Elf Ranger synergy: An examination of old and new.

[donblas]

Feats
Favored enemy undead, construct,evil outsiders in that order
.

For a modest investment of APs, 2 in fact, you can get FE Undead from the Vistani tree, allowing you to take a different one as a feat and buffing all of them.
And a 6-point dive into horizon walker will gain you evil outsider, allowing yet another feat choice and buffing all 6 choices. Your dex-based version may well want to spend 13 in this tree anyway for "No Step Missed"

And for laughs you can spend 2 APs in falconry for FE animals.

Giving (with the 4 FEs from 18 Ranger, and three more from 10APs) seven types of enemy you get +14 against. No small buff.

Of course, it may be that the APs on your builds may be too tight to do this, but thought I'd mention it.

[spifflove]

For a modest investment of APs, 2 in fact, you can get FE Undead from the Vistani tree, allowing you to take a different one as a feat and buffing all of them.
And a 6-point dive into horizon walker will gain you evil outsider, allowing yet another feat choice and buffing all 6 choices. Your dex-based version may well want to spend 13 in this tree anyway for "No Step Missed"

And for laughs you can spend 2 APs in falconry for FE animals.

Giving (with the 4 FEs from 18 Ranger, and three more from 10APs) seven types of enemy you get +14 against. No small buff.

Of course, it may be that the APs on your builds may be too tight to do this, but thought I'd mention it.

These are some very good points indeed! That is a HUGE buff against a lot of enemies! Useful info for ranger players of all types.

I would like my final Ranger to be 40% ranged as ranged is part of the class but that would take a really good builder to pull that off. I am unfortunately time constrained as a casual minnow addicted to permadeath =,)

[Mindos]

A groupie was amazed to note that I was centered and said he learned something new. Ac is good, still testing.

what armor are you wearing?

[spifflove]

what armor are you wearing?

Starting rags. Really though nice thing about robes is you can insta swap. Lots of nice set pieces nowadays with good fort.

[C-Dog]

First the Retribution Ranger (the original max dps glass canon to be recorded)
...
6) knights training
...

Since Knight's Training was introduced in a U41 patch (Feb '19), I have to wonder what your operating definition of "original" is.

Compare this 2013 version, which was sort of a forum-agreed benchmark and that I consider far more "original*", in a more traditional sense of the term, and still does just fine afaict.

(* at least as far as post-U19 goes, when the current Enhancement trees were introduced. If there were (the equivalent of) Elven Tempest Trapmonkeys pre-19, they'd be tough to compare/contrast to any current models.)

[darkniteyogi]

The elf dragonmark is great for first life characters. You get 50% concealment which works with Extend (That's 20 minutes of displacement per rest), and you also got 10% incorporeality (15 minutes per rest).

My unpopular opinion, Dodge, mobility, and shot on the run are overrated.
With the same feat choices, I prefer Extend (for dragonmark), Quicken, Maximize, for healing.

[C-Dog]

Maximize, for healing.

This.

If you're not going to be a full-time healer, and so only worry about emergency "burst" healing, Maximize gives you the best result. Costs more than Empower Healing, and worth every spell point.

[spifflove]

Since Knight's Training was introduced in a U41 patch (Feb '19), I have to wonder what your operating definition of "original" is.

Original meaning 2007. I did not mean to imply Knight’s Training was part of the original build. Back then it was required to take dodge, mobility, and spring attack to unlock the proto tempest tree. It makes sense to include Knight’s Training in the current discussion. I did not notice the feat mentioned in the discussions in your link (although khopeshes were).

[spifflove]

This.

If you're not going to be a full-time healer, and so only worry about emergency "burst" healing, Maximize gives you the best result. Costs more than Empower Healing, and worth every spell point.

I see your point but what is your view on this (espoused by others on this forum):

Rejuvenation Cocoon: Active (12 SP activation) (12 sec cooldown) (Empower Heal, Quicken, Enlarge) (SR: no) Protect target ally with a shield of [90/120/150] temporary HP for 9 seconds. Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield persists.

[C-Dog]

Original meaning 2007... Back then it was required to take dodge, mobility, and spring attack to unlock the proto tempest tree.

