U51 Preview 1: Fury of the Wild

[Monkey_Archer]

I think everyone is sleeping on cutter...a single application with twf applies 240d6 bane damage every 2 seconds, or 360d6 after the second application. That's 630 unresistable dps, scaling 200% mp...so at, say, 200 mp, that's over 3000 passive dps.

After testing quick cutter I'm thoroughly confused.

Here it says 4d6 per character level, 3 stacks, scaling with 200% melee power.
In game it says 2d6 per character level, 3 stacks, scaling with 200% melee power.

Actual testing has it doing ~400 damage per stack with 200 melee power (not doubled on double strike) indicating the actual effect is probably 4d6 per epic level, 3 stacks, scaling with 100% melee power.

It also has a strange implementation which allows you you proc the damage on hit+offhand if you apply a new stack at the same time the old stack is ticking, giving 2 additional ticks of damage immediately.

Despite this added benefit (bug?), adrenaline is still higher dps even on a TWF (30-32 second boss kobold vs 35-37 with quick cutter)

IMO the in game description (2d6 per character level, 200% melee power scaling) is probably where it needs to be to compete with adrenaline. Perhaps upgrading to 3d6 and 4d6 on the higher tiers. For THF I suspect adrenaline would still be better even at 4d6.

[Arkat]

The unconcious range is a boon to me, leave it there

items that extend uncouncious range saved my arse many time already, when paired with this destiny it will make it more reliable in epics.

Agreed... and while temp HP are nice, once they're gone they're gone, whereas successive hits might bring you into unconsciousness range multiple times within that window if you're unlucky... and this tree has enough automatic healing effects you'll be back up again pretty quickly.

Disagree.

Unbridled Fury is not there to save your butts from dying in Hardcore.

Its purpose is to do a TON of damage in a short period of time. An extended unconsciousness range doesn't accomplish that.

[Assassination]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

[*]The Great Leveler: CD 30 Melee attack. W 3/4/6. Crit Threat: +4/8/16. This attack creates a shock wave that affects all enemies in a short narrow line. The length and width of the line doubles if Adrenaline or Quick is active, consuming those effects. Applies Trip (DC 20 + Highest of Dex, Str, Con + Trip/Tactics DCs).[/LIST]

Consider changing the Great Leveler' shockwave to be a circle around your character that grows in size. This would be much more affective, would hit more mobs, and would protect us from evil doing back stabbers. This would make this ability much
more user friendly. I really like most of this tree. Maybe add a bit to the cores to spice it up, and add some stuff for cutter. I'd like to have a choice between Adrenaline and Quick cutter... Right now that choice is Adrenaline a no brainer. Please add to
quick cutter in the upper tiers the way you did with adrenaline. Thanks.

[Jerevth]

The cores should do more than increase unconscious range.
I see some folks like that, but for "Fury of the Wild" it really misses the mark. Fury doesn't lie there, drooling on the dirt until the enemy manages to hack off enough parts.
Add PRR/MRR, increases rage bonuses, or something else- other than HPs, please.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Is there anychance to remove the additional threat from Adrenline: "Your next melee attack deals +25/50/75% damage, and increases your threat by 4/8/16. Requires a melee weapon to use. Cooldown: 8 seconds"?

This is critical threat range, it could be worded better for clarity.

[SpartanKiller13]

I think everyone is sleeping on cutter...a single application with twf applies 240d6 bane damage every 2 seconds, or 360d6 after the second application. That's 630 unresistable dps, scaling 200% mp...so at, say, 200 mp, that's over 3000 passive dps.

So you ~gotta use TWF to apply it, it takes 6s in a fight before you can even use it, and it's all backloaded damage? Seems alright for raid DPS, but mostly seems good as a twist for TWF toons which I guess is ok but seems weird to me.

[Ganak]

Reviewing this tree through the eyes of a Dex based TWF Ranger.

The synopsis is I feel pigeon holed into a catch all destiny that is slanted towards STR based characters and barbs. I'll welcome any comments that make me feel better about this or guidance that another destiny can make sense.



Tier 1 (req level 20):

Enduring: +2/4/6 Physical Resistance Rating.
Commentary: Meh. Three points for 6 PRR. Fair enough for tier 1 I guess.


