Question, Devs, about new system--with an example

[Tyrande]

[...]

The same goes for DDO, not all changes are good ones. When you don't enjoy the changes made to your leisure activities you don't adapt and overcome... you go find a new leisure activity to enjoy.

What you are saying is true, Aelonwy, but there is this thing called inflation.

The government just printed 5 trillon dollars between last year and this year...

Imagine I bought my house back in 1998 for $248,000 USD. Now, I cannot even find a house in my neighborhood for less than 600,000$...

Gas used to be less than $1.00 per gallon back in the nineties. Now its over $3.00 per gallon. Some states like Hawaii and California shot over $4.00 per gallon occasionally.

A gift card of $50 in nineties can buy a ton of groceries back then, and now ....? not much.

I believe these Texas Festival shops need to make their bottom line as well, and I believe SSG too.

Of course, its up to us players to vote what to play with our wallets.

[Varr]

(DEVs, PLEASE look at my toon Alryssa as an example of a well-balanced character with perfectly balanced gear for what was needed--you have my permission)

Let's use my favorite toon as an example, Alryssa of Dar Qat, a level 30 (18 wizard/2 monk.)

18/2 Wizard Monk..........so great, so rare. Its funny, I'm 180 degrees and fully optimistic about the new changes. I'm more DC centric than sounds like you are, and only pick up stunning fist occasionally (have it now instead of shuriken expertise in Drow version of Varr on Cannith.) Actually cant wait to see the caster trees and getting to pillage from a couple and say monk or rogue........so so good.

[Marshal_Lannes]

While you are not wrong about adapting to change you are ignoring that people spend money on a leisure activity for enjoyment change what they enjoy and then expect them to pay more? Let me give you a concrete example.

What you're describing is inflation. This isn't applicable since the price of DDO hasn't appreciably changed over the years. You could actually argue the price went down since they gave away quests during the pandemic (or call it a wash since you have to pay for expansions - although technically you can buy them all with free VIP DDO points so...)

The scenario you've outlined is what happened with me and concerts. I used to hit up dozens of concerts every year when tickets were $18-25. I saw everybody from all different genres. But when prices started going up to $75, 100, even $200 I tapped out. I wasn't going to spend that on a concert ticket. The point is we all make economic choices about inflation and I don't think that applies to DDO. DDO remains an incredible value for the entertainment it provides.

The OP seems hung up on well I invested in stunning. That doesn't seem to be a particularly hard thing to respec out of. As pointed out there are many options for mass stuns in the trees. It shouldn't be too hard to redo the character to take advantage of them providing the player is willing to adapt.

[Aelonwy]

I believe these Texas Festival shops need to make their bottom line as well, and I believe SSG too.

Yes inflation exists, you know what I could go into a big long discussion of why TRF's business practices are incredibly greedy and actually hurting even the shop leasers but I don't have the time to type out a full page of text giving you the background of how TRF is run so let me just say... if the mall had people singing and juggling in kiosks asking for tips and the mall's food was triple price, and you had to pay to park at the mall or walk 15-20 minutes in the heat would you pay all that extra including an entrance fee per person to shop and eat and drink at an outdoor mall? Or would you shop online?

Inflation exists but I can go to the store around the corner right now and pick up an 8pack of 12oz sodas for less than 5$, they have no business charging 4$ each for them. That's greed. Greed on that level means I stay home, keep my money in my pocket, take my kids to the park instead, and if there is something I really, really want from one of the shops I'll order it online where TRF doesn't get a cut. Because make no mistake the shop "leasers" pay a fee to lease their shop there and they pay a percentage of their profits, and they are required to make improvements to their shop every year. Increasing all the prices to enter the park, eat and drink, be convenient to the park entrance... all that does is mean people have less money to spend in the actual shops or are less willing to tip the performers. Oh by the way all the food and drink places at the festival as far as I'm aware are owned by the owner of the festival, so only he directly profits off those price hikes.