Exactly, then we go back to an entirely different approach to Enhancements, and it's apples and oranges. Which is why I posted that build, which was among the first post-current-Enhancement.

I did not notice the feat mentioned in the discussions in your link (although khopeshes were).

KT is relatively modern, didn't exist until Feb '19.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_41_P...se_Notes#Feats

Afaiu, KT made several weapons the (close?) equiv of Khopeshes, so simply a matter of color preference (and/or whatever you have in inventory).

[spifflove]

Exactly,

KT is relatively modern, didn't exist until Feb '19.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_41_P...se_Notes#Feats

Afaiu, KT made several weapons the (close?) equiv of Khopeshes, so simply a matter of color preference (and/or whatever you have in inventory).

So the meta went from puncturing rapiers to strength longswords to exploiters to dex scimitars and now back to strength longswords only to be eclipsed by thousand point Horizon Walker bow shots.

Testing the hardcore ranger in hardcore league to level seven was a snoozfest (after one misadventure where I made it a rule to only play tired with lowbies). Basically you just keep blood tribute up at all times and follow the lead aggro magnet (sometimes just the bloody footprints). Usually mobs just melt away as I swing at them (killed by rampaging bards) and I use my bow as I sometimes struggled to keep up with the zerg. I did manage to wet my longswords in Chronoscope and actually had to shrine to restore con points. Damage to was good but no longer meta even with keen longswords and Knight’s Training.

The Sexy Dexy build gave similar damage but razor thin hit points. Other league mates seemed to be aware of this and were very good at looking after me and again most mobs melted away before I could close. I targeted casters in big rooms but for the most part I was just along for the ride. A glaring weakness of the build was getting hit by a ray of enfeeblement and getting encumbered and taken out of wind stance. Worse still I was helpless. On the plus side moving through traps was no problem and so far no failed saves. Ac is much better and wind stance increases attack speed.

I’m starting to contribute a little as I ding 8. Not many other rangers around. Wouldn’t it be nice if I had a big tanky pet bear to act as an aggro magnet?

At level 8 the Hardcore Ranger got its first real test: I found myself in Delera’s part one surrounded and trapped by spectral skeletons. I had the opportunity to run without aggro but remembered my guildies from 10 years before desperately trying to heal me as I panicked and we wiped. I charged in borderland longswords a blazing. True to my gut instinct my two cleric friends were trapped and shield blocking (others were piking due to traps).
Being lost in Tangleroot surrounded before I did not panic. I used nearly all my blood tribute and we all lived to fight another day.

[spifflove]

Getting lost in Threnal I happened upon Coyle just as he was committing suicide. I solo’d the end boss and saved Coyle further proving the teeth of the build.

By level 10 groups were getting smaller, occasionally they were weak enough where the dps ranger would shine but most groups were quite Uber. I got lost as a late arrival to Chronoscope and managed to solo the mobs in front of the bank. Finally, after jumping over a trap to get at the action beyond I landed on a slope. Grease appeared under my feet and a spear wall was waiting. Even a wf barbarian would not have survived. (And it would have been much wiser to break out a bow)

Since the end of the HC ranger occurred because of user error and not the fault of the build I consider it a successful test. Overall I found it slightly better in single point dps but less survivable than a similarly geared wf barbarian and requiring much more caution and twitch skills. However it does give ranger lovers a fighting chance in HCL.

[spifflove]

Case 1: Dex Tempest Ranger
20 elf Ranger
Dex 20 plus level ups
1-6) Spring attack
9) ICS
15) ICR
12) Precision
18) Lesser Dragonmark
Key Enhancements:
Most tier 5 tempest plus capstone
Most Elf combat enhancements
Some tier 3 deep wood
Notably could not afford summoned arrows.
Weapons: Common elite scimitars minimum level 16 and 17

Kings’s forest: The first level 20 wilderness was quite easy. I expected not to do as well as the barb control group (see below). Had no ship buffs going in. Could not save a slave from the drow. Dps was fine. Never in danger of dying.
Chronoscope: Did very well never in danger. Was on elite not reaper. Overall I was quite pleased this build did not feel gimp. Leveling was very discouraging as 0 str= helplessness.
Hp: 420

Case 2: Dex trap monkey
Elf 17 Ranger 2 barb 1 rogue.
Stats and feats identical to case #1
Key feats: Vistani knife fighter capstone
Most tier 5 tempest
Hp:399
Shockingly I could not afford blood tribute or elf enhancements!
I was very disappointed and consider this a failed idea.

