Reaper Crafting - Awesome Idea but 100:1 Trade in REALLY?!

[TheMaxpower]

I can confirm the mythic bonus remains on the item.

Also, regarding the reaper ring dc's not stacking with the reaper bonus, they also don't stack with each other. I have 2 rings with the crafted DC bonus and only gain +1 DC

I am sorry to hear that you crafted two rings with the DC reaper bonus only to find out they do not stack. This is odd because reaper bonuses on different items always stacked in the past. This is also very unfortunate, as you used a lot of valuable mats to build two rings, only to find out they don't stack. It takes players a very long time to acquire the mats necessary to build these things. I think SSG has a responsibility clarify ALL the rules regarding this new crafting system ASAP, before other people waste mats that may have taken them YEARS to acquire. This clarification should be done in a way that all players see it (not just a forum post). Withholding this critical information from the players is unnecessary, cruel, and irresponsible IMO. SSG - Please address this issue ASAP. Thank you and Happy New Year

[slarden]

I can confirm the mythic bonus remains on the item.

Also, regarding the reaper ring dc's not stacking with the reaper bonus, they also don't stack with each other. I have 2 rings with the crafted DC bonus and only gain +1 DC

Thanks for beating me to the punch on the mythic bonuses being retained.

For the DC bonus, it sounds like it's typed wrong and presumably a dev will fix it once they find out (can someone cast the summon Lynnabel spell please). Perhaps it was assigned to the reaper enhancement bonus by mistake since the names are similar. It can't be working as intended.

[Oxarhamar]

I am sorry to hear that you crafted two rings with the DC reaper bonus only to find out they do not stack. This is odd because reaper bonuses on different items always stacked in the past. This is also very unfortunate, as you used a lot of valuable mats to build two rings, only to find out they don't stack. It takes players a very long time to acquire the mats necessary to build these things. I think SSG has a responsibility clarify ALL the rules regarding this new crafting system ASAP, before other people waste mats that may have taken them YEARS to acquire. This clarification should be done in a way that all players see it (not just a forum post). Withholding this critical information from the players is unnecessary, cruel, and irresponsible IMO. SSG - Please address this issue ASAP. Thank you and Happy New Year

a broken system that the players need to figure out whats broken gets pumped out

This is the standard

[JOTMON]

Lol, guy, seems you just have no idea about you talk... sorry...

I already have enough stuff to craft at least one, mebbe two nice thingies, and most of the stuff i obtain from AH, some - from ASAH, include 8 reaper ability helmets ( 6 from ASAH, 2 from AH), so no, in game more than enough potentially bonused stuff to trade in AH/ASAH. Mebbe you just need try before talk nonsense? 8)

But... i cannot deconstruct any from my stuff, overflooded my mules, mailboxes and reincarnation cashes just because my most advanced toon have only about 20-22 reaper point. And it's problem!

So.. you found a way to throw money at the ingredient problem .. it didn't solve the xp requirement.. and now you have all the parts for a car you are not old enough to drive taking up all your space.

[Blerk]

I can confirm the mythic bonus remains on the item.

Also, regarding the reaper ring dc's not stacking with the reaper bonus, they also don't stack with each other. I have 2 rings with the crafted DC bonus and only gain +1 DC

That's very useful. Thanks very much for letting us know about this.

[Blerk]

I am sorry to hear that you crafted two rings with the DC reaper bonus only to find out they do not stack. This is odd because reaper bonuses on different items always stacked in the past. This is also very unfortunate, as you used a lot of valuable mats to build two rings, only to find out they don't stack. It takes players a very long time to acquire the mats necessary to build these things. I think SSG has a responsibility clarify ALL the rules regarding this new crafting system ASAP, before other people waste mats that may have taken them YEARS to acquire. This clarification should be done in a way that all players see it (not just a forum post). Withholding this critical information from the players is unnecessary, cruel, and irresponsible IMO. SSG - Please address this issue ASAP. Thank you and Happy New Year

Yes.

[Jaysun]

Yes for a reaper helm it is a big grind, but not an impossible one. If you run heroic Borderlands to ransack every week it should take you about 6 months to get enough for a stat helm.

Only 1% of the population will do this...even less will "want" to do this. Especially since a New Xpac can randomly have a new item that comes out and replaced this item or a better item for the slot. A lot can happen in 6 months. Three months is more realistic if you want to make something a "grind".