But we're talking about DDO and how sometimes when things change enough people just stop thinking its worth it. They stop being willing to spend time and money on something that is no longer fun for them, sometimes you don't want to make the effort or spend the money to adapt to changes that were not of your choosing. Why spend good money after bad? Is that not the definition of the sunk cost fallacy? Yes you can adapt and overcome... if you are still having fun. If you're not? then I can find NO fault with you for looking for something else to spend your time and money on.

[Aelonwy]

What you're describing is inflation.

It is inflation and yet its not. Inflation does not fully account for the price hikes... greed does more to account for them. Inflation did not make the first 5-10 rows of parking no longer free. Greed did.

The price hikes and greed are still an example of change. A change in the festival-going experience, and its pretty dang negative. Negative enough that I'm less and less willing to adapt (pay more) for a continued leisure experience at the festival. Just as people experiencing massive upheaval in their character building and playing experience may be less and less willing to buy hearts and tomes, and spend x-amount of time to "adapt and overcome."

[PsychoBlonde]

(DEVs, PLEASE look at my toon Alryssa as an example of a well-balanced character with perfectly balanced gear for what was needed--you have my permission)

On the contrary, this is not a "well-balanced" character build. It's a flat out mediocre-to-bad build, pure flavor, never will be any better. There is NOTHING that is "good" about this build. Not DPS, not tanking, not CC, not heals. Hence why it was completely destroyed by the relatively minor change of moving ONE ability.

Good, well-balanced builds don't rely on singular crutch abilities in order to function. If you're leaning on a crutch, you're either playing a tweaked-out FoTM/exploit build (and thus probably OP and destined for a nerf at some point), or your build is bad and not taking advantage of all the other stuff you COULD be doing if you weren't fixated on using one ability.

Drop stun DC and raise your SPELL DC (you know, for your SPELLS, the PRIMARY REASON TO PLAY A WIZARD) and pretty soon you'll be doing R5 or better with far less work than you were put to in order to stagger through EE only sometimes able to land your mediocre CC.

And, there's no such thing as a "done" character in this game unless you're just "done" with playing them any more, which is fine.

[PsychoBlonde]

Does anyone ACTUALLY BELIEVE it’s gonna be balanced on the monster and bosses side????? I have a bridge to sell you.

Uh, yes, because we went on Lammania and actually tested it instead of just screaming about things we know nothing about. Overall the mob-to-player ratio seems to have shifted slightly TOWARD the players except in very high skull reapers, (and will only improve when the new destinies come out) and the newest content (Sharn/Feywild) is MUCH easier than it was before because they walked it back to being on the same level as Ravenloft instead of having artificial inflation. The new Saltmarsh stuff is tougher, but it's also meant to be and is higher level (level 34 instead of 32). But I was still able to waltz in there on my 3rd-best alt and wreck the place on R1 solo.

[PsychoBlonde]

To me, all of this currently rather sounds like luxury problems, because I don't see any warning that game play in the lowest to midle levels might be affected as well.

It literally doesn't affect anything other than the level 28/29 "legendary" equipment, and IIRC some of the lowest-level epics are getting mob HP reduced because it was too high compared with other content of the same level.

So, yes, unless you play endgame you will never notice the change.

And, honestly, those of us who do play endgame short of R8-R10 won't notice much difference, either, in fact, Sharn and Feywild will be EASIER.

Strimtom posted a video about some of the things that are actually seeing significant effects, most notably Turn Undead, which currently isn't endgame functional ANYWAY, and Spell Resistance, which currently likewise isn't much use at endgame. It'll also be, say, substantially more difficult to hit the doublestrike cap.

The vast majority of players will find epic difficulty more accessible, and there won't be an enormous power cliff at Legendary level where your character abruptly doubles in power in the space of one level.

Although this may mean that ToEE and Epic Orchard will be the hardest content in the game for a while until they get around to rebalancing ALL of epics and cutting off some of the really nasty difficulty spikes that were the result of uneven development. But that stuff was doable (if quite hard) back when the level cap was 28 and +11 was the stat norm, so it's not like it's suddenly going to become impossible because the gear that didn't even exist back then is getting some of its number inflation chopped off.

