U50 Preview 2: Endgame Itemization Adjustments

[Cocomajobo]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

With Update 50 we are making some adjustments to curtail power creep within DDO's end game, focusing specifically on the power level of items at the level cap. These adjustments will change how you approach gearing, and will encompass both adjustments to player power in addition to content difficulty. We want to go into more detail about why we are doing this and what it means, and we look forward to hearing from you after checking things out on Lamannia.

Background Information

We have steadily increased the amount of power available in itemization in order to provide a sense of progression as our end game has matured. This strategy has resulted in two long term challenges, both of which we are here to address:

Challenge 1: Item power level increases over time as we release new content, and we progress beyond the item power level of older content at the same challenge level.

Challenge 2: As we follow along this system of progression, we in turn increase the difficulty of content to provide challenge. This leads to a situation where content meant to be played at a certain character level ends up with a wide range of difficulty.

With those two challenges in mind, we are aiming to equalize and reduce the power level of items found in end game content, and adjust the power level of monsters at end game to match.

Solution Part 1: Itemization

In summary:

Named Items found within Legendary content will be adjusted and normalized to values appropriate to their minimum level. This means that an item found within Ravenloft will match the power level of an item found within Sharn, or Feywild, or any of our other current Legendary content.

• This adjustment will pull the item values to more reasonable levels across the board, resulting in a streamlined curve that extends upwards from 1 to 30 with fewer jumps and tracks with both randomly-generated loot and Cannith crafted loot.
• This will not affect anything other than the named items found within legendary content and Cannith Crafted Loot that used the "Minimum Levels 31-34 Shards". Random Loot, Augments (named or otherwise), Items found within events, or anything else other than named items found within legendary content and Cannith Crafted Loot that used the "Minimum Levels 31-34 Shards" will be changing.
• Items will be adjusted in place without any necessary intervention on the player's part, to prevent the situation where legacy versions of items are more powerful than newly found versions.
• These items will continue to drop in the same place they currently do at the same drop rates.
• Items with crafted components, such as Slavers Crafting, will have their crafted components adjusted just like the statically set effects found on non-crafted gear.
• Set bonuses at endgame will have their numerical power adjusted to appropriate values to match our new goals for player power sourced from itemization at endgame.
• The +W bonus from Keen has been adjusted to instead provide complete fortification bypass on a Natural 20.
• Raid items and Minor Artifacts will retain their proportional power boosts to other items at the same level, and therefore will remain a step stronger than other items at the same level.

What this means is that the items you find at end game will be lower in item power than they were before, but are now evenly scaled across content packs. This means that an item found in Feywild will be equally as strong as an item found within Sharn or Ravenloft or the Dragonblood Prophecy, or any other Legendary content featuring level 29 items.

To provide some concrete context, this is where the numbers will likely end up at the current level cap. Also note that raid items and artifacts will be a few steps higher than what's shown here as well.



Solution Part 2: Monster Power

We have been increasing the power level of monsters found at the level cap as the power level of items increased over time, and since we are adjusting these items downwards, we will be adjusting monsters downwards to match. There are many layers to our monster adjustments, and certain adjustments will only affect certain monsters, so we have split out our changes into a few sections. These sections are additive - if a monster is in a Legendary Tier 2 dungeon, it will have all 3 sets of modifications as it is level 20+, level 30+, and in a Legendary Tier 2 dungeon.

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 20+ (Epic and Legendary):

• -6 Saving Throws

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 30+ (Legendary):

• -25% Maximum HP
• -25% Armor Class

Changes that affect all monsters in all content from Sharn onwards (Legendary Tier 2)*:

• -60 Attack Bonus
• -4 AC
• -10 Saving Throws
• -35 Melee Power
• -35 Ranged Power
• -45 Universal Spell Power
• -100% Fortification
• -150% Fortification Bypass
• -10 Spell Penetration
• -5 Influence DCs (for things like Intimidate, Diplomacy, or Bluff)
• -10 Physical Resistance Rating

*This buff scales slightly with your difficulty, values shown above are for Reaper difficulty Monsters on Normal/Hard/Elite will lose less because their bonuses were lower.


Furthermore, with this patch we are adjusting how Party Scaling functions in Epics. This mechanic is not generally talked about in a player-accessible way, so we've tried our best to explain everything that is changing.

