Bearbarian Level Split?

[Kodwraith]

What's the recommended Shifter Iconic Bear melee level split these days? I'm after the druid PL.

I've seen 13 Druid / 6 Barb / 1 FVS, 15 Druid / 5 Barb and 12 Barb / 3 Druid / 5 Cleric.

I'm partial to the 15/5 vs 16/4 but I guess the split is Ravager core 3 vs 8th level spells.

Are there any other breakpoints to be aware of?

[unbongwah]

I've seen them run the gamut from druid 18 / barbarian 2 to druid 3 (bear form + Natural Fighting feats) / cleric 6 (Blessing of Silvanus) / barbarian 11 (Greater Rage) to whatever you call this split. So it really depends on what you want from your build.

[magaiti]

Shifter Iconic (Razorclaw) is an Eberron race, so Sylvanus out of the question.

1 barb for +10% movement speed
2 barb for Blood Tribute and Barbarian Damage Reduction 3%
4 barb for uncanny dodge
5 barb for barbarian T5
8 barb for Improved Uncanny Dodge

1 cleric/FvS for Divine Might
1 FvS for Divine Will
5 cleric for 2nd domain power (animal domain for extra hp is most popular)
7 FvS for Stout of Heart

3 druid for Bear form and Natural Fighting Feats
4 druid for Nature Warrior T4 (Fatal Harrier, Ferocity)
8 druid for Dire Bear form (+2 CON, +20% Strikethrough)
12 druid for Nature Warrior core 4 (+1 crit multi, doesn't stack with FB T5)

My choice would be:
12 druid / 8 barb, T5 in ravager, T4 in NW (Flight stacks with Improved Uncanny Dodge, for +70% uncapped dodge)
no trance while leveling, KtA on cap if you want to stay there for a while (so put some points in INT)
AP(80): 34 Ravager, 27 NW, 8 NP, 11 Vistani or FB

[jskinner937]

What's the recommended Shifter Iconic Bear melee level split these days? I'm after the druid PL.

I've seen 13 Druid / 6 Barb / 1 FVS, 15 Druid / 5 Barb and 12 Barb / 3 Druid / 5 Cleric.

I'm partial to the 15/5 vs 16/4 but I guess the split is Ravager core 3 vs 8th level spells.

Are there any other breakpoints to be aware of?

15/5 is pretty solid with ED revamp, and you still get 8th level spells, just lose one slot. You can grab the Draconic ED cast while raged (T2) or Shifter (T3), although you lose uncanny dodge. High wisdom with earthquake and t4 falconry might even be a consideration with rage casting. Although the DC is going to be weak and then your tremor may suffer.

[jskinner937]

What's the recommended Shifter Iconic Bear melee level split these days? I'm after the druid PL.

I've seen 13 Druid / 6 Barb / 1 FVS, 15 Druid / 5 Barb and 12 Barb / 3 Druid / 5 Cleric.

I'm partial to the 15/5 vs 16/4 but I guess the split is Ravager core 3 vs 8th level spells.

Are there any other breakpoints to be aware of?

If you are doing Druid PL then go Normal Shifter. Shifter gets casting while raged, while razorclaw does not.

[Hobgoblin]

If you are doing Druid PL then go Normal Shifter. Shifter gets casting while raged, while razorclaw does not.

druid gets it too no? like t4 np?

[magaiti]

druid gets it too no? like t4 np?

Barbearian builds usually don't get that high in NP. They spend majority of their AP in a Barbarian tree for T5, and in Nature Warrior for T4.
NP usually gets 8-9 AP for stance and +10 melee power in rage

[jskinner937]

Barbearian builds usually don't get that high in NP. They spend majority of their AP in a Barbarian tree for T5, and in Nature Warrior for T4.
NP usually gets 8-9 AP for stance and +10 melee power in rage

Not to mention the shifter and draconic version work with everything, inluding scrolls. Although you must shift out of animal form to use scrolls.

[SouCarioca]

What's the recommended Shifter Iconic Bear melee level split these days? I'm after the druid PL.

I've seen 13 Druid / 6 Barb / 1 FVS, 15 Druid / 5 Barb and 12 Barb / 3 Druid / 5 Cleric.

I'm partial to the 15/5 vs 16/4 but I guess the split is Ravager core 3 vs 8th level spells.