[Xgya]

Good, well-balanced builds don't rely on singular crutch abilities in order to function. If you're leaning on a crutch, you're either playing a tweaked-out FoTM/exploit build (and thus probably OP and destined for a nerf at some point), or your build is bad and not taking advantage of all the other stuff you COULD be doing if you weren't fixated on using one ability.

This. All of it. All of the above.

If your build is so focused on a singular ability it suddenly becomes bad if you were to lose it, there's a problem.
Either a problem with your build (a para-arrow archer that suddenly cannot kill mobs just because they're undead is NOT the undead's fault), or a problem with the ability being so strong it overshadows everything else your build SHOULD be doing.

[Varr]

I know this thread is really a focused plea to not change Dire Charge, but as they change it, here is a write up on how I play my 18/2 Wizard/Monk if looking for alternatives. 5 years in you are likely 95% of the way to my end build and a few tweaks get you there if you chose to shift gears.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...arr-on-Cannith

[Certon]

On the contrary, this is not a "well-balanced" character build. It's a flat out mediocre-to-bad build, pure flavor, never will be any better. There is NOTHING that is "good" about this build. Not DPS, not tanking, not CC, not heals. Hence why it was completely destroyed by the relatively minor change of moving ONE ability.

Good, well-balanced builds don't rely on singular crutch abilities in order to function. If you're leaning on a crutch, you're either playing a tweaked-out FoTM/exploit build (and thus probably OP and destined for a nerf at some point), or your build is bad and not taking advantage of all the other stuff you COULD be doing if you weren't fixated on using one ability.

Drop stun DC and raise your SPELL DC (you know, for your SPELLS, the PRIMARY REASON TO PLAY A WIZARD) and pretty soon you'll be doing R5 or better with far less work than you were put to in order to stagger through EE only sometimes able to land your mediocre CC.

And, there's no such thing as a "done" character in this game unless you're just "done" with playing them any more, which is fine.

Flavor build? I've done reapers with her where EVERYONE ELSE died and I saved them and everyone was marveling how I was still alive. I've off-tanked bosses. I've raised the cleric from the dead so that they could raise others. I've made HUNDREDS of builds and this one was my masterpiece. Dire Charge being taken away doesn't end her. It takes away a few heroic moments where I leap in the middle of a bunch of stunnable mobs and bring order to chaos. it's an INCREDIBLY fun ability that I don't want to lose. Is that so hard to understand?

[Certon]

This. All of it. All of the above.

If your build is so focused on a singular ability it suddenly becomes bad if you were to lose it, there's a problem.
Either a problem with your build (a para-arrow archer that suddenly cannot kill mobs just because they're undead is NOT the undead's fault), or a problem with the ability being so strong it overshadows everything else your build SHOULD be doing.

There's ONE word I take umbrage with in your statement. SHOULD. I think you know why.

[Certon]

On the contrary, this is not a "well-balanced" character build. It's a flat out mediocre-to-bad build, pure flavor, never will be any better. There is NOTHING that is "good" about this build. Not DPS, not tanking, not CC, not heals. Hence why it was completely destroyed by the relatively minor change of moving ONE ability.

Good, well-balanced builds don't rely on singular crutch abilities in order to function. If you're leaning on a crutch, you're either playing a tweaked-out FoTM/exploit build (and thus probably OP and destined for a nerf at some point), or your build is bad and not taking advantage of all the other stuff you COULD be doing if you weren't fixated on using one ability.

Drop stun DC and raise your SPELL DC (you know, for your SPELLS, the PRIMARY REASON TO PLAY A WIZARD) and pretty soon you'll be doing R5 or better with far less work than you were put to in order to stagger through EE only sometimes able to land your mediocre CC.

And, there's no such thing as a "done" character in this game unless you're just "done" with playing them any more, which is fine.

How else SHOULD I play? Please, teach me, oh wise master of how things SHOULD be. My stun DC is in the mid 90s (except when I use power word, stun which just works on anything susceptible) and if I change gear out I can get it to 106 at the cost of some HP and DR.

