U53 Raid Loot:

[Carpone]

DDO is NOT a "group driven game"

It's a group driven game in every sense of the phrase. The game is designed fundamentally around grouping. It has anti-soloing/anti-short man scaling and mechanics. You may choose to not group, but you're ignoring a fundamental aspect of the game design doing so.

[Shagarot]

Yep, I was deafened by Lurea's shriek of "OMG OMG OMG Z, I WANT THIS, OMG OMG OMG!!!!" lol

Right...your character's shrieks...

Her character is Zavina and she is leader of our guild while Lurea is co-leader and yes, she does happy shrieks on many occasions dealing massive sonic dmg to everyone that's in voice chat with her at the time. If I ever go deaf before my 40'ties it's because of her...

[evaldor]

You dont want people to be forced to raid either, I might add, because people who are only there to get their raid-gated gear and go back to soloing are probably going to be an albatross on your party anyway.

There are plenty of players who are happy to teach and support inexperienced players. I've done this myself on many occasions. I would encourage you to explore your servers resources (discord servers, raiding guilds/groups) and to help build the game community further.

As for raids and their loot, there's multiple difficulties and they can all be shortmanned (if not solo'd outright) with a bit of preparation and skill. Besides, with 11 other people in your 'raid group' that's 11 more chances that what you want gets pulled and potentially passed. Passing raid loot isn't some mysterious phenomena that never occurs.

[evaldor]

It's a group driven game in every sense of the phrase. The game is designed fundamentally around grouping. It has anti-soloing/anti-short man scaling and mechanics. You may choose to not group, but you're ignoring a fundamental aspect of the game design doing so.

I approve this message.

[Kelledren]

I wish the new items had feywild sets. The non-raid artifacts and "A Memento of Mori" would be excellent Autumn set items. And Pomura's Memento would be a welcome addition for either Winter or Autumn.

Yes this would be extremely welcomed. Anyone using full Fey sets are probably slotting at least one item that is not really helpful to them. Even if it is one more item for each season that would be just about right for trying to hit 7 pieces. That Mori ring would be perfect for healers/light casters which have trouble gearing full Autumn.

Thanks-

[droid327]

It's a group driven game in every sense of the phrase. The game is designed fundamentally around grouping. It has anti-soloing/anti-short man scaling and mechanics. You may choose to not group, but you're ignoring a fundamental aspect of the game design doing so.

There are plenty of players who are happy to teach and support inexperienced players. I've done this myself on many occasions. I would encourage you to explore your servers resources (discord servers, raiding guilds/groups) and to help build the game community further.

As for raids and their loot, there's multiple difficulties and they can all be shortmanned (if not solo'd outright) with a bit of preparation and skill. Besides, with 11 other people in your 'raid group' that's 11 more chances that what you want gets pulled and potentially passed. Passing raid loot isn't some mysterious phenomena that never occurs.

Its just not though. Aside from raids themselves, everything in the game is accessible to soloists. And it has mechanics meant to facilitate balanced soloing too. The game in no way is designed to MAKE you group. And that's how it should be.

I will fight for the rights of soloists to continue to not be treated like second-class citizens of the game. You arent the first elitist raiders to act like your way is the only right way, you wont be the last, but you're wrong and you need to be told you're wrong lest the devs start to only listen to people like you...

Soloing is supported and represents a complete and valid way to enjoy the game. Its not merely unrealized raiding

If you're just scared to solo, I'll be happy to teach you and help you become better at the game :P

[philoe]

Its just not though. Aside from raids themselves, everything in the game is accessible to soloists. And it has mechanics meant to facilitate balanced soloing too. The game in no way is designed to MAKE you group. And that's how it should be.

I will fight for the rights of soloists to continue to not be treated like second-class citizens of the game. You arent the first elitist raiders to act like your way is the only right way, you wont be the last, but you're wrong and you need to be told you're wrong lest the devs start to only listen to people like you...

