An Alternative approach to Platinum ED resets

[Marshal_Lannes]

During the course of a meeting, I'm sure it was suggested that platinum could acquire some value again by tieing ED resets to the currency. And there is nothing particularly wrong with giving platinum value again. In theory, this would stimulate the auction economy. However, there are a few barriers in place that inhibit this - platinum spent on ED is "lost" in that it doesn't circulate back into the game and many (most) modern loot items are all BTA limiting products that can even be transacted.

How could this be addressed? An easy method would be to simply increase the platinum cap. The current cap has been in place for many years. Pushing it up a million wouldn't be out of line and would keep pace with inflation. I understand the reasoning behind a platinum cap - it prevents Eberron Amazon from being formed where a small number of players could acquire huge fortunes and then control the auction house. I don't think giving everyone a 20% boost to their cap would devolve into that. Another method would be to recognize that players will want to reset their EDs, perhaps quite often. Currently, players are allowed to donate platinum to their guild where it collects in a guild bank. Couldn't we have an ED bank for our characters where each of them could make deposits and then when one of them resets an ED they can take the funds out of that savings?

Having ED flexibility is something worth paying for so I understand the cost associated with it. In order to accommodate this design though, it would help out the player base if one of these methods were enacted. This would make changing EDs easier while still allowing for the cost and presumed design philosophy behind them.

[AlcoArgo]

platinum spent on ED is "lost" in that it doesn't circulate back into the game

Yes, that is the point of a platinum sink. There is far too much plat in the game right now because it is far too easy to get.

How could this be addressed? An easy method would be to simply increase the platinum cap. The current cap has been in place for many years. Pushing it up a million wouldn't be out of line and would keep pace with inflation. I understand the reasoning behind a platinum cap - it prevents Eberron Amazon from being formed where a small number of players could acquire huge fortunes and then control the auction house.

That has nothing to do with the platinum cap. There is a cap because that is the highest number an unsigned 4 byte integer can hold (or whatever data type they used - not sure which ). Plus, if I recall correctly, all money is stored as CP and then converted so in essence the plat cap is the largest number of CP you can get. That means one can't arbitrarily raise the plat cap to a bigger number without rearranging the entire code base.

[pjw]

The problem with the current ones is that they are deeply UN-FUN.

How about one or more of:

• 1M plat = 1 "Loot Rune"; 20 runes gets you non-raid named item of choice, for which you own the content.
• 1M plat = 10 Raid Runes (assuming you own the raid and have run it)
• 2M Plat = any sub-20 augment; 4 M plat = any non-named augment
• 0.5M plat = (non-store) scroll of your choice

None of these would break the game and all would be useful.

[Oxarhamar]

During the course of a meeting, I'm sure it was suggested that platinum could acquire some value again by tieing ED resets to the currency. And there is nothing particularly wrong with giving platinum value again. In theory, this would stimulate the auction economy. However, there are a few barriers in place that inhibit this - platinum spent on ED is "lost" in that it doesn't circulate back into the game and many (most) modern loot items are all BTA limiting products that can even be transacted.

How could this be addressed? An easy method would be to simply increase the platinum cap. The current cap has been in place for many years. Pushing it up a million wouldn't be out of line and would keep pace with inflation. I understand the reasoning behind a platinum cap - it prevents Eberron Amazon from being formed where a small number of players could acquire huge fortunes and then control the auction house. I don't think giving everyone a 20% boost to their cap would devolve into that. Another method would be to recognize that players will want to reset their EDs, perhaps quite often. Currently, players are allowed to donate platinum to their guild where it collects in a guild bank. Couldn't we have an ED bank for our characters where each of them could make deposits and then when one of them resets an ED they can take the funds out of that savings?

Having ED flexibility is something worth paying for so I understand the cost associated with it. In order to accommodate this design though, it would help out the player base if one of these methods were enacted. This would make changing EDs easier while still allowing for the cost and presumed design philosophy behind them.

