Shadowdancer ED suggestion for T5 Greater Shadowform

[Czekojin]

Hi there,
I am semi-returning player and first of all I wanna apprciate the great amount of job done on epic destinies U51, I really enjoy some of them while playing with my sneaker trapper assassin.

BTW, playing with my sneaker trapper assassin is incredibly hard on reaper difficulties because of reapers who can see me all the time. What number of Hide/Move silently do I need, if any at all? You can say that I should not play reaper but there are rarely any parties who run less than reaper diffs. So I join others on R+ with some cool guys who can get me through (take aggro, dps big guys and know stuff lol). Well, it is a way but is very limited way and not exactly what I would say as real fun made by my build. But it is fun to run with others, tho and at least I can contribute by disarming some traps.

I am also sad that clickie Consume from old ED is now gone, or at least I did not notice it would be there...?

On the main note of Greater Shadowform - middle of T5 in Shadowdancer ED.
It is great but it has feather fall always on. Could there be some toggle to immediately activate/deactivate it? Because, you know, there are situations where you absolutely do not need FF and you need to get fast somewhere in the bottom. Just a suggestion.

Anyways, have fun guys!

[DYWYPI]

Reapers possess: True Seeing and will see through Invisibility and concealment, such as Blur or Displacement. If you are running in a party, you don't need to bother being in Sneak overly much.

U51 did not really deliver anything beneficial for tactical stealth play style. Albeit it managed to remove; several features, from Shadowdancer, which were useful when soloing sneaky Assassins.

[Wraithkin]

I specifically don't play reaper for that reason. Tactical stealth game play is being sidelined more and more with U51.

[Czekojin]

I specifically don't play reaper for that reason. Tactical stealth game play is being sidelined more and more with U51.

It is true that last update took much more fun from stealth characters away even though it was hard to play that before U51 too.
Would you play stealth if it was more balanced?

[Czekojin]

Reapers possess: True Seeing and will see through Invisibility and concealment, such as Blur or Displacement. If you are running in a party, you don't need to bother being in Sneak overly much.

U51 did not really deliver anything beneficial for tactical stealth play style. Albeit it managed to remove; several features, from Shadowdancer, which were useful when soloing sneaky Assassins.

That is extremely sad. But thank you for the info.

[Blerk]

Gen 1 Reapers can detect you when you are in stealth regardless of how good your HiS and MS skills are. Gen 2 reapers cannot.

But, this detection radius was reduced a little while back and very significantly for stealth play it is now less than the range of bluff. So now we do have the option of bluff pulling them away from other monsters without needing terrain to hide behind, dealing with them when they are alone, and then getting back to sneaking around.

With your feather falling issue, try toggling off your mantle if you need to drop down quickly.

[Czekojin]

Gen 1 Reapers can detect you when you are in stealth regardless of how good your HiS and MS skills are. Gen 2 reapers cannot.

But, this detection radius was reduced a little while back and very significantly for stealth play it is now less than the range of bluff. So now we do have the option of bluff pulling them away from other monsters without needing terrain to hide behind, dealing with them when they are alone, and then getting back to sneaking around.

With your feather falling issue, try toggling off your mantle if you need to drop down quickly.

Ah? Good to know, thanks. In Claw of Vulkoor, it is hard to tell but I guess I will check it again.

Toggling mantle is actually great advice, I did not think of that

[Wraithkin]

Gen 1 Reapers can detect you when you are in stealth regardless of how good your HiS and MS skills are. Gen 2 reapers cannot.

But, this detection radius was reduced a little while back and very significantly for stealth play it is now less than the range of bluff. So now we do have the option of bluff pulling them away from other monsters without needing terrain to hide behind, dealing with them when they are alone, and then getting back to sneaking around.

With your feather falling issue, try toggling off your mantle if you need to drop down quickly.

The issue with the solutions that you are providing is they are a work around, obviously this is not the way that they are encouraging people to play. They took cool toys away and gave them to other people. I now need to make MORE accommodations to play the style of play that is not the meta.

[Blerk]

The issue with the solutions that you are providing is they are a work around, obviously this is not the way that they are encouraging people to play. They took cool toys away and gave them to other people. I now need to make MORE accommodations to play the style of play that is not the meta.