Soloing is supported and represents a complete and valid way to enjoy the game. Its not merely unrealized raiding

If you're just scared to solo, I'll be happy to teach you and help you become better at the game :P

I think possible that both points of view are valid...There are many, myself included, that spend their time in game between raiding/solo/grouping, with not one getting any more time than the other. And Droid, easy on the "poor pitiful me, i'm the working man not elitist..I fight for everybody"...Its clear when a person uses this type of thought process during a discussion, they are trying to sway public opinion based on feelings and not facts..You scream loud enough, enough times, at enough people, they may listen right?

[mikarddo]

Man I'm getting really tired of seeing this...

DEVS - DDO IS NOT A RAID-OBLIGATE GAME

DO NOT MAKE DDO A RAID-OBLIGATE GAME. That would be a very big step backwards and a mistake.

What I'm talking about is core-function items getting locked behind the raid gate. In this case, the Arcane dice augments. We saw it before with Set augments, and now the trend is continuing.

These are not things that should be prohibited to those who dont raid. There's no reason for it. I'm fine with raid-locked gear including upgrades from quest gear, just incrementally better. Or things that you only really need if you're raiding. What I'm not fine with is items that exist ONLY as raid gear, which would also be highly useful for non-raid play. Things for which there is no quest-gear version or alternative.

These are the sort of augments that should be chest-drop and unbound (and therefore Rubies so they'll fit in non-raid weapons). And the new augments that are chest-drop should be on the Rem vendor, because they're even more basic than these. But there needs to be a non-quest pathway (again, probably Rems) to acquire some of this basic-function raid loot

I think its is fine that raids actually have some unique drops that are only gained through raids. Not something that is required but something that is above and beyond.

Thus I disagree fully with your view as I consider these new drops to be exactly what raids should have. Not at all core but unique and nice extras.

[Oxarhamar]

Its just not though. Aside from raids themselves, everything in the game is accessible to soloists. And it has mechanics meant to facilitate balanced soloing too. The game in no way is designed to MAKE you group. And that's how it should be.

I will fight for the rights of soloists to continue to not be treated like second-class citizens of the game. You arent the first elitist raiders to act like your way is the only right way, you wont be the last, but you're wrong and you need to be told you're wrong lest the devs start to only listen to people like you...

Soloing is supported and represents a complete and valid way to enjoy the game. Its not merely unrealized raiding

If you're just scared to solo, I'll be happy to teach you and help you become better at the game :P

You don't have to raid if you want to solo thats fine that is your chosen

Raids are designed for grouping you don't have to raid if you don't want to group

There is a social panel for a reason you don't have to use it

[droid327]

I think possible that both points of view are valid...There are many, myself included, that spend their time in game between raiding/solo/grouping, with not one getting any more time than the other. And Droid, easy on the "poor pitiful me, i'm the working man not elitist..I fight for everybody"...Its clear when a person uses this type of thought process during a discussion, they are trying to sway public opinion based on feelings and not facts..You scream loud enough, enough times, at enough people, they may listen right?

Of course...pathos, logos, and ethos are all part of a convincing argument. Its easy for people to forget soloists, because by nature they dont often speak up for themselves, so when they do they need to speak extra loud I've been in games that have gradually let their solo game atrophy in the name of group-obligate content, I just dont want to see that happen here too.

I think its is fine that raids actually have some unique drops that are only gained through raids. Not something that is required but something that is above and beyond.

Thus I disagree fully with your view as I consider these new drops to be exactly what raids should have. Not at all core but unique and nice extras.

Taken individually, ok sure...but like I said in the first post, I just dont want to see this become a pattern, because at some point all those "nice extras" will add up to "you're expected to be this strong to be balanced for this new content"

[rabidfox]

Two things..

1) Level 7 weapon - sentience..

I'd so love it if all named items regardless of level could hold sentient jewels (but not be able slot any filigrees on low level gear) just so I could use the various voices on gear.

[mr420247]

Love the kama more that i see it but dump the useless keen for 6 evoc dcs and the useless purple slot for 1 orange slot please

been forever since we had 1 good kama we could ever sw if ever this could be the first

7 long years just to dump one useless club we all hate please

[Gljosh]

I'd so love it if all named items regardless of level could hold sentient jewels (but not be able slot any filigrees on low level gear) just so I could use the various voices on gear.

