U51 Preview 1: Divine Crusader

[Arkat]

I played DC quite awhile. My general feedback is the tree is great: its thematic, balanced, and fun to play.

- The synergy between Crusade, Smite, and Cower is very fun and useful
- I would like to say I tested the doublestrike on shield bash, but Lam is so laggy it's had to tell. I did discover, however, that shields are either whiffing alot of their attacks or their hit box needs to be bigger.
- The Epic Moment needs some DPS love. While I couldn't test, something needs to be added so you come off dat horse poppin off. I'm thinking something similar to a For Cormyr! ability: For Cormyr!: you and all nearby allies gain a Morale bonus to weapon damage equal to your Charisma modifier for one minute. It's also very thematic.

Agreed on all points, especially about your suggested change to the Epic Moment. The horse thingy sounds way too gimmicky. Just give me a "For Cormyr!"-type DPS boost and I'll be happy.

This tree might be good enough for me to pick up my Vanguard again. Here's to hoping!

[elvesunited]

hey axel
some of my wonderings presage the advent of return to sword and board
ive commented that it feels out of place there is so little of it
so perhap, as ive looked over these trees,
they are forming a new meta, where the encouragement is to be surf and turf

ive had shields i always wondered what for
just tank builds? seems so
or healbot clerics
but not any kind of dps fashion
even tho there is vanguard
but truly, i never see it played
neither heroics or epics
so, ok bring it back through forced epic trees?

ok i agree, multiselectors would be nice
it seems they breadth quite a bit in this manueuver

I've got a vanguard paladin as one of my alts.
He lags behind other paladins for damage but is good for an r1 romp.
The trouble is .... this isn't the tree for him.

Gotta go Tier 5 for fury of the wild so i can mix in adrenaline with shield strikes and pump up that DPS.
And then a choice between Unyielding( shield bonuses ) / Grandmaster ( +6 Stun ) / Dreadnought ( +3 Tactics ) / Divine Crusader ( smite )

[Corzak]

I played around with the tree a bit, mostly testing on the kobalds, but also a couple quick quests. Overall I'm not finding the changes terribly inspiring, but there are some things that are nice. On Live, a melee character can give up a big slice of damage (vs other melee destinies) in order to gain a solid amount of low maintenance healing and some group support to play in Divine Crusader. With the current changes, it feels like the damage potential is down even more as well as the group support being reduced slightly. Part of my gripe with damage is the inability to get increased damage to helpless enemies without swapping to a different Mantle. I'm assuming this change is intentional, and if it stands I'll learn to work with it, but I won't have to be happy about it!

The only major change I really appreciate is the removal of the cast time/animation for Consecration. That feels like a very nice bump in the right direction. I did like the way Consecration, Sacred Ground and Crusade were combined into only 2 abilities. I didn't think to test if the Crusade +10% damage buff was reapplying or just lasted 4 seconds. If it isn't reapplying, that will be greatly missed.

Cower Before Me is a cool ability, and linking it to Crusade is fun and has the potential to be effective and efficient. I'm not sold on it being tied to Sunder instead of Stun, maybe just because I've stacked Stun on my melee characters and now I'll have to stack Stun and Sunder if I plan to use Divine Crusader.

The Aura of Purification + No Remorse combo will be missed, for sure. I know there is a healing component added through the Divine Smite ability, but with it's limited use and long cooldown, it seems a little lackluster.

I wasn't very happy to see that Strike Down wasn't included with the revamp. Nice cleave for builds that don't have many available or feats to spare.

I'm very interested to see how the Epic Moment: Celestial Steed is implemented. As it reads it seems like a great way to run around doing no damage for 4 seconds, applying some debuffs and a stun that has the same duration as the ability? Epic Comedy: Celestial Clown Car? Sorry to be flippant but I'm not getting good vibes from this description!

Bring Down Wrath has been covered by many others in this thread, and I agree that it needs to have some sort of multi-selector, or just a bonus not tied to shields at all.

