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  1. #1
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    Default Dwarf Racial Tree - Changes needed

    The Dwarven racial tree is significantly overcosted on several vectors for the benefits received. The following changes should be implemented to increase the value add of this racial tree.

    Shield Mastery
    Change to 1 AP per rank.

    Child of the Mountain - Changes as follows.
    Tier 1 - Multiselector to add constitution to hit to for one of the Dwarven weapon groups.
    Tier 2 - Gain proficiency with all Shields including Tower Shields.
    Tier 3 - Gain +5% Quality bonus to HP.

    Stand like Stone
    Change to 1 rank ability which costs 2 AP that grants the benefits of the Tier 3 rank.

    Dwarf Fortress
    Change to 1 rank ability which costs 2 AP that grants the benefits of the Tier 3 rank.

    Dwarven Runes
    Tier 1 - Gain Master's Touch as an SLA and +1 to Spell saves
    Tier 2 - Gain Enchant Weapon as an SLA and +1 to Spell saves
    Tier 3 - Gain Enchant Armor as an SLA and +1 to Spell saves

  2. #2
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    Dwarven Runes
    Tier 1 - Gain Master's Touch as an SLA and +1 to Spell saves
    Tier 2 - Gain Enchant Weapon as an SLA and +1 to Spell saves
    Tier 3 - Gain Enchant Armor as an SLA and +1 to Spell saves
    Can't see this working since its 3 different spells.. a multiselector instead would probably be fine though & the rest of the suggestions are all good.

    Can't see the changes having a high priority, but dwarves really need to get some love; personally i'm hoping they get the elf treatment so we can get both hill & mountain subraces & maybe a duregar iconic too
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyDuck81 View Post
    Can't see the changes having a high priority, but dwarves really need to get some love; personally i'm hoping they get the elf treatment so we can get both hill & mountain subraces & maybe a duregar iconic too
    Small point of context.
    The Dwarf Tree is Khorvairian Dwarf of House Kundarak, it is not specifically Mountain or Hill Dwarf as both races may be part of the House Kundarak.

    Similarly the original Elf tree is Khorvairian Elf of either House Phairlian or House Thuranni.
    The Racial Variant is specifically a Wood Elf of Aerenal, Valenar or other locations throughout Eberron.
    Discussion on Drow gets to be complicated in Eberron, and is best left for another topic.


    If SSG were to modify the existing Dwarf tree, it should be a better melding of the three keys aspects, Kundarak Dragonmarked Heir, Hill and Mountain Dwarf.

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  4. #4
    Community Member Nugaot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    Similarly the original Elf tree is Khorvairian Elf of either House Phairlian or House Thuranni.
    The Racial Variant is specifically a Wood Elf of Aerenal, Valenar or other locations throughout Eberron.
    This is false. The basic free to play Elf race has racial enhancements that allow you to select either Aerenal or Valenar heritage. The specific heritage of the Wood Elf racial variant is unclear.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nugaot View Post
    This is false. The basic free to play Elf race has racial enhancements that allow you to select either Aerenal or Valenar heritage. The specific heritage of the Wood Elf racial variant is unclear.
    That is incorrect. Within DDO the actual name of the race is "Elf. Khorvairian", currently. This was not always the case as the original free to play elf was called elf. Even though it was called elf it was Khovairian Elf of either House Phairlian or House Thuranni, thus the access to the Dragonmarks. As a part of the Enhancement tree you may choose your characters heritage of either Aerenal or Valenar, but they are still a Khorvairian Elf.
    Last edited by GoldyGopher; 09-07-2021 at 04:15 PM.

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  6. #6
    Community Member Nugaot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldyGopher View Post
    That is incorrect. Within DDO the actual name of the race is "Elf. Khorvairian", currently. This was not always the case as the original free to play elf was called elf. Even though it was called elf it was Khovairian Elf of either House Phairlian or House Thuranni, thus the access to the Dragonmarks. As a part of the Enhancement tree you may choose your characters heritage of either Aerenal or Valenar, but they are still a Khorvairian Elf.
    If you don’t mind, could you point to which continent Valenar is in on the map?

    The dragonmark of shadow first appeared among the elves of Aerenal. After the mark of death was wiped out in a bitter conflict, the bearers of shadow, who were Aerenal, fled to Khorvaire to establish House Phiarlan. Thuranni was a splinter group that formed during the Last War. Both bear the mark of shadow, and either have heritage in Aerenal or were born there themselves.

