Question, Devs, about new system--with an example

[Certon]

(DEVs, PLEASE look at my toon Alryssa as an example of a well-balanced character with perfectly balanced gear for what was needed--you have my permission)

Let's use my favorite toon as an example, Alryssa of Dar Qat, a level 30 (18 wizard/2 monk.)

Using a combination of spells, toggles, and gear, I've gotten a stunning fist DC that reliably stuns on EE--not always but often. Also, because I maxxed my Epic Destinies, I chose Dire Charge as a feat so that I'd have a second AoE stun that also stuns reliably. This was a LOT of work and gear acquisition, to be able to engage directly in melee as a caster--my to hit is reliable, my damage is decent, and while my spellcasting doesn't work well in all or nothing scenarios, my wall of fire, death aura, cloudkill, consecration (twisted in for more aoe damage and some healing for allies) does some decent DPS. I have over 1.2k hp. my PRR is just over 100. and I dodge i think 18% of attacks.

This character is the result of years of work. YEARS. And I LOVE playing her. Will she be the same when the new system comes online? From what I've seen, she won't be, and if I'm wrong, prove me wrong. I will be ECSTATIC to be wrong!

Dire charge should remain a feat. Full stop. Its prerequisites should be stunning blow, or stunning fist. Don't put it in an epic tree at tier 5. I will lose it.

[Enderoc]

You are worried about dire charge when really you need to work on that physical resistance...its at epic level

[Stravix]

(DEVs, PLEASE look at my toon Alryssa as an example of a well-balanced character with perfectly balanced gear for what was needed--you have my permission)

Let's use my favorite toon as an example, Alryssa of Dar Qat, a level 30 (18 wizard/2 monk.)

Using a combination of spells, toggles, and gear, I've gotten a stunning fist DC that reliably stuns on EE--not always but often. Also, because I maxxed my Epic Destinies, I chose Dire Charge as a feat so that I'd have a second AoE stun that also stuns reliably. This was a LOT of work and gear acquisition, to be able to engage directly in melee as a caster--my to hit is reliable, my damage is decent, and while my spellcasting doesn't work well in all or nothing scenarios, my wall of fire, death aura, cloudkill, consecration (twisted in for more aoe damage and some healing for allies) does some decent DPS. I have over 1.2k hp. my PRR is just over 100. and I dodge i think 18% of attacks.

This character is the result of years of work. YEARS. And I LOVE playing her. Will she be the same when the new system comes online? From what I've seen, she won't be, and if I'm wrong, prove me wrong. I will be ECSTATIC to be wrong!

Dire charge should remain a feat. Full stop. Its prerequisites should be stunning blow, or stunning fist. Don't put it in an epic tree at tier 5. I will lose it.

Considering how most of the new ED trees have at least some form of AoE helpless CC in them, the loss of dire charge will not be as big, due to you having another AoE CCer to take it's place.

[Tyrande]

Considering how most of the new ED trees have at least some form of AoE helpless CC in them, the loss of dire charge will not be as big, due to you having another AoE CCer to take it's place.

You meant Weird for Shadow Dancer or Mass Frog for Primal Avatar? I guess it can be considered an AOE CC with AOE IK if it works, at range that is.

BTW, there is no AOE CC for Shiradi Champion; nor is there one for Divine Crusader...

[Stravix]

You meant Weird for Shadow Dancer or Mass Frog for Primal Avatar? I guess it can be considered an AOE CC with AOE IK if it works, at range that is.

BTW, there is no AOE CC for Shiradi Champion; nor is there one for Divine Crusader...

Divine Crusader got updated with one, AoE helpless causing CC that scales with sunder DCs. What exactly that CC will take the form of has yet to be finalized yet though.

That said, I meant all melee supporting trees have it, but I did miss Shadowdancer missing out, as it just gets perma-max dodge instead.

[Certon]

Divine Crusader got updated with one, AoE helpless causing CC that scales with sunder DCs. What exactly that CC will take the form of has yet to be finalized yet though.

That said, I meant all melee supporting trees have it, but I did miss Shadowdancer missing out, as it just gets perma-max dodge instead.

sunder DCs would be totally worthless on her because she worked on stun DC. Any of the abilities that don't use stun might be useless. =(

[Certon]

Considering how most of the new ED trees have at least some form of AoE helpless CC in them, the loss of dire charge will not be as big, due to you having another AoE CCer to take it's place.

if that AOE CC uses stun DC's. If not, its useless to me.

[Certon]

You are worried about dire charge when really you need to work on that physical resistance...its at epic level

my PRR in cloth can't really go much higher, but with dodge and incorporeal I can engage groups of monsters reliably most of the time, even in low reapers.

[Stravix]

if that AOE CC uses stun DC's. If not, its useless to me.

Then grab the spender from GMoF, as that is the stunning DC one.

[Certon]

Then grab the spender from GMoF, as that is the stunning DC one.

lol martial charges. a huge step down from dire charge, which i had before. so sad.

[Stravix]

lol martial charges. a huge step down from dire charge, which i had before. so sad.