No using platinum for ED reset doesn't give it value

Having platinum for ED reset enforcement of the use of shards to bypass that is all

[Marshal_Lannes]

No using platinum for ED reset doesn't give it value

Of course, it does. People need Plat for ED resets.

[Oxarhamar]

Of course, it does. People need Plat for ED resets.

No it doesn't matter if people need plat for ED reset

for plat to have value there needs to be a rich tradeable loot economy there are fewer and fewer tradable and more bta & btc loot which helps insure that anything tradable of value is overpriced on the AH if it's not on the shard exchange

Plat reset & plat reset increased with each each use is about shard reset

[Dejvid]

there should be no plat reset cost at all!

i watched one vid of preach regarding an interview with the wow producer and one point was about respeccing their "covenant" (i think those are some form of allegiances, but they have their own talent trees each), and he made a really valid point. a cost (wheter time or money) is just outdated and does nothing for the player but to inconvenience them. and the last thing you want is a game that is supposed to be fun to be an inconveniance. he had a much more colourfull language, but his point is spot on.
the respec cost does absolutely nothing for the player. the new destinies are to be experimented with, to buildcraft, to try things new, but the game actievely hinders me by putting in some stop sign in form of a cost in front of me. thats not fun.
and the shard cost is the main culprit why theres a platinum cost in the first place.

no amount of cap raising would change that.
player fun comes second, and mobile games monetizations creep evermore into the design philosophy.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I don't think the reset should be completely free. Then you'd run into situations where players would want to respec constantly leading to delays in gaming. I could see this happening in raids for example. Some people would use this as a workaround for twists. I think the idea to give platinum value again is a solid one and they've done that here. But tweaks could be made as suggested above. I didn't really follow the Lammania changes after the first preview because of all the unfounded doom but I wonder if this was ever brought up there? Or was the price tag to reset an 11th-hour addition?

[anticlimax]

The problem isn't completely the increasing cost, it's also the way that the respec functions.

Most respecs only involve changing a couple of points spent but always require the cost of resetting the whole tree. This leads to massive spiralling bills when in reality it should only have cost a few k plat.

Enhancements really need an edit option that tracks the change of setup so that the cost reflects the actual change rather than the somewhat arbitrary value of the entire points spend in a whole tree.

[Hawkwier]

I don't think the reset should be completely free. Then you'd run into situations where players would want to respec constantly leading to delays in gaming. I could see this happening in raids for example. Some people would use this as a workaround for twists. I think the idea to give platinum value again is a solid one and they've done that here. But tweaks could be made as suggested above. I didn't really follow the Lammania changes after the first preview because of all the unfounded doom but I wonder if this was ever brought up there? Or was the price tag to reset an 11th-hour addition?

More absolute nonsense from my perspective. Cost isn't the critical factor or barrier in on the fly changes now, time is. Nobody with much sense is going to ask everyone to hang about whilst they completely redo their destinies. 2 or 3 folks doing that would use more time than they'd spend in quests. Nobody I ran with did that before either, and they didn't have to. Whilst pre-U51 I was happy to ask for a few minutes to switch out an ED for tanking a raid or two that help the group, it simply takes too long now. Case in point this morning where we didn't have a tank for a raid, so instead ran a lower difficulty.

And even if it were the case, what is so wrong in your head with folks having a work-around for twists anyway?

Trying to recover the flexibility lost in U51 should be commended. I just wish it were more practicable, for me, at least.

Making resets free for a period until this mess has been properly patched over the next month or two would be entirely sensible. The idea that everyone will run around constantly re-speccing as a result is a chimera.

But a return of flexibility to this system would definitely be a positive. Right now, it's rubbish.

