U51 Preview 2: Exalted Angel (Notes Only)

[Dnarth]

One of many new ed's that need to be scraped. I can't believe this was even put out to the public.

[Carrow12]

Go back to the drawing board, and make a tree that is actually useful. I'm not asking for you to throw more dcs in, but at least throw in some more mass heals. Look at the distance required for this healing aura. Go and watch some vids/streams of recent raids/quests and see where the healer actually is. The way things are standing, players that are actually specc'd as full healers aren't going to use this tree.

[elvesunited]

Some being a little bit harsh here .....

"Healing Pillar" is actually game breaking. If it heals the caster then a 20th level fighter could for a mere 3 AP, take healing pillar and core 1 and have 50 sp, magical training giving echoes of power and a massively powerful healing spell he can cast every 6 seconds. replacing with cure moderate wounds mass SLA would solve that issue by increasing the spell cost.

"Sun Pillar" is just an inferior copy of searing light. Those light damage spell casters already have that. It's redundant. But make it an area effect and we'll sit up and take notice. We've got abilities in Draconic and Primal that hit multiple targets for more damage. So this would not be overpowered. Add in the effects in the upper tiers and you've got a winner.

the mantle provides extra damage spell damage, 10 MRR, and 15 absorption to all damage types save physical and untyped. That's pretty good.

"Shadows Upon You" may be great. I just never used it before so I can't say the drawbacks. It's all about cast time and range. For example shifters have a howl which can reduce saves but it's just too slow to use and puts you in danger.

Against orange named or hard champs that aren't of a stun immune type, "Delayed Judgement" is a pretty hard hitting ability.

Holy presence does some serious aura healing. If it worked long range it would be game breaking. If you get killed by Rufus because you are standing too close to the tank so you can heal him with your aura then that's on you not the ability. You should know when its time to stand back and use your spells for healing instead of your aura.

Ascendence could be strong. Just got to see the implementation.

Sun bolt is a hold over from exalted angel. I'd rather have Divine Wrath but it looks like that may be becoming a spell.

The only straight out mistake this tree makes is one ability's belief that divine spellcasters use favored weapons. We don't.

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Right now I am leaning toward primal avatar. But I'll admit a lot of that is because I don't want to lose mass frog.
But this epic destiny is not that far from making that a much harder choice.

[Steelstar]

The only straight out mistake this tree makes is one ability's belief that divine spellcasters use favored weapons. We don't.

We know, that's why we're starting to add things to make it worth it to do so. This alone won't do it, but the future's ahead of us.

[Pandjed]

Wouldn't take this with my raid healer, because the amount of healing spells isn't a problem, and I wished there were more helpful effects proccing of the heals instead. Well, not be made for a "staying alive and heal"-type of character. Guess abandoning DCs entirely and concentrate on toughness is the way.
Tbh, clerics need a ranged effect like the healing wall, and there is nothing that provides this (as otherwise it's too hard to heal at several fronts at once).


If this can be helpful for a divine nuker that can also heal... possibly. Still, it looks rather boring. PA does a lot this tree is supposed to do and usually better, Sun Bolt as SLA in t5 is kinda insulting, as it's provided in all the nuker trees as well, and it severly lacks a punch. Having a ray of light that deals light damage to enemies and positive healing for allies would be a much cooler effect.

The pillars are all single-target? For that, the damage seems a bit lacking and while Holy command could be nice, it again has the problem with the single target. At these tiers, we can get much better Area CC in t2 of other trees.

What exactly is the oomph factor here? Why should I take this over PA with heart-selector, which supports positive, light, and fire spellpower (the same!) while doing damage and healing at the same time? Here is neither a game mechanic which seems to be special or gives great benefits by using it right, nor any cool ability you really like to have and can't get from somewhere else.

