Mary's top ten bad things in the new epic destiny system

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

MARY'S TOP TEN BAD THINGS IN THE NEW EPIC DESTINY SYSTEM


In my latest YouTube video on the new Epic Destiny system, we take an in-depth look at the new Epic Destiny systems biggest problems.


TOP TEN BAD THINGS IN THE NEW EPIC DESTINY SYSTEM.


https://youtu.be/tQrpoeK-HAM


TOP TEN BAD THINGS:


1. The new Destiny and Fate points are too confusing.

2. You cannot see the other trees once locked in your three.

3. Most of the powerful abilities are tied to the mantle.

4. Epic strikes are all on the same cool down.

5. Only one epic mantle active at a time.

6. Only one epic moment, and some only are 20 seconds while others are 30 or 40 seconds.

7. Costs a lot of platinum to reset - the old system was free to reset.

8. 1 mantle/1strike/1 moment do not replace twists of fate.

9. It's very dumbed down and has reduced the number of builds in DDO.

10. Many, many, skills are duplicated copies renamed in each tree presenting a veneer of unique trees that are actually redundant.

BONUS: No karma refill @ lvl 30 means there's nothing to do if you gear farm or raid; there is no incentive to stay lvl 30, quest, and try the new trees.

[Annex]

That's a decent list but I would add a few more.

Under the old system, a character had full access to all Epic abilities from 20 to 30. Under the new system, many abilities do not kick in until the high 20s and the best stuff only kicks in at 30. If you reset on reaching 30, you never get to use the best stuff.

Under the old system, I could use one Destiny for easy quests and another for hard quests and swap quickly as needed. Swapping in Energy Sheath (or whatever) was also pretty easy. The new system makes switching configurations really painful.

Under the old system, I set my Destiny at 20 and was off running. Now I need to constantly fiddle with trees, reset trees, and swap trees depending on my level. It is a huge time waster.

Under the old system, I could take a damage dealer and turn her into a pretty durable off tank with the push of a button. Now I need to build the off tank in Heroic levels and once she is built that way, I really cannot turn her back into a good damage dealer with the Epic trees. I'm still trying stuff but so far I cannot do what I want to do.

[Reign.]

MARY'S TOP TEN BAD THINGS IN THE NEW EPIC DESTINY SYSTEM


In my latest YouTube video on the new Epic Destiny system, we take an in-depth look at the new Epic Destiny systems biggest problems.


TOP TEN BAD THINGS IN THE NEW EPIC DESTINY SYSTEM.


https://youtu.be/tQrpoeK-HAM


TOP TEN BAD THINGS:


1. The new Destiny and Fate points are too confusing.

2. You cannot see the other trees once locked in your three.

3. Most of the powerful abilities are tied to the mantle.

4. Epic strikes are all on the same cool down.

5. Only one epic mantle active at a time.

6. Only one epic moment, and some only are 20 seconds while others are 30 or 40 seconds.

7. Costs a lot of platinum to reset - the old system was free to reset.

8. 1 mantle/1strike/1 moment do not replace twists of fate.

9. It's very dumbed down and has reduced the number of builds in DDO.

10. Many, many, skills are duplicated copies renamed in each tree presenting a veneer of unique trees that are actually redundant.

BONUS: No karma refill @ lvl 30 means there's nothing to do if you gear farm or raid; there is no incentive to stay lvl 30, quest, and try the new trees.

Honestly. Your video is bad... Sorry. You say things are bad and don't tell us why. You state your opinions as facts and offer no actual reasons to why these things are bad or why you have such an opinion. You don't have a basic understanding of why they made the decisions that they did and even asked such a question several times.

Worse, all this serves is a means to undermine all the positive u51 has brought to the game without actually bringing any actionable solutions or suggestions. Well, one exception. I can agree there should be some option to view alternative options without having to reset a tree first. Granted heroic enhancements have the same issue, but it isn't as prevalent. Other than that though... shame.

While I may not be a ddo dev, allow me to shed some light on what I believe to be why some of these decisions were made (on top of what was publicly said which.. I'm guessing you missed or didn't find convincing).


1. Arguably, you're not wrong on this one. They'd tried really hard to keep value to old point sources. So the system was always going to be convoluted. But the player base will learn and ultimately its not that complicated. The same elements existed in the old system soo.. Anyway, your points available to spend is all folks care about right? They'll be fine.

2. Not having visibility to other options... I agree, we could use a solution of some kind in game. Won't dwell on this, but the tech is just as restrictive elsewhere.

If you stopped there... I would've been on board, but you didn't...

3, 4, 5, 6, 8. Are all really the same point. What you fail to understand is that this is how each destiny generates its identity. A few exclusive abilities that you tied to your primary tree or you can mix and match or use situationally from other trees is what they're going for. Ya know... kind of like classes. Epic classes. Its not a direct correlation, but the outcome is roughly the same idea. Are DnD classes bad because I can't get evasion without taking 2 levels of rogue on your paladin? It's that choice is what creates the flexibility and the choices interesting. So you have something to actually build with instead of just taking the best/forced options.