[Seph1roth5]

Maybe we the players need to rethink the idea of epic moments. Maybe every tree doesn't NEED one. Or they don't need to be universal. Like on live, reborn in light has a 10 min cooldown, but is a self res and a 2 min buff. That's vastly different from turn the tide's 45 sec buff, 3 min cooldown. And blitz's cooldown is irrelevant because you could keep it up for the whole quest with effort.

I think the celestial steed would work very well as an epic non-moment. Ditch the CC immunity and just make it a good 12 sec debuff with a 1 min cooldown. Maybe make it a dash like spring attack instead of a 4 second...thing.

[DaviMOC]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Axiom of Faith: Multiselector: Choose a Religion from the full list of Religions. You are now considered a follower of that religion, including being able to use its Favored Weapon.

Does it Stacks with the original religion of a cleric/fvs/paladin? Will we be able to have 2 blessings and other deity feats or its a replacer? Or it is limited to the "favored by X" feat?
Do they share CDs? Anyone got a Cleric/FVs copied and tested it? I have none right now.

Looks like sun elfs will finally get some place under the sun XD.

[Arkat]

Maybe we the players need to rethink the idea of epic moments. Maybe every tree doesn't NEED one. Or they don't need to be universal. Like on live, reborn in light has a 10 min cooldown, but is a self res and a 2 min buff. That's vastly different from turn the tide's 45 sec buff, 3 min cooldown. And blitz's cooldown is irrelevant because you could keep it up for the whole quest with effort.

Yeah, that makes sense - an Epic Destiny that doesn't allow you to do something Epic at the moment it's needed.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Paladin is my favorite class, so this is the tree I'm most invested in. As it stands, it falls short of my expectations.

Divine Crusader is a tree about getting in close and dealing damage with holy weaponry and your shield.

I get that this tree has some offensive shield stuff whereas Sentinel has the defensive shield stuff. A reminder though: not all holy weapons are 1 handed.

Core 3 (level 23): Confront any Foe: Your weapons are immune to durability damage. +3 to all saving throws.

I accept it, but am not impressed. Paladin saves are already terrific. This seems more appealing to all the faux paladins out there. I'd prefer no fail on 1 save or a multiselector.

Tier 1 (req level 20):

I am satisfied with all tier 1 options.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Holy Mantle: Divine Crusader Destiny Mantle:

• Weapons and Shields you wield are considered to have your alignment for DR purposes. Your Base Attack Bonus is now equal to your Character Level.
• Shield of Light: +2/4/6 PRR and MRR. Rank 3: You gain Magic Missile immunity (as per the Shield spell) while holding a shield.

It is disheartening to me that Holy Mantle Does almost NOTHING for a pure paladin, KotCs in particular will all cry, "Yay, I can do lawful damage now!" (Which will bypass almost no DR that good didn't already). Don't suppose you'd be willing to toss in Metaline? On favored weapons at least?
It is also a shame that Aureon, the Lord of Blades, Silvanus, and the Silver Flame don't protect their followers from magic missile like the other deities do. I guess they don't love them as much. (How about a change to Rank 3: You gain Magic Missile immunity (as per the Shield spell) while holding a shield OR FAVORED WEAPON?

Tier 3 (req level 23):

• Axiom of Faith: Multiselector: Choose a Religion from the full list of Religions. You are now considered a follower of that religion, including being able to use its Favored Weapon.
• Strike with Poise: Your Divine Crusader Destiny Mantle grants Favored Weapons an additional +1/2/3 to their enhancement bonus. Rank 3: Favored Weapons are also now considered Implements to you automatically, and gain +1W.
• How Dare You: Being struck by magic has a 10/20/30% chance to regenerate a Smite Evil. Rank 3: Getting hit below 50% will automatically Consecrate the ground beneath your feet. Can only happen once every 2 minutes.

I assume Axiom gives full favored weapon status to the selected weapon, and not merely proficiency.
Strike with poise is a very nice mantle ability. Too bad the lower tier was often worthless (Metaline--we're all pulling for you!)
How Dare You? (Auctioneer's voice): 2 minutes. I hear 2 minutes. Can I get 90 seconds? 90 seconds anyone? Is there a 90 seconds in the house?