Savage Takedown: +1/2/3 Trip DCs. Rank 3: Gain an additional +3 to Trip DCs if you're wearing Medium or Light Armor.
Commentary: Trip is Str based. Out of scope for me.




Epic Strike: - Multiselector
Adrenaline: Your next melee attack deals +25/50/75% damage, and increases your threat by 4/8/16. Requires a melee weapon to use. Cooldown: 8 seconds.
Quick Cutter: Melee Attack: 0/1/2 W + 0/1/2 Crit Threat. When you use this skill gain the effect “Quick” which grants +2/4/6% dodge for 9 seconds. If you use this skill again while Quick is still active you instead apply Cutter to your target. Cutter: 4d6 bane damage per character level every 2 seconds for 12 seconds. Stacks 3 times and scales with 200% of Melee Power. Off hand strikes can apply Cutter as well. Requires a melee weapon to use. Cooldown: 6 seconds.

Commentary: Adrenaline gets hate, which I don't want. Cutter ok on paper but DoT worthless on trash.




Mantle of Fury: Destiny Mantle: Gain 5/10/15% damage against helpless targets. You also heal 2/4/6d10 Hit Points every 15 seconds. Scales with the highest of positive Spell Power or 200% Melee Power.
Commentary: My dex base is losing stun with the changes to Dire Charge. The heals are marginal in reaper content.



Acute Senses: +2/4/6 Balance, Listen, Spot, Search, and Saves vs Traps. Rank 3: You gain 1% Dodge
Commentary: Meh.


Tier 2 (req level 22):

Fast & Furious: Charge a target dealing 1/2/3 W +0/1/2 Critical Hit Multiplier. Rank 3: When you activate this ability, if you are raging, the cooldown is immediately reset. This cooldown reset may only happen once every 10 seconds, independent of the skill’s cooldown. Requires a melee weapon to use. Cooldown: 12/10/8 seconds.

Commentary: Slanted towards barbs with rage bonus.




Fear my Vengeance: +1/2/3 damage to shaken foes.
Commentary: Nothing for my TWF dex here.


I'm Always Angry: You gain the Barbarian Rage feat. +1/2/3 uses of Rage.
Commentary: Grrrrr....


Primal Scream: Nearby Allies gain a +2 Morale bonus to Strength and Constitution for 5 minutes. This effect cannot be refreshed until the first one expires. Nearby Enemies take 1d20 Sonic damage per character level and are Shaken for 30 seconds. Damage Scales the highest of 200% with Melee Power or Sonic Spell Power. Cooldown: 30 seconds.
Commentary: Marginal for my TWF dex here. Small HP boost and others in the party likely to have.

Gird against Demons: Weapons you wield bypass Silver and Cold Iron damage reduction.
Commentary: Cool.


Tier 3 (req level 24):

Sense Weakness +2/4/6% Fortification Bypass. Your Fury Destiny Mantle grants you an additional 5/10/15% damage against helpless targets.
Commentary: Right on for the fort bypass, but small increments for investment.



Multi Selector -
Wild Weapons: +5/10/15% Strikethrough Chance
Wild Weapons: 3/6/10% off hand strike Chance
Wild Weapons: 1/2/3% Double Strike Chance

Commentary: I think my offhand is pretty high and don't get a ROI. 3% DS for the investment in points not a good ROI.



Eternal Rage If you are not raging and you are out of rage charges, you have a 1/2/3% chance to gain 1 charge of rage whenever you strike a foe.
Commentary: Grrrr....barb focused


Multi Selector
Furious Force: +1 Strength while Raging. Increases adrenaline Damage bonus by 25/50/75%.
Spirit of the Beast: +1/2/3 attack bonus. Rank 3: The effects of Ram’s Might and Animal Growth are doubled on you.
Embrace the Pain: When you are below 15/25/40% of your Max Hit Points you gain 2d10 Hit Points every 6 seconds. Scales with the highest of Positive Spell Power or 200% Melee Power.


Commentary: Spirit of the Beast = +2 dmg and +2 str (over base spell) which is more beneficial for a STR based ranger. Feel shorted.


Tier 4 (req level 26):

Voice of Fury: Doubles the damage of your Primal Scream. If Adrenaline or Quick is active when you use Primal Scream, triple the damage instead, and nearby enemies have a 75% chance of become Confused for 3 seconds, no save. Adrenaline and Quick are consumed.