No argument there, just trying to help a fellow player get by under the system we have now.

If you've been following the discussions about stealth on the forums you'll see that they went almost nowhere despite the efforts of other posters to make reasonable arguments as politely as they could. The sad truth is no amount of friendly engagement or frustrated hectoring is having any effect.

Same with the shadowdancer ED tree. Lots of feedback from people who understand stealth play very well, which was largely ignored by designers who apparently don't understand and don't care, then most of their effort apparently devoted to making SD into a caster tree. Pretty disgraceful but here we are.

[Wraithkin]

No argument there, just trying to help a fellow player get by under the system we have now.

If you've been following the discussions about stealth on the forums you'll see that they went almost nowhere despite the efforts of other posters to make reasonable arguments as politely as they could. The sad truth is no amount of friendly engagement or frustrated hectoring is having any effect.

Same with the shadowdancer ED tree. Lots of feedback from people who understand stealth play very well, which was largely ignored by designers who apparently don't understand and don't care, then most of their effort apparently devoted to making SD into a caster tree. Pretty disgraceful but here we are.

I appreciate it. I honestly do. I mentioned it in the rogue forums but I'm starting to look into work around that are more enjoyable until hopefully they give us a new epic destiny for tactical stealth players. Any feedback from others would be greatly appreciated. I'm starting with master of flowers, I just need to get some cloth armor at cap. >.<

[Czekojin]

Thank you guys for the insight I do not have.
I play pure stealth rogue Shadar-kai, currently trying to farm epic past lives so I can be more resilient with higher survivability (4th life and 6th epic TR atm). I do not have many points in reaper tree but I am aiming to get more and more although it is not really easy. However with all those casters and pew pew users around me the quests become very fast. I am usually left behind, getting trap bonuses and hidden locations while the others zerg forward. When I am in non stealth action, my only chance to survive is when others grab aggro lol. Otherwise I still feel a bit squishy, in non stealth combat lower dps (working on my sentient dagger from Citw). But maybe there is a bit of fun in this challenge.

However, it is true that I do not find many useful things in current Shadowdancer ED. Some of the better stuff is locked by level 30 but that is the moment I epic TR again so I do not use it at all, although the floating shadow looks cool. I wish I could have reach it at least on level 29.

[DYWYPI]

When provided with constructive feedback, from knowledgeable stealth enthusiasts, with firsthand experience of "stealth play". The Developers' negotiation skills were lacking and that's putting politely.

I think part of the problem was they didn't have anywhere near the appropriate resources and time or want to improve things in regarding 'stealthy play'. The developer Shadowdancer focus was on damage dealing aspects, i.e. combat. For sneaky stealth play style: we got silly fantasy-film-like emulation features that were near useless rather than applying solid stealth tactics. :-/

Neither does it help when solo stealth play isn't something the DDO Developers are particularly interested in supporting or only do it grudgingly.

Perhaps in contrast the office cleaner actually plays Assassins in stealthy fashion albeit their input was mostly disregarded.

Ironically the pre-U51 Shadowdancer actually had some useful features for stealth play, not even damage output related, which unfortunately got removed for U51. There were several of us that were trying to talk sense and prevent further erosion to stealth play - you cannot say I didn't try.

If they're planning on giving us a new Epic Destiny for Stealth play, it would possibly turn into a complete disaster. Assuming they followed the same types of judgement and mindset as they had for U51. In fact it'd be better if they didn't; at least then they couldn't damage it any more than they already have. :-)

[Czekojin]

When provided with constructive feedback, from knowledgeable stealth enthusiasts, with firsthand experience of "stealth play". The Developers' negotiation skills were lacking and that's putting politely.

I think part of the problem was they didn't have anywhere near the appropriate resources and time or want to improve things in regarding 'stealthy play'. The developer Shadowdancer focus was on damage dealing aspects, i.e. combat. For sneaky stealth play style: we got silly fantasy-film-like emulation features that were near useless rather than applying solid stealth tactics. :-/

Neither does it help when solo stealth play isn't something the DDO Developers are particularly interested in supporting or only do it grudgingly.

