U51 Preview 3 (10/19 - 10/21)

[GramercyRiff]

So this is perhaps a bit off subject, but what happened to the 3rd Legendary Dreadnaught preview thread that was posted yesterday. It looks like it was deleted on SSGs end. Was there something wrong with that tree as posted that required thread deletion, or was it an accident?

Yeah this is too weird. I was looking for LD and I couldn't find it.

[BLaKxDYNAMITE]

Is this the last update 51 preview? Are we going to see the new monk changes in this update without a preview?

[elvesunited]

Yeah this is too weird. I was looking for LD and I couldn't find it.

Near as I can tell the thread got toxic so I'm guessing Steelstar axed it.

Since the thread no longer exists I'll put my hopefully constructive thoughts here

--- Thoughts and Testing for Legendary Dreadnought -----

Dire Charge works well.

Destiny Mantle does about 15 points per stack. So adding 5 stacks at a time averaging ..... 75, 150, 225. Reaper of course reduces this further.
This real needs to scale. ( preferably with melee power ) It does the same damage at level 23 as it does at 30. I would also increase the stack size to 25.

The biggest issue with this destiny is it is so specialized. Its the action boost and tactics destiny. Characters that use both are actually a fairly tiny subsection. Too many abilties that require action boosts to work makes the tree inaccessible to characters that don't use action boosts. In particular the action boost requirement in the mantle shouldn't be there.

One could say that if a character doesn't have action boosts then they can get one from Legendary Dreadnought except the action boost being offered isn't a practical one. Tactics are primarily for taking down trash mobs. If you need to use an action boost for your tactics to affect trash than your tactics DC is lacking and you will run out of action boosts long before you run out of trash. Instead I prefer to use action boosts on enemies that tactics do not work on. Action boost:haste is among the most popular as it scales well into harder difficulty but action boost Doublestrike also scales well.

The Tier 5 abilities are very good

Except for the epic moment. The epic moment is weak. Lets compare:

Fury: +1000 unconscious range, heals 10% max hp, gets adrenaline charge, quick cutter charge, and great leveler cooldown reset every 5 seconds for 30 seconds.

Dreadnought Epic Moment: +30 melee power, +15 AC, +15 PRR, +15% dodge, +30 doublestrike, +15 uncapped dodge, +30% attack speed for 40 seconds

Dreadnought lags way behind. You could accidentally click it and not realize you had your epic moment. Instead I would suggest:

Improved Dreadnought Epic Moment: Double PRR and MRR. +30% attack speed. +50% melee/ranged power. All enemies in range get full stack of terror.
( and if possible the character should display some sort of dread glow to advertise the boost )

[Pandjed]

So this is perhaps a bit off subject, but what happened to the 3rd Legendary Dreadnaught preview thread that was posted yesterday. It looks like it was deleted on SSGs end. Was there something wrong with that tree as posted that required thread deletion, or was it an accident?

I can only guess here, but considering that I actually got dev-feedback there and was interesting how it's gone, I can tell that there were several possibilities why the devs deleted/moved that thread for starters as a short-gag measure to prevent further escalation before they go home for the day. I won't repeat them to not cause another problem, especially since that's just my assumptions.

[GramercyRiff]

Improved Dreadnought Epic Moment: Double PRR and MRR. +30% attack speed. +50% melee/ranged power. All enemies in range get full stack of terror.
( and if possible the character should display some sort of dread glow to advertise the boost )

Looks and sounds horrifying. I love it.

[Cadveen]

Tentative Update on Arcane Tempest:

1: We're making no changes to the damage BECAUSE:
2: The damage is actually still 1d6+6 per caster level BUT:
3: Because before this was an SLA that overwrote the base spells' description, and the base spell has just had an incorrect description since forever SO:
4: We're just going to be fixing that description to match its current damage of 1d6+6 and stop there.

If that makes no sense to you I'm sorry but this has just been a really bizarre loop around on my end and I'm happy I can just fix the description and call it good :P (and yes, it's still going to be a level 8 wiz/sor, level 6 art/wlk) That being said, these numbers may still change, as it might be too strong for level 8/6 as compared to level 9!

I would just offer if the half-casters get it at level 6, then it would be appropriate for Wiz/Sorcs to get it at level 6,7,8, or 9. I feel 8th level would be appropriate if a half-caster ends up getting it at level 6.

V/r

[elvesunited]

Is this the last update 51 preview? Are we going to see the new monk changes in this update without a preview?

I think we'll see one more nearly finalized update. At least one tree ( Shadowdancer ) is going to make a significant change to its epic strikes that I think warrants testing. Other trees have a few items ( like Exalted Angel's epic moment ) that still aren't ready for testing. But if we do get another update preview then most of it will be set in stone and primarily for bugs and tweaking.

[J1NG]

Tentative Update on Arcane Tempest:

1: We're making no changes to the damage BECAUSE:
2: The damage is actually still 1d6+6 per caster level BUT:
3: Because before this was an SLA that overwrote the base spells' description, and the base spell has just had an incorrect description since forever SO:
4: We're just going to be fixing that description to match its current damage of 1d6+6 and stop there.

