U50 Preview 1: Endgame Itemization Adjustments

[Hawkwier]

Note the full fort bypass is only on a roll of 20, so its ****.

Yes. This is rubbish. Makes keen mostly useless as often the expanded crit range is picked up from IC anyway.

Accepting at face value that the +W change is needed in the bigger picture rebalancing, can please have something more useful than a bypass that most will have had to build for anyway, as otherwise relying on a 1 in 20 chance is wholly insufficient? Something small but useful maybe like +5 to hit or a flat 5MP would be better.

[Aelonwy]

So the money I spent on raid timers for Suulo Tail, and Dryad axes was a waste. I guess the chest rerolls for new gear sets for each expansion was a waste of money also. I get why this is being done, but it does go to erode consumer confidence. Do set bonuses get nerfed also? How about the new artifact augments?

Unless I missed something in the release notes about a complete overhaul of all items not just legendary, does that make DoJ/MoD gear best in slot now? Neither of those are lvl 31, or considered legendary. With monster warding removed will TF mortal fear be a thing again?

I tried to warn people with the nerf of the RL belts which incidentally also nerfed LGS spell power, that it didn't matter if you spent shards or raid bypass timers to get your gear... that nerf proved we don't own our gear, none of us own anything no matter what is paid to acquire it. They can nerf it, change it completely, make it a waste of space and time. It was a bad precedent to set. And some people still applauded.

[Kielbasa]

It looks like all set bonuses are being tweaked for legendary gear now for example double strike/shot is 15, melee/ranged power is 15, and armor pen is 30 compared to what we now have on live. After the changes some set bonuses are still terrible. The Legendary Knight of the Shadows set bonus needs a fourth unique affix and threat gen across ravenloft, sharn, and feywild to be standardized. Suggestions for KoS set bonus could be more AC and arrow deflection. So you have a set focused on physical damage, one on elemental damage and one all around tank set. One set that still sucks is the Legendary Crypt Raider set please give it a bit more pop. I know it has the Bloodrage Chrism as part of the set but that's no excuse for the set bonus to be terrible.

[LittleLexi]

Will you be refunding 41% of my price paid for these content packs as now the gear is only 13/22th as good as it was? what would be the point in buying sharn or feywild if the items were not better. bait and switch. seems slightly illegal.

This is beyond frivolous. If you want a refund— please make sure they take away any favor, xp, gear, and expansion goodies you got along the way. That doesn't even take into account the quests and wilderness zones you've been reveling in; including with the aforementioned over-tuned items.

To call this illegal shows gross misunderstanding of how video games work(and have worked for eons). Clearly you didn't read, nor understand the ToS. You don't own this content, the way you seem to believe. Nor the inalienable freedom to have it remain as you purchased it indefinitely. Developers have the right to make adjustments(as they should do).

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I think these are positive changes and overdue— provided that they are being done for the right reasons, and as long as they will be applied consistently. Having gear closer in power level should hopefully allow for newer gear to be more flavorful, as well offer up much more variety. Or even specialization— in some cases.

[Merrillman]

I tried to warn people with the nerf of the RL belts which incidentally also nerfed LGS spell power, that it didn't matter if you spent shards or raid bypass timers to get your gear... that nerf proved we don't own our gear, none of us own anything no matter what is paid to acquire it. They can nerf it, change it completely, make it a waste of space and time. It was a bad precedent to set. And some people still applauded.

Could not have said it better. I have never been this vocal about anything. I feel like these people are kicking you in the face (metaphorically) for your loyalty and you’re screaming “Stop! Please stop!” And then they take out the bats and chains and beat you some more for being stupid enough to believe the money you spent — and I have spent A LOT — actually counts for something. We BUY things based on what we see. When you “take it all back” the trust is destroyed. NEVER TAKE AWAY. Only give more for your money. If I did what these people do to my clients — hey man, I know you bought 100 shares of Tesla, but you know, we have to balance it no matter what you bought and no matter what you want to do, and now we’re only gonna give you 80 shares, and oh by the way, it’s gonna cost you 50% more every time you want to trade — I’d be driven out of the securities industry for breaching my fiduciary duty

This is nonsense.

[Zafaron]

I noticed my stats had dropped more than expected based on the equipment changes with update 50. Also some enhancements appeared to not be working. Do you know if it will require a full reset of enhancements before the enhancements work?

