U51 Preview 2: Epic Destiny Overview

[Theboss71]

I keep seeing this argument, but everyone takes exactly the same twists on nearly every build archetype once they have enough experience, and that's not my definition of flexibility. If you're a melee build you just want your meld and your cocoon and your martial hymn every life. The only flexibility anyone has used with any frequency with twists is changing energy sheath for different raids.

Really glad to see that paradigm being shaken up. Hoping that there will be lots of interesting combos of destinies that are all "viable" for different builds, and that all feel different to play. Concerned that after a bit of live testing it will just boil down to a single 'best' mantle and an obvious T5 for each build, with whatever strike is the biggest number for you.

Twists didn’t cost you points, they gave cool abilities you wanted from random tree, in this current system you’re limited to 3 trees and limited a lot by points, most players will have 56-60 points and only the vets will have 60-67. If they increased the amount of points we’re getting or lower the requirements points to unlock tiers this system could have replaced the twists. This system is starved for points and there isn’t just enough, sorry to break your illusion.

[Hawkwier]

I keep seeing this argument, but everyone takes exactly the same twists on nearly every build archetype once they have enough experience, and that's not my definition of flexibility. If you're a melee build you just want your meld and your cocoon and your martial hymn every life. The only flexibility anyone has used with any frequency with twists is changing energy sheath for different raids.

Really glad to see that paradigm being shaken up. Hoping that there will be lots of interesting combos of destinies that are all "viable" for different builds, and that all feel different to play. Concerned that after a bit of live testing it will just boil down to a single 'best' mantle and an obvious T5 for each build, with whatever strike is the biggest number for you.

Disagree. For starters your definition of "everyone" doesn't include me. Not taken Cocoon ever, for example. Not that fussed about MH either. Meld though, yeah. As I made clear I don't speak for anyone except myself. Equally I don't buy into those making generalisations that infer they do.

As for flexibility, again our definition varies. Flexibility for me is to be able make the choice I want when I can do so. That has no reference to what anyone else may or may not do when faced with the same choice. Removal of that choice is removing that flexibility. I'm all for increasing flexibility by offering more viable choices, but you don't do that by nerfing (and even removing the option entirely of) the choices we already have. I get that subjectively you're OK with that. That's your choice. It's not ours though.

[elvesunited]

I get that DDO wants to keep the level gate at such high levels for the upcoming level increase but .....

1) That level increase will have to come not only with the mechanics of the level increase, but enough quest content to sustain player interest in those levels. We're looking at several months. Several months may as well be an eternity with players that are ticked off at the severe level gating.

2) Regardless devs trying to reduce the panic over the level increase have stated multiple times that the epic destiny reincarnation will still be available at level 30. It's counter-productive to offer Tier 5 epic destinies abilities in one hand but encourage epic destiny reincarnation with the other. You'd want Tier 5 abilities available a portion of the epic reincarnation run to give players a taste of what their doing this for.

3) A lot of characters at level 28 and 29 run epic elite or low reaper legendary content with low power level 30 characters. This will increase the power gap between them and the level 30 characters and make those groups less likely. ( High reaper groups tend to be fairly exclusive ) Particularly hurt will be DC casters who won't get access to the Tier 5 +3 DC until level 30 but also some like dire chargers who won't gain stun until level 30.

[mikarddo]

What needs to be done is the following:

a) Level gating of tiers should be lowered to
T3: level 22
T4: level 24
T5: level 26

b) Add 10 more points to everyone at level 20 in addition to the points already mentioned.

c) For levels beyond 30: add the ability to use more than 3 trees and obviously 4 more points per level.

By doing so you avoid robbing the epic levels 20-29 yet still get progression through the epic levels with more points, feats and tier unlocks.

[elvesunited]

Other note:

One good thing that could come out of this would be removing the reaper barrier preventing very low epic characters doing level very high level heroic quests on reaper as the power gap between a level 19 character and a level 20 character will no longer be as large.

[Synthetic]

Other note:

One good thing that could come out of this would be removing the reaper barrier preventing very low epic characters doing level very high level heroic quests on reaper as the power gap between a level 19 character and a level 20 character will no longer be as large.