Commentary: Benefits to primal scream do not benefit dex based very much and damage from primal scream isn't a tactic.



Top Dog: You gain the Improved Trip Feat
Commentary: GREAT, I AM DEX BASED!


Multi Selector:
Overwhelming Force: +1/2/3 bonus to Hit. Increases your Adrenaline effect by 25/50/75% additional damage. Rank 3: Melee attacks under the effect of Adrenaline cause knock down on target for 4 seconds.
Primal Force: You gain a +[1/2/3] Attack bonus and 2/4/6% Fortification By Pass. Rank 3: If duel wielding, using punch weapons or in animal form gain a +2% Epic Damage bonus to all physical attacks.
Commentary: OK Primal Force solid for TWF.


Multi Selector -
Wade Through: +10/15/25% StrikeThrough chance
Wade Through: +3/6/10% Off Hand strike chance
Wade Through: +2/4/6% Double Strike chance

Commentary: Not feeling the cost investment or need.



Unquenchable Rage:Reduce all damage taken by 8/12/15% for 6 seconds after you consume a Rage charge or use Primal Scream. Rank 3: Now also applies a copy of the Heal spell to you which scales with the highest of Melee Power at 200% or Positive Spell Power.



Commentary: Not applicable to my character.

[J-mann]

Does Adrenaline still count as rage so blocked by defensive stances?

[SpardaX]

I'm not sure how devs think players handle unconsciousness...but here's how it works for melee.

1:
- Swing swing swing, get hit
- (drop unconscious to -10)
- get hit and drop to -300

2:
- swing swing swing, get hit
- (drop unconcious to -10)
- enemies start chasing the rest of your party and leave you there to maybe stabilize.

Well I don't know about you, but with just an Epic Greensteel +128/64/32 range item here's how it goes for me.

1:
- Swing swing swing, get hit
- (drop unconscious to -10)
- get hit and drop to -300
- Enemies stop.
- Heal.
- Get back up. Repeat. Don't die.

Or even better
2:
- swing swing swing, get hit
- (drop unconcious to -10)
- enemies start chasing the rest of your party and leave you there to maybe stabilize.
- Heal. Refer to 1.


Also I don't know if you know this, but when you heal you stabilize. Even if you're on negative 1000 and heal to -999. You're stable. If you're stable, in 10 seconds you get back up with 1/5~ health. I am actually hype for this tree because it's going to be great. If I'm in a party with my Epic GS item I never die unless I take an especially big hit. And the 350 more Unco range which will push me to about 600 unco range should take care of even that.

[SpardaX]

I've played an Alchemist with 3,000 hp and more than 1,000 hp unconscious range. The unconscious range almost never makes a difference in my experience. It just means you sometimes sit around unable to play the game for a little bit longer than you otherwise would, then you die anyway.

I would prefer to have the tree get some more PRR or MRR or HP instead of the unconscious range. Something to reflect the rough and tumble spirit of the tree. Even if they are low numbers, they'd be more useful than more unconscious range.

Also I tested the epic moment and I think my strength went from 99 to 104 or something like that - so it may not be working as intended?

Thanks for the preview!

If you have any way of recovering HP (which this tree gives you like 3 different ways, 2 of which work WHILE YOU'RE UNCONSCIOUS)....you should basically never die if you combine this tree with Alchemist's 1000 range. Unless you take more than 1500 damage in 1 attack and you happen to be critically low health already. If you fall Unco and the enemies go bother someone else, which is usually what happens unless you're soloing, and you heal even 1 hit point, you automatically become stable. If you're stable, after about 10 seconds if you aren't already in positive HP, you get up with about 1/5 HP. So for you, you'd get up with about 600hp, and be STILL HEALING. At that point, unless you're TRYING to die, dying would become a challenge.

Which I believe to the point where, when this update hits, if FoTW is still 350 Unco range with all this healing, I'm planning on making a green Alchemist with that +1000 Unco range because it'll be soooooo good. I'm holding my breath waiting.

[droid327]

Adrenaline is all. Adrenaline is life.

I really dont see any melee not taking T4 Fury for Adrenaline. 8s CD, massive damage boost. There's just nothing else in any other melee tree that compares with the efficacy of that. Even Dire Charge.

