Greatsword or Quarterstaff?

[Annex]

Hey. After two days of Night Revels using a Greatsword wielding Paladin, I decided to retrain my pure Human Cleric on a two handed weapon via an Epic reset. This will occur a few days from now.

After reviewing various possible ways to train her, it became clear that both Greatsword and Quarterstaff will work as a Favored Weapon. However, Greatsword requires The Book of War from Divine Crusader, a Tier 4 Twist of Fate. The upcoming Epic Destiny overhaul entirely removes this skill and I can find no replacement.

For a solo, melee, Strength based Cleric without access to Raid items, is there some inherent advantage to Greatsword over Quarterstaff?

Other players seemed to prefer Greatsword but no one explained why. Swords to Plowshares obviously requires an extra Feat slot but Greatsword requires a Twist of Fate so that evens out. My Cleric could use Greatsword for now and switch to Quarterstaff after the overhaul. The Stout Oak Walking Stick and Sworn Silver Greatsword are both easy to acquire. However, if I can jump straight to Quarterstaff I may as well do that.

Thank you for your consideration!

[Nugaot]

Tier 3 of divine crusader let you get the favored weapon of any religion in preview 2, so you could pick it up and still go t5 in another destiny. Quarterstaff is generally lower base damage than a great sword which is made up for by the attack speed bonuses qstaff gets from 20 monk or a rogue splash. If you wanted to you could skip the favored weapon stuff and just pick greats word anyways.

[Annex]

Oh. I see now. I was looking for The Book of War but now it is Axiom of Faith through a change of deity. I wonder what the former deity thinks of that. I mean, if one of my _Epic_ priests decided to change religion on me and adopt an entirely different faith, I would smite that jerk dead. Even if the jerk survived, how could the new deity ever trust the jerk? How does the jerk suddenly learn the teachings of an _entire religion_? I thought becoming a priest took years of study and training. Sheesh.

Now I see how the base damage for high level Quarterstaves is way behind Greatswords. I totally missed that.

So, Quarterstaff and Stout Oak Walking Stick to 23, then waste all my points and change my ENTIRE RELIGION to pick up Greatsword. Got it.

Thank you!

[spifflove]

Oh. I see now. I was looking for The Book of War but now it is Axiom of Faith through a change of deity. I wonder what the former deity thinks of that. I mean, if one of my _Epic_ priests decided to change religion on me and adopt an entirely different faith, I would smite that jerk dead. Even if the jerk survived, how could the new deity ever trust the jerk? How does the jerk suddenly learn the teachings of an _entire religion_? I thought becoming a priest took years of study and training. Sheesh.
Thank you!

Or maybe he would give all jerks an equal space to repent, say 120 years or so plus or minus career reducing smites.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

A quarterstaff has imho by far the better animation ... But that's just my personal opinion.

[Gnominal_Aphasia]

The problem with melee Cleric is that they are not so good... taking melee feats will get you a mediocre (at best) melee build and a nerfed caster. I would always take Quarterstaff [Bastard Sword works well too] for free level 6 Deity feat proving temp buff of +4 WIS and +3 Spell Penetration. I am a big fan of Death domain (Animal is good too imho) and Light Divine Disciple route, giving you some great SLAs and having enough heroic feats to make them count.

Greatswords provide much better DPS than Quarterstaffs (higher base damage, better crit profile) if you really do want to go melee; I think you have a choice for Domains... the obvious Strength and War domains, but if you have the Falconry tree, you could opt for Animal and go Wisdom-based netting you +200 health during Heroics, +15% fortification bypass, the Feral Charge cc ability and a 20 second +10 CON buff from Turn Undead in Epics.

I've just posted a Hardcore caster Cleric build... haven't tested it on my main but as a first life build it's good in heroics

EDIT FYI, I have a dedicated first life Iconic Sun Domain Cleric that I use to farm Mabar.

[NemesisAlien]

Oh. I see now. I was looking for The Book of War but now it is Axiom of Faith through a change of deity. I wonder what the former deity thinks of that. I mean, if one of my _Epic_ priests decided to change religion on me and adopt an entirely different faith, I would smite that jerk dead. Even if the jerk survived, how could the new deity ever trust the jerk? How does the jerk suddenly learn the teachings of an _entire religion_? I thought becoming a priest took years of study and training. Sheesh.

