2.35 second cd.

Personally, I think a hybrid dc/dps sorc is your best bet at the moment. This is the reason I prefer ice: I can already dominate non red name based content. I'd rather also bring some heavy burst to tackle problematic mobs with immunities.

[droid327]

Mantle wise, EA gives you a 15% chance to do 30d3+90 = 150 base Fire damage every 5 seconds. Assuming about 2 hits/second (with multi hit spells like MSwarm, but that's still generous) you'll average a proc every 8 seconds, which means it normalizes to 18.75 base DPS from the mantle proc. Say you're at 1000 Fire spellpower, that's 206 fire damage per second. Then for the Light proc, same rate, so say like 200 Light spellpower (eg USP + a Light ruby) to add another 56 dps, total is 262

Shiradi gives you a 30% chance to do 3d100+100 = 252 random base damage per cast, but there's no cooldown...so, again assuming 2 hits/second, normalizes to 151 base damage per second. Assume 100 USP since it could be any type, that's 302 DPS from the Shiradi mantle. Then you have your Light proc on top of that (or Cold if you prefer), same rate for another 151. Scales 200% with Spellpower, so the same 200 Light spellpower is worth double, and raises it to 755 DPS, plus the 302 from the random proc gives you a total of 1057 DPS

Draconic does 30d6+180=285, 4 ticks every 5 seconds, for 228 DPS. Scale that with 1000 Fire spellpower, its 2508 DPS

So we can see the damage portion of EA mantle is totally neligible. Its just a HOT. So its up to you if you need to sacrifice that much DPS to gain healing, or if Mass CMW might be enough

Draconic does the most DPS by far, but it only does it to one enemy every 5 seconds. So its better against bosses, but against trash mobs you'll be wasting a lot of it on overkill from mobs that die before it can fully tick. Shiradi is always going to give you its full benefit against every mob.

Holy Fireball is pretty nice. 2d3+18=22 average damage, that's right up there with Meteor Swarm and Acid Well, and same 9s CD so its basically just another L9 arcane AOE. Though its an SLA, so cheap metas, but no CD reduction. So I'd imagine the best split would be 32 points in EA for Fireball, then pick your Mantle between Shiradi or Draconic depending on your playstyle and how much uptime you think you'd have on the Draconic mantle DOT. Or how many DP you have - Draconic needs minimum 12 DP for Inevitable, Shiradi can get away with just 8 for Stay Good. Then I'd probably splash Primal for your third tree...min 8 points there gets you Cocoon, Spring to Summer (healing+fire AOE) and +2 CHA. That should be plenty of healing combined with CMW SLA in EA.

[mikarddo]

Mantle wise, EA gives you a 15% chance to do 30d3+90 = 150 base Fire damage every 5 seconds. Assuming about 2 hits/second (with multi hit spells like MSwarm, but that's still generous) you'll average a proc every 8 seconds, which means it normalizes to 18.75 base DPS from the mantle proc. Say you're at 1000 Fire spellpower, that's 206 fire damage per second. Then for the Light proc, same rate, so say like 200 Light spellpower (eg USP + a Light ruby) to add another 56 dps, total is 262

Shiradi gives you a 30% chance to do 3d100+100 = 252 random base damage per cast, but there's no cooldown...so, again assuming 2 hits/second, normalizes to 151 base damage per second. Assume 100 USP since it could be any type, that's 302 DPS from the Shiradi mantle. Then you have your Light proc on top of that (or Cold if you prefer), same rate for another 151. Scales 200% with Spellpower, so the same 200 Light spellpower is worth double, and raises it to 755 DPS, plus the 302 from the random proc gives you a total of 1057 DPS

Draconic does 30d6+180=285, 4 ticks every 5 seconds, for 228 DPS. Scale that with 1000 Fire spellpower, its 2508 DPS

Thanks for the doing the math. I am unsure why you only apply 100 usp though on average for the Shiradi procs. If I look at the spell power for my (atm) 28 sorc the various spell powers range from 236 (usp), 281 (sonic), 294 (cold) to 503 (light), 505 (force) and 691 (fire). So an average of 300 would seem very conservative yet you appear to only go with 100. Also, the 1000 fire spell power seems a bit higher than what I am getting at cap.

Unless I am overlooking something, which isnt unlikely, this means that Shiradi will be relatively significantly better than your calcs show. On the other hand Shiradi has the disadvantage of not breaking immunities or even of healing the mobs which cannot be ignored in a comparison.

[Archfae]

Thanks for the doing the math. I am unsure why you only apply 100 usp though on average for the Shiradi procs. If I look at the spell power for my (atm) 28 sorc the various spell powers range from 236 (usp), 281 (sonic), 294 (cold) to 503 (light), 505 (force) and 691 (fire). So an average of 300 would seem very conservative yet you appear to only go with 100. Also, the 1000 fire spell power seems a bit higher than what I am getting at cap.

Unless I am overlooking something, which isnt unlikely, this means that Shiradi will be relatively significantly better than your calcs show. On the other hand Shiradi has the disadvantage of not breaking immunities or even of healing the mobs which cannot be ignored in a comparison.

The 4 ticks per 5 seconds is also incorrect for draconic. It ticks about once every 2 seconds. Instead of .8 multi, it should be a .5, which makes shiradi much much better. The main benefit to draconic is being able to use single target spells and still get the full effect of your mantle. Meteor swarm avoids this, but your other high level spells don't.

You also probably should be running in ice savant if you are going shiradi imo.

If all you care about is damage, I think shiradi is better. But if you want more than damage, draconic / shadowdancer is almost certainly the way to go.

[mikarddo]

Atleast Shiradi looks like a clear winner for levels 20-25 before the DI mantle gets the -10% cooldown for spells. Being able to get most of the Shiradi mantle power from level 20 does look very strong. I will have to try that next time I am 20 on the sorc.