Unacceptable

[Jerevth]

I don't have the chrism and this piques me off, too.
The defense getting slashed by that much on a raid item is ludicrous. Did someone transpose their numbers? Reduce by "3" became reduce by "7"?

[Marshal_Lannes]

This adjustment is keeping in line with the current design philosophy that any one item should not be a "must-have" in slot. This allows for greater build diversity, doesn't force players down one path, and doesn't create a large gap between those who have the item and those who don't. Everyone knew this item was going to get adjusted. Not much of a surprise and likely an end result positive.

[Ripjaw7]

This adjustment is keeping in line with the current design philosophy that any one item should not be a "must-have" in slot. This allows for greater build diversity, doesn't force players down one path, and doesn't create a large gap between those who have the item and those who don't. Everyone knew this item was going to get adjusted. Not much of a surprise and likely an end result positive.

I do think it is nice that they are balancing out the gear and taking the time to adjust the game, though a lot of the adjustments provide a character stat and efficiency cut, which is being received negatively. Its good that you pointed out that the updated gear will allow players to create more diverse characters and not focus on getting specific gearsets to fit what they need. For instance, this update to the bloodrage chrism will make it work for some builds, but will open the door for other trinkets to be used instead for other builds.

One instance I found the gear to be a deciding factor in the game was ravenloft. Sure, the quests are doable without any ravenloft gear (I play melee, so this is more of a deciding factor), but with all of the sets and weapons equipped, there was no challenge at all, so the gear is what basically carried me through the entire saga. I'm hoping that with this gear update, it will make it so quests still have a challenge, especially in heroics, even with the gear. Gear should add some level of power, but not make it so the character becomes so powerful, they can /slap an entire dungeon.

[GramercyRiff]

This is only a terrible nerf is it's not balanced relative to the monsters/enemies we face. If all this stat crunch is balanced vs the challenges then it's all whatever.

What they do need to do though is give some kind of compensation to everyone that paid real life money for all this nerfed content. They probably won't do this though. That will be unfortunate for them.

[Scortius]

this kinda went from "must have" to "muff cabage" really quick.

Yup. There was already some serious opportunity cost in using that set instead of PoF and vs other trinkets. This takes it down to "not viable."


I like "muff cabbage" though, great words.

[Scortius]

This adjustment is keeping in line with the current design philosophy that any one item should not be a "must-have" in slot. This allows for greater build diversity, doesn't force players down one path, and doesn't create a large gap between those who have the item and those who don't. Everyone knew this item was going to get adjusted. Not much of a surprise and likely an end result positive.

The chrism hasn't been "must-have" for a long time (but some people like it). Suulo's Heart and the fey wild trinkets are viable options for lots of builds. This isn't "allowing build diversity", it's wrecking a current option that is decent but probably not optimal.

[Valerianus]

This adjustment is keeping in line with the current design philosophy that any one item should not be a "must-have" in slot. This allows for greater build diversity, doesn't force players down one path, and doesn't create a large gap between those who have the item and those who don't. Everyone knew this item was going to get adjusted. Not much of a surprise and likely an end result positive.

design philosophy? they are just getting ready for level cap increase, it will happen, we can discuss and even agree or maybe not, does not matter, that lateral progression would be better but it will happen anyway.

it's about having the actual endgame loot\content\\future just tr loot\content equally worth market wise, while the powercreep\new loot worth will go on with newer content after lvl 30.

balance does not exist and never will, only meta-shift is real, this it's just a transition.

[PsychoBlonde]

i saw this happening a year ago when everyone said keep the cap at 30.
now the power gamers have 200+ reaper points.
the 30 cappers brought this on are heads
the amazing part of the game we adept and overcome

Nah, things started to get out of hand when they started creating Legendary content and didn't yet have a feel for how much they'd need to bribe people with power to get them to buy the new packs and ESPECIALLY the Ravenloft expansion, which, if you can recall, was their first expansion in over FIVE YEARS and their first major undertaking after splitting from Turbine. They were staring financial independence and thus the risk of financial ruin hard in the face (this was before Daybreak came along too!) and their first try at selling an Expansion that had an Ultimate Edition costing over a hundred dollars.

So, they overshot the mark on the numbers and created a big problem for on down the line.

Recent expansions, however, have shown that it's not necessary to put a big numbers increase on new loot to get people to buy these expansions--not even the expensive versions! So Sharn was a relatively modest numerical increase, and Feywild didn't increase numbers at all! Now they've found their feet and can look in to moving the goalposts to reestablish a reasonable number curve.

I suspect that all of this is why we're only getting a "mini-expansion" this year, so they have time to rescale and rebalance and rework a lot of stuff and get the overall game into a more solid and rational and predictable state.

[PsychoBlonde]

The chrism hasn't been "must-have" for a long time (but some people like it). Suulo's Heart and the fey wild trinkets are viable options for lots of builds. This isn't "allowing build diversity", it's wrecking a current option that is decent but probably not optimal.

Yeah, it kinda sucks. It's good to bring this item up as a specific issue, because the devs flat out DO NOT have the time to go through EVERY item on a case-by-case basis, and weird outlier items like this were sure to be a problem. Titling the thread something like "Bloodrage chrism got smashed!" would have been better than just "unacceptable" though, given that it gives no clue as to what the actual complaint is and sounds like it's just going to be more pointless whining by people who think that an arbitrarily larger number means MOAR POWAH regardless of what that number is being compared to.

From what I vaguely understand, the items were changed by applying a blanket item level adjustment, not by manually changing every single effect. Bloodrage Chrism may have had an individually-inflated item level to power up some of its abilities that got knocked down more than it should have been.