[Caarb]

Only 1% of the population will do this...even less will "want" to do this. Especially since a New Xpac can randomly have a new item that comes out and replaced this item or a better item for the slot. A lot can happen in 6 months. Three months is more realistic if you want to make something a "grind".

The reality is most end game players will have to do this. The bonuses especially for a DC caster are too large to ignore (assuming the stacking issue is a bug)

[Juduss]

Yes for a reaper helm it is a big grind, but not an impossible one. If you run heroic Borderlands to ransack every week it should take you about 6 months to get enough for a stat helm.

That’s how many chests ransacked weekly, for ~6 months, to acquire a single R stat helm? And that’s time spent in addition to whatever in-game things I actually want to do for fun? You’ve nicely highlighted the ugliness of the system, thanks.

(assuming the stacking issue is a bug and they actually bother to fix it, instead of relegating to the permanently known issues they don’t bother with list)

^fify^

The Dev’s confusing enjoyable gameplay with tedious grinds is what drove me away years ago. Was hoping these past years might have brought some more player friendly insights to development… guess not.

[Airmaiden]

The reality is most end game players will have to do this. The bonuses especially for a DC caster are too large to ignore (assuming the stacking issue is a bug)

Only Problem with that is most end gamers know that in 2 -5 months, there gear will not be BiS and they will need to upgrade all new gear......100:1 is way to much!

[ChrisTOTG]

Consuming items that could otherwise be shared to benefit other players is toxic design. Also add sentient xp gems in quest level appropriate amounts to all content and remove item feeding for that system too.

Leaving items in chests because nobody can use them... that's pretty unpleasant. We've got used to the sentient XP thing, and it's not bad to give away an item or two because you'll get more in an evening of playing anyway.

But when any item with any reaper bonus becomes as valuable as it is for this system, then why give it away? Now whoever gets the item can use it on two different systems. I hope SSG has a proper plan for this other than "Hey ya know what would be cool?"

[Chacka_DDO]

Only 1% of the population will do this...even less will "want" to do this. Especially since a New Xpac can randomly have a new item that comes out and replaced this item or a better item for the slot. A lot can happen in 6 months. Three months is more realistic if you want to make something a "grind".

If the developers are serious that the "crunch" of 100 for one named item with reaper boost will remain the only way to acquire the necessary ingredients to boost your items I'm afraid they have a similar fallacy as they had with the charging system for the EDs.
The point the developers might not see is that a player has to boost up to 14 items for EACH character he has and if the character uses only one "outfit" the current crafting system seems to be well balanced if you assume the goal of each player is to boost one single item at all.

But I would also be not surprised if the crafting system as we see it now was only a start also to see what the players think and further additions/balances are planned.
From my impression out of this thread, I would even say 100% of the players think it was a GOOD idea! But also almost all players think it is currently not well balanced and it is too difficult if the item crunch remains the only source.

For me is clear that you should get ingredients for reaper boosts for your items for killing reapers but this might need also some further changes to the game because currently, it is possible to enter a level 1 quest on reaper with a level 30 character (if you know how) and this problem has to be fixed first.
First, it should not be possible (even if think it is not really worthwhile even if you know how) and like champs, in low-level quests, reapers should not drop
ingredients for reaper boosts (if the developers do that)

And I also think it should be possible to boost your items with mythic boosts and I would use a certain amount of remnants for each item (2,5k for a +1/2 boost and 10k for a +3/4 boost) some might say that this is too easy but if you consider that this is not the only use for remnants and you need 140000 remnants to boost only one "outfit" then I would even say it is more than enough!

[Chacka_DDO]

The reality is most end game players will have to do this. The bonuses especially for a DC caster are too large to ignore (assuming the stacking issue is a bug)

Indeed but the problem is basically the DC system in general and how the developer balance it, they seem to assume that the "standard" is a player who has absolutely everything and if you have 20 DC less than this "standard" you have a 95% fail rate where the player who has everything sees a 95% success rate and this is fundamentally WRONG! (I know I simplify the problem it is actually quite difficult for a developer to do the balance job with the current requirements).
The DC system needs basically a fundamental overhaul and for that, there are several ways but the goal should be that it should much more matter which class you take (a drow with 20 intelligence should actually have a real advantage over a half-orc with 16 intelligence) and also the feats you chose should have more impact on your success rate than currently, currently at level 30 you get for 3 focus feats for one school less than for one item that boosts all schools and this is plain wrong.
And the same to the boosts on the ring you describe, if you are within the 20 DC window you cannot pass the +5% or even +10% success rate increase from such reaper boosts.