Now I see how the base damage for high level Quarterstaves is way behind Greatswords. I totally missed that.

So, Quarterstaff and Stout Oak Walking Stick to 23, then waste all my points and change my ENTIRE RELIGION to pick up Greatsword. Got it.

Thank you!

Hve you noticed stormreach is infested with cults? Cult of this, cult of that, wont be surprise if there is a cult of your teddy bear.

[Annex]

Or maybe he would give all jerks an equal space to repent, say 120 years or so plus or minus career reducing smites.

*laughs* That would make a funny story. A cleric changes deity. The cleric's original deity gives him 120 years to repent. The cleric's new deity tells him that if he tries to leave, he will suffer some terrible fate. As the 120 year mark approaches, the cleric becomes more and more anxious because regardless of the deity he chooses, he is doomed.

[Annex]

A quarterstaff has imho by far the better animation ... But that's just my personal opinion.

I will tell you a story. About 8 months back I rebuilt my Epic Paladin for Greatsword and Strikethrough. I was not terribly impressed. She can chop down packs of monsters but takes a ton of damage in the process. The Cleave-Cleave-Cleave-Smite attack sequence and animations were just not doing it for me.

After making some Epic go rounds to unlock all Destinies, I was finally able to put her into Unyielding Sentinel with good Twists of Fate for Night Revels. Whoa, Nellie! I have never played such a powerful character. After two nights running around in the Graveyard, I decided to retrain more of my characters for Two Handed Fighting and Strikethrough.

Since I already have a character with a Greatsword I decided to try a Monk. Actually, I tried three Monks with the third using a Quarterstaff. She was pretty awful but as you write, the Quarterstaff animations are kinda fun (though completely inaccurate).

At this point I decided to switch my Cleric from Daggers to Quarterstaff. That led to much reading, this thread, more reading, and a final decision to retrain for the Greatsword instead. I would prefer her to use the Quarterstaff but as Gnominal_Aphasia points out, melee Clerics already kinda suck without making the situation intentionally worse. One of my Rogues will retrain for Quarterstaff.

[Annex]

The problem with melee Cleric is that they are not so good... taking melee feats will get you a mediocre (at best) melee build and a nerfed caster. I would always take Quarterstaff [Bastard Sword works well too] for free level 6 Deity feat proving temp buff of +4 WIS and +3 Spell Penetration. I am a big fan of Death domain (Animal is good too imho) and Light Divine Disciple route, giving you some great SLAs and having enough heroic feats to make them count.

Greatswords provide much better DPS than Quarterstaffs (higher base damage, better crit profile) if you really do want to go melee; I think you have a choice for Domains... the obvious Strength and War domains, but if you have the Falconry tree, you could opt for Animal and go Wisdom-based netting you +200 health during Heroics, +15% fortification bypass, the Feral Charge cc ability and a 20 second +10 CON buff from Turn Undead in Epics.

I've just posted a Hardcore caster Cleric build... haven't tested it on my main but as a first life build it's good in heroics

EDIT FYI, I have a dedicated first life Iconic Sun Domain Cleric that I use to farm Mabar.

Thank you for your advice, Gnominal_Aphasia! Since I do not own Falconry, I plan on making a Strength based follower of Aureon using The Book of War for Greatsword. Having played a number of mediocre Dagger Clerics in the recent past, my expectations remain low.

Over the years I have tried many different Cleric and Wizard casters in DDO, all of which sucked. The only reason my Cleric remains a Cleric is because I do not enjoy Heroic Levels.

[Annex]

Hve you noticed stormreach is infested with cults? Cult of this, cult of that, wont be surprise if there is a cult of your teddy bear.

Oh, great. The Stormreach Teddy Bear Company is a front for Xoriat cultists. Is nothing sacred?

[Gnominal_Aphasia]

Thank you for your advice, Gnominal_Aphasia! Since I do not own Falconry, I plan on making a Strength based follower of Aureon using The Book of War for Greatsword. Having played a number of mediocre Dagger Clerics in the recent past, my expectations remain low.

