Do spell components have a purpose in todays DDO

[Antheal]

Replace all spell components with Omnispell Dust and have it available for in-game platinum.

[dunklezhan]

Replace all spell components with Omnispell Dust and have it available for in-game platinum.

This is the obvious solution, because it meets (in theory, not like I know the fine print) the WOTC contractual requirement to have components. Clearly they got an exception of some kind for introducing these to the game.

However if components are indeed such a deal breaker for WOTC then i suspect that exception was on the basis that they must be store & rare drop only, and not available for in game currency.

However however in later editions of DnD, things have been changed so you just have a components pouch and its assumed you keep it topped it up, and only particularly powerful of game breaking spells required named components. At the end of the day, at the core, spell components serve the same function as DDO's consumable Thieves Tools for Rogues but currently take up 10x the space.

For me, the simplest solution is indeed just to make omnispell dust something you can buy and do away with the rest. However that nukes SSGs entire revenue stream on omnispell dust, and is furthermore boring (I just mean it could be more fun. Not that you have had a boring idea as such!).

So what I would suggest is something like:

1. Give characters a component slot, like an additional quiver.
2. Have an item called a component pouch. This item can hold x stacks of rare components, stack size y. X and Y vary depending on the quality of the component pouch.
3. Change the requirement for components for all non special spells that currently require them to 'component pouch equipped'.
4. Have Jeets provide, or just issue at chargen, a Simple Spell Component Pouch for classes that need them. This cannot hold any rare components, but the tooltip can say "this simple spell components pouch must be equipped in order to cast many spells. Other spell component pouches exist which can hold rare spell components for more powerful spells" or something like that

Extrapolate from there. Like quivers, these could potentially have magic effects on them. Maybe raid loot: I would suggest 'counts as [rare component, e.g. black onyx]' is the obvious kind of effect to have on them, but also casting time reductions, or other stuff, I guess too. Pouches without magical effects but capable of holding more rare components at once could be sold in the store, making them a convenience item for storage if you lean on a lot of rare spells (or just want to build up a store of rare components for future lives to more easily stash in the bank), rather than a "buy power" item.

This would seem to me to:
1. meet requirement from the mothergame for balance-limiting rare components on certain spells.
2. meet the requirement from the mother game for active interaction by the player and character with spell components to maintain that whole 'tools are required for most magic' feel, without it becoming a needless chore, something even the pnp game recognises as necessary.
3. provide room for a system to grow without causing bank, cache or inventory bloat, and give the devs and players more loot options to play with
4. at least some level of revenue offset for SSG in the store since omnispell dust wouldn't be a thing
5. preservation of omnispell stone revenue stream.

I have no idea how easy that would be to implement of course.

Assuming it is, I would then look at some more changes:
1. Eschew components/equivalent enhancements: this should now apply to rare components instead. Possibly it should have some negative effect on casting time. You might still go after a named component pouch because of other benefits. Choices choices.
2. Just make Thieves Tools reusable named items that must be equipped, for the love of khyber. They can't possibly be *that* much of a plat sink as they are now.
3. *sobs* I know it's hard, I know. I *know* but please. I need a potion belt and a scroll bag and to be able to drag things from there to a hotbar. Need it.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Leaving out spell components is drgfinitively on the road of "dumbing down" that game for me. In the end, it will be a fireball-shooter.

Dumbing down games has already led to that infamous verdict of "unplayable" for the old Ultima games. Everything has to be streamlined, streamlined, more streamlined , and even more streamlined.

It's the same as with cars : Todays' cars all look the same. Old Timer cars, however, each have their own, distinct style ...




My very personal belief is, that it is good to force people to take care of little details - because that enables people to take a look at little details in Real Life as well. And It's always "little detauls" which are so often the determining factor ... Like with doing the tax computation. Or like with "there's a red blinking lamp in my car". "What does it say ?" "I don't know." ... Much later : "Didn't you check whether your car's bettery was healthy ?" "What battery ... ?" (Kind of happened with my father when he was very young, as we talked about him yesterday, when his birthday would have been.)

[Valerianus]

everytime a spell is cast, inventory is checked, worked upon, and since componentes have weight, carry load adjusted. what a bunch of useless operations. like the now-removed backpack damage, bad ideas from the start. ammo too btw, bad idea.

first off, spell components should have never had weight in the first place. at least remove that, it makes no sense.

onward, ssg, if you don't want to get rid of them cause tech\licence issues, just sell us, yeah sell us make us pay it we'll buy it, a spell component bag, a 1-slot inventory item to replace every possible common and rare component for any spell for any class. just my point of view here, i never buy omnispell stuff, i will never buy omnispell stuff, but i would buy such an item if it enables me to have it in my cache tr after tr and never again care about spell components with any class and any build. it's anyway PnP stuff, component pouch, tunics with a lotta pockets, magic bags and so on.