The old system, while open ended... had the opposite effect. Only the absolute best abilities for your role were viable options. Few to zero things compete. Without sacrifice... the old system choices... was in actuality, very narrow.

This is a basic game/system design concept and is the back bone of nearly every game you'll ever play. All you focused on was the total number of options available to you. Need to consider the consequences. That's what making building fun. The old system... basically had no consequences.

7. The Old system wasn't free to reset. It was free to switch. While interesting and neat to be able to do... it never made sense and something only a small % of the player based abused. Me included, but if this is the sacrifice I need to make for a better system I'd take it. The plat bomb to reset is a bit much, but once players get past the 'test phase' they'll be fine. Still.. if it was less I wouldn't complain.

You claimed in the video that it was a good thing that players had to play around in other trees to get a feel for how things worked. Which.. honestly couldn't be further from the truth in my opinion. Most of the time, I feel that with how roles work in ddo, playing in an off destiny and using its intended role was rarely how it worked. A fighter or a barbarian can't really just start using the caster trees or ranged trees on a whim. Odds are you just stuck to your style, and ignored the tree's intended playstyle as you suffered through content. Such a good game experience (can you feel my eyes rolling? lol)

9. Dumbed down and reduced builds.... are you kidding me!? I honestly don't know how people are coming to this conclusion. Build a tank pre u51. You're in US, and you take roughly the same twists every time. Build a tank post u51... You have US, LD, Shadowdancer, and Fury of the Wild to consider. Your 'twists' now include options from those same ED's but also EA for heals/mantle, Primal Avatar, Draconic Incarnation, Fatesinger and who knows... That's just tanks... Every other role actually has even more options. Especially DC casters...

Which brings me to another point. In your video you were befuddled as to why Spell DC's don't stack. DDO, imo, should implement more of this. Brings me back to the part about choices, but on top of that, you narrow the range between haves and have nots. Allows you to specialize in more than one school. Which honestly, wasn't an option in the old system. Its specifically there to keep one school from getting out of hand as well when it comes to DC balance against mobs. All of which creates greater diversity of builds and allow players to explore more options.

Also you mentioned that your necro spells weren't landing anymore. if your necro spells worked before u51 they should be working even better post u51 with how the stat squish worked. So if your spells aren't landing... you're looking in the wrong place as to why they're saving. That's not an opinion. That's just math and actual gameplay experience. Again... not sure how you came to this conclusion.

10. In the video, you mentioned a few times that this was the case in tons of places. The ONLY place where this is true was indeed the one example you gave for the T5 spell dc's to all schools. That's it (even if there were more... its just flavor. Why is this so bad?)

Here, you can combine the points I've made about destiny identity (caster trees need this, so every caster tree gets it) and how spell dc's shouldn't just all stack. Giving to all schools was the correct choice. Now your main school is only 15% more effective than your other schools (from an ED source). This number is high enough to make a big difference, but not SO big that all other schools are worthless. And you can reduce this difference if you choose to specialize in more schools by 'twisting' for it.

BONUS - Having to fill our karma and play in off destinies, imo, was the worst part about the old system. Putting that aside, let me unravel your argument with a question... What about the players that had max karma and their ED's completed; what were those players doing pre u51?

Oh that's right... the same things their doing post u51....

There is plenty of things to do at 30. Gearing, Raiding, Mat farming, Crafting, Reaper, favor cleanup... or just play for fun at full power.

That being said, u51 wasn't perfect. Some things still need tweaking and improved. The Dev's themselves plan to do just that in future updates/patches. Which, (apologies if I missed it), I don't think is something you mentioned.

Such a shame. You did nothing to better educate the public, you misrepresented facts, and offered no real substance towards improving the situation. It only served to fan the flames by repeating the same incorrect, worthless, and baseless arguments that some people on the forums have been spewing since the preview. May you reflect and come back better.

[Deathmaster35]

1. The new Destiny and Fate points are too confusing.

That is subjective. I dont find it confusing.

2. You cannot see the other trees once locked in your three.

use the Wiki if you want to re-evaluate your choices. You cant see other enhancement trees once you have points set in the max available either. That isnt something that is "bad" its just how things work. Why are you trying to look at other trees than the ones you are currently able to spend points in?

3. Most of the powerful abilities are tied to the mantle.

or to the epic strike... how is that bad? You get to take your pick of a powerful ability to use from one of your trees. Are you saying it is bad that you have to pick? or are you saying it is bad that they are powerful?

4. Epic strikes are all on the same cool down.

how is this bad? If they wernt all on the same cooldown they would have to be made weak. I would rather have one button that is something good than three buttons of things that are mediocre.

