Revisiting the Fire Savant

[Marshal_Lannes]

I've not played a sorcerer since the adjustments made to casters. Heck, I've not played a sorcerer since before fire savants even existed. But many a year ago I enjoyed playing a fire specialized sorcerer enough that I did three sorcerer lives with it. After reading much grief in these forums on how the sorcerer was now unplayable I've decided to test that hypothesis. Recently TR'd from an Alchemist (another supposedly nerfed into the ground class - spoiler alert, it's perfectly fine) I will be exploring the class here focusing on gameplay choices and how it handles content.

Never having played a Tiefling sorcerer before this is my preferred choice both for the racial fire power affinity, the look of the avatar, and the racial past life (charisma). Starting abilities are fairly straightforward here, you drop 20 into charisma and take an 18 constitution. This is why casters always feel a bit tanky, they only have two stats on which to focus. Spell choice through the first three levels (we get a rather spartan 2 choices at level 1 then 1 at 2&3.) are Sonic blast, Nightshield, Jump then whatever you find more useful out of Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Charm Person, or Flaming Bolt. DPS casting in reaper Borderlands/Harbor is focused on a Maximized Burning Hands SLA and Sonic Blast (for the stun can be situationally maximized for full DPS). This simple combination mows down mobs being strong enough for me to reaper solo Borderlands including some rather unlucky triplicate reaper spawns. Sidebar - I swear the low-level quests spawn an inordinate number of reapers. If I can solo quests on reaper with a level 2 caster what are we going to be doing at level 12? The key item right now is the Tattered Gloves from Captives which gives 12% Fire Lore. This is an incredible ML2 item.

A few items to pick up that are useful are a wand of blur. Since getting spells at low level can be a laborious process for the sorcerer it might be a while before you have blur. At the very least you, or I anyway, won't have it at 4. A resist energy want is also useful here for the same reasons. Blur is especially useful since the standard tactic is getting masses of mobs close to you so can knock them all out with Burning Hands. Burning Hands is a spectacular spell since it seems to have no maximum number of targets it can hit as long as they are within your limited just beyond touch range. My level 4 spell choice will be Scorching Ray. Scorching Ray has always been an ace of a spell at low levels capable of knocking out red names. It also complements our Burning Hands tactics rather well. I can use the SR to knock out those Kobald shamans who resist rushing you while BH takes out the cannon fodder.

My initial impression of the sorcerer revisit is that it feels far stronger at levels 2 and 3 than a class that gets increasingly more powerful as it levels than you'd think.

[Hulligan]

My initial impression of the sorcerer revisit is that it feels far stronger at levels 2 and 3 than a class that gets increasingly more powerful as it levels than you'd think.

If you put it all together all by yourself without external help after such a long gap of not playing sorc, then truly you understand DDO and much kudos to you bro.
I play sorc way too often when working on racial past lives (have a few on my toons) simply because sorcerer is soo strong from very early in the game and you can simply blast yourself through the game till 20 or heck even 30 if you wish so.
The spell selection is perfect, I personally took merfolk as 4th lvl1 spell for the reason it boosts speed underwater - and speed is among the main factors playing this game. You don't want to be slow and sorcerer is exceptionally fast to level, especially if you add lightning from 10 (lightning ball) or bit later.. but no later than 12 (wind dance, chain lightning from 13).
And that is on top of being fire specced.

Staying on low levels I recommend adding acid, because many mobs start getting fire immunity from around lvl 5.
By level 3 you should have maximize+empower and SLA burning hands + acid spray which is more than enough to kill any group in lvl 2-3 quests.
On level 4, take scorching ray, at level 6 acid blast. Alternatively if you have quite some racial AP and can invest in tiefling scorch, you can take fireball for the reason you can strip off enemy fire immunity.
No changes till 10, when I swap out acid to electric and go fire+electric onwards.
Chain Lightning at 12 kick ass, and from 14 you'll have delayed blast fireball (DBF), the two combined will clear out any and all trash you may come across up until reaper 1.
On 18 I usually take Thunderstroke because meteor while being superior is better only to clear out trash - for which you already have chain lightning + dbf, no more extra dmg needed. Thunderstroke however will blast all rednames usually killing them outright (8-10K dmg on heroic r1 is HUGE) or leaving them barely alive.
You can't really outkill a sorcerer while levelling, if he doesn't want to, and that's a fact. Alchemist maybe the only true challenger of a sorc, with the only drawback that pot throwing can be slow, sometimes painfully too slow, plus you have to pay attention to the throwing curve to not hit the ceiling (indoors quests).

[Marshal_Lannes]

Hulligan, have you made a 2-piece LGS equipment or Ash weapon? If so I'd like to pick your brain on them for a sorcerer. I took Acid Blast for Fire Caves and was debating going acid with Acid Rain which I sort of always liked and Acid Well but I've seen Chain Lightning be so effective in quests that I might go electric as my off-cast. Have never used Thuderstroke.