Tier 4 (req level 26):

Tier 4 stuff seems okay to me.

Tier 5 (req level 30):

• Epic Moment: Celestial Steed:[/COLOR] Conjure a blessed mount and travel forwards for 4 seconds while retaining the ability to steer your character, becoming immune to all forms of CC for the duration and for 20 seconds after that. Enemies you run over while on the mount are subject to a Cower effect and a Divine Sundering effect. (Divine Sundering: -10% AC, -25% Fortification, -3 Saving Throws. Lasts 12 seconds.)
• Bring Down Wrath: Your shield is now considered a Favored Weapon for the purposes of your Divine Crusader Destiny Mantle, and now doublestrikes at 50% of the rate of your Mainhand Doublestrike as if it were an offhand weapon
• Mighty Crusade: Smite Evil attacks apply the Crusade buff to your entire party for 4 seconds. You gain +1 AC and +1 PRR for every 2 Religious Lore feats you have.

[/LIST]

Might Crusade seems cool. I like it.
Bring down the wrath just goes to show that Thor (Onatar) is a better than Silvanus when it comes to putting the hammer down. If only the 2hw deities had a way to throw their wrath around too...
and lastly Godiva's Heavenly Horsey Ride:
...
4 seconds of riding around while enemies gawk at you.
...
If they miss their save they will be debuffed for 8-12 seconds after you hop down and put your clothes back on.
...
...
I CAN'T wait to see how much the party will love it when I bust out this 4 second long, no damage, EPIC MOMENT on a Legendary Raid boss!
I hope it leaves a sparkling rainbow in its wake.

[Kelledren]

How about this change for the epic moment: you summon your holy mount which then kicks and bucks enemies around you, causing a +5W cleave every 3 seconds for 9 seconds and cause all the soft cc described in epic moment above to those within cleave range. This way you still get to perform your actions as well, and do some damage over a little bit of time. Riding horse would look cool but not sure if practical.

In DnD my favorite mounts were more intelligent than me and fought next to me

[grudgebear]

Bring Down Wrath: Your shield is now considered a Favored Weapon for the purposes of your Divine Crusader Destiny Mantle, and now double strikes at 50% of the rate of your Mainhand Doublestrike as if it were an offhand weapon

This is part of destiny mantle which means this is part of whole DC sauce we get, it's cool that shields gets much needed attention. They need a buff.
This is T5 ability, but I disagree that this part of mantle favors only shields, nothing is gained when other type of fighting style is chosen.
Maybe a multiselector that buffs other type of fighting styles.

[Kamaelde]

Warning:
Sorry in advance for the upcoming Wall of Text!


Including some useful links:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6464225
https://ddowiki.com/page/Knight_of_t...e_enhancements
https://ddowiki.com/page/Warpriest_enhancements
https://ddowiki.com/page/War_Soul_enhancements
https://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Crusader
https://ddowiki.com/page/Divine_Disciple_enhancements
https://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Servant_enhancements


I'm going to come at this from more of a mythos perspective of what sort of theme this Tree is and who it's for. Rather than what is currently most competitive, talk about the abilities, what is wrong with them and what can be made to make it a viable option, and to stick with the theme.


I play as a Warpriest, not attacking anyone here, but unfortunately the current meta for Melee Clerics has shifted off base from authenticity and canon, and I am afraid we are starting to head into times where perhaps the current meta will be so influential it can affect future game design and becoming established reality. But the players are playing with the numbers we are given, making the best of it, trying to make it work. Doing so while losing track of what the original intent was from the start, and not staying true to itself.

What appears to be the major ruling consensus of what a Melee Cleric is nowadays, seems to be one who runs around with a bird, a two handed weapon, not using Warpriest as the main Heroic Enhancement Tree, not dealing Light/Fire/Good/Holy/Lawful damage nor feeling like a Holy Warrior in any sense of the meaning.
So you run into the question then, why even bother being a Cleric at all at this point, is it just for the heals and theme be damned?
Again not attacking anyone here, I'm all for build diversity, but it feels like we have strayed too far and not even thinking about the original founding principle when looking forward.
I don't mind that the optimal possible numbers would come from splashing to min max, for those who would prefer to go off course.


