4K & UI Scaling

[Deslen]

So, I believe I heard that the devs are going to introduce 4K support as well as UI scaling some time this year.

Does my memory serve me correctly? Any eta on that?

I just won a raffle on a 58" 4K TV... but can't stand the micro hot bars u.u;

[LeoLionxxx]

Latest I heard was from the November Severlin interview where he said it's on the wish list. No concrete guarantees in the slightest so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Here's a link to the interview with the rough time code:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1208164886

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26:15: UI updates to handle 2K & 4K

• Engineering resources are looking into Lag. When lag is better, can start looking into that type of thing.
  
• UI scaling is hard!
  
• Might hopefully start on that next year?

[Cordovan]

It is on our wish list but it will be a big effort to do and just resizing/rescaling icons alone is...a thing. Something like 10,000+ icons?

[LurkingVeteran]

If the problem is just that it's too small, I think you can override the "Application" scaling in properties on the dndlauncher.exe. Doesn't actually increase the icon resolution to 4k though.

Maybe there is some "super resolution" deep learning tools the devs could find that could just batch "AI upscale" the game icons to 4k. Some will likely need small manual touch ups though.

[apocaladle]

It is on our wish list but it will be a big effort to do and just resizing/rescaling icons alone is...a thing. Something like 10,000+ icons?

Why not just write a script to automate scaling them up so they are blurry then sharpen them with a filter and re-save them. I mean it would not be perfect as the ai would mess some of them up but the script plus fixing the ones the sharpen filter messed up would still likely be way faster to program and run than getting an artist to remake 10 thousand icons.

Maybe someone with more experience could explain why this would or would not work?

[Chacka_DDO]

It is on our wish list but it will be a big effort to do and just resizing/rescaling icons alone is...a thing. Something like 10,000+ icons?

The question is if you have to change all these icons by hand (so to speak) in order to make 4k and UI scaling possible or if it is enough, for now, to let all icons just as they are and only make them bigger (I know then the quality suffers) and then your artists could rework the icons with higher resolution afterward (the most important/used icons first).
And maybe the new Icons should be also sufficient to use with 8k or 16k screens or whatever or for use with DDO with another/new game engine so you don't have to do that work again in 10 or 20 years (yes I'm optimistic for DDO).
We all wish for a perfect game and a perfect solution but that's sometimes not always the best way, I assume those folks (not me) who want to use a 4k screen would rather have bigger but pixeled icons/UI than a tiny UI and tiny short cuts.
So the 10k+ icons are not really a sufficient "excuse" if you ask me

[Logicman69]

It is on our wish list but it will be a big effort to do and just resizing/rescaling icons alone is...a thing. Something like 10,000+ icons?

I wonder if you would consider outsourcing this to the player base. I know there is a good amount of players who would take on this project if they were given exclusive in game perks and/or items. Say if they help with the rescaling of icons, then they get VIP for 2 years, the next expansion for free, and an exclusive in game cosmetic (maybe a special SSG cloak or armor). Just a thought to help lessen the burden on your dev/art team.

[Wahnsinnig]

It is on our wish list but it will be a big effort to do and just resizing/rescaling icons alone is...a thing. Something like 10,000+ icons?

But why do you have to do all icons at once?

I am absolutely certain most DDO players would be perfectly happy to live with some icons beeing lower resolution files in the beginning. It does not all have to be done before you make UI scaling and 4k suppport.

And while you probably are correct there are 10k icons in DDO I would bet that at most a couple of hundred are in regular use. Spell icons for example, there are a lot of spells noone ever use because they are not useful for anything.

[LurkingVeteran]

At the very least the game should automatically rescale the UI on 4k screens to match the default size, so it's not unreadable by default for new players, even if the exact same low res icons are used. This can't be that many lines of code since you can even do it with a checkbox in the Windows properties. Heck, an engine developer could probably implement a dumb fractional image rescaling in a few days (maybe e.g. 75% size would be better on 4k screens, not sure how good it would look).

[dredre9987]

Why not just write a script to automate scaling them up so they are blurry then sharpen them with a filter and re-save them. I mean it would not be perfect as the ai would mess some of them up but the script plus fixing the ones the sharpen filter messed up would still likely be way faster to program and run than getting an artist to remake 10 thousand icons.

Maybe someone with more experience could explain why this would or would not work?

Because they are bitmaps

[LiquidZombie]

"It would make icons blurry" is not a good excuse not to have UI scaling.