Sorry to say this, but I think this tree needs a major rehaul, and the biggest reason for this is Primal Avatar. Here some ideas for more epicness:

• Healing Explosions: Targets like a heal spell, the target explodes in light, causing it to heal with positive energy and enemies close to it to take radiant damage at the same time
• Heals buff an allies damage by a small percentage, light/fire spells reduce enemies damage by a small percentage (can also be MP/RP increase and decrease) for some seconds
• Having angel wings swirl around you, giving TempHP to allies close to you and debuffing/damaging enemies
• When you get damaged, allies around you begin to heal, as your life force just re-aligns
• A spell that creates a big flaming sword in your hand you use to slash with, acting as a cleave/close AoE spell, that does damage and CCs your opponents

With the creativity of the dev team, I'm sure there can be still a lot made, but this tree seriously looks a bit too cookie-cuttered right now.

[Fnordian]

• Endless Turning: (req Bane of Undeath): Turn Undead regenerates 10/20/30% faster. Rank 3: When you Turn Undead, you apply Restoration to allies in the Turn.

How fast do they regenerate if you don't already have Endless Turning?

[rabidfox]

[*]Core 6 (level 26): Angelic Charge: You gain a Leap of Faith-like on a longer cooldown than Leap of Faith. If you already have Leap of Faith, this instead increases its max charges by 3.

I'd love it if Angelic Charge appeared in my enhancement list alongside Leap of Faith but with Angelic Charge not having a featherfall component so I can finally enjoy the fast travel speed without being locked into over 2 minutes of FF.

[elvesunited]

We know, that's why we're starting to add things to make it worth it to do so. This alone won't do it, but the future's ahead of us.

It's not the abilities. It's the gear. Ever since Ravenloft almost all of the best named spellcaster focused weapons have been scepters and staves and since we're big time sentient weapon users we gotta go named.

[Steelstar]

It's not the abilities. It's the gear. Ever since Ravenloft almost all of the best named spellcaster focused weapons have been scepters and staves and since we're big time sentient weapon users we gotta go named.

These things go hand in hand; if we can build up more good reasons to use Favored Weapons on casters, there'll be more support for Caster Weapons that are within Favored Weapon types in the future.

[rover223]

That is such a useful enhancement to mass heal while doing damage, so make sure that is kept.

[nobodynobody1426]

If no way to make the Damaging Pillars AoE then they are kinda meh compared to other options, decent single target damage but not much else. I understand we don't want something that strong as a T1, so possibly higher up? The CC effect at T4 is largely useless because Sound Burst, Cometfall, Greater Command, and Order's Wrath all exist and hit groups instead of single targets.

The Delay / Judgement abilities seem, well weak and overly complicated to setup. The damage isn't that great for a single target attack, it only looks like that because a large die is used without static bonus's per die. 10D50 is 255 base damage average, together they are 510 with no way of increasing base damage. In contrast Ruin, that spell nobody bothers with, deals 500 base damage and does so immediately without having to wait for --oh no someone just killed the monster--. Against boss's, the only things that live long enough for it to be worth spending time not doing other stuff to use, they are immune to daze / stun so it wouldn't work anyway.

Feedback was already provided about Sunbolt, basically the T1 is stronger then it.

Sunbolt
MCL: 15
1D6+3 per caster level. At 30 this would be [15+5] due to MCL issues for a total of 130 base damage.

Pillar of Light
MCL: NA
1D6+6 per caster level, at 30 this would be [30+5] for a total of 332.5 base damage.

Sunbolt is only decently strong in heroics before it gets outclassed by a bunch of other stuff, which is fitting for a level 3 spell. Level 3 spells don't belong as level 30 capstone abilities.

As comparison, Firestorm by a Cleric with really bad Divine Disciple tree

Firestorm
MCL: 20
1D6+8 per caster level, at 30 it would be [22+5] for a total of 310.5 damage to a large AoE.
Fire Domain cleric gets it as a 8SP 8S cooldown SLA.

We know this is a first pass and there is a lot of good stuff in the tree, just some things need tuning obviously.

[nobodynobody1426]

That is such a useful enhancement to mass heal while doing damage, so make sure that is kept.