Party Strength is a value that each member of the party you are in contributes to as soon as they step within the dungeon. A lower Party Scaling value is better than a higher one. The lower the number, the greater the reduction in damage, maximum HP, and player-affecting-CC duration in your instance. Previously all characters were considered party strength 1.5 in most of Epics, while in heroics most players are closer to 1 if not 1 exactly. We've changed this so that all players at level 21+ have a party strength of 1. The results are as follows**:

• A 1 person party (party strength 1) will have monster hit points of at 62% of normal (compared to right now, which is 68% for a party scaling of 1.5)
• A 2 person party (strength 2) will have monsters at 75% hit points instead of 87% (because they were strength 3 previously)
• A 3 person party (strength 3) will have 87% (previously 100% because strength was 4.5 for 3 people)
• A 4+ party will operate the same (because 4 is the maximum).

**Note that Party Scaling does not function in Reaper Mode or Raid Instances, so players will see non-party-scaled-monsters in those situations.

Short and Long Term Benefits

We are compelled to make these adjustments for a large number of reasons, and we want to provide a few of the reasons today:

1. Content Pack Parity - This change will put all of the content packs at end game on the same item level scaling, which means that gear found within those content packs will be equally valuable numerically. This means that a large number of items that had previously been crunched out of viability are now able to be worked into gear sets without fear that you are settling for a subpar option.
2. Cannith Crafting Viability - This change will mean that if you have missing parts of your gear set, Cannith Crafting is now a more appealing way to fill those gaps, similar to its benefit at lower levels. It also means that we can dedicate more time to improving Cannith Crafting in the future, as its viability doesn't fall off as we approach end game.
3. Random Loot Viability - This change will mean that it is more likely that Random Loot will end up numerically viable for use at endgame. We don't generally expect established players to use Random Loot provided they have spent some time working on gear, but newer or less engaged players will now have more viable sources of power to select from.
4. Augment Scaling - This change will mean that our revamped Augments and Augment system are comparatively more valuable than they were before. Our Scaling augments (aka non-named Augments) currently stop at level 28, and will now represent a larger chunk of numerical power compared to their usage before this change.
5. Avoiding Difficulty Spikes - The adjustments of monsters at end game will help us avoid difficulty spikes, which in this case means content where there is no outward indication that it is more difficult than normal but in reality contains tougher enemies than in other quests at the same level. Our goal is to provide an end game in which everyone can contribute, but still encourage dedicated play and mastery, with a variety of options that reward a more challenging experience for those able to handle it.
6. Impact on Content Creation - Being able to use existing monster formulas without the need for additional and oftentimes lengthy one-off work makes it easier to stat monsters for dungeons, and that helps us spend more time polishing dungeons and doing cooler and better things.
7. Combat and Statistical Granularity – One of the game's greatest strengths is the granularity of numbers in its content, but working with larger numbers is generally more challenging than working with smaller numbers. We want to retain as much granularity as we can while making gear set math easier.
8. Smooth Leveling - Our long term goals with DDO involve providing a smooth and exciting leveling experience across all levels and difficulties, not just from 1 to 20. This change allows us to provide a smoother leveling curve by removing the large jump in power at level 29.
9. Future Proof Design -One of the biggest benefits of this change is how future proof it is. We will only need to do an endgame adjustment like this once, and then it's largely done and we can continue onwards into the future with a better end game.

As always, we look forward to your feedback!

[grudgebear]

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 20+ (Epic and Legendary):

• -6 Saving Throws

So fighting water elementals with 20k hp and hobgoblins with 10k hp will still be a thing while levelin in Epics... Lover epic levels require HP reduction the most.

[nobodynobody1426]

Ouch it looks like dps casters still getting deleted at cap.

[Kalapurka]

[*]The +W bonus from Keen has been adjusted to instead provide complete fortification bypass on a Natural 20.

Still going forward with this change? there's a lot of feedback regarding this.

[slarden]

So fighting water elementals with 20k hp and hobgoblins with 10k hp will still be a thing while levelin in Epics... Lover epic levels require HP reduction the most.

I believe the epic smoothing is part of U51 unless that changed.

[nobodynobody1426]

Still going forward with this change? there's a lot of feedback regarding this.

Looks like most feedback from preview 1 was tossed, other then a 25% HP reduction at cap. The changes effecting different types of DPS builds differently means they need to do more, they've acknowledged this but don't wanna do anything about it.

[grudgebear]

I believe the epic smoothing is part of U51 unless that changed.

I see, there might be a part that I missed.

[Ghlitch]

Preview 1 was really worrying to me. I lost 12 to my DCs on things like hold monster and such and when testing in P1 nothing would stick anymore. Now with the adjustments to enemy saves at cap, things are sticking again in P2 like on live. Good jorb on that part.

