Heal Scroll Efficiency

[draven1]

When other spell-based healing spells can do 2000+ non-crit healing, healing scrolls do 1/10 of it, 200ish healing.

Many toons have 4000+ hp, some even have 8000+ hp, 200ish healing is not enough at all.

Can you add some new non-spell-based healing methods? Or you can raise healing scrolls efficiency significantly.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Considering there is a significant cast time on a heal scroll, and the benefits were based on a paradigm that existed a decade ago, yeah I think it should be increased. The heal scroll enhancement tree benefits should be tripled. Now I get it, Reaper self-healing penalty, but there are so many ED workarounds now that this should really be looked at.

[droid327]

If there was pocket healing available for no opportunity cost that basically let any class have adequate self-healing...then why would anyone roll a self-healing class?

You have hires in Heroic and Renewal/Cocoon in Epic, that's already plenty of build-agnostic healing...

[Weemadarthur]

Considering there is a significant cast time on a heal scroll, and the benefits were based on a paradigm that existed a decade ago, yeah I think it should be increased. The heal scroll enhancement tree benefits should be tripled. Now I get it, Reaper self-healing penalty, but there are so many ED workarounds now that this should really be looked at.

Ok this is a bit of a weird one because I can see exactly where your coming from with this argument. However although I can follow your logic and agree with the essence of your conclusion I am caught kind of in between you and Droid as I almost agree with both points. I kind of feel that outside of combat healing takes waaaaaay too long but inside combat what we have is too good already.

I kind of feel that we should be able to scroll use something like Unyielding Sovereignty but it should only be usable when no mobs are near. If it was given a casting time a little longer than Mass Heal and was interrupted if a mob came into proximity I think it would only be a viable option for healing out of combat so wouldn't be overly game breaking. It would stop fights from becoming trivial but would enable high hp toons to heal up between battles a lot quicker.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I kind of feel that we should be able to scroll use something like Unyielding Sovereignty but it should only be usable when no mobs are near. If it was given a casting time a little longer than Mass Heal and was interrupted if a mob came into proximity I think it would only be a viable option for healing out of combat so wouldn't be overly game breaking. It would stop fights from becoming trivial but would enable high hp toons to heal up between battles a lot quicker.

I'm thinking something that functions like monk's wholeness of body so it has a long duration that does some solid healing over time while it's active, but maybe base it off using healing or repair kits as appropriate, which are basically unnecessary now with how the game's changed since launch. Figuring out the scaling for it would be trickier, but something like heal/repair skill combined with character level (and then amp on top) would probably work okay & there could be a "battlefield medic" or similar feat that boosts it higher.

[Wizard1406]

If there was pocket healing available for no opportunity cost that basically let any class have adequate self-healing...then why would anyone roll a self-healing class?

You have hires in Heroic and Renewal/Cocoon in Epic, that's already plenty of build-agnostic healing...

This would be all fine if hirelings weren't so buggy and weak and the population so low that most of the time you don't have a player with native heals in your heroic group, if any party member at all.

I agree, scroll healing is lackluster with reaper now.

And potions were adequate when the maximum level was lvl 10 and we had like 200 (?) total HP. There are some better potions but they come with heavy drawbacks or are from rare consumables, with a long cooldown or in the DDO shop only.

For scrolls there is NOTHING better than heal scroll.

I think they should make reaper self heal penalty not apply out of combat (I'm pretty sure the game can already recognize being out of combat, music changes and all) and add some better potions, like potion of critical healing, potion of critical healing (lvl 20) etc. Possibly heal scroll (level 20) too.


And about nobody playing self-healing classes... Personally I think they are good on their own and I would play them, even if everyone had self-healing. See epics, everyone can get some healing, but still caster cleric/druid/fvs/bard... are good and fun to play.

[LurkingVeteran]

The main reason for scaling scrolls/wands and UMD imo would be that these are features supported by the game (e.g. enhancements, Half Elf, certain Artificer/Warlock class features), but they just doesn't scale into epics.

The scroll/wand enhancement could scale beyond low heroics. It's in a weird place now even if it should never be on parity with the casted versions. About half of normal spell power would make sense. So add another stacking 100% in epics (would become x1.75->x2.75, a ~60% increase).

It's difficult to balance UMD since everybody can get some at L30, but one could also start selling (expensive) scrolls with higher caster. You wouldn't be able to use the higher scrolls anyway without some investment. E.g. a caster level 15 and 20 Heal scrolls. I assume that Heal in epics now normally casts at MCL 15+5= 20. This could double Heal scroll output but take a DC of 58. Clerics/FvS could ofc scroll with 100% success rate as expected.

[boredGamer]

When other spell-based healing spells can do 2000+ non-crit healing, healing scrolls do 1/10 of it, 200ish healing.

Many toons have 4000+ hp, some even have 8000+ hp, 200ish healing is not enough at all.

Can you add some new non-spell-based healing methods? Or you can raise healing scrolls efficiency significantly.

Meh , heal scrolls are unnecessary, haven’t used one in years .

If you can roll an 8k hp character you can learn how to keep it alive .

[Wizard1406]

Meh , heal scrolls are unnecessary, haven’t used one in years .

If you can roll an 8k hp character you can learn how to keep it alive .

So you never leveled up a non-divine in years?

Because the heal problems are mostly during leveling and in reaper difficulty, especially before lvl 20 (at cap you can get more heal amp and spellpower and use ED abilities to heal, and to a lesser degree 20/23-29 too)

[boredGamer]

So you never leveled up a non-divine in years?

