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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    News on that front:

    Rather than solve this problem here in this tree, we're actually going to be modifying the scaling curve for Assassinate items across the entire game. Right now the top level items cap out at +6 Assassinate DCs, and top level Stunning items cap out at +15. This change would put Assassinate on the same scaling curve that Stunning has, so you'll go up from +6 to +15 from level 29 or 30 items. Note that items will change in place without any necessary interference on your end, and will be adjusted linearly across the entire 1-30 game, so this will result in a DC boost for Rogues in heroic levels as well.

    Hopefully this is a more equitable solution than just juicing the heck out of those DCs in SD to make up for lost ground
    Thank you for replying to this concern, it does help alleviate some of the fears that I've had. Especially when looking at and comparing it to all of the methods to increase spell DC. The one thing that I do have a concern over is that if this is not proliferated onto a number of solid items for Assassin's then they'll feel forced to take one or two items at various different levels just to get the assassinate DC and have no other real options for equipment in those slots. That's the only reason it's nice to have the DCs baked into other options that we were going to get anyway.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloomfall View Post
    Thank you for replying to this concern, it does help alleviate some of the fears that I've had. Especially when looking at and comparing it to all of the methods to increase spell DC. The one thing that I do have a concern over is that if this is not proliferated onto a number of solid items for Assassin's then they'll feel forced to take one or two items at various different levels just to get the assassinate DC and have no other real options for equipment in those slots. That's the only reason it's nice to have the DCs baked into other options that we were going to get anyway.
    This is kind of the beauty of our itemization paradigm - I'm not editing the items directly, I'm editing what the items are looking at. So there's no chance that an item could be missed with this pass (assuming its on our modern scaling).
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

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  3. #43
    Hero apocaladle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is kind of the beauty of our itemization paradigm - I'm not editing the items directly, I'm editing what the items are looking at. So there's no chance that an item could be missed with this pass (assuming its on our modern scaling).
    Thats a pretty cool system.
    $GME YOLO

  4. #44
    Community Member M.ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is kind of the beauty of our itemization paradigm - I'm not editing the items directly, I'm editing what the items are looking at. So there's no chance that an item could be missed with this pass (assuming its on our modern scaling).
    I think his concern is more towards being shoehorned into specific items as opposed to worrying if items that have the stat get missed. I imagine his hope is that the assassinate ability is added to existing or new items that currently do not have it.

    Cheers,
    M.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    News on that front:

    Rather than solve this problem here in this tree, we're actually going to be modifying the scaling curve for Assassinate items across the entire game. Right now the top level items cap out at +6 Assassinate DCs, and top level Stunning items cap out at +15. This change would put Assassinate on the same scaling curve that Stunning has, so you'll go up from +6 to +15 from level 29 or 30 items. Note that items will change in place without any necessary interference on your end, and will be adjusted linearly across the entire 1-30 game, so this will result in a DC boost for Rogues in heroic levels as well.

    Hopefully this is a more equitable solution than just juicing the heck out of those DCs in SD to make up for lost ground
    If you're willing to go that far then why not turn assassinate in a straight type of tactics so that items that abilities and items that affect all types of tactics also affects Assassinate?

  6. #46
    Community Member fabhpk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    News on that front:

    Rather than solve this problem here in this tree, we're actually going to be modifying the scaling curve for Assassinate items across the entire game. Right now the top level items cap out at +6 Assassinate DCs, and top level Stunning items cap out at +15. This change would put Assassinate on the same scaling curve that Stunning has, so you'll go up from +6 to +15 from level 29 or 30 items. Note that items will change in place without any necessary interference on your end, and will be adjusted linearly across the entire 1-30 game, so this will result in a DC boost for Rogues in heroic levels as well.

    Hopefully this is a more equitable solution than just juicing the heck out of those DCs in SD to make up for lost ground
    This is really good news!

  7. #47
    Community Member Seph1roth5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    So there's no chance that an item could be missed with this pass (assuming its on our modern scaling).
    I don't normally believe in jinxes, but pretty sure you just broke something incredibly obscure. Like all the commas in dialogue is now deleted from upstairs sharn.
    Mains - Messam, Indalecio, Mozenrath, Quackerjack.

