Downtime Notice: Friday, November 5th 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT)

[philoe]

It's always amusing to see comments from people that have no clue about software engineering give advice about how a software company should operate.

No but what is funny is how some folks believe because its a software company that they should get special "oh thats ok, keep trying" or "its just how it works in this industry"...My advice to any company, software or whatever, is to have a finished product upon release..Hey i get it, some problems arise, but this one just happens to release their updates with known issues instead of fixing them...so "my advice" is less about software engineering and more about customer service and basic business

[YTSEsoldier]

No but what is funny is how some folks believe because its a software company that they should get special "oh thats ok, keep trying" or "its just how it works in this industry"...My advice to any company, software or whatever, is to have a finished product upon release..Hey i get it, some problems arise, but this one just happens to release their updates with known issues instead of fixing them...so "my advice" is less about software engineering and more about customer service and basic business

Agree. This is not about software company releasing a product with bugs...this is about poor customer service by not fixing existing bugs (some very longstanding) or even completing the effort of the last update prior to pushing out what was probably one of the senior devs pet projects prematurely.

How about fixing the ladder bug ? Warchanter's high spirits still doesn't work correctly years later as far a I can tell. How about stuck on loading/failure to load ? How about finishing the Legendary Sands gear and pushing it out....you know Update 50...the last one, maybe complete that Update before pushing out a new one. How about lag (oh, I forgot its mostly client side...), How about the random flashing lights bug in No Refunds that requires me to close client and relog to avoid getting a seizure every other time I run the quest. How about the **** collectables in Search and Rescue ? I have still never run Soul Survivor because I cant find a group because its so buggy apparently. I could probably make a list as long as the U51 release notes with bugs that have been around for years but are just accepted by us stupid players because we know the devs wont fix them because its not in their financial interest (here's a clue...good CS is ALWAYS in your best financial interest). (Make sure you don't drop off the ledge at the end of Rest Stop before you hear the gate open because the end boss will bug and wont activate...)

I am tentatively optimistic about the changes in U51 in general based on the limited exposure I have had so far but as was mentioned multiple time by many folks here on the forums, the impression of CS is not that great due to the pushing of incomplete products prior to finishing other ones. The number of bugs with it however is almost comic and indicative of a rushed product with lack of beta testing. Here's something Everquest figured out 20+ years ago...keep the test server open ALL THE TIME and beta test you products for more that 2 days...oh wait, you don't beta test you "preview" (sorry coders, I don't need to be a coder myself to understand product development or project management, obviously the "software developers posting here have no substantial experience in either of those fields". Oh, and what happened to that wild hunt raid I saw mentioned somewhere ?

I really hope that too many folks don't rage quit over this as I am don't think I will put the time or effort getting emotionally involved in another MMO, however if the server population tanks so that I can no longer find groups, I will drop my VIP and spend much less time in Ebberron...

[Cordovan]

The game worlds have reopened.

[metalclanger]

Have you ever tried to regression test 15-20+ years worth of coding after a major overhaul under a strict deadline? Your comment indicates otherwise.

Let them apply their patch and move forward.

I have, yes it sucks but that doesn't mean you can avoid it.

While I find a lot of the criticisms of the quality of testing to be valid, I'd ask what resources the devs and release teams have as well as how many of these issues were identified on the test instance?
On the other hand, how many players wanted this ED redesign more than the random disconnects, chat server disconnects, friends list and other bugs which still plague the game after several years? The management decision there is more questionable than the regression testing and release plans.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Honestly, it could have waited a week. I don't think players would have cared. Maybe you had media lined up and couldn't push it? Or I guess you probably couldn't have identified all of these bugs with internal testing even in a week. There is a lot to DDO.

[mr420247]

The update broke multi vial spell targeting if it is not hard targeted even at point blank range the spells and slas just fizzles not good

[moriiah]

hello, ive sent a few messages to the devs about the gold roll nightmare that wasnt even available. some people got the nightmare because they rolled a 100 or whatever the case. but as for myself i spent actual money to obtain an item that didnt even exist and i feel like ive been robbed. any business out there would compensate a customer for paying for something they dont have etc.. yet i get my money taken and no one responds..

[jskinner937]

The update broke multi vial spell targeting if it is not hard targeted even at point blank range the spells and slas just fizzles not good

Many spells are affected. Delayed Blast Fireball Instant. I have noticed on jump it works better, but even hard targeting sometimes just blows up in front of you.

[ChicagoChris]

Funny you should mention that, QA is a common thing and is meant to stop software being launched in this state.

I think you don't understand how software development works.

QA is to identify bugs. Period. QA has very little to do with when software is actually released.

Most large scale software development project ship on a couple of criteria:

1. When the release is scheduled to be shipped
2. When there are no longer any critical priority bugs (and critical being things like client crashes, obvious breaks to the economic system, server corruption)
3. when the number of high priority bugs *to be fixed* drop below a threshold.

