The changes you're proposing have been implemented in another game. The results?

[Certon]

Let's talk about the upcoming nerfs to DDO to deal with "power creep" in regards to it in a game known as Path of Exile.

PoE implemented massive changes to the game to attempt to "slow down" gameplay and return the game to what it once was--

Developer nostalgia is the #1 killer of games.

After implementing similar changes to their game, they saw an immediate 35% loss to their subscriber base, and after just under a week, that total has plummeted to 48%

Your changes are unpopular, and I wouldn't be surprised if you suffered the same fate. Learn from their mistakes.

[Tyrande]

48% less lag, isn't that what we wanted?

Everyone is getting the nerfs, monsters, raid bosses, my characters, the guildie's characters, raid group team members, everyone. Not just your characters.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I thought PoE was Pillars of Eternity ?

Anyway, Path of Exile isn't a game I would want to play. Far too much action in it, or rather : Action only. At least according to the videos. It doesn't seem to have any traps which can be disarmed.

Quoting from their web site :

Wraeclast is a dark, brutal continent. Scarred by mysterious catastrophes of the past and inhabited by creatures of nightmare, the very environment challenges exiles who dare explore it.

We're sick of the recent trend towards bright, cartoony RPGs. The art style we chose for Path of Exile is dark, gritty and realistic. Wraeclast is terrifying, and we've tried hard to do it justice.

Well, nice, I'm sick of dark, brutal, gritty games. Money saved !

DDO is in my opinion the wrong game for this player type. It is too much unbrutal, undark, ungritty, compared to that game.
Plus, DDO is in its core turn based, not an Action-RPG.

So, in my opinion, comparing Path of Exile with DDO is like comparing apples with peas.

[Certon]

I thought PoE was Pillars of Eternity ?

Anyway, Path of Exile isn't a game I would want to play. Far too much action in it, or rather : Action only. At least according to the videos. It doesn't seem to have any traps which can be disarmed.

Quoting from their web site :



Well, nice, I'm sick of dark, brutal, gritty games. Money saved !

DDO is in my opinion the wrong game for this player type. It is too much unbrutal, undark, ungritty, compared to that game.
Plus, DDO is in its core turn based, not an Action-RPG.

So, in my opinion, comparing Path of Exile with DDO is like comparing apples with peas.

I hope you are right. I don't think this game could survive that kind of drop.

[Certon]

48% less lag, isn't that what we wanted?

Everyone is getting the nerfs, monsters, raid bosses, my characters, the guildie's characters, raid group team members, everyone. Not just your characters.

lol. I hope it ends up as flowery as you are painting it. That wouldn't be so bad.

[Stravix]

lol. I hope it ends up as flowery as you are painting it. That wouldn't be so bad.

Also, as someone who is actually currently playing PoE, the changes they made were needed changes, and good for the game, just like the DDO ones.

[rabidfox]

Having played u50 lam 1, monster stats were too strong relative to players. Lam 2, was just about right with needing some minor tweaks for casters and tanking/survival stuff. By the time u50 hits live, we should be performing relatively the same as live now at endgame after the stat squish. It may take another patch or two to catch any outlier stuff that wasn't adjusted well enough but overall from play testing/dev feedback it should be good, it's just a stat squish not a nerf.

[blarhblarhblarh]

Let's talk about the upcoming nerfs to DDO to deal with "power creep"

Developer nostalgia is the #1 killer of games.

In DDO they have the D&D 3.5 that could and should be used as a guide everytime SSG and the players disagree on something since it´s Dungeons and Dragons online. This should be the golden rule and by doing so they would never upset players.

DDO had a lot of players diasporas. One was when F2P came out and everyone told what would happen and it did: green steel become mandatory, grind and past lifes become mandatory, saw players with 3 vip accounts full of toons leave the game. But then it was a bet. They could bet because they had a source of incoming new players.

Now DDO don´t have it and may have the last chance to grab players when the next DnD movies come out. But it will not survive if the company don´t listen to the players. People are already leaving, in my guild 8 habitual players already left and it just took update 50and 51 announcment.

[Certon]

Also, as someone who is actually currently playing PoE, the changes they made were needed changes, and good for the game, just like the DDO ones.

How about now? PoE still rolling with those changes? They are DYING right now. The trade market is all but dead and the playerbase is abysmal. "Needed changes" doesn't equal fun, and games are meant to be fun. Read these forums. DDO is doing the EXACT SAME THING. Except DDOs is WORSE. They are nerfing content people PAID for.

If you buy a cadillac but at some point they change it for a Prius, sure it's still a car, but it isn't what you bought.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

How about now? PoE still rolling with those changes? They are DYING right now. The trade market is all but dead and the playerbase is abysmal. "Needed changes" doesn't equal fun, and games are meant to be fun. Read these forums. DDO is doing the EXACT SAME THING. Except DDOs is WORSE. They are nerfing content people PAID for.