Because the heal problems are mostly during leveling and in reaper difficulty, especially before lvl 20 (at cap you can get more heal amp and spellpower and use ED abilities to heal, and to a lesser degree 20/23-29 too)

There are generally ways to incorporate healing into any build . Why should we remove that trade off because “you don’t want to ?”

Trade offs are good, build for how you want your character to play.

[Enoach]

So you never leveled up a non-divine in years?

Because the heal problems are mostly during leveling and in reaper difficulty, especially before lvl 20 (at cap you can get more heal amp and spellpower and use ED abilities to heal, and to a lesser degree 20/23-29 too)

How many characters have more than 1k HP sub level 20?

I believe one of the points of Reaper to reduced self-healing, was to dampen players self-healing abilities to increase the risk of death.

A long-time advantage of scrolls was that it actually helped with the resource usage in questing and especially raiding. Over the years this has actually become less of an issue, even though I have still seen a 7k Spell point characters drop all their sp in 2ish minutes and had nothing to show for it . Even in heroics we have so many options to heal and mitigate damage that it is rare that we need extra resources, outside of maybe needing to stop at every other shrine.

If the power of scroll healing was improved, it may be needed that limits such as how many to a stack would also need to be adjusted to avoid making scrolls 'To good'. Maybe a stack size similar to Silver Flame Potions.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I kind of feel that outside of combat healing takes waaaaaay too long but inside combat what we have is too good already.

Yes, I should have qualified my statement. I'm not saying Heal scrolls should be an instaheal clickie if you have the UMD, but if you're outside of combat you shouldn't be healing for 45 points a cast.

Meh , heal scrolls are unnecessary, haven’t used one in years .

If you can roll an 8k hp character you can learn how to keep it alive .

That's because someone in your static group is healing you.

[Weemadarthur]

That's because someone in your static group is healing you.

That's not strictly speaking true. Even my Barb that has over 6k hp can manage to be self sustaining solo on up to R4 quite easily (after that it becomes a bit more challenging but still not impossible). There are ways and builds that can make up for the shortcomings of reaper but I still wouldn't object to having a quicker option to heal up between fights.

[Wizard1406]

There are generally ways to incorporate healing into any build . Why should we remove that trade off because “you don’t want to ?”

Trade offs are good, build for how you want your character to play.

Maybe if your character has a ton of extra DPS/defenses from PL already, but I found anything lower than cure critical, with enough Spellpower and Spellpoints, too low for sustain in higher heroics - even lay on hands / healing hands charges run out and cure serious and lower doesn't really cut it either.

That or warlock temporary HP. Haven't played Barbarian enough to comment whether their healing/ temp HP keeps up in reaper, even if you don't have the highest gear/stats yet.


Anyway, I don't want to level a character without high self healing any time soon, relying on hirelings or scrolls is a pain. Good thing I'm mostly interested in playing cleric/FVS/druid/bard/alchemist/arti next anyway.

Already got my sorcerer pastlives, super fun class , but no heroic healing except scrolls was annoying (You don't want to be WF if going into epics and legendary)

[Standal]

That's not strictly speaking true. Even my Barb that has over 6k hp can manage to be self sustaining solo on up to R4 quite easily (after that it becomes a bit more challenging but still not impossible). There are ways and builds that can make up for the shortcomings of reaper but I still wouldn't object to having a quicker option to heal up between fights.

The quick option is and always has been hirelings. Park, summon, heal. No penalty healing as long as you survive the fight and can find a safe place to park them. Even if you can't, raise dead is pretty easy to get.

[Wizard1406]

The quick option is and always has been hirelings. Park, summon, heal. No penalty healing as long as you survive the fight and can find a safe place to park them. Even if you can't, raise dead is pretty easy to get.

It's ok, but there is a long cooldown after teleporting before they heal and their AI is often bugged so sometimes they don't heal unless you swap aggressive / passive multiple time.

If you calculate all the healing breaks it slows you down quite a lot.

Once again, if we actually had functional hirelings, it wouldn't be a problem. I don't think nowadays the argument "who would invite a divine to a party if there are hirelings" doesn't count anymore..... players can fulfill multiple roles easily now with the better enhancements and gear, so damage / CC AND healing. Same for rogue BTW, they are not just trap monkeys, but DPS as well.

[dredre9987]

Maybe just stop soloing?

[droid327]

It's ok, but there is a long cooldown after teleporting before they heal and their AI is often bugged so sometimes they don't heal unless you swap aggressive / passive multiple time.

If you calculate all the healing breaks it slows you down quite a lot.

Once again, if we actually had functional hirelings, it wouldn't be a problem. I don't think nowadays the argument "who would invite a divine to a party if there are hirelings" doesn't count anymore..... players can fulfill multiple roles easily now with the better enhancements and gear, so damage / CC AND healing. Same for rogue BTW, they are not just trap monkeys, but DPS as well.

Yes, derpy hirelings is absolutely an anchorchain on the game, and something that stands to be improved

However, that being said, current park-and-call hirelings is merely a tradeoff. Its full self healing, faster and more robust than Heal scrolling alone. The fact that its out of combat only and requires some downtime, IMO, is merely a balanced opportunity cost for adding full heals to any build for the price of a few plat.

[Wizard1406]

Maybe just stop soloing?

I do group whenever possible, more fun than soloing anyway :-) But I'm on EU time. During the day my time, there are usually few people on. Even at times when there are more people on, sometimes you get unlucky and no groups or no people joining.

But like droid said, once you get strong enough to survive fights, hireling call between fights is an OK compromise.

[draven1]

Maybe just stop soloing?

Main healer can be dead or need to be healed by other ppl on high reaper.
When main healer is dead and on rez timer, the rest of group should keep a tank alive.

Usually 200ish healing is so insufficient to handle those situations.