5. Only one epic mantle active at a time.

how is this bad? Just like with the strikes, if they wernt limited they would have to be much weaker, essentially one third the power to make up for the fact you have three of them

6. Only one epic moment, and some only are 20 seconds while others are 30 or 40 seconds.

.. I am sensing a pattern here. You seem to be failing to understand the concept of balance. They are limited so they can be strong

7. Costs a lot of platinum to reset - the old system was free to reset.

a lot is realitive.. and the old system was not free. The old system was very expensive to reset. One night I spent over 2 mil plat resetting trees testing various things out. At the same time, money in this game is almost useless. The point in having it is to be able to pay to reset trees, it really has no other use in the game beyond very minor costs for things like scrolls and repairs.

8. 1 mantle/1strike/1 moment do not replace twists of fate.

what? they clearly did as twists of fate are gone, the current system is here and people are still able to complete the same content as before.. the new system has some overpowred things in it that are going to need to be nerfed and some broken things that just dont even work that need to be fixed. I just wish it were easier to report bugs to report the abilities that dont work or dont work as described.

9. It's very dumbed down and has reduced the number of builds in DDO.

... adding a few twists to a tree doesnt really count as a "build" the new system allows for more builds than the old system as the combination of mantles and strikes are greater than the number of viable options in the old trees.

10. Many, many, skills are duplicated copies renamed in each tree presenting a veneer of unique trees that are actually redundant.

The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are the spell DCs, which makes sense to have them in multiple trees so people have easy access to them.. as they are essentially required to function as a caster in legendary content. I think I saw the +1PRR/+1MRR option in multiple trees too.. referring to a few select repeated items as "many many" is disingenuous

No karma refill @ lvl 30 means there's nothing to do if you gear farm or raid; there is no incentive to stay lvl 30, quest, and try the new trees.

What? the insentive to stay 30 is the same as always. I considered it a penalty to have to stay at 30 to fill a tree on karam for an epic reincarnate. It was annoying having to play sub-optiminal(or just bad) trees to fill up karma in it for a reincarnation.
You stay at 30 to be powerful to do the highest content in the game, such as farming reaper xp and raiding.

[Seph1roth5]

1. Definitely. I don't see how anyone can say it's not confusing when practically no one can tell you how many DP they start out with without doing a bunch of math and checking tomes. The bonus problem with that is it's harder to tell if you're getting the right amount of DP.

2. Annoying, and saying you can look at the wiki is a stupid. Why not just have no info on items or spells then.

3. The mantle/strike problem directly counteracts the "more options" idea. Maybe if you have a bajillion epic past lives. But my static group has a fair number and you still only have the points to get one mantle/strike enhanced all the way. So yeah you can have other ones, but they're weaker, and all on one cooldown. This also completely counteracts the whole "Twists are gone but now you can have THREE trees at once!" Since you're not getting what you want.

6. 5 min cooldown is ridiculous for the power level. Plus, during all the Lam's, most people complained about the cooldown/duration/power ratio. And I think most people also like a 3 min kind of cooldown, if not lower. They took every opportunity to lower our power in the update.

7. They realized the plat cost was insane and lowered it to a less insane level, but it's STILL insane. Plat was ruined many years ago, this plat sink is NOT a good way to go. Especially when a lot of resets are because many enhancements are bugged. Also, the whole 3 tree/no twist system means it's prohibitively expensive to switch around.

9. It honestly feels like the old system in terms of flexibility. Like...you COULD go draconic as a fighter, but you probably won't and if you did everyone would wonder *** you were doing. My warlock feels good in draconic because he's an aura warlock with lots of AoE, so the dragon breath boosted that, while ruin in t5 helped my single target dps. That said, he's my only spellcaster who took both ruins. I had an air sorc and pale master who went draconic and t5 felt meh. They tried other EDs and all felt meh at t5 too. It was very disappointing.

I'd like to add 2 more big problems I had.

A - Super lowering of power. I made a big ol post when Lamannia was going about how many of the epic enhancements were weaker than heroic ones. It was just sad to spend 3 points for like...3 prr/mrr, or 3 ac. And it was just insulting to see t4 and t5s that gave 10 spellpower. Not only did they weaken practically all enhancements, they moved them higher in the trees.

So again, they hawked how awesome having 3 trees were as if they replaced twists, but if you want some light spellpower from exalted angel, it's t4! It'd be like in the old system if everything was a t4 to twist

B - Another big one for me is that they tried too hard to make every tree have something for everyone. What that means for me is that about 30-40% of EVERY character I play in epic is just throwing their points away to get to a higher tier. Leveling is a smooth consistent progression now, because it's mostly boring. Woohoo I hit 22 and....am just saving my pts for 23. Levels 23, 26, and 30 are the only levels to look forward to.