Hope you have already farmed all your reaper xp

[LightBear]

Show me a single build where reaper trees or sentience makes or breaks the build or is a critical component to its functioning, and not just unnecessary stat bloat.

Pritty much this. And with more bloat the easier the reaper content becomes.
Same as with each past live the cycle through completionist becomes more and more easy.

Its called an incentive to play the game more often then just once.
And works great.

But yeah, I do use that bloat as a fit to my playstyle and being able to effectively play any reaper.
I'm not a gamer that has every item swap, spell or other specials programmed away behind some magic key-combo or a programmable keyboard.
So better stats makes my game time way more enjoyable.

But I guess we all have to have that house p cloak of mirrors now... wondering what the legendary version of it will do.

[Kebtid]

Show me a single build where reaper trees or sentience makes or breaks the build or is a critical component to its functioning, and not just unnecessary stat bloat.

They are core critical components when doing harder r10 raids shortman.
On r1 or r7 @ 20 pike they do not matter.

[LurkingVeteran]

They are core critical components when doing harder r10 raids shortman.
On r1 or r7 @ 20 pike they do not matter.

The trees give the largest boost to hitpoints, so as long as it doesn't matter if you keep dying (or can compensate by other means) I guess they aren't important. I'm guessing that playing a first-life zero-RP light melee would be pretty painful though.

[Kebtid]

The trees give the largest boost to hitpoints, so as long as it doesn't matter if you keep dying (or can compensate by other means) I guess they aren't important. I'm guessing that playing a first-life zero-RP light melee would be pretty painful though.

For tanks, and for dc casters it is a make or break between staying alive or keeping party alive, for melee dps it does not matter that much, sure the melee power and boost help but they are not critical (might change with update as we wont have that many builds dstrike capped so it might become more relevant again)

[LurkingVeteran]

For tanks, and for dc casters it is a make or break between staying alive or keeping party alive, for melee dps it does not matter that much, sure the melee power and boost help but they are not critical (might change with update as we wont have that many builds dstrike capped so it might become more relevant again)

You missed my point. Yes, the party can survive if a zero-RP rogue dies, but he will still be dying a lot. Anybody with zero RP that isn't a high-hitpoint build will die a lot, but melee actually have to be in melee range. Sure you can even pike, but is it fun?

[Kebtid]

You missed my point. Yes, the party can survive if a zero-RP rogue dies, but he will still be dying a lot. Anybody with zero RP that isn't a high-hitpoint build will die a lot, but melee actually have to be in melee range. Sure you can even pike, but is it fun?

The point is that in some raids in r10, even with maxed out rap, if you are not a dedicated tank but a melee dps player you will get 1 shoted.
It does not matter if you have 0 or max rap, the difference here lies purely in the melee power and trance base damage from caster tree of you contributing slightly more or slightly less.
Now if one of the defensive trees offered some form of dodge boost, to respect the less of meld (but it could be vastly overpowered i do not know)

[LurkingVeteran]

The point is that in some raids in r10, even with maxed out rap, if you are not a dedicated tank but a melee dps player you will get 1 shotted.
It does not matter if you have 0 or max rap, the difference here lies purely in the melee power and trance base damage from caster tree of you contribting slightly more or slightly less.

Yeah, but that is hardly the average play experience. A player with zero or little RP probably won't be very useful in an R10 group regardless. The problem is when a hypothetical new or old returning player join a PUG, it will most likely be an R1-R5 group where everybody else is steamrolling stuff with twice the hit points from reaper trees, while they will die a lot if they try to keep up. If this is a problem or not depends on what SSGs priorities are. I think it merits discussion why high reaper is now "too easy" in some cases, and what an appropriate scaling would be for mob hp and damage, as well as player hp and damage. They made reaper damage scale by a large amount and then added large flat hit point bonuses back into the trees.

[Kebtid]

Yeah, but that is hardly the average play experience. A player with zero or little RP probably won't be very useful in an R10 group regardless. The problem is when a hypothetical new or old returning player join a PUG, it will most likely be an R1-R5 group where everybody else is steamrolling stuff with twice the hit points from reaper trees, while they will die a lot if they try to keep up. If this is a problem or not depends on what SSGs priorities are. I think it merits discussion why high reaper is now "too easy" in some cases, and what an appropriate scaling would be for mob hp and damage, as well as player hp and damage. They made reaper damage scale by a large amount and then added large flat hit point bonuses back into the trees.