*All* software is released with known, active bugs. The triage process, which rates Severity and Priority (critical, high/med/low), is valuable to the bug fixe process but is typically *not* controlled by QA. Triage determines 2 & 3 above, but note that #1 is really the driver. Critical bugs *may* delay #1, but that's really about it.

Case in point -
Storm horns (among others) has a jump point where you can leave the known map. Triaging this would probably be a High Severity, but low priority, hence the reason it hasn't been fixed and probably won't be.

[Shadowperson]

Angelic Charge now requires charges.

And now the charges never replenish... You guys really need to start testing things before going live. Its becoming an embarrassment at this point.

[GeneralDiomedes]

QA is to identify bugs. Period.

That is a very narrow view of QA. Not true in my experience.

[nicklesmack]

Many spells are affected. Delayed Blast Fireball Instant. I have noticed on jump it works better, but even hard targeting sometimes just blows up in front of you.

But still missed a bunch. meteor swarm was missing too....i had (2) meteor swarms and a deleyed blast fireball on my fire sorc in L20 in borderlands do a combined 700 damage to a carnage reaper on R1 yesterday. so ya the Carnie won that encounter LOL, either something is changed or i have become a terrible player in just a few days...not discounting either's likely-hood.

[rjjones44]

Turned on the mantle in GMOF. Toggle does not show active in the buffs list. Togvle shows active in the toolbar. Immune to slippery surfaces are not applying to the game. Also, when doing punch combos for group buffs, buff doesn't apply to my toon. The rest of the party gets the buff.

[LT218]

Have you ever tried to regression test 15-20+ years worth of coding after a major overhaul under a strict deadline? Your comment indicates otherwise.

Let them apply their patch and move forward.

If only they'd had 10 years or so to clean up and fix that old code... oh wait.

They've had more than enough time to clean up and rework the old code to prevent this sort of trainwreck every time they push out a major update. Instead, they simply chose to continue piling bandaid fix after bandaid fix on top of it while they churned out new content that is often bug-riddled and mediocre because, among other things, they're constantly struggling against that 15+ year old code and the associated bandaids.

They've been playing the short, tactical game for years and now constantly pay the bill of poor quality and unhappy customers that came due because they stuck their heads in the sand and completely ignored the stratgic long game.

[SouCarioca]

Not at all..I just enjoy gaming so have zero knowledge of the inter workings of this type of work..To launch a product or service in any industry and have to repeatedly fix it after its launched, time and time again, calls for some sort of accountability. I think that is fair....I'm sure this team works hard, sure they have a defined product they want us to have, however this happens over and over again...for years!!! I mean fix the process because whatever game plan or business plan they use to create these updates does not work and its proven over and over again

If you think creating the perfect character in DDO is challenging, with its mere hundreds of enhancements, feats, classes and races, and all their permutations and interactions and synergies, then try an MMO with millions of lines of code that is constantly changing and evolving. It is the very complexity and richness that you enjoy that makes this a task for Hercules. Even if you take the time to report a bug, or issue, it is almost never simply: "Oh right, Line 33467890, change that minus to a plus". It *might* be, but more often it is 'scratch head and see if they can figure out why it is behaving that way'. Which takes time, which means other bugs, features, developments, and more are in standby while this takes place.

Me, I'll be happy to see if I can get my Eldritch Swashbuckler working the way I want. :-)

[SouCarioca]

If only they'd had 10 years or so to clean up and fix that old code... oh wait.

They've had more than enough time to clean up and rework the old code to prevent this sort of trainwreck every time they push out a major update. Instead, they simply chose to continue piling bandaid fix after bandaid fix on top of it while they churned out new content that is often bug-riddled and mediocre because, among other things, they're constantly struggling against that 15+ year old code and the associated bandaids.

They've been playing the short, tactical game for years and now constantly pay the bill of poor quality and unhappy customers that came due because they stuck their heads in the sand and completely ignored the stratgic long game.

I don't agree. I think the issue is simply lack of resources. This is all built on some custom legacy code that has its problems and major limitations, and the only real way out is a complete rewrite using some infrastructure like Unreal or Unity. However, doing so is a HUGE project with a ton of time and programmers on it, and I think they simply ain't got that sort of means possible. The programmers they have are enough to do what is being done (add content, revamp trees, add items, classes, races) but not to ALSO do the aforementioned re-write (and conversion). For that, someone needs to plunk down a cool million(s), bring in other programmers and run it in parallel in conjunction with the existing staff. Money and resources don't simply fall out of the sky. And no one will do this without a sense there is a payday at the end. Personally I believe there is, though it won't be overnight, But believing is easy, I'm not the company that needs to make the gamble.