[Aelonwy]

To call this illegal shows gross misunderstanding of how video games work(and have worked for eons). Clearly you didn't read, nor understand the ToS. You don't own this content, the way you seem to believe. Nor the inalienable freedom to have it remain as you purchased it indefinitely. Developers have the right to make adjustments(as they should do).

This is true. But the greater lesson here is that people need to STOP purchasing content just for access to gear. People need to STOP purchasing raid bypass timers. People need to STOP astral shard rerolling chests. Its a complete waste of money and effort because its been clearly demonstrated there is a willingness to nerf what you paid (sometimes twice) to acquire into near obsolescence.

So stop people. Buy the content if you are going to enjoy those adventures but don't spend twice (content price + astral shard reroll or bypass timer). Its not worth it.

[redoubt]

You should be forewarned its going to erode player and purchasing trust. If people can't trust that what they are purchasing is going to be kept in good faith... there will be a reduction in sales.

Over the last year my every update has directly nerfed my main character. I move to something else and the next update nerfs it again.

I have already skipped two $200 point purchases. One in the fall and one in the spring. (There is usually a sale in that approximate time frame and I buy point then.) I've actually cleared out all my old 20% and 30% xp potions. Down to just a handful of 50s left. Down to 100% slayer boosts and lower. All because SSG has put me in a position where I don't trust buying from them at this time.

[Malusny]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Solution Part 2: Monster Power

We have been increasing the power level of monsters found at the level cap as the power level of items increased over time, and since we are adjusting these items downwards, we will be adjusting monsters downwards to match. The most notable change with this system is the removal of the Legendary Tier system as it relates to monsters. A monster at end game will ideally be just as difficult no matter which dungeon it is found in. The removal of the Legendary Tier system will represent a significant reduction in the offensive and defensive statistics of monsters found at the level cap, which means that monsters will be much weaker than they were before. We are also removing the Epic and Hard Saves boost found on all Monsters across our Epic content.

Given that each monster in our game has different stats and therefore a different starting point, it is hard for us to tell you exactly where each number will end up, but we can give out some comparisons to help demonstrate how dramatic this change will be. For example, Monsters across all of Epics will have 6 fewer Saving Throws, and Monsters at Endgame specifically will instead have 16 fewer saves. This also does not include our current planned removal of Epic Resilience, which will remove an additional 6 saving throws, for a total reduction of 22.

Monsters will not just be losing saving throws. The Legendary Tier II buff corresponded to 150% Fortification Bypass, 60 Attack Bonus, and 10 Spell Penetration, as well as a whole host of other offensive and defensive buffs designed to make them hit harder and take more hits. We hope that our monster rescaling ends up making content feel more realistic and more accessible, and are able to do more adjustments if necessary.

Ok, so my question is: You are adjusting the stats down a lot, so you do lower the monsters but you don't lower the monsters stats all across the board. You talk about monster's Saves, fort bypass , atk bonus etc but nothing about their stats affecting their actual hit points or their own fortification.
How it will affect the game play is that the players with instant kill ability will kill the mobs effectively however the melee builds that have to deal a specific amount of damage will be hitting less hard in general thus killing monsters will take more time than before. Are you going to do something to the monster's armor class / hit points/ their fortification values???

Cheers.

[macubrae]

I don't think they can ... WotC has a new DnD PC game coming out this year ... They appear to be moving on.

All D&D content requires licensing from WotC, while original storylines do not. Dark Alliance is a classic game I had on my old Xbox and is not an MMO. The main thing stopping WotC is DDO isn't 5e, but it may increase awareness that DDO is still alive and kicking with a lot of content.

[Taraborn]

How will this effect the raid loot whose ML was dropped a few years ago? Will there new stats be based on there current ML, or there former one? This could have some weird effects on the Schism Shard upgraded weapons, there ML's drop from 29 to 28 when they are upgraded.

[IBCrabin]

I tried to warn people with the nerf of the RL belts which incidentally also nerfed LGS spell power, that it didn't matter if you spent shards or raid bypass timers to get your gear... that nerf proved we don't own our gear, none of us own anything no matter what is paid to acquire it. They can nerf it, change it completely, make it a waste of space and time. It was a bad precedent to set. And some people still applauded.