[Nickodeamous]

I noticed that I had a bit more MRR thanks to Arcane Barrier set now giving +30 MRR cap vs. +20 MRR cap. If this is correct, this is sweet!

Nico

[QuantumFX]

I wish you guys would give us a list of packs that you think are complete. I would make double checking the items easier. In the meantime, here are some outliers.

Champion of the Twins:
- Still has +55 Sheltering
- Still has Parrying +10
- Still Has Quality Resistance +4

Blightstaff:
- +9 Spell Penetration?

Legendary Lucid Dreams
- +19% Spell Lore - Seems kind of high
- Potency +158 - Seems kind of high

Legendary Toven's Hammer:
- Still has +10 Insightful INT.

Legendary Magewright's Spectacles:
- +9 Spell Penetration?

[Merrillman]

Address why DPS casters are getting destroyed compared to other DPS? Address it directly, thoroughly and please stop with the avoiding this question. If this is not nearly 1:1 so that I am just as effective vs before the Nerfular Bomb, please provide IN DETAIL THE EXACT PERCENTAGE changes on damage vs content before and after. The way it sounds is that if -25% HP is a thing, then my damage should be -25% to stay at parity before and after. My conclusion now is that you’re reducing HP by 25%, but I’m Losing 40% in overall damage (incl Crit) vs only -25% HP. Is this accurate or no? If this is an incorrect assumption please let us know, as this is a huge problem for me if it is true.

Secondly for the love of god SCALE RAIDS TO BE PARTIES OF 4,6,8 & 10 as well as the 12 so they are doable for people on low pop servers. Or merge servers! Please!!!

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

With Update 50 we are making some adjustments to curtail power creep within DDO's end game, focusing specifically on the power level of items at the level cap. These adjustments will change how you approach gearing, and will encompass both adjustments to player power in addition to content difficulty. We want to go into more detail about why we are doing this and what it means, and we look forward to hearing from you after checking things out on Lamannia.

Background Information

We have steadily increased the amount of power available in itemization in order to provide a sense of progression as our end game has matured. This strategy has resulted in two long term challenges, both of which we are here to address:

Challenge 1: Item power level increases over time as we release new content, and we progress beyond the item power level of older content at the same challenge level.

Challenge 2: As we follow along this system of progression, we in turn increase the difficulty of content to provide challenge. This leads to a situation where content meant to be played at a certain character level ends up with a wide range of difficulty.

With those two challenges in mind, we are aiming to equalize and reduce the power level of items found in end game content, and adjust the power level of monsters at end game to match.

Solution Part 1: Itemization

In summary:

Named Items found within Legendary content will be adjusted and normalized to values appropriate to their minimum level. This means that an item found within Ravenloft will match the power level of an item found within Sharn, or Feywild, or any of our other current Legendary content.

• This adjustment will pull the item values to more reasonable levels across the board, resulting in a streamlined curve that extends upwards from 1 to 30 with fewer jumps and tracks with both randomly-generated loot and Cannith crafted loot.
• This will not affect anything other than the named items found within legendary content and Cannith Crafted Loot that used the "Minimum Levels 31-34 Shards". Random Loot, Augments (named or otherwise), Items found within events, or anything else other than named items found within legendary content and Cannith Crafted Loot that used the "Minimum Levels 31-34 Shards" will be changing.
• Items will be adjusted in place without any necessary intervention on the player's part, to prevent the situation where legacy versions of items are more powerful than newly found versions.
• These items will continue to drop in the same place they currently do at the same drop rates.
• Items with crafted components, such as Slavers Crafting, will have their crafted components adjusted just like the statically set effects found on non-crafted gear.
• Set bonuses at endgame will have their numerical power adjusted to appropriate values to match our new goals for player power sourced from itemization at endgame.
• The +W bonus from Keen has been adjusted to instead provide complete fortification bypass on a Natural 20.
• Raid items and Minor Artifacts will retain their proportional power boosts to other items at the same level, and therefore will remain a step stronger than other items at the same level.

What this means is that the items you find at end game will be lower in item power than they were before, but are now evenly scaled across content packs. This means that an item found in Feywild will be equally as strong as an item found within Sharn or Ravenloft or the Dragonblood Prophecy, or any other Legendary content featuring level 29 items.

To provide some concrete context, this is where the numbers will likely end up at the current level cap. Also note that raid items and artifacts will be a few steps higher than what's shown here as well.