Perhaps in contrast the office cleaner actually plays Assassins in stealthy fashion albeit their input was mostly disregarded.

Ironically the pre-U51 Shadowdancer actually had some useful features for stealth play, not even damage output related, which unfortunately got removed for U51. There were several of us that were trying to talk sense and prevent further erosion to stealth play - you cannot say I didn't try.

If they're planning on giving us a new Epic Destiny for Stealth play, it would possibly turn into a complete disaster. Assuming they followed the same types of judgement and mindset as they had for U51. In fact it'd be better if they didn't; at least then they couldn't damage it any more than they already have. :-)

Is there any summarized list of all that should/could be improved? I would really like to read about it to see it whole.

[DYWYPI]

Czekojin, reinstating passing through enemies via tumble (Shadowform) would be a vast improvement when you are ethereal - it also makes sense thematically - your rogue is in a gaseous form.

Reworking "From the Shadows" also would make sense as it's basically neither use nor ornament (at least for an assassin) it seems only half-completed. It should have allowed controlled movement or you to pass through enemies.

Exploring the; not being automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense, was semi-interesting. Albeit not without issues; simply because if the current stealth system wasn't as faulty, it'd be less important...

At least it was planned as a Level 30 requirement; so there less chance of people with fantastic responses saying: Invisibility doesn't work, Sneak is broken, why can that Champion see me via 'True Seeing', etc. Albeit until the Character levels-up and attains that ability; you've still got the same exact scenario and conditions regarding the current "faulty" stealth system.

There were plenty of interesting ideas pitched in like mechanical "bug bombs" some were more feasible than others.

If you want to see all the main U51 Shadowdancer Preview "lively" debates:

• U51 Preview 1: Shadowdancer
• U51 Preview 2: Shadowdancer
• U51 Preview 3: Shadowdancer (Revision 2)

In this thread you've probably given better overall communication then we got from the developers dealing with the Shadowdancer planning during those three previews. :-)

[Czekojin]

Czekojin, reinstating passing through enemies via tumble (Shadowform) would be a vast improvement when you are ethereal - it also makes sense thematically - your rogue is in a gaseous form.

Reworking "From the Shadows" also would make sense as it's basically neither use nor ornament (at least for an assassin) it seems only half-completed. It should have allowed controlled movement or you to pass through enemies.

Exploring the; not being automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense, was semi-interesting. Albeit not without issues; simply because if the current stealth system wasn't as faulty, it'd be less important...

At least it was planned as a Level 30 requirement; so there less chance of people with fantastic responses saying: Invisibility doesn't work, Sneak is broken, why can that Champion see me via 'True Seeing', etc. Albeit until the Character levels-up and attains that ability; you've still got the same exact scenario and conditions regarding the current "faulty" stealth system.

There were plenty of interesting ideas pitched in like mechanical "bug bombs" some were more feasible than others.

If you want to see all the main U51 Shadowdancer Preview "lively" debates:

• U51 Preview 1: Shadowdancer
• U51 Preview 2: Shadowdancer
• U51 Preview 3: Shadowdancer (Revision 2)

In this thread you've probably given better overall communication then we got from the developers dealing with the Shadowdancer planning during those three previews. :-)

Thanks! That is a lot of reading and actually many of the suggestions written in the other discussions mostly match my own feelings of current stealth play in Shadowdancer, in comparison to other EDs. Now I have the urge to provide my own feedback, although it is probably late. But for the record and future generations
I will take my time to think about it so it won't be anytime soon.

[Wraithkin]

Czekojin, reinstating passing through enemies via tumble (Shadowform) would be a vast improvement when you are ethereal - it also makes sense thematically - your rogue is in a gaseous form.

Reworking "From the Shadows" also would make sense as it's basically neither use nor ornament (at least for an assassin) it seems only half-completed. It should have allowed controlled movement or you to pass through enemies.

Exploring the; not being automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense, was semi-interesting. Albeit not without issues; simply because if the current stealth system wasn't as faulty, it'd be less important...