  8. #48
    Community Member Rauven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    News on that front:

    Rather than solve this problem here in this tree, we're actually going to be modifying the scaling curve for Assassinate items across the entire game. Right now the top level items cap out at +6 Assassinate DCs, and top level Stunning items cap out at +15. This change would put Assassinate on the same scaling curve that Stunning has, so you'll go up from +6 to +15 from level 29 or 30 items. Note that items will change in place without any necessary interference on your end, and will be adjusted linearly across the entire 1-30 game, so this will result in a DC boost for Rogues in heroic levels as well.

    Hopefully this is a more equitable solution than just juicing the heck out of those DCs in SD to make up for lost ground

    Does that apply to insightful assassinate, as well? Will my ml 29 Cannith crafted dagger go from +6 assassinate, +2 insightful assassinate to +15 assassinate, +6 insightful assassinate after this change?

  9. #49
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apocaladle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    This is kind of the beauty of our itemization paradigm - I'm not editing the items directly, I'm editing what the items are looking at. So there's no chance that an item could be missed with this pass (assuming its on our modern scaling).
    Thats a pretty cool system.
    I disagree.

    If left to its own devices without any Dev intervention, it can result in overly-formulaic items with little room for uniqueness which could be accomplished by occasionally deviating from the "standard" scaling rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauven View Post
    Does that apply to insightful assassinate, as well? Will my ml 29 Cannith crafted dagger go from +6 assassinate, +2 insightful assassinate to +15 assassinate, +6 insightful assassinate after this change?
    That's correct.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

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  11. #51
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    That's correct.
    When will we see this change?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

  12. #52
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hopefully this is a more equitable solution than just juicing the heck out of those DCs in SD to make up for lost ground
    I'm not saying this is a bad itemization change... but how is this "equitable" when assassinate starts off with 37 dc (10+ 20 rogue level +7 to dc from tree), whereas stunning blow is only 10? Can tactical feats add character level as well then?
    Thelanis

  13. #53
    Community Member Archfae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    I'm not saying this is a bad itemization change... but how is this "equitable" when assassinate starts off with 37 dc (10+ 20 rogue level +7 to dc from tree), whereas stunning blow is only 10? Can tactical feats add character level as well then?
    Its equitable because tactical effects still have bonuses that assassinate doesn't.

    KTA type effects apply to tactics like stunning blow without doing the same for assassinate.

    Fighter pl gives +3 that doesnt apply to assassinate.

    The tactics / assassinate boost epic pl gives higher amounts to tactics than assassinate.

    Itemization in general is far easier to acquire for stunning than for assaasinate.

    When you go through all of these different things, stunning blow has a higher dc than assassinate. These changes just help bring assassinate back into a healthy place.

    Also as a side note, keep in mind that stunning blow doesn't lock you into a class and T5 enhancement tree to acquire it.

  14. #54
    Founder Tyrande's Avatar
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    On live with live Shadowdancer I saw rogues with the Assassin tree can assassinate Constructs and Undead. Is this Working as Intended?
    It does not seem WAI per what I know about constructs and undead in regular D&D.

    If this is WAI, why can't casters with the shadowdancer tree with the Dark Imbuement finger, wail the constructs and undeads?

    But the same ability does not work on Plants from assassinate?
    Last edited by Tyrande; 10-07-2021 at 04:16 PM.

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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    On live with live Shadowdancer I saw rogues with the Assassin tree can assassinate Constructs and Undead. Is this Working as Intended?
    It does not seem WAI per what I know about constructs and undead.

    If this is WAI, why can't casters with the shadowdancer tree with the Dark Imbuement finger, wail the constructs and undead?

    But the same ability does not work on Plants from assassinate?
    Yes it is WAI, they do not have deathblock. But they are not living by normal standards, so conventional isntakills (Like finder of death and wail) wont work.
    For constructs use color spray, and for undead death to death.

    It also does work on plants but have higher than normal fort saves; so requires stat boosting.



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    Last edited by Nammmmmmm; 10-07-2021 at 04:24 PM.