Do that ^

Change Tier 5 to 29

Standardize the Tier 5 point spend across the destinies. The response will probably be adjusting the points is easy, but if you can't justify the tier 5 costs being equal between trees it probably means you have some weak tier 5 that need help. Alternately you have some overly expensive Tier 5 abilities. You'd make a lot of people happier if they can grab most of the tier 5 stuff at a reasonable cost.

Hopefully you'll get everything working by next preview. It's difficult to really say what is good if it doesn't work.

[FengXian]

I buried it in another post, but I think it deserves it's own mention: Fate Tomes (+1/+2) should grant DP not FP.

Two FP is a helluva lot more when you have only 24FP. Now we have ... 160FP? And they still add 2?

Yes.

1/24 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1/160.

Fate Tomes should be granting DP now. It should not even be in question.

Signed, spread the word guys.

[Assassination]

What needs to be done is the following:

a) Level gating of tiers should be lowered to
T3: level 22
T4: level 24
T5: level 26

b) Add 10 more points to everyone at level 20 in addition to the points already mentioned.

c) For levels beyond 30: add the ability to use more than 3 trees and obviously 4 more points per level.

By doing so you avoid robbing the epic levels 20-29 yet still get progression through the epic levels with more points, feats and tier unlocks.

Very Solid Idea!!

[Theboss71]

What needs to be done is the following:

a) Level gating of tiers should be lowered to
T3: level 22
T4: level 24
T5: level 26

b) Add 10 more points to everyone at level 20 in addition to the points already mentioned.

c) For levels beyond 30: add the ability to use more than 3 trees and obviously 4 more points per level.

By doing so you avoid robbing the epic levels 20-29 yet still get progression through the epic levels with more points, feats and tier unlocks.

+1
Good idea, I hope it won’t be ignored.

[Seph1roth5]

First: tier 5s down to lv 29! do it!

Second: There are a good number of people who HAVE to play the absolute best build. Those are the people who always used the same twists. Those are the ones who were happy that ravenloft belts were nerfed because now they don't HAVE to use them. I don't think this group is the majority (although there ARE a lot of them).

You don't HAVE to run the meta, you can just have fun. I always find it ridiculous when people say crown of butterflies has to go because they wear it all the time on all characters. If the most powerful item is removed/nerfed, all those people just move down to the next most powerful item anyway.

[AebroKomatme]

You made good points that I completly agree, still the new system will hit hard low/mid epics( that are already somehow boring) with our without cap increased and that needs to be addressed.

From what I’ve heard, they plan on addressing that particular issue by adjusting the mobs. If that’s the case, I hope they dive deeper than merely adjusting some across the board sliders. For instance, the mobs in Sentinels chain are going to need some individualized attention or they’re gonna cause some party wipes for those who don’t have max ED points.

[DRoark]

We can see "If you have more points in X ED, you assume the Mantle of Whatever"... adding another Toggle? Nope. Totally ignoring.

What, two full bars of toggles wasn't enough?

ED skills are passive. Period. You wouldn't "forget" past-life skills any more than you "forget" 10-HP from Barbarian.
Some Rocket Scientist over there might add Class toggles........ "Dude, you TR'd, you totally forgot how to "Cleric"!

You don't forget +6 Range damage, but forget 3% Doubleshot?
Your Rogue remembers how to Turn Undead, but forgets +3 to Open Lock?
Your new Wizard has +3 Damage in Melee, but forgets Spell Crit?
Your Cleric can remember +3 Sneak damage, but forgets +3 Heal?

Any consistency would be nice. Most of your toggles are unneeded and irrelevant.

[archerforever]

Tier 5 for lvl 30 .... plz no... It is too late to enjoy it and play with our build...

On heroic levels, tier 5 is avaible at lvl 12.
That means you can enjoy your character with almost a 'final' build lvl 12 for 8 more lvls to be lvl 20 and even more with epic and lvl 30...
So that means you can play with a tier 5 on heroic for 35/40% of the time (8/20 lvls)

YOU NEED TO DO THE SAME THING FOR EPIC !
We should have tier 5 lvl 26 for epic levels, for exactly the same reason why we have tier 5 on heroic lvl 12 instead of lvl 20!

