Turning undead

[archest]

at what level does it cease to effect undead?

I've noticed I turn undead but do not destroy them.
was wondering if because they aren't being destroyed completely but only stunned (turned) its being called ineffective.

[GoldyGopher]

at what level does it cease to effect undead?

I've noticed I turn undead but do not destroy them.
was wondering if because they aren't being destroyed completely but only stunned (turned) its being called ineffective.

It doesn't or rather it is dependent on your build.

[archest]

Referring to the Turn Undead link I provided, there are two checks. The first is Turn Check. Outcome range of 4-24 means you can turn between Cleric Level -2 and Cleric Level +4 maximum HD undead. That CR:4 skele probably had 8-10 HD. So, at Cleric level 3, you have no chance of turning him (3+4 < 8HD). Basically, undead HD are so high in DDO that Turning is useless past Catacombs and Delera's on Normal difficulty.

this is the kind of stuff I'm seeing in the forum about turning outdated and no one uses ....

[lronEnema]

at what level does it cease to effect undead?

I've noticed I turn undead but do not destroy them.
was wondering if because they aren't being destroyed completely but only stunned (turned) its being called ineffective.

Until a few months ago my main was a death domain cleric. 3 cleric past lives, the 2nd lvl cleric spell that helps turn, a few gear swaps to eternal faith item + beacon of hope + some of the T1 and T2 enhancements from radiant servant, allowed me to turn mobs in R6,7 and 8 Barovia/WPM etc at cap. Only one at a time, but you can spam it very quickly so turning is useful but you need to build for it.

This was all before the stat squish. Because the Turn calculation is it's own little combat system not related to spells I can't see it having been affected by the squish - cleric side calculations won't have changed much don't know about mob side calcs and can't test as Cleric is not a Paladin tank.

One thing I do like is a recent change. It used to be that if you took the enhancement that means you destroy any undead you successfully turn then any that were deathwarded would be completely unaffected by turns. Now if you successfully turn deathwarded undead (and you have the enhancement mentioned) they are instead stunned. A great, though niche, change to the game.

[GoldyGopher]

Referring to the Turn Undead link I provided, there are two checks. The first is Turn Check. Outcome range of 4-24 means you can turn between Cleric Level -2 and Cleric Level +4 maximum HD undead. That CR:4 skele probably had 8-10 HD. So, at Cleric level 3, you have no chance of turning him (3+4 < 8HD). Basically, undead HD are so high in DDO that Turning is useless past Catacombs and Delera's on Normal difficulty.

this is the kind of stuff I'm seeing in the forum about turning outdated and no one uses ....

There is a lot of inaccurate information posted on the DDO forums and you just quoted some.

The Hit Dice of Mobs are based upon the PnP Monster Manual. Their HD does not actually correlate to their HP, HP are inflated in DDO. It gets a little funky for Mobs not actually in the 3.5 Monster Manual, aka Forgewraiths, but their HD appear to be somewhat equivalent to their CR level + some modified number.

Turn Undead is either simple or complicated depending on how you want to look at it.

Their are two rolls involved:

• first you determine the Maximum HD a turnable monster can have within you radius.
• second you determine the Total number of HD your character can turn.

The first part of turning undead is the effective Turning Level.

My Turn Specced Cleric at 30. I am doing this from memory with aid of the Wiki, but I am pretty sure my characters numbers at cap are higher, however that character is currently doing racial reincarnation runs.

Cleric Level 20

Bonuses to Effective Turning Level
Past Live Cleric +6
Death Domain +2
Enhancements +6
Seek Enteral Rest +4
Blessed Water +3
Improved Turning +1
Sacred +13
Insightful Faith +2
Filigree +6

Effective Turn Level - 63

Bonuses To Maximum Hit Dice
Die Roll (variable but..) +4
Eternal Faith +2
Hallowed +13
Filigree +6 (we can argue whether is supposed to work this way or not later)
Aureon Instruction (+4)
Maximum HD - 88(92)


Turning Damage (Total HD Turned)
Effective Level + 2d6 + Charisma Modifier + Effects

Effective Level 63
Average 2d6 (+3 Enhancement Modifier) +10
Charisma Modifier + 27

Bonuses to Maximum Number of HD Turned
Death Domain +2
Enhancement +6
Eternal Faith +4 (Again a discussion on whether they are supposed to stack)
Silver Flame +6
Insightful +4
Filigree Sets +6

Total HD Turned 128 (Range 123-133)

Post U50/51 while running R1 Too Hot to Handle a Turned Specced Cleric will destroy one Forgewraith per turn attempt with a chance to destroy a second one.