In my opinion, the DC system should change in a way that ONLY your base ability score and feats can increase your DC and you should always have a moderate chance for success (for example Finger of Death on a troll 40% for a player who has a first life character but he has all feats and a good caster race).
And this what we now know as the DC could be some kind of "casing skill" that makes your spells in a different way more useful/better, for example, less cooldown and/or faster casting or spells do more damage because the skill counts as a kind of attack score against the save (similar to AC versus to-hit)

[slarden]

The reality is most end game players will have to do this. The bonuses especially for a DC caster are too large to ignore (assuming the stacking issue is a bug)

I don't think so. I only ever farmed reaper ability bonus helms on loot bonus weekends because I seem to get so many more reaper enhancement drops.

If someone is an end-game DC caster they can easily adjust without the 3 DC, especially with U51 changes where casters no longer need to choose between DPS and DC - they get the full package by default. Don't get me wrong I will go for the bonuses if i can, but I am not going to sweat it if I don't get it. I like chase items, but I don't obsess over them.

In my opinion, the DC system should change in a way that ONLY your base ability score and feats can increase your DC and you should always have a moderate chance for success (for example Finger of Death on a troll 40% for a player who has a first life character but he has all feats and a good caster race).

The likely result of this is casters focusing mostly on DPS which is already a more reliable focus vs. dc spells. DC spells are balanced by cooldown, enemy high saves and champion immunities. Throwing so much random chance to it will discourage using the full spellbook and make casting very boring.

A new player should stay away from casting unless they are in a static group. Bringing down success rates for vets won't improve the casting experience for new players.

[Chacka_DDO]

The likely result of this is casters focusing mostly on DPS which is already a more reliable focus vs. dc spells. DC spells are balanced by cooldown, enemy high saves and champion immunities. Throwing so much random chance to it will discourage using the full spellbook and make casting very boring.

A new player should stay away from casting unless they are in a static group. Bringing down success rates for vets won't improve the casting experience for new players.

You should consider that I said what I said because I know what you know and that I might see more than you (no offense I'm aware it is entirely possible you see more and it is me who is wrong)

The point is that it is for example in my opinion wrong to advise a so-called new player to stay away from certain spells because they fail anyway (because they don't have the items or they don't have the past lives or reaper APs etc.)

The point is even a new player SHOULD have the chance to have use of all spells IF he plays right, if it is different there is something wrong with the game balance.
A veteran should have advantages from playing more because it is an incite to play to acquire such advantages but they should be SMALL and not like a veteran has 95% success rate while a new player sees 95% fails of his/her spells no matter what he does (yes I know this is a simplification)

I'm well aware of the fact that it is currently different but in contrast to you (seemingly) I see beyond that fact and I see that this can be different and I make a suggestion for that.

And the main problem is that there is a basically relatively small window of 20 DC and it is only relevant what your DC score is when you are within that window, if you are below that window you have a 95% fail chance no matter what effort you put in your DC and if you are beyond that window you have no additional benefit if you get a higher DC.

And by the way, I know a veteran is currently used to seeing a 95% success rate no matter what type of monsters he casts his spell on and I barely see such veterans use debuff spells on monsters but also this is basically wrong.
In my opinion, also veteran players should play right, for example, they should know which monster type has certain resists (fortitude reflex or will) and use the right spells on them and if necessary use debuffs and boosts.
However, how you balance it exactly is a different question but I think items should have no impact on your DC check and there should be in general a dramatic reduction of the factors we have currently.

It should be always most important that you make the right choices (at character creation and feat selection) and it should be secondary that you play DDO already 15 years or if you just start it.

And by the way, regarding DPS spells, if the monster has evasion and you don't make the DC check it is still also a complete fail and also this leads to complete useless spells for a new player.
But now you might tell me that a new player should not play a caster? You can see this in that way but I see this different, as I said it should be more important that you take the right decisions on your build and not that you played already for 15 years and I say that as someone who played almost 16 years but I still try not to be blind to fundamental flaws DDO has out of my sight (and of course that's always only my opinion and some things can be seen different or I can be just wrong).