If that makes no sense to you I'm sorry but this has just been a really bizarre loop around on my end and I'm happy I can just fix the description and call it good :P (and yes, it's still going to be a level 8 wiz/sor, level 6 art/wlk) That being said, these numbers may still change, as it might be too strong for level 8/6 as compared to level 9!

Meh, and there I was off doing tests to narrow down what was going on in the Vale with Arcane Tempest. Now it wasn't even needed to do so!

Those many Botha - I mean, Rats, died. Without even bringing us any new information...

J1NG

[Baahb3]

[*]There is a new Epic Past Life feat, to accompany the new Magus of the Eclipse Tree. Eclipse Power: Arcane Past Life Stance: +1 Spell Penetration per stack of this Past Life. Passive Bonus: +1% Absorption of Acid, Cold, Electric, and Fire damage per stack of this feat. Like other Epic Past Life feats, this can be acquired up to three times.

Sorry if this was answered before, I was too lazy to search.

With Magister being canned...

Will we be loosing the 10% Arcane Alacrity if we already have it?
How about the 3% Absorption?
Will we be forced to re-earn 3 Arcane past lives to re-acquire an Epic Completionist if the Arcane Alacrity past lives are getting deleted?
Will our Arcane Alacrity past lives be converted to Eclipse Power past lives if you are taking away our Magister past lives?

[Pandjed]

Sorry if this was answered before, I was too lazy to search.

With Magister being canned...

Will we be loosing the 10% Arcane Alacrity if we already have it?
How about the 3% Absorption?
Will we be forced to re-earn 3 Arcane past lives to re-acquire an Epic Completionist if the Arcane Alacrity past lives are getting deleted?
Will our Arcane Alacrity past lives be converted to Eclipse Power past lives if you are taking away our Magister past lives?

As it's not mentioned that Arcane Alacrity is being removed and my copied characters could use Arcane Alacrity, I'm very sure that it will just stay. It's not like an EPL technically relates to a ED (though some of them mirror certain ED enhancements), otherwise we would have 16 instead of 12 destinies, right?

[rabidfox]

Sorry if this was answered before, I was too lazy to search.

With Magister being canned...

Will we be loosing the 10% Arcane Alacrity if we already have it?
How about the 3% Absorption?
Will we be forced to re-earn 3 Arcane past lives to re-acquire an Epic Completionist if the Arcane Alacrity past lives are getting deleted?
Will our Arcane Alacrity past lives be converted to Eclipse Power past lives if you are taking away our Magister past lives?

It's just a new epic past life being added, nothing is going away. So it'll be a total of 51 EPLs instead of the current 48 possible.

[JOTMON]

To be clear, the spell itself has not changed beyond getting an additional Damage Over Time component. If you're saying that you'd rather it just do the neg level stuff and not also do the damage over time, well, I'm not really quite sure what to make of that.

I thought i was pretty clear. Enervation is a de-levelling spell not a necro dot spell.

Necrotic bolt, ray, etc.. didn't get a dot added and they are neg energy damage spells.

We're also planning on adding Arcane Tempest to Warlock level 6, as per earlier in the thread

Warlocks only have 2 spell options. Epic destinies added over and above.
I don't believe it was definitely intended to give Warlock a spell in the prior thread conversation., just considered. (the original post was giving nothing to warlocks)
players will now be given the option to trade a high level spell to take one of these new spells that we used to have over and above our current spell list.
These also transition from low mana cost SLA's to high cost +meta spells.

you side stepped my question of... why not make these level 10 spells accessible when achieving Epic levels.
This way players dont lose their lineup of current spells to get back something they had with epic destinies.
and as level 10 spells they can retain their high level access and power value.

We're not changing the level up flow for Heroics at all, so no heart is necessary. That being said, we're absolutely messing with stuff all up and down the Epic leveling experience, which is why we're giving everyone affected a +5 heart. Hopefully that explanation clears some things up for you!

kind of.
Everyone who is level 20+ will get the heart on the assumption they will use it to fix their newly busted builds and redo their heroic levels.
Those that have TR'd and in the midst of levelling and dont hit 20 before the update will instead go straight into the new epics without a heart to fix their heroic characters to align with new epics.

so my comment on that was.. be level 20 before the update or dont get a +5 heart.

[Baahb3]

It's just a new epic past life being added, nothing is going away. So it'll be a total of 51 EPLs instead of the current 48 possible.

While I would be surprised if they kept it, I don't see them letting old players keep it while new players never having the opportunity to acquire it. I guess we will see.

[slarden]

I would just offer if the half-casters get it at level 6, then it would be appropriate for Wiz/Sorcs to get it at level 6,7,8, or 9. I feel 8th level would be appropriate if a half-caster ends up getting it at level 6.