Solution Part 2: Monster Power

We have been increasing the power level of monsters found at the level cap as the power level of items increased over time, and since we are adjusting these items downwards, we will be adjusting monsters downwards to match. There are many layers to our monster adjustments, and certain adjustments will only affect certain monsters, so we have split out our changes into a few sections. These sections are additive - if a monster is in a Legendary Tier 2 dungeon, it will have all 3 sets of modifications as it is level 20+, level 30+, and in a Legendary Tier 2 dungeon.

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 20+ (Epic and Legendary):

• -6 Saving Throws

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 30+ (Legendary):

• -25% Maximum HP
• -25% Armor Class

Changes that affect all monsters in all content from Sharn onwards (Legendary Tier 2)*:

• -60 Attack Bonus
• -4 AC
• -10 Saving Throws
• -35 Melee Power
• -35 Ranged Power
• -45 Universal Spell Power
• -100% Fortification
• -150% Fortification Bypass
• -10 Spell Penetration
• -5 Influence DCs (for things like Intimidate, Diplomacy, or Bluff)
• -10 Physical Resistance Rating

*This buff scales slightly with your difficulty, values shown above are for Reaper difficulty Monsters on Normal/Hard/Elite will lose less because their bonuses were lower.


Furthermore, with this patch we are adjusting how Party Scaling functions in Epics. This mechanic is not generally talked about in a player-accessible way, so we've tried our best to explain everything that is changing.

Party Strength is a value that each member of the party you are in contributes to as soon as they step within the dungeon. A lower Party Scaling value is better than a higher one. The lower the number, the greater the reduction in damage, maximum HP, and player-affecting-CC duration in your instance. Previously all characters were considered party strength 1.5 in most of Epics, while in heroics most players are closer to 1 if not 1 exactly. We've changed this so that all players at level 21+ have a party strength of 1. The results are as follows**:

• A 1 person party (party strength 1) will have monster hit points of at 62% of normal (compared to right now, which is 68% for a party scaling of 1.5)
• A 2 person party (strength 2) will have monsters at 75% hit points instead of 87% (because they were strength 3 previously)
• A 3 person party (strength 3) will have 87% (previously 100% because strength was 4.5 for 3 people)
• A 4+ party will operate the same (because 4 is the maximum).

**Note that Party Scaling does not function in Reaper Mode or Raid Instances, so players will see non-party-scaled-monsters in those situations.

Short and Long Term Benefits

We are compelled to make these adjustments for a large number of reasons, and we want to provide a few of the reasons today:

1. Content Pack Parity - This change will put all of the content packs at end game on the same item level scaling, which means that gear found within those content packs will be equally valuable numerically. This means that a large number of items that had previously been crunched out of viability are now able to be worked into gear sets without fear that you are settling for a subpar option.
2. Cannith Crafting Viability - This change will mean that if you have missing parts of your gear set, Cannith Crafting is now a more appealing way to fill those gaps, similar to its benefit at lower levels. It also means that we can dedicate more time to improving Cannith Crafting in the future, as its viability doesn't fall off as we approach end game.
3. Random Loot Viability - This change will mean that it is more likely that Random Loot will end up numerically viable for use at endgame. We don't generally expect established players to use Random Loot provided they have spent some time working on gear, but newer or less engaged players will now have more viable sources of power to select from.
4. Augment Scaling - This change will mean that our revamped Augments and Augment system are comparatively more valuable than they were before. Our Scaling augments (aka non-named Augments) currently stop at level 28, and will now represent a larger chunk of numerical power compared to their usage before this change.
5. Avoiding Difficulty Spikes - The adjustments of monsters at end game will help us avoid difficulty spikes, which in this case means content where there is no outward indication that it is more difficult than normal but in reality contains tougher enemies than in other quests at the same level. Our goal is to provide an end game in which everyone can contribute, but still encourage dedicated play and mastery, with a variety of options that reward a more challenging experience for those able to handle it.
6. Impact on Content Creation - Being able to use existing monster formulas without the need for additional and oftentimes lengthy one-off work makes it easier to stat monsters for dungeons, and that helps us spend more time polishing dungeons and doing cooler and better things.
7. Combat and Statistical Granularity – One of the game's greatest strengths is the granularity of numbers in its content, but working with larger numbers is generally more challenging than working with smaller numbers. We want to retain as much granularity as we can while making gear set math easier.
8. Smooth Leveling - Our long term goals with DDO involve providing a smooth and exciting leveling experience across all levels and difficulties, not just from 1 to 20. This change allows us to provide a smoother leveling curve by removing the large jump in power at level 29.
9. Future Proof Design -One of the biggest benefits of this change is how future proof it is. We will only need to do an endgame adjustment like this once, and then it's largely done and we can continue onwards into the future with a better end game.