[slarden]

You should consider that I said what I said because I know what you know and that I might see more than you (no offense I'm aware it is entirely possible you see more and it is me who is wrong)

The point is that it is for example in my opinion wrong to advise a so-called new player to stay away from certain spells because they fail anyway (because they don't have the items or they don't have the past lives or reaper APs etc.)

The point is even a new player SHOULD have the chance to have use of all spells IF he plays right, if it is different there is something wrong with the game balance.
A veteran should have advantages from playing more because it is an incite to play to acquire such advantages but they should be SMALL and not like a veteran has 95% success rate while a new player sees 95% fails of his/her spells no matter what he does (yes I know this is a simplification)

I'm well aware of the fact that it is currently different but in contrast to you (seemingly) I see beyond that fact and I see that this can be different and I make a suggestion for that.

And the main problem is that there is a basically relatively small window of 20 DC and it is only relevant what your DC score is when you are within that window, if you are below that window you have a 95% fail chance no matter what effort you put in your DC and if you are beyond that window you have no additional benefit if you get a higher DC.

And by the way, I know a veteran is currently used to seeing a 95% success rate no matter what type of monsters he casts his spell on and I barely see such veterans use debuff spells on monsters but also this is basically wrong.
In my opinion, also veteran players should play right, for example, they should know which monster type has certain resists (fortitude reflex or will) and use the right spells on them and if necessary use debuffs and boosts.
However, how you balance it exactly is a different question but I think items should have no impact on your DC check and there should be in general a dramatic reduction of the factors we have currently.

It should be always most important that you make the right choices (at character creation and feat selection) and it should be secondary that you play DDO already 15 years or if you just start it.

And by the way, regarding DPS spells, if the monster has evasion and you don't make the DC check it is still also a complete fail and also this leads to complete useless spells for a new player.
But now you might tell me that a new player should not play a caster? You can see this in that way but I see this different, as I said it should be more important that you take the right decisions on your build and not that you played already for 15 years and I say that as someone who played almost 16 years but I still try not to be blind to fundamental flaws DDO has out of my sight (and of course that's always only my opinion and some things can be seen different or I can be just wrong).

I agree it's flawed, but I don't think it's going to change and is unlikely to ever get on the dev's radar. Unless/Until it changes, new players should stay away from casting until they get a bit more experience with the game. If they are willing to make a few purchases that might change the dynamic a bit. If they want to go full free-to-play I think paladin is the absolute best starter class.

My opinion is based on trying to level up various characters on a free-to-play account with no tomes, purchases, hand-me downs, but with my existing game knowledge. It has nothing to do with my philosophy about what the game should be or what the devs should do - I have no influence on that.

What I found is that problem goes way beyond dc for casters. HP/PRR/MRR/Saves - all too low. Spell point pools, evasion, immunities, dps - all problematic. I think things do improve for casters at higher heroic levels and I gave up before that. I just think getting to level 12 or so is painful unless you are in a full static group. A PM eldritch knight melee is very solid on the other hand, but it's way better with harper tree - something most ftp won't have initially. On the other hand I can take my characters and tear through content with any build. Casters work great.

[Hawkwier]

I agree it's flawed, but I don't think it's going to change and is unlikely to ever get on the dev's radar. Unless/Until it changes, new players should stay away from casting until they get a bit more experience with the game. If they are willing to make a few purchases that might change the dynamic a bit. If they want to go full free-to-play I think paladin is the absolute best starter class.

My opinion is based on trying to level up various characters on a free-to-play account with no tomes, purchases, hand-me downs, but with my existing game knowledge. It has nothing to do with my philosophy about what the game should be or what the devs should do - I have no influence on that.

What I found is that problem goes way beyond dc for casters. HP/PRR/MRR/Saves - all too low. Spell point pools, evasion, immunities, dps - all problematic. I think things do improve for casters at higher heroic levels and I gave up before that. I just think getting to level 12 or so is painful unless you are in a full static group. A PM eldritch knight melee is very solid on the other hand, but it's way better with harper tree - something most ftp won't have initially. On the other hand I can take my characters and tear through content with any build. Casters work great.