I guess we'll have to see what Fatesinger has to offer, especially in terms of the Epic Moment

Does Adrenaline still count as rage so blocked by defensive stances?

Nope! I just specced my Paladin into FotW and she's got her Sacred Defense stance on, Adrenaline works just fine.

[Grunthorno]

Will again be compiled from thoughts with Viamel and a few others, probably almost just as long as the sentinel post, if not longer.

-----------------------
Cores: Like the melee power, HP is nice. Uncon range is not something I really enjoy (Viamel likes it), although I see it save people plenty while playing a healer, so can't complain there, makes my job easier, less rezzes.
-----------------------
T1:

Acute Senses: I don't see a need for bonuses to trap saves, seeing them as actual saves instead of trap saves would be an improvement, even if the bonus was reduced to 1/2/3. 1% dodge doesn't matter as we're all capped. If it increased MDB and Max dodge, I'd 100% take it, but 1 flat dodge is meaningless as we'll be capping it regardless.

Multiselector:
Adrenaline: Similar to live, big number happy people, like it making autocrit.
Quick Cutter: The bane damage DoT would be interesting if it was off attack rate, but the base dot is very... underwhelming. 1d6 bane damage per attack would be better than the current damage at the 2 second intervals. Would also be nice to see it give a small bonus to uncapped dodge while using it (some folks thought it did before they used it), if it was giving uncapped dodge it'd be a consideration as a defensive boost/attack. The main issue with it: It has to compete with adrenaline, it'll need boosts to make that happen.

Savage Take Down: Trip DCs are nice, it's fun to see the bonus for the specific armor types. Solid choice.

Mantle of Fury: The helpless damage is nice, the healing is also decent for nonreaper/low reaper, scaling is decent, self-healing won't see much of any use at all as you go into higher reapers, but that's fine for part of the mantle imo.

Enduring: We like the PRR, it's sad to see the +% barb DR from live go though, putting that back would make this absolutely wonderful, otherwise I don't see it appealing enough to take it. Higher PRR or barb DR would make it better. Adding % DR off wilderness lore could be neat too (Druid/Ranger support)
-----------------------
T2:

Fast and Furious: Fantastic ability, we like this, this is good, very solid. However, make the icon into either an orange supra or Dom Toretto.

Fear my Vengeance: I like this, it's very cool. It's a support for low tier ravager, can be built as a barbarian and through primal scream.

I'm Always Angry: I like this, adding rages is very nice, let's anyone rage, adds to the fury theme of the tree. I'd like to see icon as a green man in purple shorts tho.

Primal Scream: This is a sad imitation of what it used to be. It's basically just the rage spell unless it's upgraded by the tier 4 enhancement, which has it all very expensive. Would like to see a cost reduction if it won't be increased in the stat buffs. The damage is decent and applies shaken while helps Fear my Vengeance. Can also proc Unquenchable rage. It's decent with all these enhancements, slight cooldown drop would be nice. Also very expensive to get all the abilities in the tree to make it worthwhile. Cool to have lots of synergy, but the tree is VERY expensive and hard to find room to grab them all. (Bug: Tooltip says +4 to all abilities on the buff bar while it gives +2 to STR/DEX/CON)

Gird Against Demons: Nice to get DR bypass, it's low and cheap in the tree. We like it.
-----------------------
T3:

Sense Weakness: Nice to keep the helpless bonuses, very nice that there's more fort bypass, as barbs tend to be lacking it. I also like the spread on helpless damage across the tree instead of the same enhancement.

Wild Weapons: Seeing Doublestrike/Offhand Chance/Strikethrough as a multiselector is wonderful, limits weapon choices less (dagger for offhand) or racials (helf/razorclaw), this is very nice.

Eternal Rage: I like the rage regens, helps with longer fights. However, I'd like to be able to regen them while raging, and preferably still having charges. If you want to keep it as nonraging, I'd like to see the % chance to regen one go up to at least 5%.

Furious/Spirit of the Beast: Furious is good, replaces the raging STR from primal hymn, enhances adren, great. Spirit of the Beast is.. well I'd like to see something other than the attack bonus as the base, the doubling of the Ram's Might/Animal Growth is buggy on lamma atm, as it'll apply then disappear immediately. Would be nice to see this enhance quick cutter would be nice, otherwise having it elsewhere in the tree could make it good as a standalone, but competing with adren is bad and needs to really have some punch to it as an enhancement to be an option.