The problem is no matter what ssg does, we will adapt. If they destroy reaper hp, or gate it with more level scaling, we will just use builds that either have more defensive abilities or are ranged, with barely to no rap, when i came back after a long few years break, i did rloft with guildies and i did not feel useless or was dying by having barely 10ish rap, i just changed my build to accommodate to that fact that i did not have access to tools they had.
Now after a while, im at the point where rap are not a issue and the only difference is that i can play less then optimized for defense hyper aggressive builds (no hp% winter set on melees or casters, a fsoul with sp instead of hp soul, palies that take vistani capstone and do not get stance upgrades, alot of choices that are just agresive).

If they removed that from the game, we would still find a way, i did r10s solo the day they were announced on lama as a tree melee build with 0 rap and 0 new gear.

We will adapt, we will find a way, no matter what they do, the problem right now is not the fact that they give to much power but the investment it took to get them.

Anyone that cared to run r10s, and cares put alot of investment, and i personally think it would not be fair for the sake of the players that do not play that content to invalidate our effort/money/timesink.

If r10 is made harder, it wont affect most of the community anyways.
Those that it affects will adapt, only thing i can see what could be done is maybe gate the benefit from rap based on skulls.
Like 1 skull 10% of rap use allowed.
up to 10 where 100% is granted.

That way people with lower rap playing in content with people with more rap wont feel discouraged (and r10 should stay max rap in use)

[LightBear]

Yeah, but that is hardly the average play experience. A player with zero or little RP probably won't be very useful in an R10 group regardless. The problem is when a hypothetical new or old returning player join a PUG, it will most likely be an R1-R5 group where everybody else is steamrolling stuff with twice the hit points from reaper trees, while they will die a lot if they try to keep up. If this is a problem or not depends on what SSGs priorities are. I think it merits discussion why high reaper is now "too easy" in some cases, and what an appropriate scaling would be for mob hp and damage, as well as player hp and damage. They made reaper damage scale by a large amount and then added large flat hit point bonuses back into the trees.

Wile true, I have no problem with asking returning players to stay behind me and then explain that I will form a buffer between them and mobs. Ofc this only works when they range or cast spells, when they return on their rogue and expect to be able to stealth and assassinate or just flank... they'll afk after the 3th death in 5 minutes or so.

[Arctigis]

Anyone that cared to run r10s, and cares put alot of investment, and i personally think it would not be fair for the sake of the players that do not play that content to invalidate our effort/money/timesink.

To be clear, I 100% wouldn't want to do that. However, SSG have started this process with
the ED rework and statsquish. Whilst I don't have many reaper points, my focus was on
racial reincarnation. My main is a racial completionist. With the statsquish, the power of
PLs and reaper points sticks out like a sore thumb. As myself and others have said, the
OP L29 gear was an equalizer between haves and have nots. Now, not so much.

People who keep saying that relative power between mobs and players will be the same are
kidding themselves. They can't possibly do that as the power of PLs and Reaper points is
the SAME as it was before. This will be even worse in U51 as the players with all the EPLs
will have at least 9 more destiny points (DPs) to spend in the new ED trees. To be honest, the
passive/active EPL components are strong enough without needing to contribute to DPs as
well (yes I have a bunch of EPLs too). Either it will be too hard for toons with no RAP and PLs
or too easy for multi-completionist + wings characters (who already claim it's too easy).

IMO they should have scaled 20 - 27 gear to the Sharn/FW curve, changed Cannith Crafting to (named - 1)
levels, moved Slave Lords to L27, RL to 28 and FW to 30 and had whatever progression they wanted for
30+. It's just numbers.

[Tebaco]

It's does matter, because everyone that seems to want reaper trees removed have no reaper points , so its no loss to them.
I wasn't hoping for anything to be honest, you can get 24 point doing one run through r10s at cap, 2days. Getting to 156 has taken
People 3-4 years not a weekend bro. How would u like 4 years of work deleted because somone doesn't have what you have worked for. Feeling its ruining their own personal experience soloing....common man.

+1

[Tebaco]

To be clear, I 100% wouldn't want to do that. However, SSG have started this process with
the ED rework and statsquish. Whilst I don't have many reaper points, my focus was on
racial reincarnation. My main is a racial completionist. With the statsquish, the power of
PLs and reaper points sticks out like a sore thumb. As myself and others have said, the
OP L29 gear was an equalizer between haves and have nots. Now, not so much.