And when reading the vision that went into this:

"Divine Crusader is a tree about getting in close and dealing damage with holy weaponry and your shield."

I thought oh yes, this is exactly what I want my modus operandi to be when dealing with enemies.

And there are certainly elements I like about this Epic Destiny, and abilities I can benefit from that are in line with that said method.

I want to be a Battleborn warrior Cleric in a Heavy Full Plate with a Morningstar blunt weapon and a Tower Shield wearing down and weakening the enemies defenses, healing my allies automatically through my fighting, dealing Holy, Good, Law, Light, and Fire damage with my blows.
I want to be a Lawful Good character, fighting and pushing back the forces of Evil and Chaos, being a Beacon of Light, showing the way and giving strength to bring out the best of the people around me.

Consecration (Epic Strike): Matches well with helping and healing those around me without me casting a separate heal, and the Cower Before Me seems very cool and welcome since I lack all forms of hard CC, I like the fact that it's going of Sunder, since that's what I've been using while leveling, I even looked into getting Improved Sunder but decided against it since I didn't have the Feat Points to spend on it, so very glad to see it added here as an option! Along with the extra Sunder DCs.

So I really like the idea here of letting me add Embodiment of Law & Law of the Divine, for Lawful alignment damage and Armor Destruction.
Divine Crusader Destiny Mantle: and Shield abilities are cool and welcomed, I don't use Shield bash but I think it's cool and that it should be an option.


Now for the things I have a problem with, which all pretty much comes down to one thing, that this Tree now feels a lot more like a continuation of the Knight of the Chalice Paladin Tree than it did before, and less like the other two Melee focused Holy Warriors. (War Soul & Warpriest)


I love the fact this Tree focuses on Smiting your Foes; I in fact have an active ability I use all the time that is a Smite, but its called Smite Foe, unfortunately we can't use that here.

And reading the explanation of the thought process, to focus on your existing Heroic Class Abilities:

"because I want you to use existing abilities in new and cool ways, instead of giving tons of new ones,
that way instead of replacing stuff on your actives bar it feels like your actives are getting better over time"

And others chiming in agreeing about upgrading class abilities is fun, I too totally agree with this, except...
I don't upgrade class abilities, I am replacing them with new ones, from the paladin tree, which scales with Paladin levels and Charisma, an Ability Score I gave up as a Warpriest for Strength, perhaps Smite Evil here is or can be changed to scale with your highest Ability Score like a lot of others have been. But that still would only be semi interesting, in lack of other options available.



It is really fun upgrading class abilities, like two examples from the Warpriest/War Soul Tree that matches this Melee focused Holy Warrior theme, one in new and cool ways, and the other getting better over time: Smite Foe & Divine Vessel. Only including parts here.


First Core Ability: Smite Foe: Choose a melee or ranged attack that deals additional damage.
Tier Two: Smite Weakness: When you strike an enemy with Smite Foe, they gain four to seven stacks of Vulnerable.
Tier Four: Ameliorating Strike: When you strike an enemy with Smite Foe, you and your nearby allies are healed by 1d3 per character level, and benefit from the effects of the Lesser Restoration spell. (The heal from Ameliorating Strike is affected by your Positive Spell Power.)

Tier Five: Divine Vessel: Your attacks generate a stack of Divine Conduit. When Divine Conduit reaches 25, all stacks are cleared and you gain one charge of this attack.
Choose between Melee and Ranged attacks:
Divine Vessel (Melee Attack): Active: Melee Favored Weapon Cleave Attack: Expend 1 charge. Make a sweeping weapon attack against all nearby enemies for +5(W) damage.
Each affected enemy is hit by a meteor, taking 1 to 4 Fire and 1 to 4 Light Damage per character level. (Damage from the meteor is affected by Fire and Light Spell power.) Shares its cooldown with the Great Cleave feat.

