Things that are not fun !

[bryanmeerkat]

The joy of good game design is to take out the bits that are not fun and distill the game down to bits that are fun.

Stuff that's not fun

1. Running around a wilderness area looking for the one path that will get you to a quest door so that you can find the "game"
2. Getting hit by Tiny level 7 mobs as you try and find the stupid path that is the one path that leads to your level 21 dungeon where you want to be , this knocks you off your horse or slows you in a 100 different ways .
3. Finding the one path that will lead you an inch away on the map , to then discover you are going to spend the next 15 minutes following a rediculously long and tedious path that winds round the rest of the map 3 times before finally letting you start the quest .

As a returning player after spending 20 minutes getting lost in the desert I spent a bit of time reflecting on the kind of sick and twisted developer thought this high level of tedium would help with player involvement .
This after I spent 20 minutes yesterday runnings around the edges of a pyramid before being able to enter the pyramid to play the game .


Anyway . Suggestions .
Put in some more ladders and bridges so that it's pretty much . Find the entranceway . Head towards entranceway . Play the actual quests !

Looking for a quest entry point whilst your party wait for you is not fun for new players .
Having to go back and guide the new through the wilderness is not fun for older players .

Often by the time I get to a quest the adventure part is over and the others have either waiter patiently for me to get there or already finished out .

[Marshal_Lannes]

I'm of a divided opinion on this. One of my biggest pet peeves is players getting on horses, zooming through an explorer zone, putting everyone else on red alert, and generally causing a mess as the party heads to a dungeon. Explorer zones are by their definition, something players have a chance to explore. This isn't for everyone, but some of us actually like seeing what's out there and exploring where the quests are. That said, two quality of life things could be implemented so that both types of players are satisfied.

1) Quest teleports. Why do some areas (Orchard, 3BC, Ravenloft) allow you to go directly to a quest while others (Wheloon, King's Forest, Cogs, Sands, etc) make you go through the zone? Shouldn't the game be consistent here?

2) A mechanic should be put in place where a player is automatically teleported to the dungeon when someone is inside.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

As a returning player after spending 20 minutes getting lost in the desert

This is what a desert is for.
This is what a wilderness is for.

Don't you think you'd get lost in an Real Life wilderness ? Go on a hiking route and learn.

No, to me, this "instant gratification" path via teleporting etc. is - to me - merely a sign of lazyness.

[bryanmeerkat]

This is what a desert is for.
This is what a wilderness is for.

Don't you think you'd get lost in an Real Life wilderness ? Go on a hiking route and learn.

No, to me, this "instant gratification" path via teleporting etc. is - to me - merely a sign of lazyness.

I wouldn't go to a desert to have a fun time ......
If I wanted to get lost in a wilderness I'd go outside .

Is it lazy to not want to spend half my playing time trying to get to a quest ?

When you play pnp dnd next do this .

Player : I'll head to the temple.
DM . Which direction do you walk.
Player : The guy said north . So North .
DM :. You find a slightly raised cliffside .
Player :. I go up and around it .
DM : Okay . You find a slightly raised cliffside
Player :. I go up and around it . Can I see the temple , are we close ?
DM . Yeah it's at the top of the hill .
Player : ok I go to the temple .
DM ... There's a slightly raised cliffside .
Player : ok I go round it and head towards the temple .
DM ... There's a slightly raised cliffside .
Player : ok I go around it and head to the temple .


3 hours later .

DM: okay guys theres a slightly raised cliffside .
Player : fine I go up and around it ......
DM : Tihis ones slightly higher than before. What's your jump skill ?
Player :. 20 ..
DM ah you fall down a ravine. Your back to where you started 3 hours ago .
Player : yeah ... I am not coming next week .
DM . Great session guys

[Peter_Principle]

This is what a desert is for.
This is what a wilderness is for.

Don't you think you'd get lost in an Real Life wilderness ? Go on a hiking route and learn.

I can only assume you hit yourself in the head several times with a hammer after each combat encounter.

[Weemadarthur]

I'm of a divided opinion on this. One of my biggest pet peeves is players getting on horses, zooming through an explorer zone, putting everyone else on red alert, and generally causing a mess as the party heads to a dungeon. Explorer zones are by their definition, something players have a chance to explore. This isn't for everyone, but some of us actually like seeing what's out there and exploring where the quests are. That said, two quality of life things could be implemented so that both types of players are satisfied.

