Crafting Reaper bonuses not accessible to everyone

[Cantor]

I really hope we can create enough of a backlash to get them to change this. We do NOT need more motivation to destroy gear that other members of the party need. The sentient experience system is already a big problem but this makes it that much worse because now ONLY good gear is targeted for destruction.

This needs to be scrapped and replaced with either an item drop (reapers can drop reaper remnants when killed) or chest loot. If they can add copper/silver/gold coins to every chest in the game at the flick of a switch they can do the same thing with reaper tokens.

I like the idea of reaper remnants, relates it more to actual difficulty, not just fast farming easy stuff. Having them come from reapers seems better.

[erethizon]

You know, every time something new has been added to the game then we have seen these posts here on the forum. After a while it has died down, as nothing changed in game. Nice people that shared their items continued to be nice people and share their items, people that for whatever reason always takes their loot continued to do that.

And the same thing will happen now. Stop working yourself into a rage over nothing.

Do not call people greedy or selfish when you dont know anything about the person playing a character you think is greedy or selfish. Because you have no idea about who the player is and why they do what they do in game.

That is not accurate at all. When they added the Sentient system it became dramatically harder to get end game loot. It isn't impossible. Some people are still willing to share. But the number of people that instantly looted every named item the moment it dropped increased significantly because they added a huge motivation for not sharing your otherwise unneeded loot (especially end game loot).

This system makes it worse. While we all need sentient experience, under the old system some people would still offer up the items they got with Mythic or Reaper bonuses just because it seemed like such a waste to destroy them for sentient experience when someone else might need them. Well now we have a new system designed to break people of that habit by ONLY rewarding the destruction of gear with extra bonuses. They are literally targeting the people that used to be willing to share such gear by making sure they cannot participate in this new reward system unless they stop sharing their good gear with others. If something drops with no bonuses and no one wants it (because we are all looking for gear with bonuses) that gear won't help anyone with this new reaper system. Only destruction of the best gear lets you participate in this new reaper bonus system. That is terrible game design and it needs to go. Not only do we need Reaper Remnants to drop from kills, but they need to remove this way of getting reaper tokens so that they are not actively discouraging cooperative play.

[nobodynobody1426]

I like the idea of reaper remnants, relates it more to actual difficulty, not just fast farming easy stuff. Having them come from reapers seems better.

Yeah some type of shard / material that is dropped from regular reaper monsters would be best, or even as an extra drop item inside a chest. It's almost is if someone had the great idea of a reaper bonus crafting system, then another set of persons said "hold up, we need to slow this down" and implemented the insane costs.

[Kelledren]

Yeah some type of shard / material that is dropped from regular reaper monsters would be best, or even as an extra drop item inside a chest. It's almost is if someone had the great idea of a reaper bonus crafting system, then another set of persons said "hold up, we need to slow this down" and implemented the insane costs.

I do love the idea of reaper fragments dropping instead. That said if someone needs a named item with reap bonus (and I don’t) I would still pass it to the need in favor of getting 1 stupid frag. Not everyone will, but I think a healthy amount of players still will. As it stands, think running lowest level reaper quests and using shard Re-rolls there (3 shards a pop) will prob become a thing to get your pieces. I would like to see the reaper stat boost helms go up to at least 10, prob 50 better (never seen one in a chest), and the items go to at least 2 fragments, prob 5 better.

[clagor]

In general I love the idea of reaper bonus crafting and first thought we get something like the slavers mythic bonus upgrades. (https://ddowiki.com/page/Slave_Lords_Crafting)
But only reading (because I am a casual player with only ~2m RXP so far) and not seeing that I have to crunch 100 items with reaper bonus to get a new reaper bonus is very disappointing.

I play this game, because I like the cooperative playstyle and I am also willing to pass named loot to other players.
Having reaper remnants (similar like mysterious remnant) dropping from reapers only would be the best option to gather crafting materials.
From my perspective, all three different reaper vendors should have the possibility to craft/add reaper bonuses to named items.