First Core Ability: Smite Foe: Passive: +5 Fire Spell Power, +5 Light Spell Power.
Second Core Ability: Resilience of Battle: Passive: Fire Spell Power, +5 Light Spell Power.
Third Core Ability: Sanctuary: Passive: +5 Fire Spell Power, +5 Light Spell Power.
Fourth Core Ability: War Caster: Blur: Passive: +5 Fire Spell Power, +5 Light Spell Power.
Fifth Core Ability: War Caster: Haste: Passive: +5 Fire Spell Power, +5 Light Spell Power.
Sixth Core Ability: Implacable Foe: Passive: Divine Vessel now triggers on reaching 20 stacks of Divine Conduit, instead of 25. Passive: +5 Fire Spell Power, +5 Light Spell Power.


It requires you to be pure 20 in Cleric/Favored Soul, but you get scaling all along the way and an upgrade in the end, and it feels very rewarding to work toward the end Synergy.
But then it ends, right there, you just had this massive investment, and you are very pot committed at this point, it sure would be cool if only you could continue this Melee focused Holy Warrior Heroic Enhancement Tree in some Melee focused Holy Warrior Epic Destiny Tree somewhere.

When designing my Melee focused Holy Warrior I looked at where to get Morningstar as a Favored Weapon, one was to splash Paladin, for the ability Tier Two: Adept Combatant. And ruin your chances at getting the Sixth Core Ability and Capstone in the War Soul/Warpriest Trees.

The other was in the old Divine Crusader Epic Destiny Tree, this tree, which I planned as my Active.
It's now removed from the Book of War/Axiom of Faith: Multiselector,
I get this is about the Deity/Religion, and preferably Arawai (Sovereign Host)(Morningstar) should be added as a Level 1 option when choosing a religion, but barring that, it should be added in this Axiom of Faith, or at least, still be an option without the Religion associated with it in this tree like the Book of War. But this is not a problem for Knight of the Chalice.


And then we come to Light & Fire Spell power that's been piling up through these two Trees, are basically not utilized in here at all, sure a little Fire Spell Power in Consecrate, but it's less than it used to be, and as someone said on the forum:
"I understand you are combining things here but this is a pretty big nerf. 1 point of fire damage compared to 1d6 per level, half of which was Fire, half Good damage."

And we are removing the:
Old Divine Crusader: Tier Six: Celestial Bombardment, which is a Fire Spell Power Evocation SLA, one I agree felt wrong, I loved reading the Divine Vessel tooltip, a Melee Favored Weapon Great Cleave that sent down a Meteor that dealt both Light and Fire damage, that is super cool! And very useful to have some AoE.
And then reading the Celestial Bombardment which I now get is supposed to sort of feel the same, well to me Celestial Bombardment does not feel like something for my Melee focused Holy Warrior it feels more like a Spellcaster ability, and it doesn't do any Light damage, and I won't have high Evocation DCs on this character.

But what if we could make it more attractive by just changing it slightly and combining it, with what seems to be by far the most sorely missed ability in this Tree, Old Divine Crusader: Tier Six: Strike Down.

You would get something that was instead more like Divine Vessel, a Melee Favored Weapon Cleave that sent down Three Stars from the Heavens at your target, and you would get the Fire damage from the Celestial Bombardment side, and the Cleave, Light damage and Smite from the Strike Down, side. This idea could maybe even replace the Epic Moment: Celestial Steed, that seem to have quite a few on the fence. Maybe put it on the Normal Cleave or untyped Cleave cooldown.


Then another thing that was removed was:
Old Divine Crusader: Tier Two: Flames of Purity: Passive Bonus: +[10/20/30] Fire Spell Power.
Having this or perhaps slightly lower with this and Light combined to work in tandem with the above suggestion, or, my favorite, even lower than that but having it as Universal, so it could give both Fire, Light, and Positive spell power to help with your AoE Heals(well all heals for that matter).

This could also be what's missing from the very first:
"Core 1 (level 20) Just Cause: Each core including this one in this tree provides +15 Hit Points, +10 Melee and +8 Ranged Power."
Other Epic Destinies have that, plus something extra in that Core, this makes this one feel a little lackluster and that somethings missing, it could be that each point spent in this Tree gives to this scaling?