[Tyrande]

The chrism hasn't been "must-have" for a long time (but some people like it). Suulo's Heart and the fey wild trinkets are viable options for lots of builds. This isn't "allowing build diversity", it's wrecking a current option that is decent but probably not optimal.

Guess this bloodrage chism allows two handed wielders like casters with 2HF staff wielders those extra 30 PRR/MRR 30/DR got nerfed to ground zero like all other caster related abilities...

[Certon]

Nah, things started to get out of hand when they started creating Legendary content and didn't yet have a feel for how much they'd need to bribe people with power to get them to buy the new packs and ESPECIALLY the Ravenloft expansion, which, if you can recall, was their first expansion in over FIVE YEARS and their first major undertaking after splitting from Turbine. They were staring financial independence and thus the risk of financial ruin hard in the face (this was before Daybreak came along too!) and their first try at selling an Expansion that had an Ultimate Edition costing over a hundred dollars.

So, they overshot the mark on the numbers and created a big problem for on down the line.

Recent expansions, however, have shown that it's not necessary to put a big numbers increase on new loot to get people to buy these expansions--not even the expensive versions! So Sharn was a relatively modest numerical increase, and Feywild didn't increase numbers at all! Now they've found their feet and can look in to moving the goalposts to reestablish a reasonable number curve.

I suspect that all of this is why we're only getting a "mini-expansion" this year, so they have time to rescale and rebalance and rework a lot of stuff and get the overall game into a more solid and rational and predictable state.

Yup, they borrowed the future from the playerbase, and are now defaulting on the loan.

[Certon]

This adjustment is keeping in line with the current design philosophy that any one item should not be a "must-have" in slot. This allows for greater build diversity, doesn't force players down one path, and doesn't create a large gap between those who have the item and those who don't. Everyone knew this item was going to get adjusted. Not much of a surprise and likely an end result positive.

Ah, I see Mr. "must have" is here too. He's got one argument.

the problem I see with your argument is that either they create a bunch of "must haves" that people just cannot get all of, or they could go the route they are going now, and creating a bunch of "mehs" with the eyes on post 30 leveling. They are making level 30 seem much less than legendary and much more humdrum. That way the shiny of the NEW legendary can lure people further into the trap.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Ah, I see Mr. "must have" is here too. He's got one argument.

the problem I see with your argument is that either they create a bunch of "must haves" that people just cannot get all of, or they could go the route they are going now, and creating a bunch of "mehs" with the eyes on post 30 leveling. They are making level 30 seem much less than legendary and much more humdrum. That way the shiny of the NEW legendary can lure people further into the trap.

That is the glass half empty view. The glass-half-full view is that by eliminating best in slot must-have items players no longer feel bound to specific choices. Character building expands limited only by imagination. True, players could always do this before but the must-have items were so powerful it regulated anyone not using them to flavor. There are hundreds of epic items in the game. Why wouldn't you want to be able to use more than a handful? This shift in the design paradigm opens up that opportunity.

[mikarddo]

Making all items "equal" may offer diversity in terms of what gear to use - but mostly in terms up nothing being interesting.

What needs to be done for actual fun diversity is several different super greats items that just dont mix well with each other.

The game *needs* the extra powerful items. I just needs enough of them and in ways that do not mix well to offer interesting choices.
Uninteresting choices may be choices, but remain uninteresting.

[Marshal_Lannes]

What you're describing is the exact power creep the developers are trying to roll back. Because (for example)Sharn set bonuses are so powerful, anything that comes after them must be equal or at least Sharn +1 to compete with the Sharn slots. How many times have you read on the forums that Feywild items were a fail because they didn't replace Sharn? So they could either keep escalating the power or do what they are doing. I don't agree that everything becomes generic or the same. Again, there are hundreds of epics items. Let's at least see how they are used in the next coming weeks before declaring them all interchangeable.

[merlinfire1]

If you are looking at numbers in a vacuum, and not factoring in that combat in DDO is the balancing of an equation with two sides, then you'll get yourself all hot and bothered over nothing.

Will some items be pushed too far during balance? Possibly, and that's why feedback is good and needed.

But when I see posts where people are imputing nefarious motives to the devs, or are otherwise saying the sky is falling, I just wish people would rein it in a little bit. We can give constructive criticism like adults.

[Arctigis]

...
But when I see posts where people are imputing nefarious motives to the devs, or are otherwise saying the sky is falling, I just wish people would rein it in a little bit. We can give constructive criticism like adults.

Sure. But in the same update they'll sell you access to OP Filigree sets and, for $100, as many Sparks as
you want.

[Chai]

"No one item is must have."

/creates set bonus META.

[Chai]

But when I see posts where people are imputing nefarious motives to the devs, or are otherwise saying the sky is falling, I just wish people would rein it in a little bit. We can give constructive criticism like adults.

Nothing nefarious about it. Many of the same folks who lobbied hand over fist for this revenue model quoting the "game experience may change at any time" part of the TOC, just learned what that means.

After people paid to attain faster for two rounds of character power, the second one gets rolled back equal to the first one - something they also paid to attain faster previously. The grown adult customer feedback from people who paid is they didnt need to pay for another equal item set, and had they known it would get nerfed to equal they would have just held on to the first item set and not paid to attain the second much more quickly. The company made those more recent ones temporarily better which caused people to pay to attain those more rapidly, only to make it equal to the first ones.

When your revenue model is players paying to attain character power faster, you can take the normal amount of rage you would see over a nerf and multiply it by 10.

No one is claiming the sky is falling. If it was they'd find a way to charge us AS to keep it from doing so.

[Varr]

I thought for sure the issue was going to be that the 30 DR stayed 30 DR and was not reduced to like 15 or 20. I'm assuming its just an oversight. Probably got tired reducing numbers and about 4 in just took a break and didn't get back to it.