  16. #56
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Assassins rarely encumber themselves with more than they require for the task at hand, and certainly never with anything that might have sentimental value or might serve to identify them should they die in the execution of their task.

    Successfully casting 'Find Traps'; is more than adequate for a Character to temporarily Search for traps that are higher than DC 20 without requiring the Trapfinding feat. As I've explained several times in the past, e.g. [Post #67]. There's hardly been any feedback supporting having Trapfinding within the Shadowdancer cores. I suggest you remove the Trapfinding feat from the core.

    With the new (mal)functioning 'Improved Shadowform', you CANNOT pass through enemies when you tumble. Whereas with current 'Shadow Form' on live that useful functionally is available.' Assassins don't like being hemmed in; being able to tumble through mobs, gives an escape route or allows one to position for sneak attack.

    I was under the impression the new "Improved Shadowform" was also meant to be useful for sneaky rogues. Clearly being able to pass though enemies' is very useful with 'Shadow Form'. Whereas in the new version you have some mostly pointless 'float over' - a niche - trap type function; "Tier Five: Improved Shadowform", bonus where you can avoid triggering both Pressure plate or Bear traps. Obviously is not meant for the benefit of supportive Rogues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Tier 5 (req level 30):
    [...]
    Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Destiny Mantle: [...] no longer trigger pressure plate or bear traps. ...
    The avoiding triggering both Bear traps and Pressure plates doesn't seem to function correctly or that description is misleading...


    When you're shackled to the shadow and we're ghosts.

    The above screenshot was taken inside the 'The Haunted Halls of Eveningstar'. I didn't reveal that 'Pressure plate' via Search. I just used [T5] "Shadowform" to float over the object - obviously; it revealed and "triggered" and tried to damage me. I'm not sure what would happen if my Reflex save had failed, i.e. I'm not any wiser as to whether or not I'd still take damage from the Pressure plate.

    Pressure plate in action.

    That clearly visible trap (revealed by just floating over it) is certainly attempting to damage me in that combat log. Testing in a different quest; I floated over a few 'concealed' Bear traps and those didn't reveal. However, when I used Search (exposed the trap) and floated over the Bear trap, again it attempted to damage me. It seems like you've made a lot of effort adding that new function, which has very little value or practical purpose, and yet dropped a useful 'tumble though enemy' feature. :-/
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 10-08-2021 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Grammar and URI.

  17. #57
    Community Member Seph1roth5's Avatar
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    I've pointed out numerous times in numerous lamannias that trapfinding was utterly pointless but no one cared lol. Not sure if people think it actually lets you disable or what. Would definitely like it to get the big boot and something else take it's place.
    Mains - Messam, Indalecio, Mozenrath, Quackerjack.

  18. #58
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    News on that front:

    Rather than solve this problem here in this tree, we're actually going to be modifying the scaling curve for Assassinate items across the entire game. Right now the top level items cap out at +6 Assassinate DCs, and top level Stunning items cap out at +15. This change would put Assassinate on the same scaling curve that Stunning has, so you'll go up from +6 to +15 from level 29 or 30 items. Note that items will change in place without any necessary interference on your end, and will be adjusted linearly across the entire 1-30 game, so this will result in a DC boost for Rogues in heroic levels as well.

    Hopefully this is a more equitable solution than just juicing the heck out of those DCs in SD to make up for lost ground
    lynn,
    does assassinate still add to quivering palm?

    pretty please and thank you
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  19. #59
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    On live with live Shadowdancer I saw rogues with the Assassin tree can assassinate Constructs and Undead. Is this Working as Intended?
    It does not seem WAI per what I know about constructs and undead in regular D&D.
    Yes, this was changed several updates ago.
    Last edited by Arkat; 10-11-2021 at 01:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

  20. #60
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    lynn,
    does assassinate still add to quivering palm?

    pretty please and thank you
    IIRC, Assassinate never added to your QP DC. Effects that added to your Sunder DCs did, however, until that was taken away during one of the MANY Monk nerfs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The release notes themselves are essentially the same as was seen on Lamannia most recently.
    This^, in so many words, is how you say time and feedback on Lamannia are wasted.

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