And finally, last point about what's been changed compared to old tree through a Warpriest/War Soul perspective, so we been talking about how we don't get any extra spell power anymore, nor do we get anything that utilizes it anymore, something like:
Old Divine Crusader: Tier Three: Empyrean Magic: Passive Bonus: Whenever you cast a fire, light, or healing spell you gain a stack of Empyrean Fervor.
Each stack of Empyrean Fervor gives you +2 Sacred bonus to Universal Spell power, +1% Sacred Bonus to Critical Chance with all spells. Duration: 10 seconds. Stacks 10 times.
I do like the Sacred bonus to Universal Spell power, but the Sacred Bonus to Critical Chance with all spells, feels out of place and more in line with a spellcaster, if we instead change that part to help with Melee somehow or Confirm Critical Hits for example.


If that could work so that the Fire & Light of Divine Vessel and the mentioned new Strike Down, could trigger the Light & Fire Parts, the Consecration part could trigger the Fire, and Healing, although while we are at it, might as well add Light damage to the Consecration for consistency and cohesion and to make up for the Good damage loss, and maybe Ameliorating Strike could also trigger the Healing proc.

There may well be a big numbers reason why Melee Clerics aren't using Warpriest and Divine Vessel/Light & Fire damage. But trying to research reviews and videos I still haven't seen anyone who gave it a fair shot, they were coming at it from their previous build, trying to splash in it, using minimum investment and judging it from that standpoint, if it truly is very weak when you instead have it as your main focus, slotting level 20 Warpriest Capstone, using the Divine Disciple Cleric Heroic Enhancement Tree to try to increase your Universal and Light Spell Power, and the Radiant Servant Cleric Heroic Enhancement Tree for the Universal and Positive Spell Power instead of Active Heal Abilities, would it be enough healing from Ameliorating Strike and Consecrate Combined with this increased scaling?
And same with the damage numbers, it probably wouldn't be topping the DPS charts myself, but what about as a damage buffer, would the Consecrate work together with the:
Warpriest/War Soul: Sixth Core Ability: Implacable Foe Activate: You and nearby allies gain 100 Temporary Hit Points and their attacks will deal 10% additional damage.
For the next 18 seconds, these bonuses will refresh every 3 seconds on you and each ally that remains in range.
These effects will expire 5 seconds after they are no longer refreshed. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
To help bring up the damage of all those around me during Bosses & Raids?


And if this is still not enough, let's look at options that open up the possibilities, maybe people want to run Warpriest, but there is no support to develop further upon their abilities, maybe people want to use one handed blunt, but two handed weapons just have better crit and damage profiles currently? Would adding a bonus to Crit Threat for one handed blunt in this Tree make it more viable, one that is not interfering with the other sources, bring one handed blunts up without taking anything away from Two handed weapon users?


And I'm not trying to take anything away from the Knight of the Chalice Paladin players either for that matter, but it feels like a lot has been taken away from War Soul & Warpriest when we start to compile and compare this now, perhaps a solution can be to add those new(read old spells I named).

Or another option could be a choice at the start, if you want the Knight of the Chalice(Smite Evil Path) or the War Soul/Warpriest (Smite Foe/Divine Vessel Path), if you want your Epic Destiny abilities to improve/upgrade those Heroic Class abilities instead. Because this feels like this has been designed from a Knight of the Chalice vantage point in mind, and not from a War Soul/Warpriest Mind frame.


