Shadowdancer just feels... bad if you're a Rogue.

[Gloomfall]

Pretty much as the title reads. With the recent changes to the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny the Destiny Mantle and other abilities just feel incredibly underwhelming. The fact that Meld into Darkness is mutually exclusive with Dark Imbuement, and that its value is so incredibly low is a travesty. Stealth and Skill based gameplay doesn't really feel enhanced much if at all by the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny.

With that said, the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny does feel absolutely amazing as an Illusionist DC based caster. Weird is an extremely useful spell and will continue to be for a long time. Better movement speed while casting is also incredibly valuable. Other than this though there is no other value at the top of the Destiny or in the Destiny Mantle for Rogues or similar specialist based characters. Ranged characters will likely be MUCH better served by going into Shiradi Champion while Melee based characters will be much better served by going into Grandmaster of Flowers, or if they're focusing around tactics to make targets helpless they can focus on something like Fury of the Wild or Legendary Dreadnaught.

There were many feedback submissions in the Lamannia News & Discussion forum for how to improve this destiny and I really hope that they don't get forgotten. I also hope that this isn't the final state of this Destiny for the foreseeable future.

Please Lynnabel or any other members of the Design team, work with us to improve this destiny and bring better functionality and balance to the other destinies that had issues.

Thanks!

[Gloomfall]

So.. I got bored and wrote up my proposed changes to the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny inspired heavily by Lynnabel's recent rework to the tree under Update 51.

If I had COMPLETE freedom with the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny this is how I would change it.


Core 1 (level 20): Shadow Training: You gain the Magical Training feat if you didn't have it already. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +1 Sneak Attack Dice, 50 Spellpoints, and 5 Force Spellpower and 5 Universal Spellpower.

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie and Shadow Walk clickie. 2m cooldown for each ability.

Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically by rolling a 1.

Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Deceptive: +2/4/6 Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Feint feat your attacks gain the effects of Improved Deception.
• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock, and Saves vs Traps. Rank 3: If you have the Nimble Fingers Feat you can detect traps and search from 50% further away. (Stackable with Mechanic's Improved Detection Enhancement)

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Dance in the Dark: +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice and 2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Rank 3: 50% Cooldown Reduction for Execute (Assassin Rogue Enhancement)
• Sleight of Hand: +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% (Stacking) damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. Rank 3: You gain the Quickdraw Feat and a 15% Insight Bonus to your odds of retaining a copy of a scroll when using it.
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. Grants +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed, 25% Concealment Bonus, 25% Insight Bonus to Sneak Speed, 25% Insight Bonus to Cast Run Speed, and grants ghost touch on all attacks.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Shadowstrike (melee or ranged): Epic Strike: +5W, +3 Threat and Mult. Enemy must make a fort save vs (20 + highest ability score + assassinate) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
  • Nightmare Lance (spell): Epic Strike: Illusion Spell, deals 1d6+6 Force damage per caster level. Enemies must make a will save vs (20 + highest ability score + illusion bonuses + fear bonuses) or be cursed with Shadow Loss. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
    
    • Shadow Loss. You no longer cast a shadow. In addition, you have -10 PRR, MRR, and Spell Resistance.
• Lithe: Passive Bonus: +2/4/6 reflex saves, AC, and light armor Max Dex Bonus. Rank 3: 50% Reduction in Cooldown for Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Depths of Darkness: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: +25% Incorporeality, +50% Insight Bonus to Sneak Speed, when tumbling you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so, and while sneaking you gain the effect of Invisibility.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Dark Imbuement: You gain 10% Uncapped Dodge and your Epic Strike now imbues your weapons with Evil energies for 10s: You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a vorpal strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds.
  • Paranoia: You gain 10% Uncapped Dodge and your Epic Strike now imbues your spells with Evil energies for 10s: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
• Grim Precision: +1/2/3 Spell Penetration, and you bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge.
• Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs. Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Shadowcaster: -10% Spell Cooldowns. Immunity to Energy Drain.
  • Shadowstriker: +5% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Immunity to Energy Drain.

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness.
• From the Shadows: Active: Dissolve into shadows, before appearing some distance in front of you. This grants you the buffs from your Shadowdancer Epic Strike if you have them trained.
• Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer mantle now grants you +5/10/15% helplessness damage.
• Bring Darkness: When you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, applying a stack of Darkness. If you have the feat First Blood, it now triggers off of your harmful spellcasts, and when it procs, it also applies a stack of darkness.
  