Raven Queen Messenger (625,000 Reaper Experience), or 25 reaper points
Raven Queen Augur (2,500,000 Reaper Experience), or 50 reaper points
Raven Queen Herald (5,625,000 Reaper Experience), or 75 reaper points

Based on the reaper vendor you should have the following options to craft/add reaper bonuses to named items.
(reaper difficulty https://ddowiki.com/page/Reaper_difficulty)

Raven Queen Messenger -> +1 bonus (MP/RP/SP/PRR/MRR) +1 bonus (Abilities on helmet)
Raven Queen Augur -> +3 bonus (MP/RP/SP/PRR/MRR) +2 bonus (Abilities on helmet)
Raven Queen Herald -> +5 bonus (MP/RP/SP/PRR/MRR) +3 bonus (Abilities on helmet)

Depending on a possible drop rate of a reaper remnant: e.g. 100% chance of 1 reaper remnant if modified quest level greater or equal character level.
(similar like mysterious remnant https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mysterious_Remnant)

100/300/500 reaper remnants for +1/3/5 bonus (MP/RP/SP/PRR/MRR)
200/600/1000 reaper remnants for +1/2/3 bonus (Abilities on helmet)

These are my thoughts and what I like to see implemented in the future.
I hope that meets also the expectations of most of the DDO player base!

[dredre9987]

Your attitude is perfectly acceptable, but part of good game design is finding ways to make it so that people with your attitude are still willing to share. This is why most raid loot in most games is bound to character and worthless if you are not going to use it. They made a huge mistake when they designed the Sentient Experience system because they added a strong incentive for people to behave in a more selfish manner and this new system compounds that first mistake. The goal should be cooperative game design and the way you do that is by not strongly encouraging selfish gameplay (which is what this new system and the sentient system have done).

It is not that I am unwilling to share, it is the fact that people seem to feel entitled to something that benefits them even though it didn't drop for them. The game rolls for you, you shouldn't feel like what rolls for me is better for you than me. Perhaps it fits my raid alt. Perhaps I can get benefit from it. Perhaps I can sell it. Entitlement is a bad thing.

[dredre9987]

You know, every time something new has been added to the game then we have seen these posts here on the forum. After a while it has died down, as nothing changed in game. Nice people that shared their items continued to be nice people and share their items, people that for whatever reason always takes their loot continued to do that.

And the same thing will happen now. Stop working yourself into a rage over nothing.

Do not call people greedy or selfish when you dont know anything about the person playing a character you think is greedy or selfish. Because you have no idea about who the player is and why they do what they do in game.

This 1000%

[Vannessya]

This new feature is only available to a small number of players.
Players that only run 1 or 2 characters.
This again shows how hurtful it is to run multiple characters in DDO now.

If that feature would be available at the 1st vendor, that would be useful to at least a larger amount of players.
The best would be, to be more inclusive and making it available to everyone.

This decision is very hard to understand and it is seen to show a very punitive attitude from those who made that design decision.

[Monkey_Archer]

I do not think they need to adjust the frags for a Reaper Stat helm......let's say you farm a reaper stat helm (Fey water quest).....if you do not get lucky and pull one....after approx 400 runs, you can craft one (so guaranteed that eventually, you will get it).

I might be confused on your meaning here, but I don't see where the 400 number comes from.

The chance to pull an item on reaper is 33%, the chance that an item will have a reaper bonus is ~5%. That's up to 6000 regular chests per 100 fragments, not 400. (or ~4600 if you run r10). Assuming 10 minutes per quest, that's around 1000 hours of nonstop farming per upgrade.

If you go full pay to win, rerolling every chest on r10, it will only be around 200 hours and ~$2000 in astral shards good luck!

[SpartanKiller13]

I might be confused on your meaning here, but I don't see where the 400 number comes from.

The chance to pull an item on reaper is 33%, the chance that an item will have a reaper bonus is ~5%. That's up to 6000 regular chests per 100 fragments, not 400. (or ~4600 if you run r10). Assuming 10 minutes per quest, that's around 1000 hours of nonstop farming per upgrade.