Are there any other breakpoints to be aware of?

Here is one I am doing now: 11 Barb / 8 Druid / 1 FvS


Character name: Barbear
Classes: 11 Barbarian, 10 Epic, 8 Druid, 1 Favored Soul
Race: Dwarf · · · · · · · ·Alignment: Neutral

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · 18· · 8 · ·34 · · ·HP:· · · · 691 · · ·AC:· · 66
Dex:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·PRR: · · · ·47
Con:· · 16· · 8 · ·26 · · ·MRR: · · · · 9 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 20
Int:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·Dodge: · ·4/25 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · ·0
Wis:· · 14· · 8 · ·22 · · ·Fort:· · ·100% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · ·0
Cha:· · ·8· · 8 · ·16 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 22
DR: 6%
Immunities:

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Barbarian(1)· · ·Standard: Power Attack
2 · · Barbarian(2)· · ·
3 · · Druid(1)· · · · ·Standard: Dodge
4 · · Favored Soul(1) ·Follower of Faith: Follower of the Sovereign Host
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Druid(2)· · · · ·Druid Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Bear
6 · · Druid(3)· · · · ·Standard: Natural Fighting
7 · · Barbarian(3)· · ·
8 · · Barbarian(4)· · ·Strength: +1 Level up
9 · · Druid(4)· · · · ·Standard: Mobility
10· · Druid(5)· · · · ·Druid Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Wolf
11· · Druid(6)· · · · ·
12· · Druid(7)· · · · ·Standard: Natural Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Druid(8)· · · · ·Druid Wild Shape: Wild Shape: Dire Bear
14· · Barbarian(5)· · ·
15· · Barbarian(6)· · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
16· · Barbarian(7)· · ·Strength: +1 Level up
17· · Barbarian(8)· · ·
18· · Barbarian(9)· · ·Standard: Natural Fighting
19· · Barbarian(10) · ·
20· · Barbarian(11) · ·Strength: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Empty Feat Slot
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Empty Feat Slot
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Empty Feat Slot

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frenzied Berserker - Points spent: 33
1 Core ·(1) Die Hard
2 Tier1 (1) Cracking Attack
3 Tier1 (1) Cracking Attack
4 Tier1 (1) Cracking Attack
5 Tier1 (1) Extra Rage
6 Tier1 (1) Extra Rage
7 Tier2 (1) Blood Tribute
8 Tier2 (1) Blood Tribute
9 Core ·(1) Frenzied Toughness I
10 Tier2 (1) Blood Tribute
11 Tier2 (1) Body Blow
12 Tier2 (1) Body Blow
13 Tier2 (1) Body Blow
14 Core ·(1) Frenzy
15 Tier1 (2) Power Rage
16 Tier1 (2) Power Rage
17 Tier1 (2) Power Rage
18 Tier3 (2) Constitution I
19 Tier4 (2) Constitution II
20 Tier4 (1) Crazy Strike
21 Tier4 (1) Crazy Strike
22 Tier4 (1) Crazy Strike
23 Tier1 (1) Athletics
24 Tier1 (1) Athletics
25 Tier1 (1) Athletics
26 Tier5 (1) Focused Wrath
27 Tier5 (1) Focused Wrath
28 Tier5 (1) Healing or Hurt: Raging Blows
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nature's Warrior - Points spent: 26
1 Core ·(1) Natural Adept
2 Tier1 (1) Extra Wild Empathy
3 Tier1 (1) Extra Wild Empathy
4 Tier1 (1) Extra Wild Empathy
5 Tier1 (1) Bestial Nature
6 Tier2 (1) Flight
7 Tier2 (1) Flight
8 Tier2 (1) Flight
9 Tier2 (1) Brother Wolf
10 Tier2 (1) Brother Wolf
11 Tier2 (1) Brother Wolf
12 Tier3 (1) Fight
13 Tier3 (1) Fight
14 Tier3 (1) Fight
15 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
16 Tier1 (1) Bestial Nature
17 Tier2 (1) Improved Dodge
18 Tier2 (1) Improved Dodge
19 Tier2 (1) Improved Dodge
20 Tier4 (1) Fatal Harrier
21 Tier4 (1) Ferocity
22 Tier4 (1) Ferocity
23 Tier4 (1) Ferocity
24 Tier4 (1) Fatal Harrier
25 Tier4 (1) Fatal Harrier
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nature's Protector - Points spent: 9
1 Core ·(1) ature's Protector
2 Tier1 (1) Rage of the Beast
3 Tier1 (1) Rage of the Beast
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Nature's Defense I: Enchanted Defense
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Nature's Defense I: Enchanted Defense
6 Tier2 (1) Primal Beast
7 Tier2 (1) Primal Beast
8 Core ·(1) Nature's Defense
9 Tier1 (1) Improved Nature's Defense I: Enchanted Defense
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
War Soul - Points spent: 4
1 Core ·(1) Smite Foe: Smite Foe (Melee)
2 Tier1 (1) Divine Might: Divine Will
3 Tier1 (1) Divine Might: Divine Will
4 Tier1 (1) Divine Might: Divine Will
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vistani Knife Fighter - Points spent: 8
1 Core ·(1) Knife Expertise
2 Tier1 (2) Mist Stalker I
3 Tier1 (1) Undead Hunter
4 Tier1 (1) Acrobatic
5 Tier2 (1) Haste Boost
6 Tier2 (1) Haste Boost
7 Tier2 (1) Haste Boost
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[blarhblarhblarh]