At least it was planned as a Level 30 requirement; so there less chance of people with fantastic responses saying: Invisibility doesn't work, Sneak is broken, why can that Champion see me via 'True Seeing', etc. Albeit until the Character levels-up and attains that ability; you've still got the same exact scenario and conditions regarding the current "faulty" stealth system.

There were plenty of interesting ideas pitched in like mechanical "bug bombs" some were more feasible than others.

If you want to see all the main U51 Shadowdancer Preview "lively" debates:

• U51 Preview 1: Shadowdancer
• U51 Preview 2: Shadowdancer
• U51 Preview 3: Shadowdancer (Revision 2)

In this thread you've probably given better overall communication then we got from the developers dealing with the Shadowdancer planning during those three previews. :-)

I just read those threads. Seems like a lot of good suggestions were made. This does remind me of when Shadowdancer first dropped and it took them a long time to fix it. I hope they fix it again at some point, they obviously missed the target for a lot of players. Unless they are just trying to weed out some play styles and lose more players in the process.

[Wraithkin]

I understand I'm replying basically to myself at this point. Oh well.

I TR'ed and made it back to cap. I stand by the fact that no trees really interest me in their top tier. I lost a lot of what I liked about Shadowdancer and it's been replaced with some mediocrity. Some of the abilities I do like in their update state, but it's all lower level stuff.

Stealthy 3/3 Hide in plain sight is nice
I love Cover of Darkness 3/3 Nightshield, great way to protect from magic missile and other force effects.

Pierce the gloom giving silence, quell, and blindness immunity is great for casters. The ability seems mediocre for my rogue. Mediocrity from a tier 4 ability feels bad man.

I'm not in love with the epic strike. I leveled it up on all three tiers, trying both variants for a melee build. It's even worse that our Epic moment uses that, 3d6 sneak attack dice, and incorporeality/invisibility.

In honestly feel you took an tree that felt epic and definitely a little Billy Bad@$$ and have made it feel meh. A destiny that in table top is made for stealth players has been usurped by casters, and feels second rate for melee stealth players is a little frustrating.

I've done some mixing and matching with three epic destinies and while they perform just fine, they don't feel cool. As a result of this, I'm personally very underwhelmed by the changes made in U51. I try not to be a doom sayer or a forum troll, but it would be nice if this could be addressed by changes or additions.

My .02$

[VinoeWhines]

I understand I'm replying basically to myself at this point. Oh well.

I TR'ed and made it back to cap. I stand by the fact that no trees really interest me in their top tier. I lost a lot of what I liked about Shadowdancer and it's been replaced with some mediocrity. Some of the abilities I do like in their update state, but it's all lower level stuff.

Stealthy 3/3 Hide in plain sight is nice
I love Cover of Darkness 3/3 Nightshield, great way to protect from magic missile and other force effects.

Pierce the gloom giving silence, quell, and blindness immunity is great for casters. The ability seems mediocre for my rogue. Mediocrity from a tier 4 ability feels bad man.

I'm not in love with the epic strike. I leveled it up on all three tiers, trying both variants for a melee build. It's even worse that our Epic moment uses that, 3d6 sneak attack dice, and incorporeality/invisibility.

In honestly feel you took an tree that felt epic and definitely a little Billy Bad@$$ and have made it feel meh. A destiny that in table top is made for stealth players has been usurped by casters, and feels second rate for melee stealth players is a little frustrating.

I've done some mixing and matching with three epic destinies and while they perform just fine, they don't feel cool. As a result of this, I'm personally very underwhelmed by the changes made in U51. I try not to be a doom sayer or a forum troll, but it would be nice if this could be addressed by changes or additions.

My .02$

Hi (Wraithkin)and welcome back(Czekojin), I'm one of the posters as well that gave time consuming suggestions and re-edits to choices. Here is a snapshot I put in one of the posts about the Quality of Life that resulted in Shadow Dancer now and what it could be:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Good: We got Float over Traps.
The Bad: Shadow Dancer is the Worst Tree in the Update.
The Ugly: Shadow Dancer is so Disfigured, Amputated and a Transplantation from pre U51, it's now the Frankenstein of the Epic Destiny Trees.

