U50 Preview 1: Endgame Itemization Adjustments

[Aelonwy]

a: We're going to apply a blanket debuff to monsters at cap that takes a chunk out of their AC.
b: We're exploring ways to safely globally adjust monster HP at cap downwards.

Thank you for posting a response to these issues.

Will you also be looking into social skill DCs, trap DCs, and rune/lever DCs?

[Triaxx2]

On the one hand, I find the WPM Auxiliaries slightly too tough, but on the other I LIKE that I haven't completed them on R1 plus even now. They're very tough, but not impossible, I just haven't solved them. That said, the griffin cleave is really annoying.

[rabidfox]

b: We're exploring ways to safely globally adjust monster HP at cap downwards.

Yay. My poor healer was taking hits all around on lam, at least this should help to keep killing at a better pace (hopefully closer to clear speeds I see on live); the outgoing heals hit is still gonna be felt but it gives me hope at least.

[Zretch]

Hi all! Happy Friday!
So please, if you have further feedback, absolutely feel free to share it here. Thanks for your patience as we work through this significant overhaul!

Are there any plans to open up Lamania for longer than 48 hours at a time?

[rabidfox]

Did anyone check (I totally forgot to), are diamonds of X stat staying the same? If so, the gap between +11 stat with lvl 24 diamonds and the new +13 stat on cap gear is very small and might get me to swap some setups around and the eat the 2 point stat difference if I can afford to.

[Firebreed]

Just to be clear, the Saltmarsh and S/S/S items will have the same numerical values on their effects as RL/Sharn/Feywild, correct?

You're literally saying so here:

"Content Pack Parity - This change will put all of the content packs at end game on the same item level scaling, which means that gear found within those content packs will be equally valuable numerically."

I want to believe that is the case, cause there's no way you're claiming these changes are done for the sake of parity only to introduce, in the same patch, new items that outperform 3 whole expansions worth of endgame items... right? Because that would be straight up lying.

Again, just making sure I understand correctly.

[Kielbasa]

Hi all! Happy Friday!
2: We're also going to adjust certain specific quests in Epic (such as Tower of Frost and the White Plume Mountain auxiliary dungeons) by drastically pulling down their scaling.

I hope you also intend to tweak Killing Time, Riding the Storm Out, and Too Hot To Handle at least on normal difficulties. With elemental absorb and resists scaling down as well as energy sheath becoming much less accessible by U51 those raids are going to become ridiculous for your average pug. There are probably some other instances of highly inflated elemental damage but those are the ones that come to mind first.

[LurkingVeteran]

Hi all! Happy Friday!

This has been a pretty wild series of previews but we wanted to take some time here and check in on a few things. These are in no particular order:

1: We are pretty confident that our changes are fair for DC casters but are not meeting the mark for those who actually deal damage - either via melee or ranged or by spellcasting. Melee/Ranged players specifically are also fighting against an old problem made new again, namely that our AC formulas climb much higher than our accuracy does. With that in mind, here's our tentative solution (although this is subject to change):

a: We're going to apply a blanket debuff to monsters at cap that takes a chunk out of their AC.
b: We're exploring ways to safely globally adjust monster HP at cap downwards.

Both of these exact solutions have numbers we're still noodling on, so please forgive us if we don't give you exact numbers until we're 100% confident on our end. We've gotten a ton of great feedback on the adjustments on the player end that we're still cataloging, and we're incredibly thankful that so many people took the time to test out their current loadout on Lamannia.

2: We're also going to adjust certain specific quests in Epic (such as Tower of Frost and the White Plume Mountain auxiliary dungeons) by drastically pulling down their scaling.

3: Now that all items are on a set scaling curve, we can also start doing something that I've been personally excited for: namely, doing across-the-board individual stat adjustments. What this means is that we're going to try adjusting the actual ratio of item power level to statistics, effectively adjusting all items that use that specific statistic without further intervention necessary on the part of the player. The two stats we're exploring this for are:

a: Raising the values of Spell Resistance found on items
b: Raising the values of Spell Penetration found on items

Why these stats specifically? Mostly because they're very binary and, due to how our monster CRs are calculated, could stand to be inflated slightly. As part of this overhaul, we may not actually be adjusting monster CRs, which means that the only way to adjust how players interact with this system is to adjust their SR and SP stats directly. And since we can now do per-stat adjustments... why not start here?

That's just about it for right now, but we're not done tinkering behind the scenes. So please, if you have further feedback, absolutely feel free to share it here. Thanks for your patience as we work through this significant overhaul!