  • Darkness: You are no longer immune to Sneak Attacks. -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 5 stacks.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Long Shadows: Your Dark Imbuement Epic Strike upgrade now increases your melee range and your ranged sneak attack and point blank range and now grants 15% Uncapped Dodge. When enemies miss you in combat while Dark Imbuement is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
  • Shadowed Insight: Paranoia now reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each and now grants 15% Uncapped Dodge. When enemies miss you in combat while Dark Imbuement is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You gain +50% Concealment, +75% Insight Bonus to Sneak Speed, +20 Hide and Move Silently, float as if you had feather fall, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing Monsters (like Dragons or Reapers). Additionally, when exiting stealth you gain an Improved Invisibility effect with a duration of 6 seconds, this can only happen once every 30 seconds.
• Just a Taste: +1 mult on 19-20 with bows, thrown, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
  • Consumed by Shadows: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes) Activate to create a field around you for 10 seconds. Every 2 seconds the aura causes one nearby corporeal enemy to be devoured by its own shadow and die (Fort DC 10 + Character Level + Highest of Int/Wis/Cha + Assassination Bonuses), or take 80-120 damage on a successful save. You are free to perform other actions while the aura is active.
• Greater Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs Rank 3: +10 Force/Universal Spellpower.
• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 5d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects your Epic Strikes as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies miss you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

[Gloomfall]

With my proposed changes, here is what would change and why I suggest changing it.

1. First and probably the most significant change important to me. Meld into Darkness is not mutually exclusive with Dark Imbuement or Paranoia. This is something that should be baked into each of the Shadowdancer Epic Strike upgrade options as it's such a core component of what Shadowdancer aims to be. This makes the Epic Strike upgrades much more worthwhile to pick up. Additionally, I added an effect to Long Shadows that extends the Sneak Attack / Point Blank Range of Ranged Weapon while it's in effect.

2. Invisibility while Stealthed added to Depths of Darkness. This is important to me as it would further empower Stealth and Solo gameplay for Shadowdancers, without causing excessive imbalance. This is true for several factors, the most prominent one being that some enemies do have True Seeing or See Invisibility, effectively ignoring this effect. This is also a spell available from Potions, Scrolls, Wands, and even Reusable Items that are charged each day/rest. Adding Invisibility on Stealth simply grants into the fantasy that Shadowdancer has in the Tabletop versions of the game in the fact that it can hide even while being observed by hiding inside of nearby shadows.

3. Assassination DC rolled into Dance in the Dark. This should definitely not have been split off onto its own enhancement as it's an extremely situational enhancement. I do however get the design goal that seemed to be in place for Epic Destinies of having 5 distinct options for each tier, and nothing else seemed to fit. With this change however, it serves several purposes. It makes room for the "Deceptive" enhancement that I added, and it beefs up the Enhancement to make it more attractive to Assassins. This was done by simply merging the Assassination DC into Dance in the Dark and adding a Rank 3 bonus of reducing the cooldown for the Assassinate action by 50%. This brings the Assassin's Assassinate from a 12 second cooldown to a 6 second cooldown making it much more viable at higher levels. If this is too powerful for a Tier 2 ability then it can be swapped with Grim Precision pretty easily in Tier 3.

4. Deceptive enhancement added to Tier 1. This adds Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate as well as makes use of the Improved Feint feat encouraging people to pick it up with the Rank 3 bonus giving Improved Deception to your attacks. This would be a very flavorful and fairly useful ability for Shadowdancer and I would love to see it.

5. There were some tweaks I made to the Insight Bonus to Sneak Speed on Shadowform, Depths of Darkness, and Improved Shadowform. I proposed scaling it from 25%->75% eventually. When this is full and stacks with Deepwood Stalker, Ninja, or Assassin's Sneak Speed enhancements we should be able to move at the same speed both in and out of stealth. Which in my opinion is an extremely important thing for Shadowdancer.

6. I adjusted the points that Shadowdancer gains Incorporeality and Concealment on their Mantle to spread it out a bit and increased the top end Concealment to 50% so it's on par with Displacement, which would save casters from needing to cast it and allow other Avoidance style characters to play in higher end content. This may seem incredibly powerful but with the debuffs that enemies in higher difficulty content apply having 25% Concealment, 25% Incorporeality, and even with an additional 15% uncapped dodge from the Epic Strike we're going to be hit MUCH more than is healthy for us.