You may well be right and given your undoubted experience and expertise I'm happy to assume you are.

That being the case though, what an indictment of the game! Essentially we're saying don't play a whole playstyle as a new player.

I'd conservatively estimate 25% of new players will want to play a caster. Thus "making a big mistake" from the off, simply because the game balance fails to cater for them.

With the majority having no way of knowing they are even making such a fundamental error from the off either.

And when it all inevitably goes wrong, many of them may well, quite understandably, give up in disgust. Moreover blasting the game and it's reputation. Bad rep travels fast.

What a state to be in.

From purely a business model perspective, such issues should be right at the top of the pile to address. Assuming of course a business model predicated on marketing and growth, rather than squeezing existing loyal customers to their limits of tolerance and managed decline. Maybe therein lies the answer to inaction?

[J1NG]

Questions that need answers to from existing system:

1. Is the Reaper DC Bonus working outside of Reaper? Like how the Reaper Stat Helms are? (Helps players outside of just Reaper Content)
2. I'm assuming the DC bonus still works when the Reaper Enhancement Tree was reset? Has anyone confirmed this? (Helps reduce cost needed inside any Reaper Tree)

J1NG

[Fanaval]

I am sorry to hear that you crafted two rings with the DC reaper bonus only to find out they do not stack. This is odd because reaper bonuses on different items always stacked in the past. This is also very unfortunate, as you used a lot of valuable mats to build two rings, only to find out they don't stack. It takes players a very long time to acquire the mats necessary to build these things. I think SSG has a responsibility clarify ALL the rules regarding this new crafting system ASAP, before other people waste mats that may have taken them YEARS to acquire. This clarification should be done in a way that all players see it (not just a forum post). Withholding this critical information from the players is unnecessary, cruel, and irresponsible IMO. SSG - Please address this issue ASAP. Thank you and Happy New Year

Please, can a dev answer or address this issue?

[noinfo]

You should consider that I said what I said because I know what you know and that I might see more than you (no offense I'm aware it is entirely possible you see more and it is me who is wrong)

The point is that it is for example in my opinion wrong to advise a so-called new player to stay away from certain spells because they fail anyway (because they don't have the items or they don't have the past lives or reaper APs etc.)

The point is even a new player SHOULD have the chance to have use of all spells IF he plays right, if it is different there is something wrong with the game balance.
A veteran should have advantages from playing more because it is an incite to play to acquire such advantages but they should be SMALL and not like a veteran has 95% success rate while a new player sees 95% fails of his/her spells no matter what he does (yes I know this is a simplification)

I'm well aware of the fact that it is currently different but in contrast to you (seemingly) I see beyond that fact and I see that this can be different and I make a suggestion for that.

And the main problem is that there is a basically relatively small window of 20 DC and it is only relevant what your DC score is when you are within that window, if you are below that window you have a 95% fail chance no matter what effort you put in your DC and if you are beyond that window you have no additional benefit if you get a higher DC.

And by the way, I know a veteran is currently used to seeing a 95% success rate no matter what type of monsters he casts his spell on and I barely see such veterans use debuff spells on monsters but also this is basically wrong.
In my opinion, also veteran players should play right, for example, they should know which monster type has certain resists (fortitude reflex or will) and use the right spells on them and if necessary use debuffs and boosts.
However, how you balance it exactly is a different question but I think items should have no impact on your DC check and there should be in general a dramatic reduction of the factors we have currently.

It should be always most important that you make the right choices (at character creation and feat selection) and it should be secondary that you play DDO already 15 years or if you just start it.

And by the way, regarding DPS spells, if the monster has evasion and you don't make the DC check it is still also a complete fail and also this leads to complete useless spells for a new player.
But now you might tell me that a new player should not play a caster? You can see this in that way but I see this different, as I said it should be more important that you take the right decisions on your build and not that you played already for 15 years and I say that as someone who played almost 16 years but I still try not to be blind to fundamental flaws DDO has out of my sight (and of course that's always only my opinion and some things can be seen different or I can be just wrong).

A new player can certainly play a caster, it just takes some tactical choices. Evasion mobs only avoid damage against reflex save spells. You can make a DC caster but just like a completionist you need best in slot gear to maximise it or a very careful gear plan. Your suggestion would destroy dc casting and is obviously based on someone who does not play it or understand it.