As always, we look forward to your feedback!

[droid327]

I think LE is in a good place now, well done!

I brought in my straight-from-live L29 CHA Pal. Gear is not fully endgame (mix of L15 Sharn set with some endgame stuff like Brightlord, LColl Sight, etc.). Struggles pretty hard with EE solo right now on Live...but running Grimm and Sharn Welcome EE on Lama, felt just right. Mobs were no longer brick walls of HP, even the bosses. They did enough damage to be challenging and make me pay attention, give them respect, but didnt completely roflstomp me the moment I made any mistake. I noticed my Dire Charge seemed to be working more reliably than it does on Live, especially in Sharn, but wasnt an auto-stun win button either.

When I hit the dojo and got fully geared, the threshold moved up to R1. That sounds about like where it should be - it was doable, but not automatic.

[GeoffWatson]

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 20+ (Epic and Legendary):

• -6 Saving Throws

That's it?
With the massive nerfs to low-epic characters with the Destiny changes?

[Aerinsma]

How do hirelings affect party scaling?

[Taraborn]

That's it?
With the massive nerfs to low-epic characters with the Destiny changes?

Destiny changes are not until Update 51, so I wouldn't expect to see the changes to low epics until then.

[GoldyGopher]

Party Strength is a value that each member of the party you are in contributes to as soon as they step within the dungeon. A lower Party Scaling value is better than a higher one. The lower the number, the greater the reduction in damage, maximum HP, and player-affecting-CC duration in your instance. Previously all characters were considered party strength 1.5 in most of Epics, while in heroics most players are closer to 1 if not 1 exactly. We've changed this so that all players at level 21+ have a party strength of 1. The results are as follows**:

• A 1 person party (party strength 1) will have monster hit points of at 62% of normal (compared to right now, which is 68% for a party scaling of 1.5)
• A 2 person party (strength 2) will have monsters at 75% hit points instead of 87% (because they were strength 3 previously)
• A 3 person party (strength 3) will have 87% (previously 100% because strength was 4.5 for 3 people)
• A 4+ party will operate the same (because 4 is the maximum).

**Note that Party Scaling does not function in Reaper Mode or Raid Instances, so players will see non-party-scaled-monsters in those situations.

Are you referring to what we know as Dungeon Scaling?
https://ddowiki.com/page/Dungeon_Scaling

How is Party Scaling adjust be difficulty? Casual, Normal, Hard and Elite?

How about Solo quests? There are a couple want to make sure they are not lost in the either.

Currently there is Dungeon Scaling on Reaper, it is very easy to see in the quest Search and Rescue, where both the number of mobs appearing and their hit points scaled. When I questioned this years ago I was informed it was WAI.

How will character class and multi-class characters work with Party Scaling?

What about Hirelings and Gold Seal Hireling?

Summons and Pets? Just covering all bases.

What about mob's DC and AC? Any other stats affected by party scaling?

[TFerguson]

Changes that affect all Monsters in all content that is level 20+ (Epic and Legendary):

• -6 Saving Throws

Changes that affect all monsters in all content from Sharn onwards (Legendary Tier 2)*:

• -60 Attack Bonus
• -4 AC
• -10 Saving Throws
• -35 Melee Power
• -35 Ranged Power
• -45 Universal Spell Power
• -100% Fortification
• -150% Fortification Bypass
• -10 Spell Penetration
• -5 Influence DCs (for things like Intimidate, Diplomacy, or Bluff)
• -10 Physical Resistance Rating

I'm an idiot who can't do first grade math. nothing to see here

[TFerguson]

Are you adjusting spell resistance at all?

[TFerguson]

Secondly for the love of god SCALE RAIDS TO BE PARTIES OF 4,6,8 & 10 as well as the 12 so they are doable for people on low pop servers. Or merge servers! Please!!!

Do not do this, under any circumstance.

[Lynnabel]

That's it?
With the massive nerfs to low-epic characters with the Destiny changes?

We are focusing the monster adjustments of U50 to center primarily on legendary content because that is where the gear is being adjusted. We can do further, across the board in epics adjustments with U51/ED changes, but we should get this feeling great and fair first :) one thing at a time!

I wish you guys would give us a list of packs that you think are complete. I would make double checking the items easier. In the meantime, here are some outliers.

Turns out I just missed a whole big bunch of shields, which are now all fixed. Also, Spell Pen and Spell Resistance both got across-the-game item-focused buffs, and are reflecting their new, higher values on those items. We talk about this in this post right here.