U50 Preview 2: Endgame Itemization Adjustments

[slarden]

Reaper lockout says you can't even enter most of them, and none of them have good rxp/sxp/item/character progression, which is why basically no one does them.

So let's take a concrete example, say a weak hybrid build like Axel's THF Melee Cleric Build. As per Axel it is a R1 (Sharn)-R5 (RL) solo build.
.

Well I think calling someone's build "weak" is bad form. The best build for a person is a build they enjoy playing and pushing solo skulls isn't the success criteria for every player (very few rank this high in fact).

I also think you are making assumptions about what he runs R1 and R5. I personally run legendary Sharn and Ravenloft on the exact same skull every life, but there are some specific quests I run at lower skulls or skip each life because of the specific quest mechanics or I don't enjoy it as much as I like the other quests. An example for me is Best Laid Plans, Slavers III, TOEE part II. The latter 2 are not tier 2 but I find them harder than most tier 2 quests.

Anyone that is uber on a single focus build is unaffected, and anyone that is not uber or on a flavor build is taking a 4 skull reaper penalty.

What is your basis for this conclusion? I am not seeing the impact of these changes being so significant.

[Tilomere]

Ahh nvm.

[Mindos]

I wonder if you can give the Epic Unkor's Cleaver in the level 20 and 30 version constitution for damage and to hit like the heroic version has, I thought always it is very sad and wondered if the developer who did this just only forgot to give that axe this feature.

The Chaos blade and the cleaver should have 2k vorpal in the level 20 version and 3000 vorpal in the level 30 version,

This is good stuff. The unkors cleaver I agree with, always wondered why it lost its uniqueness.

[slarden]

The old pain and suffering set bonus was 2[W] and the new set bonus is .5[W]. I understand you are removing the keen bonus for most weapons, but this is a set bonus and .5[W] is 2.75 damage which seems super weak for a set bonus at level 30.

I would suggest making the pain and suffering set bonus 1[W] instead of .5[W] as surely 5.5 damage at level 30 isn't over-powered. These are just a couple of pocket knifes so the [W] is miniscule compared to other weapons.

I also noticed +3 sneak dice from mantle of suulomades was missing. I assume this was an oversight, but please add the sneak damage back.

The other thing I noted is my 2 piece LGS set went form 18% hp bonus to 7%, presumably with a 1+ 1 per augment formula meaning a 5-piece set would now be 16%. I think a formula of 3 + 1 per augment would be more consistent with the winter set - providing half the amount it is today.

Between the 75% reduction of my pain and suffering set, loss of sneak dice from mantle of suulomades and 61% reduction of my LGS set bonus my squishy assassin wielding a couple of little pocket knifes was hit harder than my other builds.

[Cantor]

Still going forward with this change? there's a lot of feedback regarding this.

I see why they are doing it... Currently if it's not keen5 it's not worth much of a look, that's bad. I still think they could do something better with it though, bypass on a vorpal is not very good to replace an effect that was the best and doesn't scale for different levels of keen.

[Vish]

Ahh nvm.

Since my monk build is being destroyed

Let’s destroy them all

For balance

[Tilomere]

Since my monk build is being destroyed

Let’s destroy them all

For balance

That's the spirit!

[Kelledren]

I see why they are doing it... Currently if it's not keen5 it's not worth much of a look, that's bad. I still think they could do something better with it though, bypass on a vorpal is not very good to replace an effect that was the best and doesn't scale for different levels of keen.

I agree as everyone was clamoring for Keen weapons coming out of the D&D raid because of the disparity of end game weapons with Keen and without it. But I was hoping they would change it to the same 0.5W that a Vorpal weapons get for preview 2. This, in addition to the fort bypass, would give us little something for those weapons we farmed out not that long ago.

[Carpone]

Raid bosses with really high Wisdom (and therefore really high Intimidate DCs) got their Wisdom adjusted by -20 for this preview. The big ones here are The Lord of Blades and Qaspiel Mistwalker (the two with the highest DCs)

Thank you. The Intimidate required for those raid bosses was ridiculously high.

[Cantor]

I agree as everyone was clamoring for Keen weapons coming out of the D&D raid because of the disparity of end game weapons with Keen and without it. But I was hoping they would change it to the same 0.5W that a Vorpal weapons get for preview 2. This, in addition to the fort bypass, would give us little something for those weapons we farmed out not that long ago.

I'm happy with no +w on it but, it needs something that scales.

Something new would be amazing but even something like: keen level x3 keen bonus to fort bypass bonus so it scales? and even at keen5 15 is not game breaking, could be 2 or 4 per level if 3 seems off.