The current workaround for a too-small UI is to play the game at a lower resolution, which also makes icons (and other elements) blurry compared to the non-scaled versions. It's difficult to see how in-game UI scaling would be any worse than this, and it would offer the advantage that the actual world rendering could still happen at full resolution.

The odd thing is that LoTR Online already has UI scaling, and it uses the same engine. So couldn't the same code be used in DDO?

[eightspoons]

*Surely* there are source images created at a higher resolution or even as vectors .. or did someone over the years forget to back them up.

I find it impossible to believe that anyone could possibly have restricted their artistry to 32x32 pixels (or whatever size those are in game).

[apocaladle]

Because they are bitmaps

Okay, and why does that matter?

Explain like I'm 5 please.

[dredre9987]

Okay, and why does that matter?

Explain like I'm 5 please.

Bitmaps are locked and not scalable. To scale them you actually have to remake them. They are literally 32x32 pixels

[eightspoons]

Bitmaps are locked and not scalable. To scale them you actually have to remake them. They are literally 32x32 pixels

It's been many years since I worked in it, but this used to be a very common issue in the printing industry, and I'm willing to bet that it still is. Clients would send in a miniscule, heavily compressed JPEG of a logo, for example, and say something along the lines of 'we want this printing on a billboard or sign at a size that's over a 100 times larger.'

They just didn't understand at all when it was explained to them that the printing could be done, but the result would look absolutely hideous, and asking for a version in a scalable image format would be met with blank looks every time.

But as I indicated above, I'd just be bowled over if the source images of game icons were restricted to such a small size. You start large and scale down as necessary. Solves so many issues later on. It's been my mantra for years.

[Arkandor]

Bitmaps are locked and not scalable. To scale them you actually have to remake them. They are literally 32x32 pixels

Scaling to various screen resolutions while keeping a fixed UI size would be a PITA, yes, but scaling from 32x32 to 64x64 is quite easy: Fill each pixel of the 64x64 bitmap with the value at pos (x/2, y/2) in the 32x32 source.

Implementing true scaling might be far too much effort, but a "Double UI Size" checkbox seems realistic, and playing in 4K while having the 1080p UI size sounds fantastic.

[dredre9987]

It's been many years since I worked in it, but this used to be a very common issue in the printing industry, and I'm willing to bet that it still is. Clients would send in a miniscule, heavily compressed JPEG of a logo, for example, and say something along the lines of 'we want this printing on a billboard or sign at a size that's over a 100 times larger.'

They just didn't understand at all when it was explained to them that the printing could be done, but the result would look absolutely hideous, and asking for a version in a scalable image format would be met with blank looks every time.

But as I indicated above, I'd just be bowled over if the source images of game icons were restricted to such a small size. You start large and scale down as necessary. Solves so many issues later on. It's been my mantra for years.

This and so much this. I have been trying to tell people for years why they haven’t done it yet…

On the last yes the icons were all made at 32x32. Poor foresight but that’s what they did.

[dredre9987]

Scaling to various screen resolutions while keeping a fixed UI size would be a PITA, yes, but scaling from 32x32 to 64x64 is quite easy: Fill each pixel of the 64x64 bitmap with the value at pos (x/2, y/2) in the 32x32 source.

Implementing true scaling might be far too much effort, but a "Double UI Size" checkbox seems realistic, and playing in 4K while having the 1080p UI size sounds fantastic.

That’s the problem though, literally everything in the UI is 32x32 bitmaps. I mean it is totally possible to do but the hours it’s going to take is very tremendous. There is literally no shortcut for this issue. They just need to hunker down and hire some temps for the art dept and get it done.

[BurnerD]

It is good to hear this is at least being considered.

The UI problem is only going to become more of an issue as technology progresses.

I would think somebody trying this game on a gaming setup at high resolution is going to be immediately annoyed by the tiny non-scalable UI before they even get into gameplay and lag. The more things that make the game annoying means less time I spend giving it a chance.

I would think this the scaling could be farmed out so it just becomes an issue of money and not time. What would it take? Is it something that could be funded through a special event of offer in game?

I'd spend some cash on something in game that would go to support UI scaling and UI inventory improvement.

[eightspoons]

This and so much this. I have been trying to tell people for years why they haven’t done it yet…

On the last yes the icons were all made at 32x32. Poor foresight but that’s what they did.

Consider me bowled over ...