If you go full pay to win, rerolling every chest on r10, it will only be around 200 hours and ~$2000 in astral shards good luck!

If you're gonna farm for literally half a work year, I'd like to hope you instead save 800 hours and buy some rerolls? I know it's not always an option, but you could literally pick up a part-time job, work for a few hundred hours, and come out ahead both in cash and in hours vs running 1k hours of quests.

Flip side that's work not DDO hours, but still...

[droid327]

This 1000%

This 0%

We actually have concrete evidence of the opposite - when Sentience was first released, the same argument was made...it gave people disincentive to share, and to hoard named items to feed their jewels. Their fears were proven completely justified, because that's just what happened. The only reason people went back to sharing is because they made SXP easier to acquire and people started maxing out their jewels, and thus didnt need to hoard anymore.

However, there's no way people are going to max out their entire gearset with full Reaper bonuses, ever, so this system's effect on coop gameplay wont be ephemeral like Sentience was.

Also, its not about individual players being selfish or generous, at all. No one feels "entitled" to someone else's loot, that's a straw man and a bad-faith argument. The issue is creating a system that discourages sharing on a macro scale...you're not entitled to anyone else's loot, but its nice when someone does pass you something you need and they dont. The chances of that happen fall essentially to zero with this update, because of the active disincentive the devs have made.

[Ganak]

Cost to get Fragments of Reaper Power are excessive at first glance. Having another thing to collect and store is a negative. Would have been better to do some really high mysterious remnant count for turn in or threads, to reinvigorate something already there.



There is something about putting up loot for roll that is good for community, teamwork and positive vibes--i.e. why many play the game.


I love pulling a meaty mythic or reaper bonus item and putting it up for roll. I love putting up for roll because it makes me feel good, and my unabashed self interest has me enjoying other people put up things I can use for roll.



Please consider adding an alternative to this dynamic.

[Airmaiden]

This 0%

We actually have concrete evidence of the opposite - when Sentience was first released, the same argument was made...it gave people disincentive to share, and to hoard named items to feed their jewels. Their fears were proven completely justified, because that's just what happened. The only reason people went back to sharing is because they made SXP easier to acquire and people started maxing out their jewels, and thus didnt need to hoard anymore.

However, there's no way people are going to max out their entire gearset with full Reaper bonuses, ever, so this system's effect on coop gameplay wont be ephemeral like Sentience was.

Also, its not about individual players being selfish or generous, at all. No one feels "entitled" to someone else's loot, that's a straw man and a bad-faith argument. The issue is creating a system that discourages sharing on a macro scale...you're not entitled to anyone else's loot, but its nice when someone does pass you something you need and they dont. The chances of that happen fall essentially to zero with this update, because of the active disincentive the devs have made.

The below statement if false!

However, there's no way people are going to max out their entire gearset with full Reaper bonuses, ever, so this system's effect on coop gameplay wont be ephemeral like Sentience was.



Most of the gear I have on my number 1-3 toons have Reaper/ mythic on them. About 2-3 items on my alts do not have both, but my main has all except 1 (Magewright Goggles).....and they can not even be added to. (when i put them in crafter, it says (no matches found).

[erethizon]

It is not that I am unwilling to share, it is the fact that people seem to feel entitled to something that benefits them even though it didn't drop for them. The game rolls for you, you shouldn't feel like what rolls for me is better for you than me. Perhaps it fits my raid alt. Perhaps I can get benefit from it. Perhaps I can sell it. Entitlement is a bad thing.

I can appreciate that and do agree with you that entitlement is a bad thing.

As a whole, animals are naturally selfish. I'd appreciate it if they designed the game in such a way as to not actively encourage this behavior. The best way to get people to pass gear is to make it completely useless unless you actually want to use it. In other words, no sentient experience and, ideally, no value when sold to a merchant. This would allow even selfish people to pass things simply because the goodwill earned from passing it is worth something and the item is completely worthless otherwise. This game just keeps making more and more steps in the wrong direction and feeding the less helpful parts of natural human psychology.

[Oxarhamar]

I can appreciate that and do agree with you that entitlement is a bad thing.