People who keep saying that relative power between mobs and players will be the same are
kidding themselves. They can't possibly do that as the power of PLs and Reaper points is
the SAME as it was before. This will be even worse in U51 as the players with all the EPLs
will have at least 9 more destiny points (DPs) to spend in the new ED trees. To be honest, the
passive/active EPL components are strong enough without needing to contribute to DPs as
well (yes I have a bunch of EPLs too). Either it will be too hard for toons with no RAP and PLs
or too easy for multi-completionist + wings characters (who already claim it's too easy).

IMO they should have scaled 20 - 27 gear to the Sharn/FW curve, changed Cannith Crafting to (named - 1)
levels, moved Slave Lords to L27, RL to 28 and FW to 30 and had whatever progression they wanted for
30+. It's just numbers.

I have no idea what are you talking about guys. There are literally more than 10 difficulties so every player can find his sweet point and stick with it. What are you trying to solve? Equalize all? Remove difficulties?

[scut207]

Seriously I only have like 55 RP, I don't like high skull reaper. Im still working on Racial, Epic and Heroic past lives. I just want to be able to knock them out in the next 2-3 years doing R1s.

I'm not that awesome of a player and I know it. But if R1, my comfort zone is considerably harder in early epics after all these nerfs, I'm not sure I'm re-subbing.

They need to normalize the difficulty of mobs lvl 1-30. There shouldn't be some insane jump at 20 if the equipment doesn't match that jump and they've now gated all the destinies by level.

Getting maxed destiny and twists at 20 barely made some of the early epic quests tolerable.

I dont care if they add Reaper 11 through 100 I'm fine with them making it insanely harder for people who want it, but R1 should feel the same after all these nerfs - Give people what they are asking for.

Im getting kind of tired of the Devs pulling the ladder. R1 was insanely easier when I started playing reapers 3-4 years ago prior to reaper HP being buffed to like 3x what it was. This game badly needs a catch up mechanism. The only method currently is for an R10 group to take pity on noobs.

it takes a normal person about 20-25 hours of gameplay to do a heroic. about 9-12 to do an epic life. Thats like 4.5 years worth of playing for someone playing a healthy 5-10 hours a week. They dont need to make it take longer.

[Tilomere]

They are core critical components when doing harder

You would find the same harder gameplay without reaper points on a lower skull difficulty. They aren't critical in any way to producing gameplay.

But I will admit it is a good point and they are critical for certain players who need a progression system.

People are losing their minds over a stat squish where they aren't intended to lose any power.

I bet they also nuke specific things people aren't paying to replace or won't replace soon like Bloodrage Chrism just like RL belts. Even if they don't intend to, it's not like there aren't always winners and losers just by happenstance, the majority of which will be resolved, and the minority of which never is.

[Arctigis]

I have no idea what are you talking about guys. There are literally more than 10 difficulties so every player can find his sweet point and stick with it. What are you trying to solve? Equalize all? Remove difficulties?

Um, the devs has said they intend to make changes such that the game
'feels' the same despite the statsquish. I'm just pointing out that is not
possible. Not for everyone anyway.

[Wizard1406]

Seriously I only have like 55 RP, I don't like high skull reaper. Im still working on Racial, Epic and Heroic past lives. I just want to be able to knock them out in the next 2-3 years doing R1s.

I'm not that awesome of a player and I know it. But if R1, my comfort zone is considerably harder in early epics after all these nerfs, I'm not sure I'm re-subbing.

They need to normalize the difficulty of mobs lvl 1-30. There shouldn't be some insane jump at 20 if the equipment doesn't match that jump and they've now gated all the destinies by level.

Getting maxed destiny and twists at 20 barely made some of the early epic quests tolerable.

I dont care if they add Reaper 11 through 100 I'm fine with them making it insanely harder for people who want it, but R1 should feel the same after all these nerfs - Give people what they are asking for.

Im getting kind of tired of the Devs pulling the ladder. R1 was insanely easier when I started playing reapers 3-4 years ago prior to reaper HP being buffed to like 3x what it was. This game badly needs a catch up mechanism. The only method currently is for an R10 group to take pity on noobs.

it takes a normal person about 20-25 hours of gameplay to do a heroic. about 9-12 to do an epic life. Thats like 4.5 years worth of playing for someone playing a healthy 5-10 hours a week. They dont need to make it take longer.

Well said.

I just got good enough to do most of heroic R1 if no group or no one joins. Epic R1 is still too hard for me to solo / low man with people around my power or lower. And few people join or make below R1 groups except the xp farm quests. If they make low reaper harder, I won't ever catch up and have to consider only playing heroics or quitting.