Levels 6-8 felt like playing in God Mode. Overwhelming, destructive DPS that burns all content. Mouse button Maximize/Empowered Scorch and Burning Hands and a Maximized Fireball are a terrifying combination at this range. Equipment is a 5-piece Feywild set with the Tattered Gloves and a L4 Flaming Forum Post. Haven't even looked in the bank from Level 5 because I'm simply overpowering quests. Reapers are one-shotted. In groups, I sometimes stop casting because I know how annoying it can be for melees when a sorcerer is racking up kills like points on a pinball machine. I just came from playing an Ice Bombadier Alchemist. Extremely strong class but because of the vial arc and my likely my first time playing the class it was nowhere near the sheer power the fire savant has at these levels.

[Riffolk]

I've not played a sorcerer since the adjustments made to casters. Heck, I've not played a sorcerer since before fire savants even existed. But many a year ago I enjoyed playing a fire specialized sorcerer enough that I did three sorcerer lives with it. After reading much grief in these forums on how the sorcerer was now unplayable I've decided to test that hypothesis. Recently TR'd from an Alchemist (another supposedly nerfed into the ground class - spoiler alert, it's perfectly fine) I will be exploring the class here focusing on gameplay choices and how it handles content.

DPS casting in reaper Borderlands/Harbor is focused on a Maximized Burning Hands SLA and Sonic Blast (for the stun can be situationally maximized for full DPS). This simple combination mows down mobs being strong enough for me to reaper solo Borderlands including some rather unlucky triplicate reaper spawns.

My initial impression of the sorcerer revisit is that it feels far stronger at levels 2 and 3 than a class that gets increasingly more powerful as it levels than you'd think.

Just wanted to toss in my 2 cents on the comment about 'nerfed into the ground'.

I'd completely agree with you that Sorcerer feels excellent overall leveling through heroics. In fact, I think it's pretty commonly accepted that Sorc is in the top 3, if not #1, for leveling speed through heroics.
However, the difficulty in saying something is overpowered in one area of gameplay doesn't correlate with it being overpowered in other areas.

In my experience I would break down gameplay into these categories: (others may disagree)
1) Heroic leveling (usually R1, though most players could likely run R4+ comfortably)
2) Epic leveling (usually R1 quests, EH/EN dailies + slayers)
3) Legendary questing (usually as many Skulls as a group can handle)
4) Legendary raids (LH/R1 pugs, tougher in guilds + discord groups)

So while nuker Sorc crushes 1) and 2) it can struggle with 3) and 4).

3) With the "meta" being run legendary quests on high reaper, Sorc struggles to overcome the damage necessary to bring down mobs with higher hp.
Some Sorcerers I've grouped with are successful DPS casting up to ~R5 and then really struggle past R8.
I'm currently running a Tiefling Fire Sorc on my main and I'm just finishing up gearing. I can currently solo ~R3 but I don't have the DCs to CC mobs consistently into R6+ and my DPS isn't enough to outpace boss fights.

4) I think this is where Sorcs struggle the most, legendary raiding. If bosses had too many hp for sorc dps to be effective in quests, raid bosses just exacerbate the problem. No casters have the sp necessary to consistently contribute to boss dps in raids. Even sorcs + FVS, getting double sp from items, have to be cognizant of their sp use. I think Slarden's thoughts on casters in raids rings true for me, they are often useful/necessary but only to a point. In most raid groups having 1-2 tanks, 1-2 healers, 1-2 DC casters, then rest melee/ranged DPS is the most effective setup.

Sorc nuker just can't stand up to the sustained damage output necessary to bring down a boss with a few million hp.

All that said, I'm happy to continue further conversation + be corrected and be shown otherwise, just wanted to share my perspective.

[mikarddo]

Sorcs are definitely good in heroics.

Level 1-4 Sonic Blast rocks.
Level 5-11 Scorch, SLA Scorch, Fireball
but at level 12 the true power shows it self
Level 12-17/19 Chain Lightning! Its completely crazy good. Cone of Cold for the few mobs that are immune in numbers. Single target immunity removal for bosses.

Falconry Runspeed from level 4ish as running fast matters once you have the damage down. Wind Dance from level 12 so you not only do damage faster than most everyone else you also move faster so you can either bypass slow spawning mobs or get to the mobs first.
200 sp Ioun Stone from level 5 means you can maximize ordinary spells quite a bit in addition to obviously max+emp on SLAs.
Add a bard (box) for healing song and you go through the roof.

That said there are other classes that do very well in heroics as well.

In epics - pre U51 and I expect post U51 - sorcs do very well for leveling 20-29 on R1. But at cap running higher reaper or raids I wouldnt want a nuking sorc. I tend just to run stuff on R4 for fast rxp and then ETR.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Thanks for your thoughts/comments, I enjoy hearing them. Still need some insight on LGS. I'm likely going to slot a sentient gem at 29 so I can fully test out how it performs in high reaper, most likely in the Perils combustion scepter.