As a whole, animals are naturally selfish. I'd appreciate it if they designed the game in such a way as to not actively encourage this behavior. The best way to get people to pass gear is to make it completely useless unless you actually want to use it. In other words, no sentient experience and, ideally, no value when sold to a merchant. This would allow even selfish people to pass things simply because the goodwill earned from passing it is worth something and the item is completely worthless otherwise. This game just keeps making more and more steps in the wrong direction and feeding the less helpful parts of natural human psychology.

One of my favorite things to do in the game is pass loot or join loot farm runs just to increase the chances of the item coming up

I agree that this does not rewards sharing is caring gameplay

[Kelledren]

[QUOTE=Ganak;6487653]Cost to get Fragments of Reaper Power are excessive at first glance. Having another thing to collect and store is a negative.

A small part of thinks this might be an attempt to reduce player inventory- right now I save ALL reaper boosted items unless I already have one of the same kind.

But honestly think it would be faster to farm a specific quest on mid skulls and try to get your item to drop with bonus rather than try to pull 100 random items.

[Tilomere]

But honestly think it would be faster to farm a specific quest on mid skulls and try to get your item to drop with bonus rather than try to pull 100 random items.

5% drop rate of item you want x 5% drop rate of reaper bonus on that item x ~10% rate of a rare reaper affix on that reaper bonus = .025% drop rate, will drop once every 4,000 chest/rerolls, at 8/week will be 500 weeks, or roughly ten years. Hahahah. Welcome to DDO, where the drop rates are measured in decades!

So um, reaper stat helms (rare affix) are approximately 1 in 10 reaper hats. Reaper items are approximately 1 in 20. So 100 reaper items (30k SXp worth of reaper items) represents farming 600k SXp worth of items to get materials to craft one reaper item bonus.

At 300 SXp/item and 40% chance of an item per quest on R10 you need to farm 2000 items and 5000 R10 dungeons. 5000 R10 dungeons is 25M RXp.

That should in theory give 100 reaper items, 90 of which are common and worth 1 point, and 10 of which are rare and worth 5 points, which will allow crafting 1.4 reaper affixes of choice. Which means we don't need 5k dungeons, we only need around 3600, or about 16M worth of reaper dungeons at cap.

Ahh it makes sense now from a mathematical point of view. They balanced the crafting and farming of a particular reaper rare affix item that you want to be even.

[blarhblarhblarh]

This is not a terrible mechanic.

The terrible thing is that they didn´t update the quest chain end reward to give players at least one item with reaper so this 100 number could be achievable. Right now it´s not.


100 items with reaper bonus means over 1000 named items that means at least 2k-3k opened chests.

This is for ONE item. It´s worse than slave lords from back in the day. It´s worse than that draconic armor that had random stats after creating it. It´s worse and harder to achieve than six piece green steel set. And the worse of the worse is: The players that can achieve it don´t need it. Or will have over 200 reaper points after finishing this grind.

So congratulations SSG for ending friendship in item pass that used to be one of the best things that united the comunity.

____________
Also that dark light of the moon and vengeance circle looks like the same and there are more than 16 colors in pc these days so please choose a diferent color for it.

[Kelledren]

5% drop rate of item you want x 5% drop rate of reaper bonus on that item x ~10% rate of a rare reaper affix on that reaper bonus = .025% drop rate, will drop once every 4,000 chest/rerolls, at 8/week will be 500 weeks, or roughly ten years. Hahahah.

Tilo- is that last 10% multiplayer for a reaper boosted helm in particular, or new rare reaper affixes (don’t know even what these are yet)? If straight up farming item reaper boosted, not rare affix, then 2.5% not terrible.
As I am unable to talk to vendor (3 characters in mid 30s for rps) I’m not sure if the 100 frags is for rare reaper affixes only.

Thanks

[Peter_Principle]

If you're seeing "people think they own my stuff" or "people want to force me to give away my items that I want" when people are actually saying "players are going to naturally shift behavior in response to the incentives of this new mechanic", it might be time for some self-reflection.