[Dejvid]

I don't think the reset should be completely free. Then you'd run into situations where players would want to respec constantly leading to delays in gaming. I could see this happening in raids for example. Some people would use this as a workaround for twists. I think the idea to give platinum value again is a solid one and they've done that here. But tweaks could be made as suggested above. I didn't really follow the Lammania changes after the first preview because of all the unfounded doom but I wonder if this was ever brought up there? Or was the price tag to reset an 11th-hour addition?

why? you cannot respec in quests/raids, so there would be no downtime or delays while playing. leaving a quest would lead to exp penalty or whatever.
right now i get a huge delay by having to farm platinum to do a respec. oh but i cannot farm effectievly in lower difficulty quests because i get chest ransack. bravo.

what we have here now is a catch22. they cannot remove the platinum cost because then the astral shard option would be pointless. and they cannot remove the astral shard option because that would cut in potentional revenue. so the cost will remain high to justify the shard option. money talks after all.
it should have never been implemented in the first place. but someone saw the potential to monetize it, now that they are giving the destinies away for "free", and another anti-consumer implementation was born.

what they should do now is scratch the whole respec cost, have it on a 30minute timer or something like that to "prevent delays in gaming", and let players just enjoy the da** game. they already made it more casual friendly, which i applaud them to, but then things like this just blow all the goodwill earned away. again...

[Oxarhamar]

I don't think the reset should be completely free. Then you'd run into situations where players would want to respec constantly leading to delays in gaming. I could see this happening in raids for example. Some people would use this as a workaround for twists. I think the idea to give platinum value again is a solid one and they've done that here. But tweaks could be made as suggested above. I didn't really follow the Lammania changes after the first preview because of all the unfounded doom but I wonder if this was ever brought up there? Or was the price tag to reset an 11th-hour addition?

Yeah you are going hyperbolic on this

Swapping old EDs and twists was completely free

players didn’t swap constantly they found a ED build that worked for them in general & swapped for the rare occasions when something different was needed

Maybe you should have followed on preview instead of guessing there has been a lot of solid feedback that you over generalize to dismiss as doom

This loss of flexibility in the EDs, twists & the high cost was just one of those issues

The idea does not give platinum value

[Wahnsinnig]

there should be no plat reset cost at all!

i watched one vid of preach regarding an interview with the wow producer and one point was about respeccing their "covenant" (i think those are some form of allegiances, but they have their own talent trees each), and he made a really valid point. a cost (wheter time or money) is just outdated and does nothing for the player but to inconvenience them. and the last thing you want is a game that is supposed to be fun to be an inconveniance. he had a much more colourfull language, but his point is spot on.
the respec cost does absolutely nothing for the player. the new destinies are to be experimented with, to buildcraft, to try things new, but the game actievely hinders me by putting in some stop sign in form of a cost in front of me. thats not fun.
and the shard cost is the main culprit why theres a platinum cost in the first place.

no amount of cap raising would change that.
player fun comes second, and mobile games monetizations creep evermore into the design philosophy.

So much this. The plat cost is just annoying and frustrating to players and ruins the fun for a player that has to reset because mistakes where made or just want to try different things in a completely new system.

SSG need to think long and hard on this and what they want the game to be. It should be fun, not annoying.

[songswrath]

yes we need plat sinks , reaper wings made plat useful again
what i would do is this unlockable vender via coin lord favor
that offers a choice of
1 random raid runes no more than stacks of 10 and make it costly or trade one rune type for a different kind of thing < this option can be iffy , 2 potions of heal, harm and resto , 3 low tier potions of renown, exp , slayer

[SpartanKiller13]

The problem isn't completely the increasing cost, it's also the way that the respec functions.

Most respecs only involve changing a couple of points spent but always require the cost of resetting the whole tree. This leads to massive spiralling bills when in reality it should only have cost a few k plat.

Enhancements really need an edit option that tracks the change of setup so that the cost reflects the actual change rather than the somewhat arbitrary value of the entire points spend in a whole tree.

This I think is the best approach.

It costs the same to empty/redo a tree vs removing one point from it. That's pretty lame when you realize you're one point short just after you finish locking everything in lol.

[erethizon]

More absolute nonsense from my perspective. Cost isn't the critical factor or barrier in on the fly changes now, time is. Nobody with much sense is going to ask everyone to hang about whilst they completely redo their destinies. 2 or 3 folks doing that would use more time than they'd spend in quests.