V/r

Every level 6 spell a warlock has is a level 8 or 9 sorc/wizard spell. There has never been a notion that level 6 warlock spells are equal to level 6 sorc/wizard spells. Warlock just has a much smaller spell selection and that itself is the penalty - not weaker spells. If they drop it down to a level 6 wizard spell that just makes it weaker damage - the whole idea is to keep this spell useful at epic levels not to make it a heroic level spell.

I actually like the idea presented earlier of adding level 7 or 10 spells only available at 20 - or alternatively adding them to the spellbook at 20 rather than toning down the damage.

[rabidfox]

While I would be surprised if they kept it, I don't see them letting old players keep it while new players never having the opportunity to acquire it. I guess we will see.

We already have 4x EPL per sphere (1 more than destinies per so having extra beyond the 3x isn't something new). And with u51, it'll be three at 4x per with one being 5x per. Anyone will still be able to acquire it.

[Baahb3]

We already have 4x EPL per sphere (1 more than destinies per so having extra beyond the 3x isn't something new). And with u51, it'll be three at 4x per with one being 5x per. Anyone will still be able to acquire it.

Ah, yes, I suppose it will just be available as an Arcane past life.

My bad on all of this.

[Siltharius]

DC casters are taking some serious hits here. There is a good size DC drop here. I saw that you stated reaper saves were dropping to help balance that, so that is good. But on top of that, we are looking at a few hundred SP points less and what about the SR?

Will you be decreasing the amount of SR creatures have? You have really screwed undead enchanter necro's here. And that is even a theme you have built into the Pale Master tree with vamps getting the enchant bonus and such.

So with Magister and fate points, you can get those 6 Int points of course, then over in the Fate Points, twist in something like Arcane Hymn. So there is another + Int and +2 Spell Pen.

Twist in Piercing Spellcraft for another +3 Spell Pen. Twist in another Int point. So a caster has just lost 8 Int and 5 Spell Pen.

In the new system... what take that Bard tree... sonic? Really? Most of it is just a waste for a Enchant Necro, but a couple of things make it a must. I didn't see any other trees offering Spell Pen. So there is the Spell Pen you get from Magister, which means still at a -5 Spell Pen net.

And it has a +3 Enchant DC. The rest of what you can get in there... meh. Yea, you can get the Arcane Hymn back... but if you want the benefits like the Spell Pen you have to have the Bard Mantle active? What undead DC caster would want that mantle on? Like they are wasting skill points on a cross class skill like perform? Already trying to max out that other cross class Heal skill.

And that Caster tree is already meh... Necro and Cold? Really? Cold? Not even Force? Would have to look into the Shadowdancer or Shriadi tree for force. And if you are pure dc wiz, besides picking some force sp and the enchant dc's its all meh.

Over all, I would say it's meh. Depending on if you actually lowered SR on mobs. I didn't test. If you didn't well it doesn't even rank as high as Meh then. If you did... it could rank as high as meh. All you really ended up doing was nerfing CC / Necro some to give them a few SLA's so they can do damage instead. Which they could already do with dots.

Not really a good trade off. Time stop... for a CC caster that already has a bunch of holds and such. Meh. The black hole... which is Evocation DC but does neg damage... so a weak dc when dc's have already just been nerfed. Great....

PS: Are you fixing pets yet? Augment slots still don't seem to work for their gear, they get none of the benefits. Some of the collars don't even seem to add the various damage types listed on them that aren't from augments. I'm sure you guys are aware that has been an issue for a while now.

[Aelonwy]

Not sure where else to link this... not the best image but my character is standing... not swimming at the bottom of the lake surrounding Wynwood Hall in Feywild.



Had to brighten it up it was very dark.

Just a weird bug discussed during the devchat.

[Vish]

Ok I took another look t5

Y’all doing great work
Lots of things I’m seeing I like

Being away a bit,
It’ll be fun to come back and test some stuffs

Good work team

[Archfae]

I would just offer if the half-casters get it at level 6, then it would be appropriate for Wiz/Sorcs to get it at level 6,7,8, or 9. I feel 8th level would be appropriate if a half-caster ends up getting it at level 6.

V/r

Thats not how the half caster scalings work.

See warlock level 6 spells: wail, mass hold monster, trap the soul, etc.

Roughly the breakdown for wiz/sorc to lock spell levels is:

8th/9th level sorc/wiz -> 6th level warlock
6th/7th level sorc/wiz -> 5th level warlock
5th/6th level sorc/wiz -> 4th level warlock
3rd/4th level sorc/wiz -> 3rd level warlock
2nd/3rd level sorc/wiz -> 2nd level warlock
1st/2nd level sorc/wiz -> 1st level warlock

The only exception to this scaling are pact spells in cold, lightning, and negative packs. (Why they deviated when they added the recent pact options idk, but when warlock was introduced this was the very clear guidelines for spell levels).

Bard also has very similar conversions but also isnt purely arcane, so it isn't as clean cut but generally still works. Artificer and alchemist are harder yo gauge just because they have very unique spells so there's nothing to go on conversion wise.