Embrace the Pain: I'll never use it, Viamel will never use it, R10 players will almost never use this. Will probably be used for low reaper and casual gameplay to a great extent. Great for that situation, but we won't be taking it. For the purposes of the lower difficulties, I think the initial heal could stand to be higher.
-----------------------
T4:

Top Dog: Improved Trip is nice, this is cool. Fury is an expensive tree and this is t4, dropping to 1 point would be very nice.

The Voice of Fury: Using adren/quick cutter to make your primal scream better isn't a great idea personally, "feels like a trap for noobs", adren is very good, this is 4 points get 2 to your stats over the rage spell, which can be found in potion form. Using adrenaline to increase the damage is not great, the damage isn't enough to care about personally, and needing adren for the CC ability on it is not fun. Would be nice to see it give the tripled/confusion bonuses without using your active attack, or having it be cheaper than 4 points for the combo, as it is still a rather expensive tree.

Wade through: Same as Wild Weapons: But better. Bigger bonus, we're a fan.

Overwhelming Force/Primal Force: Overwhelming force is good, we like this. Primal Force is an underwhelming copy of symmetric strikes from primal avatar, giving only 2% instead of the previous 5%, and competes with adrenaline, I'd like to see it give better boosts, like bumping back to 5% at the least. Would again be cool if it was elsewhere in the tree, but if kept to compete with adren, needs more.

Unquenchable Rage: Using Primal Scream/Rage as a defensive clicky (and a heal at later ranks) is a fun mechanic/idea. I like the way it works, but the entire tree is very expensive and I'm not certain I'll be taking it due to lack of available points, can't get a decent spend with the DPS stuff. On the other hand, it's a very cool defensive option, especially for barb tanks. Could also see a slight duration increase as 5 seconds is very short.
-----------------------
T5: Could see these being cheaper, as taking them all would have us at 40 points in the tree, which is very limiting.

Lore of the Wilds: I like seeing higher % HP options for DPS, also gives support to barb tanks, this helps my first lifer defensively. Makes beefier melees, definitely a fan.

Scarred by Chaos: base HP and PRR is wonderful, defensively, also nice to enhance harbinger of chaos (which was nice offensively), again, beefier melees, I like it.

Unbridled Fury: This feels more like fury made placid than unbridled fury. I'd like to see this just... redone. Many people would be fine if it (and would like to see it) went back to the version on live. I'd also like to see more support for animal form damage in the epic moment, as animal form is losing all the bonuses it currently has in primal avatar from live and being thrown into fury of the wild, I like that, but something extra in the epic moment to show that it's really made for animals would be cool. Could even see it as a multiselector with one being for adrens and the other for quick cutter/animal forms?
Then for if you don't want to copy/paste from live, here's a few very epic ideas from the discord: Making the adren's BIGGER, adding an extra 100-200% during the epic moment while adding strikethrough. Uncapping strikethrough and giving massive strikethrough would be fun, and would be an epic moment for trash clearing instead of bosses, which is very unique. Folks mentioned setting strikethrough to 500% while keeping quick/cutter up 100% of the time for every attack.
It was mentioned that you have offhand strike and doublestrike automatically stuck at 100% the entire time with the more frequent adrens. Other stuff that was mentioned was that you can't go below 0 HP and every time you would be hit for a deadly amount of damage (enough to kill you), you'd be getting a % damage buff that stacks a few times.
For this ability we all just feel like it needs to feel like you're REALLY angry and are just going to PLOW through mobs because you DO NOT CARE what or who they are, you are going to destroy every single one of them and you'll feel no remorse for doing it. It basically just needs to be a bit more offensive than the STR/CON/DEX bonuses.

Nature's Fury: Crit multi good, we like crit multi, this is good.

The Great Leveler: It's a very nice ability, we like this, however, looking at other trees, like LD's Legendary Rally, they have a t5 autocrit for 1 point, while this costs 3 AP to get almost there, would like to see this drop down to 1 point as well.
-----------------------

Overall:
The tree is great, but the multiselectors have cool bonuses to passives competing with bonuses to adren, they don't feel like they line up and adren will win most of the time unless they have massive bonuses to make them a consideration. The entire tree is super expensive and could use cost reductions basically across the board. The epic moment doesn't... feel epic. More animal form bonuses would be nice to see.