If you buy a cadillac but at some point they change it for a Prius, sure it's still a car, but it isn't what you bought.

This is absurdly hyperbolic.

DYING. DOOM.

Path of Exile is fine. I have played (and spent) more this league than in Ultimatum. Delve league (one of the best) also had a player dip. Sometimes people are just fatigued from the game and they take a break before the next big content patch.

Expedition did not see an endgame expansion---it is a smaller release that still has a ton of fun content in the form of logbooks.

The balance changes in POE expedition were rough at first but they are now in a good state IMO.

[Xezom]

This is absurdly hyperbolic.

DYING. DOOM.

Path of Exile is fine. I have played (and spent) more this league than in Ultimatum. Delve league (one of the best) also had a player dip. Sometimes people are just fatigued from the game and they take a break before the next big content patch.

Expedition did not see an endgame expansion---it is a smaller release that still has a ton of fun content in the form of logbooks.

The balance changes in POE expedition were rough at first but they are now in a good state IMO.

I'm going to echo this one. I've played PoE since open beta and while yes the sweeping nerfs were unpopular to what the PoE community has tagged as the "reddit crybots" and vets alike, those who stuck around post nerfs and actually tried out the content know that PoE is far from dying. As Sam-u-r-eye said once the dust settled, the game is doing fine and is back to being challenging for more than just the odd ball builds. Content that is supposed to be challenging feels like it's actually a challenge again and the time going into programing interesting fights and content actually gets used rather than things simply melting in half a second.

Personally, the sweeping nerfs in DDO have landed even better than they did in PoE. If you played the endgame content in DDO with the top gear before the pass, and play the same content with the same gear on the same difficulty, it feels about the same (if not easier IMO). I tried the U50 update on lam and it felt fine, tried the u51 early preview and I can say that I'm hella stoked for the ED pass to breath much needed life into the ED system.

I think in both cases its more of a case of loss aversion especially here in DDO. There were major changes to the toughness of monsters and difficulty of the content, but what gets focused on? The stat losses, regardless of how they compare to the changes that buff played efficiency against monsters via save reductions, HP reduction, skill check requirement reductions, etc.

I'm going to have to disagree with the OP and say that dev nostalgia isn't the #1 killer of a game. The true #1 killer is player overreaction.

[Certon]

This is absurdly hyperbolic.

DYING. DOOM.

Path of Exile is fine. I have played (and spent) more this league than in Ultimatum. Delve league (one of the best) also had a player dip. Sometimes people are just fatigued from the game and they take a break before the next big content patch.

Expedition did not see an endgame expansion---it is a smaller release that still has a ton of fun content in the form of logbooks.

The balance changes in POE expedition were rough at first but they are now in a good state IMO.

Hyperbole? PoE had its largest percentage drop it has ever suffered in its history and NO BOUNCE BACK. People on YouTube--longtime streamers that aren't ZiggyD (who is in the pocket of GGG) are going crazy over the nerfs. People are upset and they want their old game back. This mentality will only go away if they change the game back or the players who are unhappy decide to never return. I posit the same will happen in DDO after u51 is live.

[Certon]

I'm going to echo this one. I've played PoE since open beta and while yes the sweeping nerfs were unpopular to what the PoE community has tagged as the "reddit crybots" and vets alike, those who stuck around post nerfs and actually tried out the content know that PoE is far from dying. As Sam-u-r-eye said once the dust settled, the game is doing fine and is back to being challenging for more than just the odd ball builds. Content that is supposed to be challenging feels like it's actually a challenge again and the time going into programing interesting fights and content actually gets used rather than things simply melting in half a second.

Personally, the sweeping nerfs in DDO have landed even better than they did in PoE. If you played the endgame content in DDO with the top gear before the pass, and play the same content with the same gear on the same difficulty, it feels about the same (if not easier IMO). I tried the U50 update on lam and it felt fine, tried the u51 early preview and I can say that I'm hella stoked for the ED pass to breath much needed life into the ED system.

I think in both cases its more of a case of loss aversion especially here in DDO. There were major changes to the toughness of monsters and difficulty of the content, but what gets focused on? The stat losses, regardless of how they compare to the changes that buff played efficiency against monsters via save reductions, HP reduction, skill check requirement reductions, etc.

I'm going to have to disagree with the OP and say that dev nostalgia isn't the #1 killer of a game. The true #1 killer is player overreaction.

Player (over)reaction of COURSE is the #1 killer for real, just like oxygen deprivation kills just about everyone who dies in the world that isn't dismembered or blown into bits.