Just did 3 for the shifter past life all using frenzied berserker. Will rank it.

15 druid 5 barbarian. Very strong and get one of the best heals from barb. Most usefull for raids and good CC for high reapers.
1 fvs 4 druid 15 barbarian. Actual build. Great damage but don´t survive like the uper one. Damage is very close.
Barbarian 5 fighter 15 - just to be sure. Damage is close, a bit more prr but the bear feels more tanky because of CC and heals.

It really depends on the gameplay but all worked fine. Easy r1-r4 leveling (in update 51) with EA healing mantle (11 points there, rest goes to fury of the wild for adrenaline) and an epic SOS. All would be better with a half orc for dps or dwarf/aasimar for more tankness. Dwarf for con based and aasimar for wis based.

So get ready with your worst bear puns list cause it´s hard to say no to a melee bear these days.

[jskinner937]

Just did 3 for the shifter past life all using frenzied berserker. Will rank it.

15 druid 5 barbarian. Very strong and get one of the best heals from barb. Most usefull for raids and good CC for high reapers.
1 fvs 4 druid 15 barbarian. Actual build. Great damage but don´t survive like the uper one. Damage is very close.
Barbarian 5 fighter 15 - just to be sure. Damage is close, a bit more prr but the bear feels more tanky because of CC and heals.

It really depends on the gameplay but all worked fine. Easy r1-r4 leveling (in update 51) with EA healing mantle (11 points there, rest goes to fury of the wild for adrenaline) and an epic SOS. All would be better with a half orc for dps or dwarf/aasimar for more tankness. Dwarf for con based and aasimar for wis based.

So get ready with your worst bear puns list cause it´s hard to say no to a melee bear these days.

Did you notice cleave and greater cleave a bit disappointing on your build? I did 15/5 with razorclaw a few lives and it sucks to lose cast while rage, but I am suspecting THF and Emp Healing would be better than Cleave, Great Cleave with the extra feats available.

[SouCarioca]

Did you notice cleave and greater cleave a bit disappointing on your build? I did 15/5 with razorclaw a few lives and it sucks to lose cast while rage, but I am suspecting THF and Emp Healing would be better than Cleave, Great Cleave with the extra feats available.

The veterans I consulted on my BarBearian build all agreed that cleave in any shape or form is a DPS loser, and while it may be useful early on while leveling up, your big hits will be from just Strikethrough and a two-handed weapon. With a bear that means Natural Weapon Fighting taken 3x. As to casting, though my build does not use it, you can bypass this with the Natural Protector perk "Beast Awakened: You can now cast druidic magic while raging." though it is a Tier 4, so plan accordingly if this is important to you as it means 22AP to get it in this branch. Note that if you use Heavy Armor, as you are focusing on melee, you'll still have to contend with spell failure as with any caster.

[Kodwraith]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

blarh,
On the 15/5 split do you just put 24 AP in NP until you pick up the Cast while raged from draconic at 23ish?