[Zretch]

I also noticed +3 sneak dice from mantle of suulomades was missing. I assume this was an oversight, but please add the sneak damage back.

I don't think it was. Sneak attack die were also removed from Tyrannical Tinkerer, but kept as the 5 piece bonus in the spring set of Feywild.

[slarden]

I don't think it was. Sneak attack die were also removed from Tyrannical Tinkerer, but kept as the 5 piece bonus in the spring set of Feywild.

I am hoping not as it would be an item nerf rather than a stat squish and this was advertised as a stat squish.

[Kelledren]

Hopefully after ‘The Squishining’ is done, the Devs will still be willing to take feedback on adjusted level 28+ items and sets. It sounds like some items/sets might have black holes where abilities that are hard to scale down were, like a few SA dice. Not sure if the number of set abilities is just going down for some sets, which is ok I suppose, but for named items if something gets removed entirely, then hopefully something else is added back so it still has at least 4 abilities.

It seems like so many item adjustments had to be done it blows my mind this is all being done in one update. Maybe there are less special abilities (i.e not on Cannith crafting table) than I am thinking.

[Loromir]

I'm really late to the party here...but here goes.

Back when Slavelords pack was released, attributes stats jumped from +12 max to +17 max in just one step, from one update to the next, and then they also added some pretty big insightful bonuses to stats as well as quality bonuses to stats.

I spoke up and said that big of a stat jump was not necessary and would greatly perpetuate power bloat. Needless to say, they didn't listen.

Point is....listen to the players...we know what we are talking about. Seems like a lot of our feedback gets glossed over.

[krimsonrane]

Don't forget you're also losing consume and the charm thingy. So assassins will have zero AOE effects. They'll basically be fighters with evasion and minimal PRR.

[Kielbasa]

So just a thought since +w is being nerfed all over the place can you unnerf on hit effects in reaper? Currently all that matters is base damage, crits and for certain builds sneak attack. Opening up options for your players rather than constantly narrowing what is effective would be nice.

[MacDubh]

The old pain and suffering set bonus was 2[W] and the new set bonus is .5[W]. I understand you are removing the keen bonus for most weapons, but this is a set bonus and .5[W] is 2.75 damage which seems super weak for a set bonus at level 30.

I would suggest making the pain and suffering set bonus 1[W] instead of .5[W] as surely 5.5 damage at level 30 isn't over-powered. These are just a couple of pocket knifes so the [W] is miniscule compared to other weapons.

I also noticed +3 sneak dice from mantle of suulomades was missing. I assume this was an oversight, but please add the sneak damage back.

The other thing I noted is my 2 piece LGS set went form 18% hp bonus to 7%, presumably with a 1+ 1 per augment formula meaning a 5-piece set would now be 16%. I think a formula of 3 + 1 per augment would be more consistent with the winter set - providing half the amount it is today.

Between the 75% reduction of my pain and suffering set, loss of sneak dice from mantle of suulomades and 61% reduction of my LGS set bonus my squishy assassin wielding a couple of little pocket knifes was hit harder than my other builds.

It just keeps getting worse ...

Could this be the worst update ever?

[slarden]

It just keeps getting worse ...

Could this be the worst update ever?

I personally think removal of the sneak dice from mantle of suulomades was too much as was the reduction in LGS and the pain and suffering set bonus. Overall I think they did a really good job on this. I think 3+1 per augment for LGS and 1[W] Set bonus for pain and suffering make more sense. I mean seriously the horizon walker favored enemy bonus is bonkers and 1[W] for the daggers is only 5.5 damage.

[elvesunited]

Don't forget you're also losing consume and the charm thingy. So assassins will have zero AOE effects. They'll basically be fighters with evasion and minimal PRR.

The epic destiny early preview was a much different preview than this one.

This one the decision for adjusting items was already made. They mainly wanted us to test it. Maybe we could nudge it in the case of some issues it had, Maybe not. But we were never going to convince them to make massive changes.

The epic destiny preview was very different. The trees we got were incomplete and in some cases very flawed. The devs listened to our feedback and often agreed with a lot of it. The builder/spender mechanic will either be very different or removed entirely. I suspect the next epic destiny preview will look quite different. They may even bring back consume and/or shadow manipulation.

As such we should wait until the next epic destiny pass before declaring the sky is falling. Unless you think that the changes in Update 50 alone warrant that reaction. In which case .... run, Chicken Little, run! Warn the townspeople! the end is nigh!

[Cellestte-Sarlona]

Any way to get this full list? This is really handy because so much has changed all at once and is really hard to determine what is good for a certain level now.