Honestly I'd hope they would fix the actual spell Mass Heal. It's a spell that nobody bothers using because by the time your done casting it everyone who needed it has long since died, including the caster. It's like trying to recall mid combat.

[Grunthorno]

We'll start here as we can't actually play around with stuff in game, so can't do as much with the feedback, but off we go!

This seems to be what exalted should be with a mix of healing/nuking, but a little more support for pure healers would be nice.
Any healing number listed off possible/projected scaling will be based off the spellpower and such I actually have on live, which is just over 1200 positive, so higher than most, you can easily run numbers as 2/3 (800) and be about where most healers will be running. All numbers measured as noncrit unless specified.
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Cores:
Astral Touch: Standard First Core, got the right stuff

Deepening Faith: Seeing the +10% spell points in the core instead of farther in the tree is nice, also very nice to see it kept

Angelic Charge: Leap of Faith is AMAZING, especially for being so low in (the cores), as it'll also allow other folks to splash in and grab the leap. This is great, means my cleric gets mobility back. I would however prefer something like +1 charge and -10% regen time for fvs, as it'll allow them to use them more consistently instead of starting with more and having a higher pool they can recharge to. Would just allow more consistency, but this would be better overall if you're going through content faster, so you wouldn't be using enough of them to need them recharging.
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T1s:

Subtle Flame: I actually really like seeing more -% spell threat around in the trees, as between this and the t1 in Shadowdancer, you can throw on an epic quiver and be at -75% threat, if that's something that is of concern to you (most folks might not care, of course), but this will actually be really nice for raid/questing situations where you don't want to be pulling threat off the melees or tanks.

Born by Flame: Will help with mitigating damage without being big enough to be a necessity. Not sure I'd take it overall unless I was on a lower defense build, but I like that its here for if I feel like I'd need it.

Angelic Form: I like the idea, but I don't actually like this itself. This is less damage (1d4+4 -> 6.5 average per caster, 227.5 base average) than the draconic proc (1d6+6 -> avg 9.5 per caster, 332.5 base average), and costs more.
However, the lessened damage fits as it goes off multiple spell types instead of a single type. I could see it being a 2 tier enhancement for 1 AP each so it's the same as the draconic one, but doesn't force you to spend the points here to get the stance that doesn't nothing for you as a healer, would save AP on healer while giving the same benefit on nukers. I like the proc chance idea that it'll be helping with the proc damage for casters catching up with the other physical DPS types.
On another note, instead of changing AP cost, you could add something for healers here as well, where it would add a chance to add extra heals, preferably in a smaller amount. I don't WANT them to be bigger base, as if it were to match scaling, I'd be looking at healing for almost 3k before hamp, I'd be 100% fine with something like 1d4 per caster level (1100 before hamp), or 1d2+2 would be great (1600 before hamp).

Avenging Magic:

Sun/Flame Pillar: Solid damage, could be nice to see both and have to choose for situations.

Healing Pillar: This is a full heal on practically everyone except tanks, before scaling off their HAMP. There is no reason for base to be this high. Damage procs SHOULD be higher as they won't be scaling with hamp. If this was made base AoE or applied a small heal over time to the target (1d2 per caster, 1 per caster even would be absolutely fine, as that'd be 450(1per) to 680 (1d2per average), but again, the scaling is way overkill.
If you have sorcerer running with 500 spellpower taking this ability, it would be healing for ABOUT 3k noncrit in r10 on people with 135 (average) hamp.
So we introduce to you: Possible new mechanic: Something like a lingering touch that adds a small amount of heal amp (5 per stack) that stacks up to a certain amount (5-10 stacks max?), that would make it so targets being a target (tanks/heavy melee with aggro) easier to heal if they're taking constant damage.

Bane of Undeath: Turn Undead still bad, but this is here to hopefully change that? Or at least give turns for the later turn abilities in the tree. I like that you get charges for it for the abilities above this to actually be used by people without turn.
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T2s:

Divine Protection: MRR good, this good. Relatively cheap in comparison to the other trees. Definitely a fan.

