Something is off with the Fey lights epic strike

[makmakkabab]

First of all, there is the discrepancy between the release notes and the in game description, in the release notes it says "Highest of Enchantment or Illusion bonuses", but in game its says based on illusion, no mentioning for enchantment. That being said, my illusion and enchantment bonuses are the same, so I will ignore this for the purpose of this post.

It was already established that the low saves of the goblins in "a sharn welcome" are their "will" saves, and you can land will based spells consistently if your DC is in the high 60's on EE. my enchantment and illusion bonuses are 28, my charisma modifier is 31. so the DC should be 20+28+31=79.

Regardless of the mobs weak will saves, because this spell supposedly rolls 3 saves for each effect (so it rolls 1 of each will, fortitude and reflex), I would expect that at least 1 of the effects will land most of the times. So, I went to test it in "A sharn welcome" and rarely landed the spell. those goblins saved most of the time. Same with the other quest in part 1 sharn, mobs rolled saves on all 3 effects. Is there a known issue with this spell that I am not aware of?

[SpartanKiller13]

First of all, there is the discrepancy between the release notes and the in game description, in the release notes it says "Highest of Enchantment or Illusion bonuses", but in game its says based on illusion, no mentioning for enchantment. That being said, my illusion and enchantment bonuses are the same, so I will ignore this for the purpose of this post.

Is there a known issue with this spell that I am not aware of?

First part is known, #11 on the list (link). Was supposed to be fixed in U51.1 per Steelstar (see here) but still hasn't been, or the text hasn't been.

There's also #192 that says it has outdated graphics icon, not sure if that's still true or not.

As far as the actual DC, that's not a known issue AFAIK. Can you establish the actual DC? Maybe in lower level quests or with a buddy in PvP, maybe there's some part of the DC calculation that isn't being added. Maybe the enemies you were testing against are just blind by accident

[makmakkabab]

First part is known, #11 on the list (link). Was supposed to be fixed in U51.1 per Steelstar (see here) but still hasn't been, or the text hasn't been.

There's also #192 that says it has outdated graphics icon, not sure if that's still true or not.

As far as the actual DC, that's not a known issue AFAIK. Can you establish the actual DC? Maybe in lower level quests or with a buddy in PvP, maybe there's some part of the DC calculation that isn't being added. Maybe the enemies you were testing against are just blind by accident

Even if they are inherently blind, I wouldn't expect them to roll a save against the effect

As for testing it, well, gonna need to find a buddy on Orien, Past experience taught me people aren't enthusiastic about helping to test things. It usually comes down to the need of begging and crying

[makmakkabab]

Ok, I am completely baffled by this. I went in EE "No Refunds". Spell landed fine. Went back to "A Sharn Welcome" spell failed completely...

[Brac]

I think your are right that there is something wrong with it, but I do not know what. When the update hit I tried it out on my DC caster with enchantment DCs over 100, and it almost never hit. I gave up after a couple quests and specced out of it. I just put it on the list of useless abilities to avoid.

[Akisohida]

Ok, I am completely baffled by this. I went in EE "No Refunds". Spell landed fine. Went back to "A Sharn Welcome" spell failed completely...

Sounds almost like the goblin's saves are too high.

[makmakkabab]

Sounds almost like the goblin's saves are too high.

Except that I was able to land Mass Hold on them...

[makmakkabab]

Ok, so last observation, it seems that the Boromar and daask in sharn constantly saving against Fey Lights, but they are not saving against what should be 1 DC lower Mass hold monster. there are other creatures that I couldn't land the spell, like the sea creatures in "Lost At Sea" and some others there. I think the forgewraiths also gave some problem, not sure. Constructs like the Canon and security ball droids were immune to this spell (are they not considered constructs for the purpose of this spell?), Going to spec out of it, unreliable spell.

Edit:

Made some changes, took greater color spray from feydark, went in to "A Sharn Welcome" to make sure there isn't a problem with this spell as well, works great, lands on everything it should.

Fey Lights epic strike is broken.

[archest]

First of all, there is the discrepancy between the release notes and the in game description, in the release notes it says "Highest of Enchantment or Illusion bonuses", but in game its says based on illusion, no mentioning for enchantment. That being said, my illusion and enchantment bonuses are the same, so I will ignore this for the purpose of this post.

It was already established that the low saves of the goblins in "a sharn welcome" are their "will" saves, and you can land will based spells consistently if your DC is in the high 60's on EE. my enchantment and illusion bonuses are 28, my charisma modifier is 31. so the DC should be 20+28+31=79.