1) Quest teleports. Why do some areas (Orchard, 3BC, Ravenloft) allow you to go directly to a quest while others (Wheloon, King's Forest, Cogs, Sands, etc) make you go through the zone? Shouldn't the game be consistent here?

2) A mechanic should be put in place where a player is automatically teleported to the dungeon when someone is inside.

100% agreed.

No.2 suggestion would also be of great help to new players that don't know where the quests are yet.

[C-Dog]

Have a hard time in... Sands?

Not everything in the game is handed to you on a silver platter. Part of the "fun" is the challenge of discovery. If it was easy from the start, it would be boring.

Not everyone will find "fun" in every last part of the game. If you don't like some part, don't play that part, pretty simple.

[Weemadarthur]

Have a hard time in... Sands?

Not everything in the game is handed to you on a silver platter. Part of the "fun" is the challenge of discovery. If it was easy from the start, it would be boring.

Not everyone will find "fun" in every last part of the game. If you don't like some part, don't play that part, pretty simple.

If the Sands had an epic version I would see your point. I really don't know how much "fun" its supposed to be running around a level 8 area on a level 20+ character though.

[Torkzed]

Not everyone will find "fun" in every last part of the game. If you don't like some part, don't play that part, pretty simple.

Ironically, this is exactly what he is asking for...a way to go around the part he doesn't like so that he can get to the part he wants to play. And yet many replies are giving him a hard time for it. The problem in this case is that the part he wants to play *requires* spending time in the part he does not like...bad design.

I like exploring wilderness area the first few times, after that I just want to get through them so I can get to the quest I am want to run. I am one of the folks that rides through on my horse to get there as fast as I can, for any wilderness area that has been available for more than a month or so.

There is absolutely no good reason not to have a teleport to quest entrances. Exactly which mechanism is best is debatable (we have at least three different quest teleport mechanisms that I can think of off the top of my head...).

EDIT: As an example, the expansion generally regarded as the *best expansion ever* -- ravenloft -- uses the most friendly teleport option. If you don't want to spend time in the wilderness area, you never have to, other than a short run from the exit of mists to the first tavern. The folks that designed ravenloft knew their business. I suspect most were temporary hires.

[anangel22]

I can only assume you hit yourself in the head several times with a hammer after each combat encounter.

must have been some time ago though, dude has been eagerly adopting the role of residential village idiot for quite a while now.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

All zones should be coded like Three Barrel Cove

you discover the quest location, then you can quick travel there once its unlocked.

We do not need time-sinks in DDO many players have busy lives and can only game for set periods of time,
there's no benefit to requiring someone to navigate a wilderness 1354153 times just because in real life
there are no quick travels.

Star Trek got it right in the 1960s.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

Have a hard time in... Sands?

Not everything in the game is handed to you on a silver platter. Part of the "fun" is the challenge of discovery. If it was easy from the start, it would be boring.

Not everyone will find "fun" in every last part of the game. If you don't like some part, don't play that part, pretty simple.

This - Part of the "fun" is the challenge of discovery. If it was easy from the start, it would be boring.

is fine the 1st time. there is no reason to require players to ride through wilderness zones to redo quests they've already discovered. Every quest, once done should grant a return to zone token.

They could even establish this as a 'Book of Charts' that allows you to open your book of visited locations and quick travel to the entrance. We all have lives outside of mmo land - I do not need to run to the wiz king pyramid 345 times - I already found it.

Indiana Jones got this right in the 1980s with its red quick travel maps.

[Logicman69]

I actually have the opposite view. I enjoy the explorer areas and trying to get to the quest. This is an adventure game, what's an adventure game without the adventure. This is where I found Sharn to be completely lazy in design. Just "jump on a syskiff" and you are instantly at the start of the quest. I hated it, even if it makes for quick leveling.

I will agree that there should be a mechanic that once you find the entrance to a quest ONCE, you will be able to teleport to it. But you need to find it on your own at least once to be able to do that.

[False_Gods]

Here's another option: Turn wilderness areas into Elite difficulty. Maybe that will get through to players that it is not there for their health. You have to remember, most players don't see very far beyond the carrot you put in front of them. If you put a quest that gives 20K xp at the end of a long expanse filled with annoyances, that translates to the player that they should simply try to get to the 20K xp as soon as possible.