Monster HD is actually supposed to roughly scale with party level in D&D. I don't know which legacy reason caused HD in epic hard+ and later content to be so crazily inflated, but if you are fine with smashing a few eggs, have you considered squeezing HD back to appropriate levels? That way you don't need a bazillion spell pen or spell resist, and player spells that act on HD actually start working again (dispels, maybe also still some DC spells).

[DarkSkysz]

One issue I find with Epic levels and their gear progress is that there is basically nothing to wear from 15 > 29. Sharn gear is basically the best stuff available once you hit level 15. We need more options. We have a few weapons from Loth, but not armors.

[Chacka_DDO]

One issue I find with Epic levels and their gear progress is that there is basically nothing to wear from 15 > 29. Sharn gear is basically the best stuff available once you hit level 15. We need more options. We have a few weapons from Loth, but not armors.

What DDO needs are maximum level items instead of minimum level items you can even keep the acronym but it would make a BIG difference...
You get an item with a maximum level of 15 and you can use this item already in level 1 and then it provides for example only 1 strength and in level 15 you can use the full potential of this item and it provides 8 strength (the item scales with your character level) and at level 15 you have to look out for a new item.
And if you have a maximum level of 30 items you are golden from 1-30.

There is nothing wrong with it in my opinion, in other games, you can also use the items you acquire the whole time, just in DDO you are suddenly not allowed to you your items anymore just only because you did a TR/ER.
With that, you have less need for inventory and bank space (you only need the maximum level 30 version of an item) and you have a much wider selection of items.
This is not the only change itemization in DDO needs in my opinion but I think this could be already a BIG improvement for players.

[Eme]

What DDO needs are maximum level items instead of minimum level items you can even keep the acronym but it would make a BIG difference...
You get an item with a maximum level of 15 and you can use this item already in level 1 and then it provides for example only 1 strength and in level 15 you can use the full potential of this item and it provides 8 strength (the item scales with your character level) and at level 15 you have to look out for a new item.
And if you have a maximum level of 30 items you are golden from 1-30..

this sounds confusing & headache inducing. Gear tetris is bad enough, this would be like gear tetris with an added level of algebra

[DRoark]

As always, we look forward to your feedback!

Have to laugh at that, input and feedback is something you get BEFORE you decide to code watered-down DDO2, then tell us after the ship has sailed, and hit an iceberg.

If the entire DDO population missed it, please point out the pre-programming discussion that said ANOTHER toggle, and a builder/spender clickfest would be a great plan.

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After looking at all this, there's one conclusion. I see nothing here that's going to replace even nerfed Sharn gear. BANE? Is this 2008?

Too many duplicate items, a 5-set non-specific bonus, stats that are irrelevant on half the gear. It's Gem Food with a touch of sad puppy.

Three levels of scaling, is an expensive way to get Whelm Munchies (TM). Can we just skip U50/51, before they murder the game entirely?

[Qlumsee]

a: We're going to apply a blanket debuff to monsters at cap that takes a chunk out of their AC.

Typical SSG and past incarnations. Rather than fix the problem, you come up with a work around. This has never been a good idea in the past and after 15 years I think you'd have learnt.

Still, I've been playing regularly for 15 years and I haven't learnt.

[Abilbo]

Any plan to adjust DC checks for social skills? Those seem to be the same. Not sure about traps though.

This is important. The new Feywild quests have some very high DC's for skills, which currently you won't make with the proposed changes. The quest Make Believe for example, to Diplo the guards in the tower, requires a 120 Diplo check to be no fail.

Will mobs now have lower Skill check requirements? For social skills.

[neain2008]

a: We're going to apply a blanket debuff to monsters at cap that takes a chunk out of their AC.
b: We're exploring ways to safely globally adjust monster HP at cap downwards.

This is why I'm worried. It is only mentioned that they are looking at mob HP at cap. While that definitely does need to be looked at, the little of the ED pass that we got to see is a fairly significant nerf to what's in place (even if the trees were kept as is but they added the level gating mechanics that they seem intent on adding). If the mob HP (and other stats) in all the quests leading up to cap doesn't change, we face the same challenge with weaker characters until we get to cap. Some people already have issues making the step from EH to EE, can't we at the least get that changed to be more linear from EN to EH to EE?