[jskinner937]

The veterans I consulted on my BarBearian build all agreed that cleave in any shape or form is a DPS loser, and while it may be useful early on while leveling up, your big hits will be from just Strikethrough and a two-handed weapon. With a bear that means Natural Weapon Fighting taken 3x. As to casting, though my build does not use it, you can bypass this with the Natural Protector perk "Beast Awakened: You can now cast druidic magic while raging." though it is a Tier 4, so plan accordingly if this is important to you as it means 22AP to get it in this branch. Note that if you use Heavy Armor, as you are focusing on melee, you'll still have to contend with spell failure as with any caster.

Yeah agree about cleaves from my own experience. But you can get rage while cast from regular shifter race and now draconic ED. Which is why I find the 15/5 split better all around. Very difficult to spend in natures protector, considering you want tier 5 ravager (or frenzy) and core 4 from Natures Warrior.

[jskinner937]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

blarh,
On the 15/5 split do you just put 24 AP in NP until you pick up the Cast while raged from draconic at 23ish?

See my previous response. Personally I would ignore natures protector. If you aren’t a regular shifter, just wait until EDs. Leveling its hard to beat Ravager tier 5 for blood strength and the 4th core in natures warrior is boss as well. Go 34 pts ravager first, then spend the 21 in natures warrior then can pick up whatever other goodies you want after but that is how I would prioritize.

[magaiti]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

blarh,
On the 15/5 split do you just put 24 AP in NP until you pick up the Cast while raged from draconic at 23ish?

Not sure how you want to play your build, but I'd go full melee (so not sure bout spending DP in Draconic or casting while in combat at all):
34 Ravager (Blood Strength, 2/2 Critical Rage),
27 Nature's Warrior (4th core, 3/3 Harrier, 3/3 Ferocity)
11 Vistani (3rd code, Haste Boost)
8 Nature's Protector (stance, Primal Beast for melee power)

[Ghop15]

I saw a person running around running an 18 Druid/ 1 Barbarian/ 1 rogue. I love the idea of a melee trapper. Does anyone know what kind of stats I'd have to do to get that kind of split to work?

[blarhblarhblarh]

Did you notice cleave and greater cleave a bit disappointing on your build? I did 15/5 with razorclaw a few lives and it sucks to lose cast while rage, but I am suspecting THF and Emp Healing would be better than Cleave, Great Cleave with the extra feats available.

Since striketrough came out I see no use for cleave feats. Also I used natural protector until core 4 and FB core 5 and it rolled fine.

Just reincarnated from a half-orc barbarian 15, fvs1 bear 4. No control, no heals, all equips for damage and it plays as an damage instakill using adrenaline and dreadnought mantle; for cormyr and action hero is a must try for any player. 306 prr, 240 melee power
, two persons with cocoon could keep it healed in r10.

Could trade FB tier 5 for an occult slayer tier 5 dwarf con based using shield to be a hate tank. I am sure it would work fine.


Thing is: many builds with the bear or wolf work. Just have to keep in mind what capstones are worth loosing.

[jskinner937]

I saw a person running around running an 18 Druid/ 1 Barbarian/ 1 rogue. I love the idea of a melee trapper. Does anyone know what kind of stats I'd have to do to get that kind of split to work?

More than 15 levels of Druid is diminishing return in my opinion as the 5th core is not that good. Some could argue more than 12 levels is but if you plan to cast heal then it’s worth it imo. If you want trapping, grab the extra barb or rogue levels for the difference. Rogue will give you more skill points and that’s about it on a bear build since sneak attack is going to be largely irrelevant and likely you won’t have a reflex to support evasion. 15D/4Barb/1R will give you uncanny dodge, better trap saves, extra rage and duration, HPs

[Folker]

The veterans I consulted on my BarBearian build all agreed that cleave in any shape or form is a DPS loser, and while it may be useful early on while leveling up, your big hits will be from just Strikethrough and a two-handed weapon. With a bear that means Natural Weapon Fighting taken 3x. As to casting, though my build does not use it, you can bypass this with the Natural Protector perk "Beast Awakened: You can now cast druidic magic while raging." though it is a Tier 4, so plan accordingly if this is important to you as it means 22AP to get it in this branch. Note that if you use Heavy Armor, as you are focusing on melee, you'll still have to contend with spell failure as with any caster.

I thought only Arcane spells had to worry about spell failure.