If it's viable to go the Universal/Light/Spell Positive power Holy Warrior route, albeit slightly below the power curve, I wouldn't mind it being sort of like a Late game carry, and tie it in with the Faith Ethos, you can choose the Wide Path, filled with short term gain and temptation or stay true to your convictions and choose the Narrow Path when there's all these reasons telling you not too, but if you persevere through the challenges and hardships you get rewarded by your God and Ascend in the end. Is it possible to then perhaps implement your Light & Fire Spell Power to your weapon hits, to try to tie that connection more to into your melee style, that your God's power is represented in each of your blows. Either that so it gives you your Spell power directly, or it could be that it unlocks the damage type of the weapon itself to scale with it's spell power, so let's say we want a weapon that maybe has Light, Fire and Aligned to help with our Lawful and Good: Suncrusher could then be a good choice.
https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Suncrusher


Sure this might come across as me just wanting buffs or whatever, but picture yourself this, you are a newly leveled 20 War Soul/Warpriest player, which Epic Destiny do you pick?
Which one if not this one should be your obvious choice, the one designed with you in mind? I really want this Tree to be the one to use for this Theme.
The Divine Crusader Epic Destiny Tree feels like it should be made for the Three Melee focused Holy Warrior Heroic Enhancement Trees: Knights of the Chalice, War Soul and Warpriest, right now, it seems to have forgotten about two of them.

[Qeistalan]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Divine Crusader is a tree about getting in close and dealing damage with holy weaponry and your shield.

Core 3 (level 23): Confront any Foe: Your weapons are immune to durability damage. +3 to all saving throws.

Tier 2 (req level 20):

• Shield of Light: +2/4/6 PRR and MRR. Rank 3: You gain Magic Missile immunity (as per the Shield spell) while holding a shield.
  

Why are abilities in this tree tied to shield-exclusive use? Isn't that what Unyielding Sentinel is for?

Why Core 3: immunity to durability damage? This seems extremely weak. Core 3 for Shadowdancer is Dimension Door! Why isn't this "Choose an alignment not your own for your wielded weapon(s)" similar to Core 3 for GMOF?

Why does Shield of Light require a shield? Sacred Defender's Sacred Shield doesn't require a shield at all. Why exclude Single-handers/Two-handers/Two-weapon melees from the MM immunity? [Who knows if orb is excluded, and not really my point.] Any handheld weapon should suffice for the "focus". [Wouldn't a SHIELD OF LIGHT be made of ENERGY anyway, and not a physical manifestation?]

[Pandjed]

Why are abilities in this tree tied to shield-exclusive use? Isn't that what Unyielding Sentinel is for?

Because it's base idea in the new design is to be an extension of the Vanguard tree (as in offense shield use). As many favored weapons are one-handed and can make shields favored weapons, there may be some benefit to it.

With the number of shields and several of them geared towards offense, it may become an interesting option, as shield bashing used to lack enough support in epics. For vanguards, it's a direct update, while I still have to test whether warpriest/-souls may make it work good enough. Overall, may make sword&board builds more popular again, and fighters will most likely love it for the rather good working self-heal (and the fact, you can make B-swords favored weapons).

What I do have a bit of a beef with is how US and DC both look paladin-related, using paladin-specific mechanics (in DC it's smite evil and as an extension/alternative to the vanguard tree, it becomes more obvious), while I always perceived DC as a cleric-related ED and therefore expected to see a use of turn undead here instead. And if smite is supposed to be a core mechanic, wouldn't it be great to make another kind of smite which works off your Turn Undead bonuses instead?

[DaviMOC]

Because it's base idea in the new design is to be an extension of the Vanguard tree (as in offense shield use). As many favored weapons are one-handed and can make shields favored weapons, there may be some benefit to it.

It is at least an odd design choice . Most EDs took a less specialized turn like GMoF. Even FotW is not 2hf centered anymore. Its nice to have something to support Vanguard on Epics but would be better to have more generic benefits or at least multiselectors with at least a choice for each deity weapon in game or a generic benefit as choice. Vanguard is exclusive to paladins and fighters . Offensive shields outside of this are not that great. Divine warriors fights in many styles, this preview while is great to see vanguard supported is a bit limiting.

[Pandjed]

It is at least an odd design choice . Most EDs took a less specialized turn like GMoF. Even FotW is not 2hf centered anymore. Its nice to have something to support Vanguard on Epics but would be better to have more generic benefits or at least multiselectors with at least a choice for each deity weapon in game or a generic benefit as choice. Vanguard is exclusive to paladins and fighters . Offensive shields outside of this are not that great. Divine warriors fights in many styles, this preview while is great to see vanguard supported is a bit limiting.