[Bloodskittle]

Grun makes excellent points, definitely read that long post

[Duhboy]

Personally not a fan of Fast and Furious because when using said ability I sometimes find myself running around the enemy for some reason like Dire Charge and not doing damage. I prefer Boulder's Might to this. Simple and to the point without the bs.

[Arkat]

So this sounds to me like half of your starting strength after you distributed all your build points at character creation.

Example: I want to play a Human Barbarian and I put 16 of my 32 ( or 34, or 36) build points into Strength. That choice results in my character having a base 18 Strength. So I hit my "Epic Moment" and my Strength is increased by a whole 9 Strength.

Color me underwhelmed. The clickie on the un-upgraded 18th level Gloves of Titan's Grip from the Mindsunder quest in the Inspiration Quarter gives me a +6 Psionic bonus to Strength which lasts for an entire minute. On top of that, you can use the clickie 3 times with no cooldown between uses. I'll take that pair of 18th level gloves to help increase my damage over my so-called epic moment any day of the week.

Also, as someone mentioned above, Unconscious Range means your still unconscious and you're not all that furious if you're unconscious. If your toon is letting his or her unbridled fury go, they need to be doing a LOT of damage in a short period of time instead of laying there unconscious and not dying.

My suggested fix?

1. Instead of increasing your stats by a mere half of their base values for 30 seconds, increase them by half of their modified values for 30 seconds. So the regular 80 Strength your toon has just standing around on your guild airship means your epic moment Strength increases by 40. That's a big increase in damage that better reflects what it means to be in Unbridled Fury.

2. Instead of a +1000 HP Unconsciousness Range, change that to a +1000 temporary Hit Points as someone suggested above. That means your toon is up longer and can do more damage. Again, that better reflects what it means to be in Unbridled Fury.

3. The 10% healing every 5 seconds is nice so I'd leave that alone.

Make these changes, and now have a truly EPIC moment.

So I played around with Unbridled Fury on Lamannia last night. The results I got regarding the "and your Strength, Dexterity and Constitution are increased by half of their base values" piece were "bizarre," to say the least.

I transferred my Great Axe barb over to Lamannia, got all the Destiny points I was entitled to, and proceeded to spend points in the Fury of the Wild tree.

I then proceeded to activate my Ubridled Fury under various conditions. Every single time, I got +6 top STR, +5 to DEX, and +5 to CON.

I tried activating it with just my standing around stats, with my raged stats, with Primal Scream, with Frenzy, and my raged stats with Frenzy and Primal Scream active. Each time, I got +6 to STR, +5 to DEX, and +5 to CON.

My barb is a Half-Orc who put 16 points into STR (for a 20 STR right out of Character creation). I also put all 7 level up points into STR for a Base total of 27 STR as indicated on the Character Sheet. Also used a +8 STR tome and put 4 AP (from the Half-Orc racial tree) into STR to get +2 more STR. I also had STR items. My grand total STR while just standing there in no stances, no Rage, and no clickies was 69.

My barb's standing around DEX is just 41. I put no leveling up points in DEX but did use a +8 DEX tome. I used no enhancement points for DEX and I don't think I have any DEX items.

My Barb's standing around CON is 66. I put 16 build points into it (for an 18 CON right out of Character creation). I put no level up points into it for a Base total of 18 as indicated by the Character Sheet. I did use a +8 CON tome and put 6 AP into a couple of the barb trees to get +3 CON. I have several CON items, too.

When I triggered Unbridled Fury with my standing around stats, they went from 69 STR to 75 STR, 41 DEX to 46 DEX, and 66 CON to 71 CON.

As I said above, even if I went into Rage or used things like Frenzy and Primal Scream, I still get the same +6 to STR, +5 to DEX, and +5 to CON. NONE of these additions to my stats are half of ANYTHING.

Please investigate, Torc.

Thanks.

[Ganak]

Representing Dex based TWF melee, may I add a few points please:


I think the proposed destinies overlook this niche, which I would argue is a core niche to DnD.


