Question regarding Sneak Attack

[Smokewolf]

From what I understand, Sneak Attacks are possible when a mob isn't focused on you or otherwise helpless. Thus in a sense, a mob that has its back turned to the player or has let its guard down becomes vulnerable to Sneak Attack.

Reference: https://ddowiki.com/page/Sneak_attack

Question, so with this in mind... If a Ranger using Fear-Arrows causes a mob to flee (due to Fear effects), can the Ranger now Sneak Attack the fleeing mob? (I.E. the mob has its back turned and has disengaged from combat)

Thank you in advance!

Smoke

[Valerianus]

i never explored fear effects, but the answer should be no, this will not make you proc sneak attacks. it does not matter if it turns around and flee, you have aggro and fear afaik does not cause helpless. except if fear effects make you lose aggro, in that case it would be news to me lol, never thought about testing that.


positioning plays no role, key factors are: no aggro or if have aggro helpless\blind\bluff effects.

that "focused on you", "unaware", translated in game terms means "if you have aggro or not"


note, for all of this you don't even need sneak class, any player with e.g. gear that boost sneak damage or rogue past lives will work like this to proc that extra damage. obvioulsy for some real heavy damage you need sneak attack dices but...any bit of moar dps is moar dps.


are you playing ranger? get sniper shot from dws. a sorta "bluff effect". that's what you are looking for i guess.

[OfElectricMen]

Nope. As noted, the fear effect doesn't render the target Helpless, and even at it's most extreme of Panicked, the simple fact is you've caused that fear, so the creature is still focused on you, just on getting away from you.

It should vary based on whether the target is Frightened or Panicked, but near as I can tell, DDO doesn't really differentiate between the two states.

[Smokewolf]

@Dev’s

In just about every PnP / Digital RPG I have played, allows for attacks of opportunity against a fleeing opponent…

Case in point: A mob panics / runs, turning its back to the player it had previously engaged. Thus allowing the player an “attack of opportunity” as if the mob were helpless. Because let’s face it, in such a situation the mob can not defend itself when it’s flank is suddenly exposed to an opponent.

Thus a panicked mob should by all rights be open to sneak attacks, until the condition causing the panicked state has ended. However in DDO, mobs can magically defend themselves while actively fleeing away from the players attacking them. This make ZERO sense and only serves to make the mechanics that can cause panic somewhat useless.

-Smoke

[Firepants]

@Dev’s

In just about every PnP / Digital RPG I have played, allows for attacks of opportunity against a fleeing opponent…

Case in point: A mob panics / runs, turning its back to the player it had previously engaged. Thus allowing the player an “attack of opportunity” as if the mob were helpless. Because let’s face it, in such a situation the mob can not defend itself when it’s flank is suddenly exposed to an opponent.

Thus a panicked mob should by all rights be open to sneak attacks, until the condition causing the panicked state has ended. However in DDO, mobs can magically defend themselves while actively fleeing away from the players attacking them. This make ZERO sense and only serves to make the mechanics that can cause panic somewhat useless.

-Smoke

In any game system I've played that has an AoO mechanic it's meant as a compensation for being turn based. Without it, in a turn-based system, a melee combatant could theoretically close to melee range, attack, and withdraw out of combat range. Depending on the move budgets of the attacker and defender, the attacker could never be attackable by the defender on their turn. So AoO was introduced to help even the fight out a bit. DDO is real time (assuming the lag demons are satiated for the moment), if a player sees an opponent turn tail and run nothing's stopping them from swiping at the fleeing opponent, they don't have to wait their turn to attack. No need for an AoO mechanic.

I do agree that any status effect that causes the affected to run away should also apply sneak attack vulnerability (like a deception effect) and/or a modified incap status (maybe 1/2 or 1/4 the extra damage to helpless modifier). Like, sure, fear/panic might help a bit for a ranged build to mitigate aggro, but in a party play scenario the ability becomes a problem for the melee meats forced to chase down panicking mobs that are no longer in a nice tight cluster. In general fear effects in DDO aren't really worth the bother IMO. Points spent on enhancements, or destiny points, or spell points that give a fear effect can always be spent on a better control mechanic or more DPS.