Druid Bear Nerfs

[Kielbasa]

So Great Maul and Shred both got their dc calculations nerfed recently why was this done and can some one show me where in what patch notes this was listed? Please stop making us have to QA the game for you devs! Undocumented changes are annoying. And they still don't list the proper DCs when put on the hot bar to add insult to injury.

[fatherpirate]

When is the last time SSG gave Druids some love?
...
Since they were released?
...


yea.

[SpartanKiller13]

When is the last time SSG gave Druids some love?
...
Since they were released?
...


yea.

Some recent stuff (given Druid is 2012 or so):

April 2021: Perfect Natural Fighting
March 2021: Aspect of the Wild Hunt
April 2018: Nature's Protector Tree, enhancement passes for NW/SH

------

Not saying Druid's getting lots of love, but it's not ignored either lol.

[liston33]

Could your dc's be lower because of the stat lowering on gear? and not because of the abilities themselves?

[fatherpirate]

I can tell you why Druid is mainly ignored.

They are useless in Reaper level raids.
Being a summoning class, and summons being instant killed in Reaper level raids
means that the druid will be a healer that is not as good as a cleric, or a tank that is not as good
as any other tank.

Maybe they can be a buff bot.

Needless to say, they really have no place in SSG plans for end game.

That is why I exclusively play heroic and avoid reapers, I love playing druids
but endgame content hates them.

For Druid to be viable in Reapers, their pets have to survive fights
with champions and reapers, and they do not.
So far SSG has had no interest making the druid competitive.

That is fine by me because I don't play Reapers.

[ShifterThePirate]

I can tell you why Druid is mainly ignored.

They are useless in Reaper level raids.
Being a summoning class, and summons being instant killed in Reaper level raids
means that the druid will be a healer that is not as good as a cleric, or a tank that is not as good
as any other tank.

Maybe they can be a buff bot.

Needless to say, they really have no place in SSG plans for end game.

That is why I exclusively play heroic and avoid reapers, I love playing druids
but endgame content hates them.

For Druid to be viable in Reapers, their pets have to survive fights
with champions and reapers, and they do not.
So far SSG has had no interest making the druid competitive.

That is fine by me because I don't play Reapers.

What a bunch of nonsense... Pets is not what is making Druid viable. Wolf build and Bearbarian are top tier DPS. A Wisdom build can even bring Mass Frog.
The class isn't being touched a.t.m. because it's in a very good state now as it is. They even had an overhaul pretty recently. And last patch they got Protection from Elements Mass added to their level 7 spells.
The only 'weak' Druid is caster Druid because it's lacking nuke spells and instakills compared to other casters.

[kpak01]

April 2018: Nature's Protector Tree, enhancement passes for NW/SH

------

Not saying Druid's getting lots of love, but it's not ignored either lol.

What they did to SH wasn't love, it was hate. I'd rather it have been ignored. There's a good reasons my caster Druid has most of their points in a universal tree: SH is awful.

[kpak01]

They are useless in Reaper level raids.
...
means that the druid will be a healer that is not as good as a cleric

I have 2 end-game Druids that are useful in R10s and raids. One is a healer build, because Druids have the best group-healing in the game, Clerics don't even come close. (FvS is better than Cleric for a healer too, but healing wall still can't quite catch Mass Regen.)

So, you don't know what you're talking about. Of course, you admitted that yourself already: you said you only play Heroic non-Reaper, so it's not surprising you are clueless about endgame Reapers and raids.

[fatherpirate]

so your saying that this spell (best druid group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate,_Mass

is more powerful than this spell (best cleric/FS group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Heal,_Mass

but it is not.
Even the wiki admits that the spell mass heal is the most powerful heal in the game and druids don't have it.

Your entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

You can tweak out a druid to be a good group healer but it will never be as good as an equally
tweaked out cleric or FS. The druids do not have the top group healing spell AND the one druid healing tree is not
the strongest healing tree either.

I love druids, you like druids too, but when it comes to group healing, druids are 3rd place.
Druids also do not tank as well as Fighters and
they do not range DPS well.

[rabidfox]

so your saying that this spell (best druid group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate,_Mass

is more powerful than this spell (best cleric/FS group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Heal,_Mass

but it is not.
Even the wiki admits that the spell mass heal is the most powerful heal in the game and druids don't have it.

Your entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Mass heal is horrible. The cast time is so slow you might as well be prepared to to pick up the soul stones of the entire party before the spell goes off. I take it on my FvS (because I've got that 3rd slot available) but I don't even touch it outside of 1 raid.

[Vorachtin]

Edit - forget it, not posting here on a forum over moderated to death.

[Valerianus]

so your saying that this spell (best druid group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate,_Mass

is more powerful than this spell (best cleric/FS group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Heal,_Mass

but it is not.
Even the wiki admits that the spell mass heal is the most powerful heal in the game and druids don't have it.