    The heritage of DDO’s wood elf remains unclear. Personally, I’d have preferred that they were a non-iconic FR race, but that’s just me.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nugaot View Post
    SNIP
    When you create a new character (or TR/RR) your choice for Elf is Elf. Khovaire and Elf. Wood, or Drow Elf.

    The Khovaire Elf is a term from the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Elves that emigrated to Khorvaire from Aerenal after the War of the Mark are called Khorvaire Elfs, Page 14. It is used in a few other spots in the source books. They are also called "civilized elves" in some spots. These elves banded together to form House Phairlan, the name pays homage to early elf troubadours, scouts, and bards prior to the exodus from Xen'drik to Aerenal, to whom some/many members of House Phairlan claim ancestry.

    The Valaes Tairn, one of the three tribes of the Tairnadal elves have called Valanar home since the end of the Last War. Even though Valenar is on Khorvaire they do not generally consider themselves Khorvairian. A few Valaes Tairn still reside on the plains of northern Aerenal, along with the other two Tairnadal tribes, the Silaes Tairn and the Draelus Tairn. Members of both tribes would make interesting characters in DDO.

    In pen and paper a Khorvarian Elf is not just the Elf Race but could be any of the sub-races; Gray, High, Wild or Wood Elf. You could even make an argument for a half-elf or drow. I am not sure I could make an case to use an aquatic elf, but I am sure some has. As Keith Baker has said numerous times, Eberron is not a place of absolutes. To paraphrase an article he wrote; "Nations, Tribes and other collections of people are not racial homogenous in Eberron. It is the shared heritage and experiences that binds them together."

    Even the Forgotten Realms is becoming less stringent on the absolutes placed on some/many of the non-human races.

    The actual mistake is in the Elf tree, Valenar Heritage should have be called Tairnadal Heritage.

    The Mark of Shadow occasionally manifests on Aerenal Elves. The Elves for whom this Dragonmark appears are recruited for the Cairdal Blades.


    As this Topic is about the Dwarven Racial Tree, modification to which I have often championed I would like to add some of my thoughts.

    When the Aasimar Race was introduced to the Players' Council I suggested a similar approach could be adapted to the existing races. in the case of Dwarf - Racial Feat; Deep (+2 Con), Hill (+2 Wis), Mountain (+2 Str)

    Core 1 - Multi Selector - Deep (+2 max Armor Max Dex Bonus) Hill (+1 HP per Character Level), Mountain (+1 AC per 3 Character Level in Light or Medium Armor)
    Core 2 - Multi Selector - Deep (+1 Con), Hill (+1 Wis), Mountain (+1 Str)
    Core 3 - See Core 1
    Core 4 - See Core 2
    Core 5 - See Core 1

    Tier 1 - Multi Selector - Dwarven Weapons Training - +1 to Attack and Damage with Axes, Hammers, or Picks (+5% Armor Piercing)
    Tier 1 - Dwarven Armor Mastery - +1/+3/+5 AC and Max Dex Bonus
    Tier 2 - Multi Selector - Dwarven Weapons Training - +2 to Attack and +1 to Damage to Axes, Hammers, or Picks (+5% Armor Piercing)
    Tier 3 - Multi Selector - Dwarven Weapons Training - +2 to Attack and +2 to Damage to Axes, Hammers, or Picks (+5% Armor Piercing)
    Tier 3 - Multi Selector - Dwarven Weapons Familiarity - Axe, Hammer, Pick - Use your Con to Hit with Weapon Choice
    Tier 4 - Dwarven Fortress - While wearing Light, Medium, or Heavy Armor and have a shield equipped your Armor contributes +5%/+10%/+20% AC
    Tier 3 - Multi Selector - Dwarven Weapons Training - +2 to Attack and +2 to Damage to Axes, Hammers, or Picks (+10% Armor Piercing)
    Tier 4 - Multi Selector (separate from Dwarven Weapons Training) Throw your Weight Around - Axe, Hammer, Pick - Use your Con to Damage with Weapons Choice.


    I think several of the of the ranked abilities (Iron Stomach, Stout..) either need better bonuses or to be set as a single rank 2AP with the third rank score.

    Overall I think my approach would have opened up a wide number of builds and potentially could have created a niche for Picks.

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  8. #8
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    I'd also like to see Greataxe added as a favored weapon alongside Dwarf Axe. Doesnt need the extra strikethrough, just purely for the specific purpose of being able to build a Dwarven Paladin with Greataxes

  9. #9
    Community Member SoVeryBelgian's Avatar
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    The AP Waste in the Dwarf Racial Tree is very noticeable, and even with 10+ Racial AP can be kinda annoying to spend in.


    I agree that it needs a rework of some kind.
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