When I do an Epic Reincarnation it takes me less than a minute to spend 88 AP in the 4 trees I use. Redoing Epic Destinies between raids would be very easy and take almost no time once you know what your builds are. There is a certain delay between raids anyway as you wait for each person to get to the new raid (and often times replace one person with another) so the time factor would rarely be an issue at all (unless the person respeccing doesn't know their build and is slowly reading everything while they spend their points).

[Marshal_Lannes]

Case in point this morning where we didn't have a tank for a raid, so instead ran a lower difficulty.

And even if it were the case, what is so wrong in your head with folks having a work-around for twists anyway?
.

The first part I view is working as intended. People need to realize the game supports a vast array of difficulties. It's alright to lower the difficulty if you can't handle the quest. The second part is that we've moved away from twists. Those are no longer in the design philosophy. We don't need people gaming the system and creating workarounds.

Revitalizing the DDO economy is a good thing. The two most popular uses of platinum - ED resets and Reaper wings get grief on these forums because they are desirable items people want for free. Desirable items drive economies. They cost money. In this case platinum. Which you earn. It's good to see platinum have value again.

I do agree that for high-end players most ED resets involve only switching around a few points as abilities are tested out. A certain grace period for ED experimentation should have been put in but that ship has sailed unless we get a Christmas week ED free moment.

[Oxarhamar]

The first part I view is working as intended. People need to realize the game supports a vast array of difficulties. It's alright to lower the difficulty if you can't handle the quest. The second part is that we've moved away from twists. Those are no longer in the design philosophy. We don't need people gaming the system and creating workarounds.

Revitalizing the DDO economy is a good thing. The two most popular uses of platinum - ED resets and Reaper wings get grief on these forums because they are desirable items people want for free. Desirable items drive economies. They cost money. In this case platinum. Which you earn. It's good to see platinum have value again.

I do agree that for high-end players most ED resets involve only switching around a few points as abilities are tested out. A certain grace period for ED experimentation should have been put in but that ship has sailed unless we get a Christmas week ED free moment.

What drives economies is not plat sinks but tradeable loot

Having plat sinks don't make platinum have value when there is limited else to trade for it

Situational swapping of EDs and twists is not gaming the system it was a strength the more flexible design had built in

Temporarily reduced costs would be great for helping players feel out the new system but it would do nothing as a long term solution to the issue

[Dejvid]

revitalizing the ddo economy would be sunsetting the shard exchange and letting players trade in one currency, that way platinum would have a real value again and you could justify sinks like respec costs and whatnot. not this 2-class system we have right now.

but since platinum is pretty much worthless, as astral shards are the more valuable currency, all the respec cost does is add busywork for the sake of it.

its like a mobile game. go grind something to fill up that stamina bar to be able to enjoy the game again. or pay some macrotransactions.

[Certon]

It's absolutely ridiculous as it stands. ED resets should be free for the foreseeable future, as veterans need time to learn the new system and convert their characters over. I've already shelled out millions of plat for a GAME MECHANIC. Forget the real world money I've had to use to buy skill tomes because when LR'ing my characters, I screwed up on skill allocations for feats like Greater Single Weapon Fighting. Reconstructing older, incredibly nuanced characters requires more than just handing in the heart and clicking reincarnate. Stats have to be allocated correctly and feats need to be chosen at the right levels or when the right class is leveling, or you could seriously mess up everything you're trying to reconstruct because they decided to "switch things up." This legerdemain we have to perform to clean up THEIR mess is beyond the pale.

Beyond playtesting my builds and tweaking them, I've done no actual PLAYING of the game. Just running through EE quests, seeing what works and what doesn't, resetting my ED's and sometimes Enhancements, and repeating the process.

In my opinion, they should have left the broken feats like Dire Charge in the game, but not selectable at level up, so that legacy players could enjoy it as long as they didn't Reincarnate in any form, and NOT handed out Lesser Hearts AT ALL. Then it would have just been a simple matter of redoing EDs and MOVING on.