Turn that once 'annoying' wilderness instance into something that is actually dangerous, thus hammering it into the players minds that this is actually something that you have to deal with and not some idiot playground that we put in the game as a minor annoyance, and players will start to respect the time and energy that goes into these areas. Make it so that players have to group up before entering the wilderness and kill whatever they encounter so they aren't all blathering across the landscape causing everyone lag. We can see in the instance of the OP, that he has been so brainwashed by people racing to get to the quest for the xp, that he actually does not understand why the wilderness even exists. Make the wilderness areas Elite or Reaper and make it clear to players that it is something they have to deal with and IS part of the quest.

[Tyrande]

Here's another option: Turn wilderness areas into Elite difficulty. [...].

Sounds a-lot like the Update 11: Secrets of the Artificers update when it was new. Lord of Blades and Master Artificer adventure areas that you have to go through and kill red names to get to when the max level was 20; every time, every raid.

Saw how far that got us? Now that part is completely removed for the Legendary raid; and even no quests prerequisite are needed.

One of the reasons that I never purchased the package "Secrets of the Artificers".

[droid327]

It's only really an issue in Sands and Vale, tbh. Oh and sorrowdusk and restless isles but there's no reason to play those anyway most new packs have better design and/or waypoint mechanics

Tip: you can invis and then mount, helps keep the trash mobs from being too annoying on a long run out

[Oxarhamar]

All zones should be coded like Three Barrel Cove

you discover the quest location, then you can quick travel there once its unlocked.

We do not need time-sinks in DDO many players have busy lives and can only game for set periods of time,
there's no benefit to requiring someone to navigate a wilderness 1354153 times just because in real life
there are no quick travels.

Star Trek got it right in the 1960s.

Agree thou it stinks that it reset on TR

[bryanmeerkat]

Have a hard time in... Sands?

Not everything in the game is handed to you on a silver platter. Part of the "fun" is the challenge of discovery. If it was easy from the start, it would be boring.

Not everyone will find "fun" in every last part of the game. If you don't like some part, don't play that part, pretty simple.

Sounds Great.

2 little things though .

How do I get to the quests I like without the running around like a headless chicken in the sands part which I don't like .

You mention how simple it is . Just do the parts I like .

And second finding a random bit of side path for a " challenge " and then running past mobs that have no chance of hurting me for 10 minutes isbhardly difficult . Its not challenging it's just tedious.

[Oxarhamar]

Here's another option: Turn wilderness areas into Elite difficulty. Maybe that will get through to players that it is not there for their health. You have to remember, most players don't see very far beyond the carrot you put in front of them. If you put a quest that gives 20K xp at the end of a long expanse filled with annoyances, that translates to the player that they should simply try to get to the 20K xp as soon as possible.

Turn that once 'annoying' wilderness instance into something that is actually dangerous, thus hammering it into the players minds that this is actually something that you have to deal with and not some idiot playground that we put in the game as a minor annoyance, and players will start to respect the time and energy that goes into these areas. Make it so that players have to group up before entering the wilderness and kill whatever they encounter so they aren't all blathering across the landscape causing everyone lag. We can see in the instance of the OP, that he has been so brainwashed by people racing to get to the quest for the xp, that he actually does not understand why the wilderness even exists. Make the wilderness areas Elite or Reaper and make it clear to players that it is something they have to deal with and IS part of the quest.

Yeah that won’t fix it only make it more annoying for any player trying to get to an IP quest

[Mininin67]

Here's another option: Turn wilderness areas into Elite difficulty. Maybe that will get through to players that it is not there for their health. You have to remember, most players don't see very far beyond the carrot you put in front of them. If you put a quest that gives 20K xp at the end of a long expanse filled with annoyances, that translates to the player that they should simply try to get to the 20K xp as soon as possible.

Turn that once 'annoying' wilderness instance into something that is actually dangerous, thus hammering it into the players minds that this is actually something that you have to deal with and not some idiot playground that we put in the game as a minor annoyance, and players will start to respect the time and energy that goes into these areas. Make it so that players have to group up before entering the wilderness and kill whatever they encounter so they aren't all blathering across the landscape causing everyone lag. We can see in the instance of the OP, that he has been so brainwashed by people racing to get to the quest for the xp, that he actually does not understand why the wilderness even exists. Make the wilderness areas Elite or Reaper and make it clear to players that it is something they have to deal with and IS part of the quest.

Just what the game needs more zones people would avoid because their idea of fun is not the same as yours

IMO all quest in a wilderness area should have ports straight to the quest like RL, so those who have run the quests many many times and rather not run thru a wilderness area can just port to the quest and go.