Thanks listen to us, we love you devs <3

[TFerguson]

Very Solid Idea!!

A better solid idea is to scrap this idea and buy everyone enough tequila so we can forget this even happened.

[DaviMOC]

From what I’ve heard, they plan on addressing that particular issue by adjusting the mobs. If that’s the case, I hope they dive deeper than merely adjusting some across the board sliders. For instance, the mobs in Sentinels chain are going to need some individualized attention or they’re gonna cause some party wipes for those who don’t have max ED points.

I could name some other stuff too....

I could see Skeleton Archers from epic catacombs and delera's in need of some tune too.

At 25's like GH( those falchion hobgoblins) and TBC mobs also gets a boost to its damage and health while gears keeps somehow the same until 28 that may also become an issue.

[elvesunited]

Question:

3 Epic destinies allow for 30% less threat from all sources as a Tier 1 ability. Do they stack with each other? If so characters now have the chance with a threat reducing item or heroic enhancement to achieve over 100% threat reduction. Is that game breaking? What is the effect of hitting an enemy for ten of thousands of damage and producing 0 threat?

[Qeistalan]

Question:

3 Epic destinies allow for 30% less threat from all sources as a Tier 1 ability. Do they stack with each other? If so characters now have the chance with a threat reducing item or heroic enhancement to achieve over 100% threat reduction. Is that game breaking? What is the effect of hitting an enemy for ten of thousands of damage and producing 0 threat?

Now, threat reduction can/will be mutually exclusive between EDs (like Improved Dodge in heroics). Solid dev water-carry.

The game has been broken for a long time. ED overhaul is not improving the game.

The whole point is to ensure nothing benefits players. Git guud.

[Seph1roth5]

From what I’ve heard, they plan on addressing that particular issue by adjusting the mobs. If that’s the case, I hope they dive deeper than merely adjusting some across the board sliders. For instance, the mobs in Sentinels chain are going to need some individualized attention or they’re gonna cause some party wipes for those who don’t have max ED points.

The only thing I've heard devs mention is their plan to remove epic resiliency, which is a +2-+6 to all saves buffs monsters get. +6 at full HP and gets less as they lose HP. They COULD tweak more but so far that's the only word we've heard.

I've also heard the main opposition to tier 5s down from 30 is that this ED system is being balanced for the eventual lv 40 cap. The problem here is, we were told that epic tr would stay at lv 30. So regardless of the level cap increasing, 30 will STILL be a threshold people hit and then TR. I don't think the ratio of people staying at cap vs people etr-ing will change that much, since epic past lives give more points to spend epic.

The cap increasing doesn't stop this unless the devs go back on their word.

[Qeistalan]

... unless the devs go back on their word.

Unless?

That's like asking "Does the sun rise in the east?"

[AebroKomatme]

The only thing I've heard devs mention is their plan to remove epic resiliency, which is a +2-+6 to all saves buffs monsters get. +6 at full HP and gets less as they lose HP. They COULD tweak more but so far that's the only word we've heard.

I've also heard the main opposition to tier 5s down from 30 is that this ED system is being balanced for the eventual lv 40 cap. The problem here is, we were told that epic tr would stay at lv 30. So regardless of the level cap increasing, 30 will STILL be a threshold people hit and then TR. I don't think the ratio of people staying at cap vs people etr-ing will change that much, since epic past lives give more points to spend epic.

The cap increasing doesn't stop this unless the devs go back on their word.

This brings up an interesting idea. If they keep the eTR system capped at 30 after raising the level cap, I have to assume there will be some kind of legendary TR system put in place. I wonder what that’s gonna look like.

Are legendary past life feats (in the same vein as epic past life feats) gonna be a thing?

Honestly, I hope that whatever system we get allows you to do a legendary TR back down to 30, where you can then do an eTR back to 20, then TR back to 1.