Kings forest: Performed largely identical to case 1, surprisingly as I relied heavily on blood tribute while leveling.
Random reaper 1 pug quest: Did fine no deaths dps was satisfactory

Case 3
12 ranger 8 barbarian
Str 16 + level ups
Dex 16
Con 12
Wis 14
Feats
1-6) Spring attack
9) ICS
12) knights training
15) precision
18) icr
Enhancements
41 points vistani knife fighter including capstone
39 points Tempest most tier 5
Hp 451
Barovian longswords mainhand retribution offhand both with arguments

I decided to up the test and went into the ruins of thunderholme. The challenge was more but the build was up to it and was able to solo and heal between encounters. Did random pug elite with one other person crits were 250 to 350 and minimal effort. I wasn’t used to lack of buttons on this build. Dod of course is king but vistani fortune not so much. No elf enhancements hurt this build but they can be got back with enough past lives. The build had very good dps but was a failure as no barbarian enhancements could be had. (Although improved uncanny dodge was nice)
.

Control:
20 barbarian Red Sonja variant (the Tempest of barbs.
Weapons: Barovian Khopesh and common Kruki.
Hp: 670.

Kings forest: Never in danger of dying as health self buffs when attacked. Damage needed the Frenzy capstone to equal the dps of the Rangers.
Various reaper 1: Only occasionally died. Had some problems in Chronoscope when by self but survivable. Not an embarrassing first life build. Much less twitch dependent but still twitch dependent. Overall easier to play.

[spifflove]

The Exploiter by EinarMal was the next great evolution of the Ranger. His idea was to max armor class and make a trap monkey while retaining strength as the superior dps of the time, by splashing 1 monk and one rogue. This remains the best trap monkey splash choice today although dropping rogue and adding favored soul will net more dps. Human remains the best choice if no past lives are available as Vistani is so point hungry but elf will shine with enough investment. I still went elf as this is a field test.

The Elfsploiter
Level 18 Ranger level 1 Rogue Level 1 Monk
Str 16 + level ups
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14

Feats
6) Spring Attack
9) ICS
12) Knight’s Training
15) wf slash + whirling steel strike (monk level)
18) Zen Archery
On deck: ICR, improved adept at forms

Enhancements
41 Vistani (ouch) tier 3 and capstone (bright side is daggers are centered)
1 Henshin Mystic
0 elf (ouch)
Rest Tempest. Notability could only afford two tier 5 (Double ouch).

Thunderholme
Without visiting the epic training and without a hireling. (hp 325, had a silver bow, Barovian long sword, and Retribution, 99 healing pots and 3 wands). I gave it a go this time determined to test all the way to the quest entrance. Encounters were moderate taking damage but easily healed between encounters. Traps usually missed. I had to bypass Ember but took down his friends. The salamanders were easy the shadows abit harder but no problem. I took down two rare encounters and set the mirror no problem. I used the last shrine in the final encounter area as I was out of resources. One more rare and I was at the quest portal.

Borderlands R1
I visited the epic trainers and did the chain no problem (about 600 hp, my companion had 3x). My dps was needed for bosses and crowns.

Delera’s R1
Fighting without team mates was a no no as one hit would take half my health. I was able to contribute but could not help but to think such a build would be suicidal without a team to draw aggro. One death occurred when I pulled a lever and could not manage the aggro.

Overall the build performed about the same as the dex version. I understand from elsewhere in the forums that a strength based ranger will potentially do 30% more damage then dex based. Both builds appear viable in today’s challenging melee climate but less so than the barbarian.

I do not know what choices Illuminati and EinarMal would make today but I am their chronicler.

[spifflove]

Case 1: The fast moving party
Run behind the casters. Bow is out you are stealing kills and perched mobs. You should only be able to close with crowns and bosses. Hit multi shot as you close switch to melee (may require a hop) and hot key favorite melee buffs. If you try to Zerg in these sorts of groups at best you will be swinging at mid air, at worst wind up a soul stone.