From some of the posts, the devs seem to be hinting that the epic ward might be going away but I don't think anyone has come out and said that it was. That would go a ways to making things work and be a smooth transition from heroics (where stat damage and a few neg levels stick around longer than a few seconds). But without doing a blanket adjustment (hp/saves/ac etc.) to the epic mobs that arent at cap you're going to continue making epics an epic slog.

[mr420247]

EE should be toned down for new players so they can evolve contribute

R1 - 10 should be harder for vets completionists

EE gianthold bosses should def be halved on hp those are the longest fights for the level

[rabidfox]

EE should be toned down for new players so they can evolve contribute

R1 - 10 should be harder for vets completionists

R1 shouldn't be made harder. I may run r10s but I've got guildmates that find r1s challenging already, I'd feel bad for them if they get harder to the point that they can't do them without someone to carry them thru it.

[mr420247]

I get what your saying meant that EE is going to be insanely hard for new players after all this and that should be a possible vs impossible always being carried by vets grind

[Stravix]

This is why I'm worried. It is only mentioned that they are looking at mob HP at cap. While that definitely does need to be looked at, the little of the ED pass that we got to see is a fairly significant nerf to what's in place (even if the trees were kept as is but they added the level gating mechanics that they seem intent on adding). If the mob HP (and other stats) in all the quests leading up to cap doesn't change, we face the same challenge with weaker characters until we get to cap. Some people already have issues making the step from EH to EE, can't we at the least get that changed to be more linear from EN to EH to EE?

From some of the posts, the devs seem to be hinting that the epic ward might be going away but I don't think anyone has come out and said that it was. That would go a ways to making things work and be a smooth transition from heroics (where stat damage and a few neg levels stick around longer than a few seconds). But without doing a blanket adjustment (hp/saves/ac etc.) to the epic mobs that arent at cap you're going to continue making epics an epic slog.

They said in the U51 stuff (the stuff you are referencing) that mob health at lower levels would be reduced then, by up to around 50%.

There is no need to nerf lvl 21 content, when nothing is happening to us in the lvl 21 range yet.

[Amastris]

I only read like 4 pages of this thread so someone may have mentioned this already.

1) there was a reason Cannith crafted gear was "filler" gear and considered inferior to set gear, because its rather easy to craft and acquire, where as named set gear, not as easy due to drop rates. so having named gear be on the same level as cannith is well highly insulting to me and i am sure other players as well who have spent time and Astral shards to reroll a chest to get a named item to fit into endgame gear. Yeah power creep i get it most mmo's have it but at least leave the named gear, not just raid gear, somewhat better than cannith gear beyond just giving a set bonus.

2) Normalizing the gear doesnt help the real issue at hand and that is properly gearing from 20 to 29. lets get real for a minute, beyond KotB gear most of the gear is junk, Catacombs gear is mostly gem fodder and doesnt have any set bonuses. Delera's gear is mostly gem fodder with no set bonus. GH gear gem fodder, all of it. 3bc now that all gear no longer drops with augments has relegated most of this gear to gem fodder too esp since none of the items were adjusted to re-include the what was lost from the augments. so that leaves players 2 options, 1 stay in level 15/17 gear until level 29 and go from sharn sets to end game build gear. or 2 cannith craft something that might get you through to 29. I have a level 27 tanking warlock that is still all in level 15/17 gear. im not changing out of it and losing my set bonuses just to have cannith gear. cannith gear doesnt compensate for the loss. im not better off in cannith gear. Changing the s/s/s system isnt really going to help in this department either because its set at level 20 and not mid epics where a bolstering is really needed.

3)disparity between content. from level 22 to level 29 there are 81 quests, level 30-32 there are 106 quests and 9 more planned with saltmarsh so 115 in all soon. 22/23 - 29 is a literal grind of doing "dailies." its like beating your head against the wall out of bordem. "oh let me go run blah blah blah again today because there's only a certain number of quests that give reasonable epic xp. then eventually as you level up and consistently run the same quests like spies in the house and wiz-king the optionals lose xp values and become worthless with little to no xp granted. Taking the Sharn city, cogs and sharn docks model and apply it to mid epics where we could have great xp and some sort of set gear and have the content spread over say level 23 to 27 on elite. Have the set gear be ml 25 though. there should be something enticing for players to go from 20-29 beyond just doing "dailies"

if SSG wants to make smooth leveling im all for that. if then want to normalize gear, fine. but analyze is running the same quests for 4-7 days really smooth leveling especially in conjunction with the forthcoming ED level gating changes. with all the major changes due to happen i think the grind is going to be worse.