Stand and Be Judged: This is not something that we're a fan of. It's a bad ability without the t4 to upgrade it, not great design. Would be cool to see it either have something special that is replaced with the t4. (Similar to shield toss intim in unyielding sentinel where its a good standalone and a wonderful upgrade in t4, but not something that's a required upgrade as it has its own merits as a t2.) (Special light based debuff place??? Rebuke replacement? )

Angelic Body: Nice bonus.

Saving Grace: No fail will is mmmmmmmmmm.

Endless Turning: This is great as it provides a reason to use turn without actually being able to hit the turn DCs. The regen is also very useful for those who already had it (and those who are using it for the resto)
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T3s:

Angelic Spell Focus: DCs good, solid variety

Blessed Implements: It has decent saves bonuses against the stuff, it would be cool to see it moved into something like angelic body (t2) or another mantle upgrade where it just specifies it need for favored weapon

Holy Presence: I like the ability and extra aura healing. Unique visuals would be cool. However, I would like to see something like lower damage at faster intervals. This would currently be scaling to just shy of 500 before healing amp, so it'd be hitting on (135 hamp average) other players for somewhere around 1150 on my healer, which I find fairly excessive. If a sorc with 500 spellpower were to take this, would be scaling for 530ish (after 135 hamp) on other players as an aura, which would be harder healing than my positive energy aura hits players on live.
Faster intervals would make it more reliable, but if the goal isn't to allow someone in exalted angel to become a good healer, I'd like to see a base reduction (or lower spellpower scaling?) at the very least, as this hitting for 4 digit numbers without critting is a little ridiculous as a passive heal. This would be hitting me for 4.1x the ticks of cleric aura. This would be around 255/sec of healing while cleric aura is 184/sec.

Purity of Mind and Soul: HAMP is great. The value is worth the AP spent.

Shadows Upon You: This is a nice extra debuff, but having that as a roll of the dice for the debuff amount would be nice. The turn undead animation is pretty long and doesn't make it worthwhile. Would also be nice to see the debuff do something else special against undead like double debuff effect or something?
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T4s:

Blood and Radiance: As a healer, I will never use this as casting light spells takes far too much time away from actually and actively healing. However, if you are a light nuker who is doubling as the healer for the party, this will encourage them to actively heal as well as bolstering their healing abilities while nuking, as they won't be as geared for it as a full healer.

Delayed Judgement: This is VERY strong (510 average base damage before spellpower), and it also CCs them for helpless before it hits them. Would definitely like to see some of this power moved down to the t2.

Angelic Soul: We like MRR and absorb. This is great.

Holy Command: Adding CC to the epic strike is very nice and we like it. I would prefer if the healing one did something else to enhance that (buffing the teammate with immunity to these things?) instead of strictly undead CC.

Metamagic Attunement: We like these, saves spellpoints.
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T5s:

Enhanced Angelic Spell Focus: More DCs, great.

Sun Bolt: This is the weakest damage dealer in the tree. I think this should be scrapped and possibly be replaced by some, hmm, uh, special chain lightning style healing ability? If it is kept, adding to spellbook and doubling damage if you already have it (while uncapping MCL) would also possibly be decent? Multiselector between the two perhaps.

Blessed Water: This is actually a neat turn undead buff, and I like the fount of life buffs.

Epic Moment: Ascendance: I really like this, but something like auto quicken and half cooldown during the epic moment would be VERY neat. This epic moment should make healing SUPER easy (basically if you are pressing buttons, no one should die unless oneshot.) The healing part on it is SUPER cool. Depending on the visual effects, this could look absolutely amazing.

Metamagic Attunement: This is great as a free metamagic, and the cost reduction when we have it? Wonderful, I love this.
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Overall: Very fun tree design, a few numbers are a bit overtuned and could easily be tuned down (on the healing side), I think the numbers for nuking look fairly decent. I would like to see somewhere, something that will let me have a targettable HoT (even if its a single target HoT to replace t3 aura) without being forced into unyielding t2, as I don't currently have a heal over time other than cleric aura. Wonderful tree though, I think it'll make raid/party healing more enjoyable than we currently have on live.