And the legendary quests that get posted become higher and higher skulls as well. Getting carried in R8-R10 group is not my idea of fun. There has to be another way to catch up with stats than being carried in high reaper group and grinding literally years of pastlives. I think the 80-20 rule is violated in DDO, making the catchup grind between extremely long and impossible depending on the players circumstances and time.

Your pastlife time numbers are already really low. For a casual player with 5-10 hours a week and doing other stuff (ex. farm gear, stay at cap), not always leveling super efficiently because that's boring, and taking breaks from the game so you don't get burn out, it will take much longer.

Pastlives are introduced WAY faster than a casual player can complete them.

[Marshal_Lannes]

And the legendary quests that get posted become higher and higher skulls as well. Getting carried in R8-R10 group is not my idea of fun. There has to be another way to catch up with stats than being carried in high reaper group and grinding literally years of pastlives. I think the 80-20 rule is violated in DDO, making the catchup grind between extremely long and impossible depending on the players circumstances and time.

Exactly. The argument "there are ten difficulty levels" is willfully ignorant of the realities of grouping. You cannot get a group for say Legendary Ravenloft R1. Why? Because people want to run R6+ for the massive XP boost you get for first-time reaper in Legendary quests. So realistically, if you want to run a Legendary quest you are forced to run it higher and higher reaper, if you want to group and if you solo you might be stuck running it EH. So think how absurd the power curve this exposes - you are either running it EH solo or you are running it R6+ in a group. And since the game provides no catch-up mechanism for players all the EE/R1 players are dependent on the core 2-3 players in high-reaper groups to carry them through quests so they can get some reaper xp. This gulf will be exasperated with the upcoming changes.

[Thar]

If they nerf or really touch reaper points in any significant way, it's likely that many of the people funding this game will leave.

All of the high reaper points players i know buy tons of boxes, box heroic and epic and mostly play at 28-30 with little time elsewhere at high reaper quests as they enjoy the challenge. Removing the reward will just make they leave. One guy paid over 30k. You don't think someone who has put years into that character to have it negated partially or more would say enough?

I'm a poor player and if they touch reaper along with everything else I will be done. and no you can't have my stuff. you don't put a system in place that players can't use. And the takeaways have been piling up too fast. it's almost not work farming for a new item. Next it won't be worth it or possible to farm reaper quests. TRs are next? people, stop envying what work others have done and do some yourself.

[Catabree]

Exactly. The argument "there are ten difficulty levels" is willfully ignorant of the realities of grouping. You cannot get a group for say Legendary Ravenloft R1. Why? Because people want to run R6+ for the massive XP boost you get for first-time reaper in Legendary quests. So realistically, if you want to run a Legendary quest you are forced to run it higher and higher reaper, if you want to group and if you solo you might be stuck running it EH. So think how absurd the power curve this exposes - you are either running it EH solo or you are running it R6+ in a group. And since the game provides no catch-up mechanism for players all the EE/R1 players are dependent on the core 2-3 players in high-reaper groups to carry them through quests so they can get some reaper xp. This gulf will be exasperated with the upcoming changes.

I will say this again, last time. If you cannot contribute on r6 even with vets players, being fully geared with little reaper points.
You will never be able to contribute in r10, ever. The simple fact is extra reaper points won't help your skills. This is a fact.
Get all the gear, raid items ect and see how you go. If you havent gotten that far, then there's probably no point in commenting as you wouldn't have the experience to make any valuable input. I've seen post like these go round and round. To be honest I can't believe the same people are still advocating their inability to contribute.

End of story, if you want to learn to be good, and improve and you're not finding that in your time zone on your server. Move servers. Not all servers are equal at all, miles off infact.

[Oliphant]

I will say this again, last time. If you cannot contribute on r6 even with vets players, being fully geared with little reaper points.
You will never be able to contribute in r10, ever. The simple fact is extra reaper points won't help your skills. This is a fact.
Get all the gear, raid items ect and see how you go. If you havent gotten that far, then there's probably no point in commenting as you wouldn't have the experience to make any valuable input. I've seen post like these go round and round. To be honest I can't believe the same people are still advocating their inability to contribute.

End of story, if you want to learn to be good, and improve and you're not finding that in your time zone on your server. Move servers. Not all servers are equal at all, miles off infact.

Learning best play in hard content with groups is 80% inspiration and 20% perspiration. Rather I mean, you learn by doing it (the 20% perspiration) and by having people explain what to do (the other 80% inspiration from others). 100% of it comes from the participating not beamed from the Godhead of the universe directly into your brain. You talk about people's skills like people are inherently ddo-skilled or something. A skill is something you can learn and you learn what R10 is about by climbing skull mountain.

But you knew that already.