Regardless of the mobs weak will saves, because this spell supposedly rolls 3 saves for each effect (so it rolls 1 of each will, fortitude and reflex), I would expect that at least 1 of the effects will land most of the times. So, I went to test it in "A sharn welcome" and rarely landed the spell. those goblins saved most of the time. Same with the other quest in part 1 sharn, mobs rolled saves on all 3 effects. Is there a known issue with this spell that I am not aware of?

making sure they haven't been given a protection from evil spell by examining the goblins?
(which make them immune to enchantment & mind controlling spells)

[makmakkabab]

making sure they haven't been given a protection from evil spell by examining the goblins?
(which make them immune to enchantment & mind controlling spells)

I haven't examined them, but I was able to land mass hold and greater color spray.

[magaiti]

making sure they haven't been given a protection from evil spell by examining the goblins?
(which make them immune to enchantment & mind controlling spells)

PFE is supposed to protect against compulsions from evil creatures.
Players are not evil.

[MacDubh]

...
Players are not evil.

Are we sure?

[archest]

I haven't examined them, but I was able to land mass hold and greater color spray.

they have a spell resistance check

Fey is only a will save no information on if it too has a SR check

[J1NG]

PFE is supposed to protect against compulsions from evil creatures.
Players are not evil.

Might be on Tabletop, but in DDO, I believe it's protected regardless of alignment. And the AC portion is the only part that checks for alignment.

J1NG

[J1NG]

Quick tests in PvP suggest the following:

Daze = Will Save (Counts as Spell and Enchantment for Save Bonus)
Blind = REFLEX Save (Only Reflex Save bonus, no bonus found at moment)
Silence = REFLEX Save (Counted as a Spell and Enchantment for Save Bonus)

So that's why your DCs are not landing, because you're trying to attack something that has high reflex saves.

J1NG

:: edit ::

Updated the save bonus found on each of the effects.

[makmakkabab]

Quick tests in PvP suggest the following:

Daze = Will Save
Blind = REFLEX Save (Only Reflex Save bonus, no bonus found at moment)
Silence = REFLEX Save (Counted as a Spell and Enchantment for Save Bonus)

So that's why your DCs are not landing, because you're trying to attack something that has high reflex saves.

J1NG

That can't be the only reason. The Daze effect should be landing, it lands for Greater Color Spray, other will based enchantment land also, but daze from "fey lights" isn't landing - there is 3 saves above the goblin heads, so they are saving vs all effects.

The daze effect is the most important effect on that spell, the end upgrade change it to stun, and the main CC reason for taking it.

[J1NG]

That can't be the only reason. The Daze effect should be landing, it lands for Greater Color Spray, other will based enchantment land also, but daze from "fey lights" isn't landing - there is 3 saves above the goblin heads, so they are saving vs all effects.

The daze effect is the most important effect on that spell, the end upgrade change it to stun, and the main CC reason for taking it.

Just for you, I spent more plat (thankfully only 50k plat this time) so I could do the test further, and this is the following:

Stun = FORTITUDE Save (Counts as Spell and Enchantment effect for save bonus)

So yes, the upgrade trades in Will Save Daze, to a Fortitude Save Stun. That's why it's failing for you, because Fortitude and Reflex saves are high on those Goblins.

J1NG

[makmakkabab]

Just for you, I spent more plat (thankfully only 50k plat this time) so I could do the test further, and this is the following:

Stun = FORTITUDE Save (Counts as Spell and Enchantment effect for save bonus)

So yes, the upgrade trades in Will Save Daze, to a Fortitude Save Stun. That's why it's failing for you, because Fortitude and Reflex saves are high on those Goblins.

J1NG

Thanks a lot for clearing up this issue, much appreciated. So you already exposed 1 bug as far as I understand it, since 1 of the 2 reflex saves should be fortitude, I assume blind. Also, could have been nice if the devs clarified that the will save turns into fortitude when upgraded (if it actually supposed too).

Conclusion

If taking fey lights, only upgrade to 2nd tier. ignore the upgrade to stun.

[J1NG]

Thanks a lot for clearing up this issue, much appreciated. So you already exposed 1 bug as far as I understand it, since 1 of the 2 reflex saves should be fortitude, I assume blind. Also, could have been nice if the devs clarified that the will save turns into fortitude when upgraded (if it actually supposed too).

Conclusion

If taking fey lights, only upgrade to 2nd tier. ignore the upgrade to stun.

Well, at least with this information this steers this conversation with any Dev from "Is this bugged?" to "Is this WAI?". This is a step further down getting any fixes done at least if fixes are needed.

Personally, I am unsure if it is bugged, as Greater Colour Spray has been funny on the saves as well back when I was doing tests for that too. So... It's anyones guess at the moment, so it really does need a Dev to chime in to clarify.

J1NG

[leesun]

PFE is supposed to protect against compulsions from evil creatures.
Players are not evil.

In DDO I have:

Killed clerics of the Sovereign Host who were giving aid to the homeless, as well as their congregation of downtrodden
Committed genocide against a tribe of drow
Slain multiple dragons who were studying dragonshards and the "prophecy" to find a way to save the world
Summoned the Daelkyr Lord of Eyes to the prime material world
Refused to pet the pseudodragon in Under the Cover of Darkness