Your entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

You can tweak out a druid to be a good group healer but it will never be as good as an equally
tweaked out cleric or FS. The druids do not have the top group healing spell AND the one druid healing tree is not
the strongest healing tree either.

I love druids, you like druids too, but when it comes to group healing, druids are 3rd place.
Druids also do not tank as well as Fighters and
they do not range DPS well.

afaik last time that mass heal was relevant we were running elite shroud and level cap was 20.

[SpartanKiller13]

so your saying that this spell (best druid group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate,_Mass

is more powerful than this spell (best cleric/FS group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Heal,_Mass

but it is not.
Even the wiki admits that the spell mass heal is the most powerful heal in the game and druids don't have it.

Mass Regen is IMO far better than Mass Heal. I honestly feel like you must have not encountered them to have that viewpoint. Have you run in any epic raids before?

Mass Heal has a hilariously long casting time, which is nearly always bad. It's also one big hit that's generally far overkill for AoE healing (like healing 8000 doesn't matter if your buddy has 1600 HP) and the long cast time makes it bad for healing tanks even when you want a big heal - because you want it right now, not 2s from now.

Mass Regen also is a HoT, which is generally more effective in a group environment. You can throw it before allies are taking damage, and you can heal an ally now while also healing an ally who takes damage 5s from now. It's also stackable, allowing for truly insane sustain over a long period of time It also counters DoT effects (by providing consistent healing) and cures status effects for a longer period.

[Chai]

so your saying that this spell (best druid group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Regenerate,_Mass

is more powerful than this spell (best cleric/FS group heal)
https://ddowiki.com/page/Heal,_Mass

Yes.

Part of it (but not the only reason) is the casting animation, in a game where spike damage is used as "challenge" when difficulty settings are ramped up, regens cast like a regular spell, not the long drawn out "summoning" animation mass heal uses.

Another item is it stacks duration - something most people don't use, but the optimizers find quite valuable.

Thirdly, regen gets 100% spell power while heals only get 50% from pos.

[AbyssalMage]

afaik last time that mass heal was relevant we were running elite shroud and level cap was 20.

Haha, I remember when CitW was the end game raid and Cleric's who had returned to the game were told repeatedly to quit using Mass Heal.

I have to agree with the others. Mass Heal has NOT been a relevant spell in DDO since the introduction of MotU. Some clerics will use it if the Tank/group is over geared for the raid but generally speaking Healers are throwing out other spells with much quicker animation/casting times.

[Vish]

You can all retire now

Alchy s are obviously the best healers

They have aoe heal, and it rocks

[unbongwah]

So Great Maul and Shred both got their dc calculations nerfed recently why was this done and can some one show me where in what patch notes this was listed?

Could your dc's be lower because of the stat lowering on gear? and not because of the abilities themselves?

Yeah the only recent change I could find is: "Nature Protector's third Core no longer erroneously grants the spell Great Maul, and it is now correctly granted in the 4th Core ability."

[J-mann]

What a bunch of nonsense... Pets is not what is making Druid viable. Wolf build and Bearbarian are top tier DPS. A Wisdom build can even bring Mass Frog.
The class isn't being touched a.t.m. because it's in a very good state now as it is. They even had an overhaul pretty recently. And last patch they got Protection from Elements Mass added to their level 7 spells.
The only 'weak' Druid is caster Druid because it's lacking nuke spells and instakills compared to other casters.

To be fair its not really the druid trees that make them outstanding. They are but a small supplement and I would never t5 them for a dps build, barb is far better and even their trees have a lot of fluf to get the actually good stuff.

[Nammmmmmm]

I can tell you why Druid is mainly ignored.

They are useless in Reaper level raids.
Being a summoning class, and summons being instant killed in Reaper level raids
means that the druid will be a healer that is not as good as a cleric, or a tank that is not as good
as any other tank.

Maybe they can be a buff bot.

Needless to say, they really have no place in SSG plans for end game.

That is why I exclusively play heroic and avoid reapers, I love playing druids
but endgame content hates them.

For Druid to be viable in Reapers, their pets have to survive fights
with champions and reapers, and they do not.
So far SSG has had no interest making the druid competitive.

That is fine by me because I don't play Reapers.

As healers they have the best potential with HoTs, and no you dont need pets to be viable to be a viable endgame r10 druid xD you must have LOADS of experience running reaper at endgame content

But I actually do and know multiple people that can carry r10 groups.

[PsychoBlonde]

I didn't notice Druid tactics DC's getting nerfed. They have NEVER calculated correctly in the display so knowing what they actually ARE is basically impossible. You pretty much have to go use them on mobs and take off and put on gear until you get an approximate range going. Either that or actually know every bonus you're getting from everywhere (difficult--even the DC bonus calculations on the + tab are pretty much useless).

Personally, I run a druid bear tank--not because it's the optimal tank, but I just like how it plays, and I do just fine in R10 quests. I don't really care about doing Legendary raids on Reaper, so I usually don't bother with that, but R10 quests are perfectly fine for me.