[OfElectricMen]

The rule is simple: does it add any fun to the game? if the answer is no they should get rid of it ASAP in the quality of life changes.

The rule is simple. However, you are not the arbiter of whether or not it adds any fun to the game. Personally, I like having spell components in the game. I've had some fun times when I've run out of something and had to deal with an encounter in a different way. The only reason I would support (an I do) getting rid of them is because something like a bag that holds them doesn't seem to be something the devs can implement (much like scroll cases), and there's no good reason for them to take as much inventory space as they do.

[OfElectricMen]

ammo too btw, bad idea.

No, it's not.

[Valerianus]

No, it's not.

why is having a stack that must be checked before every attack and an inventory stack adjusted after every attack and weight and carry load adjusted accordingly a good idea? why is the idea of "need no ammo to shoot, your bow just shoots by itself" bad? or at least, an item called "arrows", got by in game vendor instead of a 100 arrows stack, that's basically a 100% returning arrow (with no weight) to mimic infinite ammo, why is it bad?

i'm genuinely curious here, asking opinions.

[gravisrs]

Components may stay but only if they add a laughing DM voice: "You're trying to cast a fireball, do you have spell component? No? hahahaha!"

[Firepants]

Leaving out spell components is drgfinitively on the road of "dumbing down" that game for me. In the end, it will be a fireball-shooter.

Dumbing down games has already led to that infamous verdict of "unplayable" for the old Ultima games. Everything has to be streamlined, streamlined, more streamlined , and even more streamlined.

It's the same as with cars : Todays' cars all look the same. Old Timer cars, however, each have their own, distinct style ...

My very personal belief is, that it is good to force people to take care of little details - because that enables people to take a look at little details in Real Life as well. And It's always "little detauls" which are so often the determining factor ... Like with doing the tax computation. Or like with "there's a red blinking lamp in my car". "What does it say ?" "I don't know." ... Much later : "Didn't you check whether your car's bettery was healthy ?" "What battery ... ?" (Kind of happened with my father when he was <em>very</em> young, as we talked about him yesterday, when his birthday would have been.)

I can appreciate where you're coming from but in this particular case I cannot disagree more.

First, having separate families of components by class and by spell level is overkill for an action RPG. In PnP (on the very rare occasion that a DM even cared for tracking standard components) they really only served as a caster money sink primarily, with any strategic considerations entirely situational (casting spells after being stripped and imprisoned for example) and with few exceptions only ever because of the DMs decision to apply that rule. Again, something I've only ever encountered a handful of times in my 30+ years of playing PnP. Being a video game, presumably with a primary mission of delivering an already abstracted version of rules meant for a tabletop, turn-based, social experience, abstracting out a mechanic that doesn't really add anything to the style of play DDO presents would in no way degrade the experience. Its inclusion only manages to create a needless occasional chore for players in the best case, and an inventory space problem or party hardship due to a caster type being unable to perform adequately mid-quest under normal conditions. There's just zero benefit here and only drawbacks.

However, there should be some sort of trade-off for spellcasting in lieu of components. I really like some of the previously mentioned ideas, especially the idea of introducing spell focuses and holy symbols in their stead and having appropriate caster classes require the player run with their focus or symbol in an appropriate equipment slot like the trinket, necklace, offhand, certain main hand equips (maybe something that can show up on qstaves or scepters like the implement property), craftable augments, anything within reason. Require divines use a symbol appropriate to their deity/alignment, arcane casters restricted along appropriate lines for the class, like wizard foci sorted by spell school, sorc foci by element, warlock by patron, etc.

The component pouch also works and is in line with how the D&D rules work now. I'd rather see it as an alternate equip in the quiver slot and again, make named ones with extra effects, include em as Cannith craftable (this goes for the focus/symbol too - ideally as a property that can be added to appropriate gear blanks during crafting). Require one or the other (pouch or focus/symbol) be equipped and of an appropriate "level" (another potential gating mechanism, i.e., focus 1 costs 100pp, min level 1, max spell level 2) OR eschew materials feat/enhancement effect OR have the listed component/omnispell dust in your inventory.

Now, instead of being saddled with giving up inventory space and extra bookkeeping every caster has a few options available which all have potential gameplay and character build dimensions that can be leveraged by the game designers as elements in new content as well as the players, who'll need to evaluate gear slot trade-offs and such. Arcane Archers, for example, would likely not swap their quiver for a component pouch and tend towards using a focus, but maybe there's a nice named quiver out there that's also a focus worth grinding for. Introducing foci/pouches/symbols opens up a whole new set of opportunities. Components as they are now only detract from the game experience.