Case 2: Two man with leet player
Same thing but guard the other player and melee any mobs that close with said player. For Fey hounds hit all buffs and time haste boost.

Case 3: Leader or replacing leader
Zerg with bow out. You will damage mobs and pull them at the same time. Often the mob you pull will be dia the other times easy to finish. For groups of mobs you will weave in and out attacking sides the back while teammates finish them off or it takes a bit longer otherwise. Priority to casters. This must be practiced and cannot be taught but you should take little to no damage; it took me a year to relearn.

What about the Retribution Ranger?
Any max strength build is a Retribution Ranger with or without abusing dexterity. However, currently the Ranger capstone is lacking as it has nothing for strength Rangers or even Charisma, Wisdom, Intelligence or yes Constitution Rangers. (Or even a kewl mechanic like you get full thf when using quarterstaves and a bear has decided to follow you)

[spifflove]

Test case:
The hardcore Ranger
2 Barb/x Ranger
16 str + level ups
16 dex
16 con
14 wis
Feats) Spring Attack, ics, Knight’s training, icr.
Enhancements: blood tribute, wood elf most, rest Tempest.
Level 8 died to illusion trap after wrong turn.
Level 14 died to hound in Summerville after trying to help pug mate who was exiting out.
Level 8 died to plume of mud.
Level 9 died to overwhelming odds on a late join respawns.
Level 8 died to hound pit completion got me as I was x-ing out.
Overall got all the bad luck.
The biggest difference I noticed was when I two manned Tangleroot to the end and how easy it was including the end boss the entire chain as a level 5. In that moment Spock became the Vulcan. A year prior I had cheered when a famous u-tuber appeared and bailed us out of the final two quests.

Control:
Dwarf 2 fighter/18 barbarian
Str 30
Con 45
Hp 770 at 18 and 1100 at 20.
Level 2 died to hound after separation from party
Tangleroot- tanked dot by remote hound before fix
Hips-tanked trap down to 100 hp
Ducked hound through entrance several times.
Incapacitated by Medusa
Tanked flank attack by 3 Medusa’s in stone palace
Survived Hill Giant Army in Sharnhorn chain.
7 personed Master Artificer raid precarious win
5040 total favor
Overall got all the good luck, including not being able to fill a what goes up group.

[spifflove]

After a tough luck season I Finally dinged a 20 melee ranger with 2 days to spare. Interestingly the build was just as much archer as ranger. Though I didn’t invent the build (I got it by picking the brains of great players) this might actually be something new under the sun:

The Cornered Bear Ranger
8 Druid 12 Ranger
Race any (cannot afford racial enhancements)
18 wisdom + level ups final 34
14 con final 24
14 dex
12 strength for exceptional thf with +5 tome
Feats
1)dodge
3)mobility
6)spring attack
9)natural fighting
12)ics
15)icr
18)natural fighting
Key enhancements
3 tier 5 in nature’s defender
Paralyzing and construct bane arrows from arcane archer, all imbues.
Wisdom to hit and damage from Falconry

This build was split two ways and didn’t really come together until level 16, just in time to deal with a lower server population. I loved the paralyzation and it was very effective cc. Construct bane was key in late quests. At lower levels I struggled but I had one ace to play: in overwhelming situations I would backwards tumble into bear form allowing a seamless switch to sword and board and make my stand. I was still forced to “fight like an elf” (a term I didn’t coin) but it was easier.

I also had a great deal of luck. Twice I was engulfed by a cube in toee and once a cube chased me into a spear pit in Rainbow in the dark after my pug mate teleported out of the cube. I fought off a pursuing bearded devil while in bear form spears all around with a sliver of health.

Test toon2: The Hard Core Ranger
Ran into a trap at level 12.
Jumped down a hole with a reaper in front and lightning crossfire at level 4.
Died in final boss fight slavers 3 r3 after being rapidly 3 hit by an unseen boss even with blood tribute while “fighting like an elf” in a multiboss situation.

Controls:
2rogue 12 barbarian jumped into a mob baited trap with 2990 favor.
2 fighter 10 barbarian dwarf chased a battle engineer into an explosion.

[spifflove]

As I spent points in the dark hunter tree I noticed that all my action points went to either the wolf or trapping skills. I did get a bonus to hit for investing in spot which was nice but I imagine a new player would be gimp if they didn’t first invest in the elf racial tree.