Over the years I have tried many different Cleric and Wizard casters in DDO, all of which sucked. The only reason my Cleric remains a Cleric is because I do not enjoy Heroic Levels.

FYI, Divine Crusader post-update 51 will replace Book of War with Axiom of Faith.

Falconry is unlockable, beit with a big 700 favor in The Free Agents. Of course, historically, you could never achieve 700 favor with a F2P account until now! If you haven't seen this, type in DDOQUESTS2021 code in DDO store and get ALL quests for free. Forever. Also, three expansions are available for 99 DDO points each (you can create 3 new characters and farm this amount very fast). Do it if you haven't got them!

Caster Clerics are the better DPS Clerics. By far.

After all that, if you truly do wish to play a Strength-based melee Cleric, you could consider multi-classing:

Cleric 14 provides all Domain bonuses, so a Cleric 14 / Paladin 6, or Fighter 6, or Barbarian 6 would all work. Paladin would probably be the weakest in terms of DPS but would have the best saves. Barbarian would be the highest DPS, and couple that with the Destruction Domain, you could Heal while Raging. Fighter would be a close 2nd in terms of DPS and you'd get 4 free feats. Both Fighter and Paladin would allow you to play as a Tank [one-handed weapon and shield] or a self-buffing Vanguard monster... sure, less DPS than a two-handed version, but with more cc.

Good luck!

[NemesisAlien]

Oh, great. The Stormreach Teddy Bear Company is a front for Xoriat cultists. Is nothing sacred?

Yes, koblod union

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I will tell you a story. About 8 months back I rebuilt my Epic Paladin for Greatsword and Strikethrough. I was not terribly impressed. She can chop down packs of monsters but takes a ton of damage in the process. The Cleave-Cleave-Cleave-Smite attack sequence and animations were just not doing it for me.

After making some Epic go rounds to unlock all Destinies, I was finally able to put her into Unyielding Sentinel with good Twists of Fate for Night Revels. Whoa, Nellie! I have never played such a powerful character. After two nights running around in the Graveyard, I decided to retrain more of my characters for Two Handed Fighting and Strikethrough.

Since I already have a character with a Greatsword I decided to try a Monk. Actually, I tried three Monks with the third using a Quarterstaff. She was pretty awful but as you write, the Quarterstaff animations are kinda fun (though completely inaccurate).

At this point I decided to switch my Cleric from Daggers to Quarterstaff. That led to much reading, this thread, more reading, and a final decision to retrain for the Greatsword instead. I would prefer her to use the Quarterstaff but as Gnominal_Aphasia points out, melee Clerics already kinda suck without making the situation intentionally worse. One of my Rogues will retrain for Quarterstaff.

I agree that there are far better weapons to play with. But - I was writing about the animations. I really prefer them over any other fighting animations.

[Annex]

FYI, Divine Crusader post-update 51 will replace Book of War with Axiom of Faith.

Yeah. That came up further up thread. It requires L23 and a bunch of Epic Trait Points but remains possible.

Falconry is unlockable, beit with a big 700 favor in The Free Agents. Of course, historically, you could never achieve 700 favor with a F2P account until now! If you haven't seen this, type in DDOQUESTS2021 code in DDO store and get ALL quests for free. Forever. Also, three expansions are available for 99 DDO points each (you can create 3 new characters and farm this amount very fast). Do it if you haven't got them!

Reaching 700 Free Agents Favor is on Sophie's big list of things she will never accomplish because she sucks. It's fine.

Caster Clerics are the better DPS Clerics. By far.

My experience was very different. For me, casters in this game are unplayable . Years ago, I asked all sorts of questions and tried to make a decent caster but...no. No. Not again. No.

After all that, if you truly do wish to play a Strength-based melee Cleric, you could consider multi-classing:

Cleric 14 provides all Domain bonuses, so a Cleric 14 / Paladin 6, or Fighter 6, or Barbarian 6 would all work. Paladin would probably be the weakest in terms of DPS but would have the best saves. Barbarian would be the highest DPS, and couple that with the Destruction Domain, you could Heal while Raging. Fighter would be a close 2nd in terms of DPS and you'd get 4 free feats. Both Fighter and Paladin would allow you to play as a Tank [one-handed weapon and shield] or a self-buffing Vanguard monster... sure, less DPS than a two-handed version, but with more cc.