Consider the concept of finesse weapons, core to the game from the start (it's a OG feat). Dex is also core to the Tempest heroic enhancement line.


In recent years, there has been a rise in Int, Wis and Chr to hit/dmg courtesy of universal enhancements, but Dex is different and core to the game. Dex as a primary stat for fighting is real in and out of DnD.


What am I overlooking? Do any of the destinies meld decently with Dex/TWF?


Let me suggest some ideas for Fury:
1. Allow Dex as alternate primary stat for Trip.
2. Alternate selector for Adrenaline that doesn't add hate. I'm not a fan of DoTs as found in cutter and find them only beneficial for 2% of gameplay.
3. Up Primal Force to 5% damage.

[darkriderz]

So I played around with Unbridled Fury on Lamannia last night. The results I got regarding the "and your Strength, Dexterity and Constitution are increased by half of their base values" piece were "bizarre," to say the least.

I transferred my Great Axe barb over to Lamannia, got all the Destiny points I was entitled to, and proceeded to spend points in the Fury of the Wild tree.

I then proceeded to activate my Ubridled Fury under various conditions. Every single time, I got +6 top STR, +5 to DEX, and +5 to CON.

I tried activating it with just my standing around stats, with my raged stats, with Primal Scream, with Frenzy, and my raged stats with Frenzy and Primal Scream active. Each time, I got +6 to STR, +5 to DEX, and +5 to CON.

My barb is a Half-Orc who put 16 points into STR (for a 20 STR right out of Character creation). I also put all 7 level up points into STR for a Base total of 27 STR as indicated on the Character Sheet. Also used a +8 STR tome and put 4 AP (from the Half-Orc racial tree) into STR to get +2 more STR. I also had STR items. My grand total STR while just standing there in no stances, no Rage, and no clickies was 69.

My barb's standing around DEX is just 41. I put no leveling up points in DEX but did use a +8 DEX tome. I used no enhancement points for DEX and I don't think I have any DEX items.

My Barb's standing around CON is 66. I put 16 build points into it (for an 18 CON right out of Character creation). I put no level up points into it for a Base total of 18 as indicated by the Character Sheet. I did use a +8 CON tome and put 6 AP into a couple of the barb trees to get +3 CON. I have several CON items, too.

When I triggered Unbridled Fury with my standing around stats, they went from 69 STR to 75 STR, 41 DEX to 46 DEX, and 66 CON to 71 CON.

As I said above, even if I went into Rage or used things like Frenzy and Primal Scream, I still get the same +6 to STR, +5 to DEX, and +5 to CON. NONE of these additions to my stats are half of ANYTHING.

Please investigate, Torc.

Thanks.

Standing around stats have nothing to do with the base. it should be giving you impact on 27 str, and 18 con. tomes, items, etc will not impact it. still seems lower than it should, but you wont be getting half of your current stat added

[darkriderz]

Representing Dex based TWF melee, may I add a few points please:


I think the proposed destinies overlook this niche, which I would argue is a core niche to DnD.


Consider the concept of finesse weapons, core to the game from the start (it's a OG feat). Dex is also core to the Tempest heroic enhancement line.


In recent years, there has been a rise in Int, Wis and Chr to hit/dmg courtesy of universal enhancements, but Dex is different and core to the game. Dex as a primary stat for fighting is real in and out of DnD.


What am I overlooking? Do any of the destinies meld decently with Dex/TWF?


Let me suggest some ideas for Fury:
1. Allow Dex as alternate primary stat for Trip.
2. Alternate selector for Adrenaline that doesn't add hate. I'm not a fan of DoTs as found in cutter and find them only beneficial for 2% of gameplay.
3. Up Primal Force to 5% damage.

Shadowdancer may be more your cup of tea, lots of goodies in there for twf

[GoldyGopher]

Shadowdancer may be more your cup of tea, lots of goodies in there for twf

Other than 10% Off Hand Strike in Tier 1, what else is there?

The question on where to spend points for a TWF Non-Rogue Assassin build has been troubling me as well.

[darkriderz]

Other than 10% Off Hand Strike in Tier 1, what else is there?

The question on where to spend points for a TWF Non-Rogue Assassin build has been troubling me as well.

more sneak damage, dark imbuement etc all scale better on twf than any other fighting style