I'm up to level 12 and that's where I'm seeing a huge power jump again. Don't get me wrong, sorcerer is still extremely powerful from 9-11 it's just not quite god mode since I'm still using the two main spells (fireball/scorch) that was 6-8. Going through reaper Slavers in a 3-person group was a breeze and there are plenty of builds which struggle in that. However, at 12 you open up the top tier of the Fire Savant tree giving you a cheap maximized/empowered fireball and you pick up chain lightning. Casting is now Fireball, chain lightning, scorch. Room clearers.

My feat list looks like this -

1 - maximize
3 - completionist
6 - empower
9 - past life wizard
12 - heighten

I'll probably take enlarge at 15 and not sure at 18. I guess I have to take SF evocation although it depends when U51 goes live as I won't need that anymore for the destinies.

Were sorcerers always able to wear light armor? Seems like they weren't back when I was playing one. In any event, now that I've filled out Fire Savant I'm going into the other trees, and looks like I'll be light armor capable soon. One thing you should do when the anniversary rolls around - make flaming forum posts! I only made a L4 one and I'm regretting since I'm still using it (in conjunction with the Burnscar sash) and will likely do so until Wild Flame at L14. If I'd made a L8 or 12 forum post I could wear the Thrumingspark sash for the chain lightning.

Interesting side note - back in the day when Mabar existed I always made sure I had a fire sorcerer ready for the zone. It was so much fun launching Meteor Swarms across the map from up on the rocks or on top of a crypt. If you like unbridled mayhem, sorcerer is a class you should try.

Next time I'll do a full level 12 gear layout with character stats.

[Marshal_Lannes]

At level 14 here are the particulars:

(in Reaper) HPs - 673. SPs - 2363

In another thread, I stated you can go from L5 to L15 with a 5-piece Feywild set and some were flabbergasted. Well, still using a 5-piece Feywild set here lol. In addition to that set:

Goggles - Supreme Tyrant GS SP item/Cha skills
Weapon - Wild Flame with magnetism slotted, Mutilator of Minds orb
Head - Dread Admiral Tricorne greater false life, jump
Trinket - Bottle of Shadows
Belt - Burnscar sash
Gloves - Gauntlets of Innate Arcanum
Boots - Flightfoot Greaves

As you can see, I'm not even all that optimized so as I run more racial lives I will open up even more on this build. Level 15 opens up Sharn so we will be getting a fairly large boost across the board there.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I'm up to L26 so getting near the high-level reaper rubber meets the road moment. Going through early/mid-epics fire savant continues to be exemplary. I was able to solo CR35 Night Revels quests at L23. And I'm still using mostly heroic gear. In Draconic the foundational DPS spells are Fireball, Scorch (both get a 10 level boost at 24), DBF, Meteor Swarm, Chain Lightning, Red Dragon breath, Energy Burst (fire).

At 15 I took Enlarge and at 18 SF Evocation. I've found that there is no need to quicken spells except for one rather large exception - Meteor Swarm. Meteor Swarm has an awkward casting motion. It feels slow, sluggish, almost like you're casting while sinking in the sand. This annoying delivery makes casting the spell tedious. There is no fun in it. Quicken would help here but taking a feat for one spell rankles me. It's bad design. I suppose it would also help disco ball but how often are you casting that quickly as a DPS caster? And what would I get rid of? Enlarge might jump out. However, an enlarged Fireball goes across the map and Fireball gets all the free SLAs it wants plus the extra 10 levels from Master of Fire.

I wouldn't call Quicken a must-have. I'd almost call it a QoL addition since the casting of Meteor Swarm feels so unnatural. This has been the only drawback I've found to the sorcerer.

[C-Dog]

Were sorcerers always able to wear light armor? Seems like they weren't back when I was playing one...

Correct - there were some builds that wore Armor via a Feat (or two), but the big diff came a couple years ago when the Eldritch Knight tree got reworked. Now, 11 AP in EK and you can wear Light np, and they can go on to Medium if they can get a little ASF love from another source (augment, drow/elf, etc.).

Sim w/ a Sorcerer using a Shield (tho' that often requires Crafting one custom).

...In any event, now that I've filled out Fire Savant I'm going into the other trees...

EK tree; the "2-savant" builds have taken a back seat to "1-Savant + EK" due to the massive boost in survivability. Most builds today go ~40-41 in main Savant, 11-31 in EK, and the rest wherever (racial, Feywild, 2nd Savant, etc.). While the survivability from EK is awesome, each core also adds Universal Power, adding to DPS. Money.

[Hitstorm]

I'm thinking about trying fire savant again, but not sure if i should go Tiefling or Dragonborn. It seems to boil down to +8% crit vs +3DC's and +1 casterlevel basically.
Are those pesky evades in mid-high reapers any less after U51, so that you have to max DC's to hit reliably?