I do not want to play a Cleric at all! I do not like them. I do not like them with a name like Sam. I do not like them with green eggs and ham. I have an Epic Cleric so I want to train her into something as decent as possible that I understand. If I ever take her back to level 1, she will not be a Cleric anymore. Maybe she will become a cruise director. That would be fun.

Good luck!

Thank you! I am not being a shrew on purpose. I love healers and wizards in other games but hate them in DDO. That's just the way it is.

[Annex]

I agree that there are far better weapons to play with. But - I was writing about the animations. I really prefer them over any other fighting animations.

Did you see that U51 will increase something or other with Quarterstaves so they do more damage? Heady stuff, that.

[Annex]

So, I finally retrained my Cleric for Greatsword and ended up with an unkillable character who fights with auto attacks and does very mediocre damage.

Deity is Quarterstaff Guy. That's totally his official name.

Feats:
1 Two Handed Fighting
1 Follower of the Quarterstaff Guy
1 Extend Spell: She needs this for when she casts spells on my other characters. That's her normal gig.
2 Domain of War
3 Precision
5 Improved Domain of War
6 Something I will never use but had to take that I have already forgotten the name of
6 Quicken Spell
9 Greater Domain of War
9 Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
14 Mistress of the Domain of War: She embraces her inner Inanna.
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Empower Healing Spell

Enhancements
A bunch of stuff in Warpriest
Some stuff in Human for more Strength and some Strike-through and Greater Heroism because I had nothing else to spend the points on.
Some stuff in Vistant Knife Fighter which is weird but I had nothing else to spend the points on.

I thought I would get some decent Cleaves from Warpriest buy yeah. No. The top tier Cleave-like not Cleave, which has a weird name I forget, takes, like, a MILLION YEARS to produce a charge to use and is almost useless. The basic Smite has a 12 second cooldown so I just auto-attack forever until it comes up and it only hits one target.

Why am I trying to make my Cleric into a Paladin again?

Twists of Fate
Book of War Greatsword: Required to make this work and burns the best Twist slot which sucks.
Consecration: What does a Cleric with lots of healing need? Yeah. More healing.
Fast Healing: See above.
Cocoon: Why am I taking yet more healing? What is wrong with me?

Epic Destiny
Unyielding Sentinel: I need to recharge that sphere and since I had no idea what would happen I played it safe.

For my first test I took her into Delara's Graveyard at Level 20 (her level) and cleared it in 7 minutes. That is pretty not good but she took zero damage.

For my second test, I took her into The Black Loch on Epic Hard and went straight to the Zombie Room. It took a few minutes but I was kinda proud of her. The Mysterious Remnants pilied up at her feet, then some Night Revels Chests appeared in mid air, and then it was all over and she still had not taken any damage. Anyway, it took 22 minutes to complete.

So, I accidentally built a solo not tank tank. *shakes head*

She has all sorts of defense skills but no really useful special attacks which sucks because I was trying for something Paladinish. That's totally a word. The one Cleave is strong but takes so long to charge up that I basically wanted to put a brick on my left mouse button and make cookies or something.

For the next go round, I will replace Quicken Spell and Empower Healing Spell with Power Attack and Cleave. I may give up Precision for Great Cleave and take it later in Epic levels. Dunno. Clerics are really not designed for this sort of nonsense.

Having no access to Falconry leaves lots of Trait Points for whatever. Strength and Strike-through from Human are actually useful. All the defensive stuff from Vistani Knife Fighter also seems useful. Dunno.

In Warpriest, I think I will dump some of this defensive junk and try the other little attacks but they are not Cleaves so I doubt they will do much.

Instead of Unyielding Sentinel, I should probably try...something. I guess I need to experiment.

The strange journey of the Greatsword using Cleric continues...

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Did you see that U51 will increase something or other with Quarterstaves so they do more damage? Heady stuff, that.

This topic's title was simple :

Greatsword or Quarterstaff?

This topic's title did contain nothing about damage or power.