Disfigured: Meld Into Darkness(to 15% efficacy, "Left Arm "), Dark Imbuement(Remove AOE damage, "Right Arm")
Amputation: Shadow Manipulation, Executioner Strike/Shot and Consume. Meld/Dark Imbuement(choose which arm you want to keep).
Transplantation: Transplanting a form of Shadow Manipulation to Shiradi Champion in Beguile Charm(why?). Transplanting Caster parts to your organism and forcing it to comply, rise... Frankenstein's Monster....rise!

----------------------------------------------------------
This would bring the Tree back to a choice vs the other Trees in Update 51.


Core 1 (level 20) : Shadow Training: You gain the Magical Training feat If you have the Trapfinding Feat trained you gain: Watchful Eyes Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +5 Melee Power and +4 Ranged Power, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, as well as 5 Force Spellpower/Spell Crit and 5 Universal Spellpower. Each core also grants a +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs.(*Many on the forums are requesting Watchful Eye as thematic to progression of Feats/Enhancements.)

Core 3 (level 23): Step Through Shadow: Dimension Door clickie. 2m cooldown. Also gain: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 90 seconds)Shadow Walk(duration30 seconds) Also, while using weapons that qualify for Weapon Finesse, you gain 3% profane bonus to your chance to doublestrike. This doublestrike bonus applies to attacks made by a Crossbow, dagger, handaxe, kama, kukri, light hammer, light mace, light pick, rapier, shortsword, sickle, quarterstaff or when unarmed or in druid animal form. (**This is Shadow Training IV.)


Core 6 (level 26): The Darkest Luck: You have Evasion, normal Evasion rules apply. If you have Evasion already, you gain Improved Evasion. If you have Improved Evasion already, you no longer fail Reflex Saves automatically(Pretty Nice!) by rolling a 1. In addition, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, granting it 5% vulnerability to physical damage and removing its immunity to sneak attack for a short duration, if applicable (debuff lasts 12 seconds DDO Forums). You gain +2 to your assassinate DC.(***This is already on Live(U50) now and can save a spot to free up in Tier IV "The Drop" of this tree, with another option to gain back another Enhancement like Executioner Strike/Shot.)


Tier 1 (req level 20):

• Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saves, +2/4/6 hide and move silently. Rank 3: Hide in Plane Sight feat. +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Is already on Live as it doesn't need to be split up. It also gives another option to add to tier I like a starter/builder for Meld.
• Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: Nightshield permanently
• . Well of Darkness: +30/60/100 Spellpoints, +2/4/6 Sneak Attack Dice. Rank 3: +10% Force Absorption
• Meld into Darkness I: Active: Gain 10% uncapped dodge 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
• Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Improved Traps Feat/Enhancement your traps have a 20%/30%/40% percent chance at No Save.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Shadow Weaponry: +5/10/15% Strikethrough, +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance, +1/2/3% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: Gain the Sap Feat, if trained already gain the Stunning Blow effect.
• Sleight of Hand: Active: Create a Mechanical(Shadowy) Spider that crawls to your target(like mechanical spiders from Sharn) and detonate on impact. With chance to knock down target on failed Reflex Save. +2/4/6 UMD. +25/50/75% damage and healing of your wands, scrolls and other items that cast spells. Adds +1/2/3 to the save DC's of your offensive wands. (yes, this is wand and scroll mastery)
• Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. +25% sneak speed, +30% enhancement bonus to movement speed. Also grants ghost touch on all attacks. You are also less affected by caster movement penalties (if you have this + mobile spellcasting, this will drop the penalty to roughly 0, letting you cast without any movement disruption) When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so. (It's on Live already.)
• Epic Strike: Multiselector:
  
  • Shadow Lance: Active: (Cooldown: 15 seconds) Throws 3 Spectral Spears, each dealing [4/6/8]d8 + [18/24/30] Force damage and has a chance to blind target (Fort DC [14/16/18] + character level + save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). This damage scales with 200% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% Spell Power.
  • Dark Imbuement: Active: Imbues your weapons and spellcasts with Evil energies for 6/8/10s, cooldown 15 seconds.
    