I mean, it is effectively dire charge sans the charge part. You will likely have a full 3 charges back in the 12s cooldown of the skill, same as what dire charge was.

Am I missing something?

[Certon]

I mean, it is effectively dire charge sans the charge part. You will likely have a full 3 charges back in the 12s cooldown of the skill, same as what dire charge was.

Am I missing something?

Before I just spent a feat that basically had grind time prerequisites. Now, I have to invest in a tree, and seeing as I don't have that many EPLs, the only way I will be able to do anything going forward is to do the 20-30 (or 20-35 later on) treadmill 1 eTR for 1 AP. This character WAS DONE. I pulled her out to have fun. Ugh.

[Stravix]

Before I just spent a feat that basically had grind time prerequisites. Now, I have to invest in a tree, and seeing as I don't have that many EPLs, the only way I will be able to do anything going forward is to do the 20-30 (or 20-35 later on) treadmill 1 eTR for 1 AP. This character WAS DONE. I pulled her out to have fun. Ugh.

52 points (the amount of points a person with no EPLs gets) is still a significant amount, plenty to make very viable builds with.

That said, I want to inform you that they have stated that even if level cap increases, ETR can happen at 30, not whatever cap goes to.

[Certon]

52 points (the amount of points a person with no EPLs gets) is still a significant amount, plenty to make very viable builds with.

That said, I want to inform you that they have stated that even if level cap increases, ETR can happen at 30, not whatever cap goes to.

I was in Fury of the Wild ED, with (Fire Damage/Heal) Consecration and Sacred Ground twisted in, along with (+1W) A Dance of Flowers from GMOF Tier 1 and Legendary Tactics (+6 DC stun) from Tier 1 Legendary Dreadnought.
ON TOP of that, I had Dire Charge! I'm getting royally screwed. My Epic PL toggle was Tier 3 Colors of the Queen as well. I spent a LOT of my time getting ALL of this. it wasn't something I did over a week or a weekend. It took me years to get it all just right, AND get the most versatile gear I could for the unique balance of classes I was walking around with.

I believe that is 100% impossible now. 4 EDs, and those Tomes of Fate books are now, what? 1 AP. Those weren't cheap.

[Merrillman]

Yup. 5 years of grind for my elemental caster to become endgame and raid viable and now it’s gone. I want to see what idiots buy this expansion. They’re gonna lose a LOT of revenue and a LOT of players. I love DDO but not to the point where I will let myself get s*****d by these devs and with the worst of possible get out of jail free card excuses.... “balance.” To hell w balance!! It’s not balanced for someone else to have 200 reaper points when I have 24 and they can blow through heroic levels in 3 days and it would take me three months of playing only because they have no family or other forms of life and live in moms basement and can play 8 hours a day every day when I can play 8 hours a WEEK.

All the work to get here has been STOLEN by the devs. What’s the BS excuse? “Balance:” give me a break. It’s not balanced when spells cost more as a % of the spell point Pool since spell points are getting crushed but spell costs are not. It’s not balanced when I’m getting 40% or more damage reduction and bosses are not. It’s not fair when our defenses are getting hurt more than monster stats are getting nerfed.

Does anyone ACTUALLY BELIEVE it’s gonna be balanced on the monster and bosses side????? I have a bridge to sell you.

(DEVs, PLEASE look at my toon Alryssa as an example of a well-balanced character with perfectly balanced gear for what was needed--you have my permission)

Let's use my favorite toon as an example, Alryssa of Dar Qat, a level 30 (18 wizard/2 monk.)

Using a combination of spells, toggles, and gear, I've gotten a stunning fist DC that reliably stuns on EE--not always but often. Also, because I maxxed my Epic Destinies, I chose Dire Charge as a feat so that I'd have a second AoE stun that also stuns reliably. This was a LOT of work and gear acquisition, to be able to engage directly in melee as a caster--my to hit is reliable, my damage is decent, and while my spellcasting doesn't work well in all or nothing scenarios, my wall of fire, death aura, cloudkill, consecration (twisted in for more aoe damage and some healing for allies) does some decent DPS. I have over 1.2k hp. my PRR is just over 100. and I dodge i think 18% of attacks.

This character is the result of years of work. YEARS. And I LOVE playing her. Will she be the same when the new system comes online? From what I've seen, she won't be, and if I'm wrong, prove me wrong. I will be ECSTATIC to be wrong!

Dire charge should remain a feat. Full stop. Its prerequisites should be stunning blow, or stunning fist. Don't put it in an epic tree at tier 5. I will lose it.

[Merrillman]

I was in Fury of the Wild ED, with (Fire Damage/Heal) Consecration and Sacred Ground twisted in, along with (+1W) A Dance of Flowers from GMOF Tier 1 and Legendary Tactics (+6 DC stun) from Tier 1 Legendary Dreadnought.
ON TOP of that, I had Dire Charge! I'm getting royally screwed. My Epic PL toggle was Tier 3 Colors of the Queen as well. I spent a LOT of my time getting ALL of this. it wasn't something I did over a week or a weekend. It took me years to get it all just right, AND get the most versatile gear I could for the unique balance of classes I was walking around with.