Aside from t5 "Bring Down Wrath" (mantle addition), there are enough good reasons for the mantle and enough decent enhancements to avoid shield use, at least. Other than that, there are exactly 3 other enhancements that even mentions a shield:

• Shield of Justice (t1): Is a t1, easily dodged
• Holy Mantle (t2): Also works on your normal weapons
• Shield of Light (t2): Only rank 3 mentions shields, and I think that MM immunity is nice, but no must-have and +6 MRR/PRR is already quite good in itself

I guess this impression of this shield-focus solely stems from "Bring Down Wrath", and that may be solved by a simple multi-selector, which increases your doublestrike to keep true to its intention. Much better with a shield still (unless the doublestrike number is bloated), but would be good for the future, when you actually need these points to achieve higher cores.

I'm kinda sad, that I missed the chance to see if this destiny may really promote S&B-playstyle for things other than vanguards (tbh, also vanguards) from obscurity to more prominent. Because the shield buffs seem very solid, and with the shield mastery line giving doublestrike (and the newish additions of adding to EDF, a greater and a superior feat), this may be all part of a larger plan to make shields more attractive.
What does it offer for other styles? Pure damage added, a quick and reliable self-heal that also CCs, and several defensive benefits. Add something from the other trees you think may lack, and this could work for many characters.

[Kelledren]

It is at least an odd design choice . Most EDs took a less specialized turn like GMoF. Even FotW is not 2hf centered anymore. Its nice to have something to support Vanguard on Epics but would be better to have more generic benefits or at least multiselectors with at least a choice for each deity weapon in game or a generic benefit as choice. Vanguard is exclusive to paladins and fighters . Offensive shields outside of this are not that great. Divine warriors fights in many styles, this preview while is great to see vanguard supported is a bit limiting.

While having an ED that supports and makes Vanguards a viable option is great, these shield specific abilities should be multi-selectors to give options for non vanguards. Multi-selector abilities leaning cleric/war soul would definitely make sense. There should optimally be zero selections in your primary ED tree that do not support your build at least a little, multi-selectors help achieve this. This should be considered across all the ED trees.

[Pandjed]

While having an ED that supports and makes Vanguards a viable option is great, these shield specific abilities should be multi-selectors to give options for non vanguards. Multi-selector abilities leaning cleric/war soul would definitely make sense. There should optimally be zero selections in your primary ED tree that do not support your build at least a little, multi-selectors help achieve this. This should be considered across all the ED trees.

I guess we posted around the same time, that's why you may have not read my comment above. Basically, from 43 enhancements, exactly 4 are even mentioning shields, and only 2 works solely for shields (the other two are good enough on their own). It's not much.

Just add a multiselector to Bring Down Wrath (t5) that instead gives doublestrike, and that should cover that one enhancement, which may have caused ppl to make much more fuss to the shield-use than actually appropriate.

[Kelledren]

I guess we posted around the same time, that's why you may have not read my comment above. Basically, from 43 enhancements, exactly 4 are even mentioning shields, and only 2 works solely for shields (the other two are good enough on their own). It's not much.

Just add a multiselector to Bring Down Wrath (t5) that instead gives doublestrike, and that should cover that one enhancement, which may have caused ppl to make much more fuss to the shield-use than actually appropriate.

Yeah I didn’t see your post which was far better feedback than what I provided. Yeah the biggest issue is the t5 mantle. All mantles being exclusive from other mantles, have to hit on effectiveness for what you want out of the tree. Having t5 Bring Down Wrath bring doublestrike would be perfect, especially after U50. I wouldn’t even have it as a multi-selector.. if your not using a shield then doesn’t matter anyway. This is assuming the ~5% to 10% offhand doublestrike would not be too OP for Vanguards or 7-feat-deep S&Bs (prob understatement).

The t1 shield bash is avoidable, but also a solid place for a multi-selector to buff underserved areas others are commenting on such as warpriests/warsouls or maybe turning- but that needs more help than just an ED ability. I look at highly build specific t1-t3 abilities not as avoidable but as potential real estate to address others needs/concerns.