[Carrow12]

So I looked over the tree again, just to see if maybe I was being overly harsh. Nope.

Instead of the +30 pos power we get in EA now, we will be getting +5. Yep, nerfing healers an additional 25. This is AFTER we just got nerfed with U50. Is this a typo? Maybe you meant to give us 30?

[Triaxx2]

Instead of the +30 pos power we get in EA now, we will be getting +5.

It's +5 per core you take. So it's actually +15. Though that will go up as more cores are added with increasing levels.

[nobodynobody1426]

So I looked over the tree again, just to see if maybe I was being overly harsh. Nope.

Instead of the +30 pos power we get in EA now, we will be getting +5. Yep, nerfing healers an additional 25. This is AFTER we just got nerfed with U50. Is this a typo? Maybe you meant to give us 30?

It's +30 total, just worded differently

Each core of this tree grants +50 max SP, +5 positive, fire, and light spell power, and +5 Universal Spell Power.

So +15 Light / Fire / Positive and another +15 Universal for a total of +30 to Light / Fire / Positive.

[Carrow12]

It's +30 total, just worded differently



So +15 Light / Fire / Positive and another +15 Universal for a total of +30 to Light / Fire / Positive.

Ah, okay I misread that. So it's +15 pos instead of 30, and 15 to universal to stack. But in core rather than a tier, so I would have to take useless stuff from the tree to get it.

[nobodynobody1426]

Ah, okay I misread that. So it's +15 pos instead of 30, and 15 to universal to stack. But in core rather than a tier, so I would have to take useless stuff from the tree to get it.

Core 3 is only 10 points, and like EA much of the tier 1~3 stuff is good to have around, stuff above that is what needs tweaking a bit. So even if you want to live in PA for Heart form, you can spend 11~15 points in EA for some decent stuff. Right now in it's prototype, draft and unrefined state, it's a decent secondary tree for healers and fire / light divine blasters. Many of the other tree's were in similar situation when initial release, so give it some time and constructive feedback on what does and doesn't work.

Remember the unconfirmed but kinda confirmed rumor is they are making Divine Wrath and Celestial Bombardment into level 9 divine spells and putting a form of chained healing into the T5 on this tree with the possibility of something else at the top.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Will this tree FINALLY give graphical angel wings ?

I'm so much bored/sick of all these hundreds of Reaper Wings running around, and NOT A SINGLE angel wing being permaently out there ...

[Aelonwy]

\Remember the unconfirmed but kinda confirmed rumor is they are making Divine Wrath and Celestial Bombardment into level 9 divine spells and putting a form of chained healing into the T5 on this tree with the possibility of something else at the top.

Even if this is true, while we definitely need a wider selection of level 9 divine and primal spells, there is a problem with this^... Metamagics. An epic destiny SLA could be freely metamagicked to a decent level of usefulness in the casting rotation. A regular spell cannot be metamagicked freely and is considerably more expensive to cast at that same level of metamagicked effectiveness. Furthermore, with the stat squish I have considerably less spell points at my disposal already. And to top it off that spell, should it be deemed good enough to be prepped in my spellbook will likely take up 2 slots on my quickbar meta'd and unmeta'd unlike the SLA that could always be meta'd.

Casters already pay an opportunity cost taking metamagick feats and then the cost of using those feats is prohibitive on anything but SLAs. Even with Metamagick reducing enhancements, yet another tax on casters to actually use their feats, metamagicks are just too expensive to use consistently. Melee don't pay in hit points to use their feats. Melee and ranged can mostly use their feats stacked all together to increase their effectiveness in combat. Casters feats are weird in that most only have situational use this spell but not that spell, this mob but not that one, this on top of the resource management play style.

Once again I'm struck with this feeling they are removing that which I felt was of the most use to me (in this case Divine Wrath SLA), the best thing, that which I liked and enjoyed the most and returning to me something of less value, less use, and less joy.