    • Melee/Ranged: You deal 1d2/4/6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped damage on hit (scaling with Melee or Ranged Power, or Force spellpower if its higher), and on a Critical strike, your attacks blind enemies with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    • Spellcasting: Your Sneak Attack dice are now applied to your harmful spellcasts. Your spells deal 1d2/4/6 Untyped damage per Sneak Attack Dice you have (scaling with Force/Untyped spellpower). This may only trigger once per spellcast per monster, so multi-hit spells will only have one additional damage value.
• Lithe: Passive Bonus: +4/6/10 reflex saves, AC, PRR/MRR and light armor Max Dex Bonus, Rank 3: +5 Force/Universal Spellpower. +5 Sneak Attack to Hit.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer destiny mantle grants +1/2/3 sneak attack dice and +1/2/3 Spell Penetration. Also gain: When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies Blinding them for 10 seconds while doing so (60 second cooldown on Blind).
• Quick Strike: Multiselector:[/COLOR][/B]
  
  • Your Quicken metamagic costs 1/2/3 SP less
  • +2/4/6% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Rank 3: You gain Quick Draw as a Feat, if trained already, your attacks gain Improved Deception.
• Grim Precision: Bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge.
• Shadowdancer Focus: +1/2/3 Assassinate, Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment or Abjuration DCs
• Shadowcaster: -15% Cooldowns to Assassinate, Improve Uncanny Dodge, Traps and Spells, Scrolls, Wands and Clicky items. +5 Force/Universal Spellpower.

Tier 4 (req level 26):

• Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 Accuracy, to-hit with Sneak attacks, to-hit while flanking. Rank 3: You gain immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness. Also Your First Attack will always hit except when you roll a 1 on your attack roll.(60 second cooldown)
• Dark Armor: (Clothe and Light armor/half if wearing Medium or Heavy armor) +10/12/14 PRR and MRR,+3/6/10% Dodge, +3/6/10 Force/Universal Spellpower. Rank 3: Immunity to Energy Drain and 5% Incorporeal(Stacking) and Max Dex Bonus.
• Dark Mercy: Your shadowdancer mantle now grants +5/10/15% helplessness damage Meld now grants 35% uncapped dodge(Cloth and Light armor. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 10 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
• The Drop: Multi-Selector:
  - Executioner's Strike/Shot: Active Ability Multi-Selector: (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Melee or ranged attack. Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 critical threat range and +1 critical damage multiplier. If you have the Assassinate Feat On hit: You have a 35/45/55% chance to kill a target instantly if the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + character level + higher of INT/DEX/WIS modifier + Assassination bonuses). Even on successful save target takes an additional [50/75/100] damage from this attack. (This is already on Live as a lower tier option. Why take it away?)
  
  • The Drop of Spellcasting: Your Force Spells has a 35% chance to strip away their Spell Resistance for 5 seconds and be vulnerable to 100% Force Spell Critical (Cooldown: 90 seconds) and cause Shadow Strike.
  • Shadow Strike debuff: -3 Spell Resistance, -3 PRR and -3 MRR per stack. Lasts 12 seconds, stacks drop 1 at a time. Max 3 stacks.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Improved Shadow Lance: Your Spectral Spears have attempt to dominate the target for 1 minute (Enemy must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses), after which it is subject to instant death if it fails a fortitude save (DC 20 + highest ability score + assassinate bonuses). once per 60 seconds.
  • Improved Dark Imbuement now increases your melee range and reduces the cost of all of your metamagics by 1 each. When enemies miss you in combat while Meld is active, they are blinded by shadows with no save. This blind lasts 5 seconds and can only apply to each monster once per 60 seconds.
    
    
    I think the Epic Strikes should be Multi Selectable, exclusive Actives, that way you can select which part of the Mantle you want active, just like you can do when choosing other Tree mantles as you can't have them both on. This way you can at least have the benefit of your Main Tree switchable with in the Tree's Mantle, but will have to choose the second and third Tree's Mantle as is proposed on the Previews.
    This way you get to have the flexibility in your own Destiny Mantle Tree but not being switchable in the other Trees.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: You float as if you had feather fall, +20 hide and move silently, and no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. +10 Force/Universal Spellpower. You gain +25% stacking incorp. You also are not automatically detected by monsters with Tremor Sense (aka All-Hearing - this is for Spiders and Ooze), but remain detectable by All-Seeing monsters (like Dragons or Reapers).When tumbling, you vanish into a cloud of black smoke and can pass through enemies while doing so and deal Enervation on all melee, ranged and casting mobs you pass through.