7. I added an effect to the Rank 3 of Technician that I think is much more thematic for Shadowdancer's Technician enhancement and the Nimble Fingers feat. This would be a very helpful boon to trappers in general and a very important reason to dip into Shadowdancer for specialist characters

8. I added a Rank 3 Bonus to Sleight of Hand that grants the Quick Draw feat to better encourage casting on the move as well as switching between Scrolls/Wands and Weapons. It also has an effect to potentially preserve Scrolls when using them. Gnomes with this bonus (Especially since Gnomes are great Illusionists) would have a stacking bonus from their Tier 5 Racial Enhancement bringing the chance to a total of 30%. This is to make the playstyle of mobile casters and using items to cast spells much more pleasant when it's a core mechanic of the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny.

9. I added Saves vs Traps to Lithe as well as a Rank 3 Effect to reduce the Cooldown of Uncanny Dodge / Improved Uncanny Dodge by 50%. This would encourage Barbarians and Rogues to pick up Shadowdancer for this additional defense.

10. I added a Rank 3 bonus to Shadowdancer Spell Focus to add a bonus +5 to Force/Universal Spellpower. Just to give Spellcasters a bit more damage on their abilities, since they can't proc sneak attack damage as often and they need a solid alternative to Shiradi Champion.

11. I adjusted the "From the Shadows" action to be usable without being in Stealth. This should be usable similarly to each of the other Rush abilities. Right now the limitations on it are incredibly restrictive and it just feels weird.

12. Updated "Bring Darkness" to apply up to 5 stacks of the Darkness debuff. This will cause a slightly higher debuff as well as have the effects last for a total of one minute when you build up 5 stacks on the target. I did this because Sneak Attack is a really important function of Shadowdancer and the characters that would take it. This would allow a little bit better reliability of using it.

13. Improved Shadowform was adjusted to include the previously cut "Tremorsense" stealth effect that was originally intended on Lamannia to allow Stealth to work against Oozes and Spiders. Also added an "Improved Invisibility" effect upon exiting stealth that lasts for 6 seconds and can only happen once every 30 seconds. This is to make up for the loss of the "Improved Invisibility" enhancement that Shadowdancer used to have, and honestly was a really fun part of playing it.

14. Improved Shadowform would also upgrade Concealment to 50% to be on par with Displacement. This will save casters from having to cast it regularly and will allow Rogues, Monks, Rangers, and other potential non-caster Shadowdancers the ability to play a higher avoidance playstyle without having to rely on Scrolls, Reusable Items, or an Eternal Flask.

15. Consumed by Shadows was adjusted to bring back its old effect. This is to bring it to be closer to the effect of the Weird spell that Casters would otherwise gain access to. Weird would likely still be a better option since it's usable much more often, has a better save, and takes out many targets at once as opposed to one at a time up to a maximum of 5 every 2 minutes. This ability is still worse off than Everything is Nothing in Grandmaster of Flowers.

16. I added a small amount of Dodge Bypass back to Grim Precision, bringing it to 1/2/3% dodge bypass in addition to its normal effects. This is to make it even slightly more likely to hit targets which is an important feature of the Shadowdancer Epic Destiny.

17. I added an additional 2d6 Sneak Attack dice to the Epic Moment to make it feel even a little bit more epic.

[MacDubh]

Plenty of good ideas so no excuse for the devs not to pick some and fix shadowdancer.

[Xario]

With my proposed changes, here is what would change and why I suggest changing it.

14. Improved Shadowform would also upgrade Concealment to 50% to be on par with Displacement. This will save casters from having to cast it regularly and will allow Rogues, Monks, Rangers, and other potential non-caster Shadowdancers the ability to play a higher avoidance playstyle without having to rely on Scrolls, Reusable Items, or an Eternal Flask.

No.
You evidently didn't notice that concealment bonus from Shadowdancer mantle is stacking now (it didn't stack after U51 release, but have been commented by devs on forum as intended to stack and corrected in some following patch ).
My Shadar kai assassin already have 80% concealment in total, so I finally can see many Blurred notes even in R8 (with -40% concealment reduction from reaper) and 80% displacement is also stated in my character sheet (I have 50% from displacement Shadar kai clicky + 25% from Shadowdancer mantle and +5% from stacking filigree set bonus).

Only displacement part is stacking now, when equiped some ghostly item I am staing on 25% incorporeality (or 50% in epic moment), so incorporeality part still don't stack.