I believe that is 100% impossible now. 4 EDs, and those Tomes of Fate books are now, what? 1 AP. Those weren't cheap.

You are so right. But the reality is they don’t really care. I hope everyone has the will to drop VIP, stop spending on DDOP & to not buy any expansions until they pledge to un-scr*w the players with the Nerfular bomb they are about to drop.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

You are so right. But the reality is they don’t really care. I hope everyone has the will to drop VIP, stop spending on DDOP & to not buy any expansions until they pledge to un-scr*w the players with the Nerfular bomb they are about to drop.

I wonder who is actually affected by this ?

To me, this all sounds leke the end game people not wanting anything to be changed. I do not recall ever any comments not to change anything in the low to middle levels.
People are surely like "we don't care about low level - there's nothing needed to change there", which tells me that people who have that mind set have totally lost touch with the ground and are blissfully floating around within the end game clouds, so to say.

To me, all of this currently rather sounds like luxury problems, because I don't see any warning that game play in the lowest to midle levels might be affected as well.

[Merrillman]

I wonder who is actually affected by this ?

To me, this all sounds leke the end game people not wanting anything to be changed. I do not recall ever any comments not to change anything in the low to middle levels.
People are surely like "we don't care about low level - there's nothing needed to change there", which tells me that people who have that mind set have totally lost touch with the ground and are blissfully floating around within the end game clouds, so to say.

To me, all of this currently rather sounds like luxury problems, because I don't see any warning that game play in the lowest to midle levels might be affected as well.

Not at all, the problems are that the game has been sold as “X.” People put in literally years of work to maximize “X” and if it were just a “tweak” there would not be the grumbling and high levels of anger. But it’s NOT a tweak. This a complete “game changer” which makes the game a whole different type of game that moves more toward being the kind of game MANY players don’t want it to be. You call it “luxury?” Let me inform you of something. I was willing to spend money on expansions, DDOP, and spell pots ONLY because by doing so, I had some chance of catching players who can sit home all day (that’s the REAL luxury) and play for hours in end when I’m busting my hump 12 hours a day working and more taking care of family. I enjoyed the way ddo was made. It was unique. A very different game that always kept getting better and not making the mistakes other games have by screwing players. Now that has ended. There is no way to get around having to grind for heroic and racial past lives to even come close to being once again viable. This destroys YEARS of work for a lot of people, and in particular, DPS casters, which is all I play.

Essentially, the “bait and switch” makes DDO devs gigantic liars in what they promised, the premise on which they sold previous packs, and they are now literally STEALING back that which we paid for. Now, it’s their game. They can do whatever they want to do, and the only way to make them pay attention is to leave the game or hold back purchases, or both. I already know a half dozen people who left permanently because of this announcement. DDO doesn’t realize it yet and maybe they don’t care. But if enough people do, then they’ll be forced to listen or watch the game fold. I hope the revenue drops like a stone and they have an “oh ****, what did we do” “EPIC moment.”

[Marshal_Lannes]

Like everything else, those who are amenable to change will prosper, those who refuse to change will not. Adapt, Darwin, I Ching. Whatever, man roll with it. Multiple suggestions have been given and you're still staying, "But I want Dire Charge!". Well, you aren't going to have Dire Charge unless you T5 it. In almost every case the changes made to the game have been well-received by the player base once they've had the chance to play with them. More build diversity, less pigeonholing. DDO is a better game now than it was 5 years ago. As for who is going to buy the expansion? Me. And a whole bunch of others who play the game I would imagine.

[Aelonwy]

Like everything else, those who are amenable to change will prosper, those who refuse to change will not. Adapt, Darwin, I Ching. Whatever, man roll with it.

While you are not wrong about adapting to change you are ignoring that people spend money on a leisure activity for enjoyment change what they enjoy and then expect them to pay more? Let me give you a concrete example.

I love the Texas Renaissance Festival. I've been going there since I was 12. I've worked there. I met my husband there. We were married there. Prior to 2012 we went nearly every weekend. But they keep changing things and not in a good way. A hamburger used to be 4$, same hamburger was 9$ year before last. Ticket price was 18$ when we met there now its 35$. Parking was free, then it became first 5 rows (closest to the doors/shortest walk) was 5$, then first 10 rows 10$ IIRC, now? you have to walk for 15-20 minutes just to get to the door. Drinks? a 12oz soft drink was 2.50$ now its 4$. A ride/game used to be 3$ now they are 5-10$ for a 3 minute activity. What I'm saying is the price hikes coupled with the reduction in convenience (walk to the doors) means not only do we go less and spend less with the people that own shops out there, but I've been considering quitting the Renaissance Festival all together. My ties to friends out there aren't so strong that I'm willing have my wallet rifled by Festival's management. We skipped last year for obvious reasons, maybe we don't ever go back.

The same goes for DDO, not all changes are good ones. When you don't enjoy the changes made to your leisure activities you don't adapt and overcome... you go find a new leisure activity to enjoy.