No, I'm going to go back to my first thought. You know what it sounds like? It sounds like you're trying to tell me something. I set out to make a mystic monk with decent to good dps, the ability to stun most of the time, and the ability to drop a lot of AoE damage while fighting and tanking. And you know what? I did that. I didn't do it poorly, and while any one of these tasks could be done better by a focused and specialized build, it wouldn't be better by a large margin. She's versatile, hard to kill, and insanely fun to play. I definitely don't need someone like you telling me what I can and cannot do, nor do I need you to tell me how I should feel or how I should just be quiet.

You are a rude and callous person and you should be ashamed of yourself, if you can even feel shame.

[Xgya]

There's ONE word I take umbrage with in your statement. SHOULD. I think you know why.

Let me rephrase my last sentence if you would:
"There's a problem with the ability being so strong it overshadows everything else your build SHOULD be able to do"
Of course, in the context of it being a complete build.

A complete build by definition is one that can handle multiple situations in multiple ways.
If you're only good at a single thing, and not multiple, your build is incomplete.
Nobody can or should stop you from playing incomplete builds.

Losing a single ability shouldn't break a build.
Gaining a single ability shouldn't make a build.
When the above happens, there's a problem with the build itself or the ability. No ifs or buts.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Flavor build? I've done reapers with her where EVERYONE ELSE died and I saved them and everyone was marveling how I was still alive.

Personally, I prefer non-Reaper flavour builds which are - so to say - "Jack-of-all-trades". This does makes me inefficient in Reaper and in Elirte difficulties, but is more fun to me.

And .... this is a game.
And games are - per definition, I think - normally about *fun*. Not about showing everyone else how good one is.
(Well, to some people, this actually *might* be fun : To show others how good one is. But I don't think that this is the normal definition of "fun" when playing games with other people.)

I've made HUNDREDS of builds and this one was my masterpiece.

Again, that's not what I would consider as "fun", not even telling everyone that one has done - as you wrote - "hundreds of builds" and that you one day did "a masterpiece". Formulations /wordings like this are only meant to make others feel small.

And feeling small is *not* what I consider as "fun".

[Certon]

Personally, I prefer non-Reaper flavour builds which are - so to say - "Jack-of-all-trades". This does makes me inefficient in Reaper and in Elirte difficulties, but is more fun to me.

And .... this is a game.
And games are - per definition, I think - normally about *fun*. Not about showing everyone else how good one is.
(Well, to some people, this actually *might* be fun : To show others how good one is. But I don't think that this is the normal definition of "fun" when playing games with other people.)



Again, that's not what I would consider as "fun", not even telling everyone that one has done - as you wrote - "hundreds of builds" and that you one day did "a masterpiece". Formulations /wordings like this are only meant to make others feel small.

And feeling small is *not* what I consider as "fun".

Those words can also be used to compensate when another's words make you feel small, as in this instance. I felt very much looked down upon. Definitely not fun.

And as far as the rush of being the hero to save a group of heroes? heck ya! sign me up! that's really fun!

[Marshal_Lannes]

Again, that's not what I would consider as "fun", not even telling everyone that one has done - as you wrote - "hundreds of builds" and that you one day did "a masterpiece". Formulations /wordings like this are only meant to make others feel small.
.

The OP's follow-up comments on masterpiece and so forth convince me now this is a thinly veiled effort to save dire charge. I'm not sure who they play with, but from my experience, virtually every melee (and many non-melee) takes dire charge. That's not so much a masterpiece choice but a best-in-slot feat everyone takes. Recent design philosophy in the game has been to move away from "best in slot" gear or feats so open up more build diversity and player options.

[Certon]

The OP's follow-up comments on masterpiece and so forth convince me now this is a thinly veiled effort to save dire charge. I'm not sure who they play with, but from my experience, virtually every melee (and many non-melee) takes dire charge. That's not so much a masterpiece choice but a best-in-slot feat everyone takes. Recent design philosophy in the game has been to move away from "best in slot" gear or feats so open up more build diversity and player options.

You can assume what you will, but Dire Charge is something I've only used on a couple builds. Do you post in these forums just to assume things and to make people feel small? Mission accomplished.