'Twould be sweet!

[Arkat]

Love the kama more that i see it but dump the useless keen for 6 evoc dcs and the useless purple slot for 1 orange slot please

been forever since we had 1 good kama we could ever sw if ever this could be the first

7 long years just to dump one useless club we all hate please

I'll bet the two kamas are meant to be used as a set. Maybe for an EK in GMoF ED? Or perhaps a Monk in Henshin Mystic? LOTS of fire damage looks to be the goal.

If they're to be a set, I wonder what the set bonus will be?

[PublicEnemy]

Taken individually, ok sure...but like I said in the first post, I just dont want to see this become a pattern, because at some point all those "nice extras" will add up to "you're expected to be this strong to be balanced for this new content"

Im all for "to each their own" but isnt there something a bit paradoxal about defending a "solo only" playstyle by saying that you'll be "expected to be this strong..." by whom?

Arent you specifically supposed to NOT care about power requirements, but your owns, when you're soloing most of the time?

And unless you're trying to solo R10...Ravenloft (non raid) gear was more than enough to solo Sharn or the Feywilds...and even more so now that they stopped taking the huge power creep route...

And one last thing : Items will always come second to knowledge and player's build/playstyle.

[Saekee]

So this is a hunt-themed raid snip

heh half the weapons are farming implements, maybe a farming-theme raid lol

[noinfo]

If you're just scared to solo, I'll be happy to teach you and help you become better at the game :P

Most difficulties in this game are not hard to solo due to constant dumbing down of difficulty, scaling for example. This is how we ended up with reaper. It is nothing to be scared of but then neither is raiding. I go where the loot is or the rxp. The devs willingness to put in optionals that have an extra chest has been great of late and for those people who don't like to raid means you will get your loot faster to get back to the part of the game you enjoy.

[droid327]

Im all for "to each their own" but isnt there something a bit paradoxal about defending a "solo only" playstyle by saying that you'll be "expected to be this strong..." by whom?

By the devs, when they balance new solo content. PvE power creep in this game is a well-documented issue for years, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

[Stravix]

Kinda sad we are getting another raid HAxe.

Loving the fact that we got a heavy pick, and was hopeful to see a light pick added so we can have an endgame item for that slot as well.

[FengXian]

I'm not saying raid items should only be numerical upgrades...I'm just saying raid items should not give unique bonuses to core functions of builds. I consider EK dice etc. to be a core function of EK etc. builds.

And I'd be more willing to chalk this one up to "we were fine without it before" if DDO hasnt had such a proven track record of power creep and every piece of new content being balanced for a slightly higher power point...if I'm vociferous about it now its only because I've seen meta builds get left way behind by power creep before, and I dont want to see that happen to "soloists" writ large.



Its not a question of competence at all, and shame on you for couching it in such elitist terms. Its a question of playstyle and personal preference. Raids are there for those who like to raid, and that's fine. Soloing is also there for those who like to solo. And DDO has always supported both with equal value, and thats what I'm defending here. DDO is NOT a "group driven game", its a game that supports grouping. If grouping drives your gameplay, that's AOK, but it doesnt drive mine nor a lot of other players.

Elevating raiding to "the endgame everyone should be expected to do" is no different than elevating solo and forcing groupers to solo for the best gear. You'd complain if you were forced to solo, and I likewise dont want to be forced to raid. You dont want people to be forced to raid either, I might add, because people who are only there to get their raid-gated gear and go back to soloing are probably going to be an albatross on your party anyway.

I can agree with the premise of not locking core functions behind raids, but I don't think this is the case.

I would be much more upset if a core function like Manyshot charges (up to, say, +3, so +100%) were locked behind a P2P mini-expansion or something.

But in this case I don't think it's an issue, unless I'm severely underestimating the impact of that +1 to dice. Besides raiding is fun (subjectively) and brings people together (objectively). On Cannith there are pug raids every day.