• Just a Taste of Shadows: Multiselector:
  
  
  • (Sovereign) Vorpal Strike/Shot: Perform an attack with +[1/2/3][W] damage, +1 mult on 19-20 with bows, thrown, crossbows, quarterstaves, and finessable melee weapons. Rank 3. On a Vorpal Strike: If your target has fewer than 3000 hit points, it is instantly slain. If your target has above 3000 hit points, it takes 300 damage.
  • Aura Toggle: Create a Shadowy Aura around you that deals 1d6 Force damage per character level This damage scales with 200% of the higher of your melee or ranged power or 100% of Spell Power. Your Shadows heal you over time(every 12 seconds) based off of Heal Amp and Spell Power.

• Phantasmal Shadows Multiselector:
  
  • Weird: You gain the Weird spell - AoE Phantasmal Killer, scales off Illusion DC. You must be able to cast level 9 spells. Cooldown 60s, SP cost 50 (matches implosion). DC 20 + highest of int/wis/cha + illusion bonuses
  • Consume Shadow: Dissolve into a whorl of shadow, leaving your corporeal form behind. While in this form, you are considered Sneaking and Invisible regardless of what you do. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice, 50% Incorporeality, as well as the effects of Dark Imbuement and Meld into Darkness as if they had been fully trained and upgraded. When non-boss enemies PASS BY YOU you in this state, they are slain by their fear, automatically taking a Phantasmal Killer effect with no save. Duration: 20 seconds. Cooldown 60s
  • Remove Shadow: From-Sneak Active attack. Enemies in an area(AOE) must make a will save vs 20 + highest ability score + assassinate or be permanently cursed with Shadow Loss. You also gain 3d6 Sneak Attack Dice for 30 seconds.
    Shadow Loss: You no longer cast a shadow. (literally. we literally turn their shadow visuals off). In addition, you have -20 PRR/MRR/AC and Spell Resistance. Cooldown 60s.

• Enhanced Shadowdancer Multi-Selector:
  
  • Spell Focus: +1/2/3 Spell DCs and Spell Resistance.
  • Attack: Gain the Sap Feat if you have it trained you gain the Long Shadows effect to Sap: Once per attack(Cooldown: 15 seconds)
  • Long Shadows: Attack now increases your melee range.

Something Similiar for Epic Moment?

• Shadow Mastery: Epic Moment: Enemies in an area are Confused with no save for 30 seconds, gain a stack of Fey Chaos, and apply a stack of Fey Chaos on hitting non-Player, non-Hireling targets while Confused. 5 minute cooldown.

Fey Chaos: This creature takes 5% more damage from all sources for 10 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times, and all stacks expire after not gaining new ones for 10 seconds. This effect works on Bosses and Raid Bosses.

[Smokewolf]

The Shadow-Dancer ED has nothing in it that a melee / ranged Rogue would want to use vs Shiradi-Champion. Instead the Dev's chose to not focus on Rogue related abilities but made it more of a Hybrid ED that no one would use as their Primary destiny. (Its been relegated to being a splash ED) Furthermore, the "update" if it can be called such, pretty much killed stealth based play by removing the key features players expected to keep from the original.

Prior to the release of the U51, there were many who called for this not to be released without addressing many of the issues previously discussed in other threads. However, I've come to expect that such Sage advice from senior players is often ignored when it directly conflicts with the Dev's chosen path...

Side note: Now while threads such as this are good and well for those that would like to vent. The reality is that at its best, the most you'll see for a response to any of this is lip-service. With a promise to do better on the next pass 3-5 years from now.

-Smoke

[Czekojin]

Sorry, I really wanted to write some feedback by myself but I got bored by the stealth play in a surprisingly short time and went to play Pokémon instead
Maybe I will be back later during 2022 and get back into it somehow, and hopefully the game will fix itself a bit (at this moment, I consider the stealth gameplay broken).
Until then, see ya guys, have fun