[archest]

better understanding of HD to CR and how its effects turning from that.
I understood some of those effects but didn't realize the extent one has to go through to reach that level of hd.
death is easier at those levels for those guys anyway.

[kmoustakas]

at what level does it cease to effect undead?

I've noticed I turn undead but do not destroy them.
was wondering if because they aren't being destroyed completely but only stunned (turned) its being called ineffective.

At level 30 reaper 10 it works fine. Mind you, monsters that have deathblock don't get destroyed.

[NemesisAlien]

There is a lot of inaccurate information posted on the DDO forums and you just quoted some.

The Hit Dice of Mobs are based upon the PnP Monster Manual. Their HD does not actually correlate to their HP, HP are inflated in DDO. It gets a little funky for Mobs not actually in the 3.5 Monster Manual, aka Forgewraiths, but their HD appear to be somewhat equivalent to their CR level + some modified number.

Turn Undead is either simple or complicated depending on how you want to look at it.

Their are two rolls involved:

• first you determine the Maximum HD a turnable monster can have within you radius.
• second you determine the Total number of HD your character can turn.

The first part of turning undead is the effective Turning Level.

My Turn Specced Cleric at 30. I am doing this from memory with aid of the Wiki, but I am pretty sure my characters numbers at cap are higher, however that character is currently doing racial reincarnation runs.

Cleric Level 20

Bonuses to Effective Turning Level
Past Live Cleric +6
Death Domain +2
Enhancements +6
Seek Enteral Rest +4
Blessed Water +3
Improved Turning +1
Sacred +13
Insightful Faith +2
Filigree +6

Effective Turn Level - 63

Bonuses To Maximum Hit Dice
Die Roll (variable but..) +4
Eternal Faith +2
Hallowed +13
Filigree +6 (we can argue whether is supposed to work this way or not later)
Aureon Instruction (+4)
Maximum HD - 88(92)


Turning Damage (Total HD Turned)
Effective Level + 2d6 + Charisma Modifier + Effects

Effective Level 63
Average 2d6 (+3 Enhancement Modifier) +10
Charisma Modifier + 27

Bonuses to Maximum Number of HD Turned
Death Domain +2
Enhancement +6
Eternal Faith +4 (Again a discussion on whether they are supposed to stack)
Silver Flame +6
Insightful +4
Filigree Sets +6

Total HD Turned 128 (Range 123-133)

Post U50/51 while running R1 Too Hot to Handle a Turned Specced Cleric will destroy one Forgewraith per turn attempt with a chance to destroy a second one.

So bottom line is forget about turning until you got all the enhancements, all the ed's, all the gear + figurees and capped at 30?

[archest]

So bottom line is forget about turning until you got all the enhancements, all the ed's, all the gear + figurees and capped at 30?

I would say it only explains the milestones in enhancements needed for upper level undead . all the way through cap.

[GoldyGopher]

So bottom line is forget about turning until you got all the enhancements, all the ed's, all the gear + figurees and capped at 30?

It's more about knowing you can do it, you just have to build for it. Too often people are put off because they don't understand the system (made worse by some bad game text that has never been fixed) and wonder why they can't turn anything above Level 5.

It Level 15 for example you need to have a Maximum HD Turned in the neighborhood of 22 for elite content. It might be a point or two higher or a point or two lower, I don't know off the top of my head. It is going to be in that neighborhood.

As a Level 15 Cleric, assuming you don't have any enhancements, gear, ... the best you can do is a nineteen. Not going to turn anything. Throw in a couple points in enhancements and a couple points from gear you are probably going to meet the minimum Max HD more often than not. You may not be able to turn every mob in the quests, but you can get a few. The opposite side of the coin is the character with all the past lives totally built for it with all the gear may have Max HD in the 40s and a total HD in 60s so they take out three every time they use turn undead.

[Coffey]

karatemack's Turn Undead Guide 2017 may give you some ideas.