My past life character bonuses masked trapping deficiencies until stk R1 when my guild buffs ran out and it became apparent that I would have to sacrifice speed boost for skill boost. Fortunately good pug mates had a rogue summon.

The wolf was nice maybe a little late but better than nothing. I wish the model was a Tangleroot wolf and not a darkened wolf. It would also be nice if it were inherent and points buffing the wolf buffed the hunter.

Two dark hunters take on Tangleroot
This didn’t handle much different than prior attempts as I two man completed this with a level 5 before but though we had a level 5 cleric hire both of us being melee dark hunters removed bias from the testing. Things went very smooth except one brief spot where the hire had to heal me from unconsciousness. Traps seemed to be the thing of my drow companion and he had no problem. This time my circle the toilet bowl maneuver worked on the end boss even though my pug mate was maneuvering around the side and missed the action. Pull those bows out ranger! The bow was key to this completion.

I kinda think I shouldn’t be allowed to run around with a keen falchion getting sneak attacks but that discussion has already been had.

[spifflove]

Between Dark Hunter and first core of deep wood sniper is an additional 5d6 sneak attack dice. Very nice situational damage. (10d6 total at level 10)

Snapping traps is fun tried many times to hook a reaper but never could. Catching a fire elemental was nice. Smoke bomb is nice for getting sneak attacks in crowds. Smoke trap for longer distances against single targets. My favorite use is stopping a fleeing mob.

The wolf trap finding is very nice and saves time.

Bleed them out gives an imbue toggle.

Joined pugs for all of Ravenloft R1 using a Barovian falchion at level 10 and had no problems.

Rather than have a buff that gives you a combat bonus for killing things I would prefer a healing or haste boost.

Smoke trap is now nerfed and only works until you hit a mob. No blur or displacement, nada. It was fun while it lasted.

[spifflove]

This is the level where you pick up 25% hit points and a crit buff. Overall I notice you can get these goodies for only 5 or 6 levels of dark hunter, because cores at level 6 and 12 are meh. I also notice that these level 5s naturally conflict with Tempest. So if you are a tempest only go for the wolf and sneak attack enhancements. Being an elf, I picked up a Bavarian falchion and thf and am enjoying the damage.

Ferocity: You gain 10% Doublestrike and Doubleshot. Your Dark Wolf gains 25% Attack Speed and 100% Fortification Bypass. Very nice!

My wolf is already as strong as it can get which doesn’t bode well.

Stone's Hue: Your Camouflage and Camouflage, Mass spells also grant the target +1 Physical Resistance Rating per 2 caster levels Nice now those spells are worth casting! Hate to lose ap to get this though. Maybe just change the spell?

Blade Specialization: Select from Critical Threat Range or Critical Damage Multiplier.
You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier with your weapons.
You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range with your weapons. This is the holy grail of the tree. I went with multiplier for larger crits. Note that kensai gives you an equivalent enhancement available at level 6.

Dark Sight: You have True Seeing and gain a +25% Competence bonus to Maximum Hit Points. This ability also grants a separate ability - Underdark Sight - that you may toggle on to gain sight ability while within the Underdark. This will be nice not to need underdark gogles. Hopefully they will add dark optional areas to quests.

Death Attack: Stealth Melee Assassinate Attack: On Sneak Attack: Attempt to Assassinate a foe before you. If it is an enemy type that a Dark Hunter could have as a Favored Enemy (Vermin, Elves, Aberrations, Animals, Humanoids, and Monstrous Humanoids) then you attempt to snuff out its life, killing it instantly unless it makes a Fortitude save vs Death (DC 10 + Ranger Level + highest of Dex, Int, or Wis Mod + Assassinate bonuses). If it is a different enemy type, or it makes its Fortitude save, you instead mortally wound it, lowering its Physical and Magical Resistance rating by 10 and dealing an extra 1d10 Bleed damage per character level. Basically this doesn’t work. Says it’s melee you hit the hot key and it says insufficient resources. So maybe it works sneaking but if you backstab a mob that is aggroed on someone else natha. Doesn’t work with smoke bomb. As a melee this is no use to me. Assassins rejoice!