I don't have a problem with the adjustment to itemization because they will readjust the content. People were complaining about the power creep every update since legendary(?), if not legendary at least ravenloft. Whether people spend money or not, they have the equipment and is still better than random gen / cannith crafted with their own unique combination of modifiers.

My issue is they sold the content on the premise of power creep needing to be better than the last few update till feywild - can't remember which dev I read that from but would have been Sharn lam preview, and then adjusted all the old epic gear with inflated stat and reduce level only to backtrack on the changes. Now the gear of the same level will all have the same stat. feel like a waste of time for the players and the Dev making those original changes.

If anything, they should lower the level of Ravenloft with reduce stat so people can use them at lvl 26 or something.

[DRoark]

They need a testing period of about 6 months, with full numbers posted, on every possible build variant,
before the hard drive the patch is on even enters the same State the servers are located in. Seriously.

They have to adjust every piece of loot in the game, every monster, the DCs on every skill check (including locks, Cha interactions,
STR levers, etc), do a full augment revamp, test a TRIPLE-scaling crafting system for the new items, nerf the (+W) on our weapons,
actually figure out how to update cache items (unlike the augment fiasco), and figure out how to buy a new player base.

This, from a group that still hasn't fixed the Purity filigree bonus from THREE YEARS AGO. We're not holding our breath.

[Avocado]

Is mob ac being adjusted at all? To hit became more important last update with the performance changes because active abilities dont get that extra chance to do whatever because of doublestrike. So you basically have enough to hit to not graze or you just suck and miss 30% of your attacks. With the nerf to accuracy items I am worried that we might start grazing on like 10s now with current ac of some endgame reaper mobs. That's awful and should be addressed.

Some things that I do not like:
Unified 29 gear makes gear tetris worse - gear tetirs is a game in itself. One that takes far too much time.
Reaper points become even more powerful via hp bonuses. Everyone is getting an hp nerf next update but the more reaper ap you have the less percentage hp you lose in total.
Past lives, specifically epic ones, are even more powerful. People with already high prr/ac lose less total damage reduction then those that had already kinda low prr. 200-175 for maybe a no epl rogue. 500 down to 475 for a tank.


People toting these changes help new players and shrink the player gap. I fail to see this. These changes makes the difference between new players and uber completionists even more pronounced.

[Craiggerz]

As a player for more than 14 years I finally found a thread worth commenting on.

I can't wait for the next two upcoming updates and hope for more full blown balancing in the future. Make the game hard and challenging again like it used to be before when max stats were +7 after collecting S/S/S for Epic Items that dropped rarely and were actually earned by raiding, without bypass timers, exploits galore, chest reroll, elixirs of discovery, and countless other ways to boost your loot drop rates.

The old timers ( myself and many others )were running Epic quests at level 20 without all the tomes, gear, epic destinies, and other power creep available to everyone today and you need epic destinies to complete the same quests that had been done for years without all of those benefits that have been added. That just saddens me to no end. DDO is easier than ever its about time it gets a little harder again. There are plenty of easy MMORPG out there to play.

With 8 servers and over 300 cap characters covering most every class, race, and configuration imaginable this update will cause me to re-engage DDO. No I don't reincarnate I delete and start my characters over. No past lives required. I have a few with epic past lives but that is it and I have no fear of stepping into any quest on any difficultly at this time using any class. The biggest obstacle I have seen most players old and new face is I can't.

As far as the rest of the end game raiding scene currently it has been completed, conquered, and destroyed at an alarming rate. Any new content released without the upcoming adjustments will simply be ensure that the new content is only invalidated more quickly than ever before by the same players and more over and over again.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisp...4-Achievements -- just take a look at the posted achievements this clearly does not cover all the completions that have been done.

I am pretty sure there was a list of all the Legendary Raids completed on R10 but no luck finding it but suffice it to say I am pretty sure they have all been conquered some have even been done solo.

No one likes change but this change I am fully behind and it has been a long time coming. It's strange to me how many people have called for an end to the power creep on the forums and when SSG finds the courage to do so some of those same people pull out the torches and pitchforks and become an unruly mob ready to criticize instead of critique.

There will undoubtedly be problems and corrections and adjustments along the way but that is always the case when something that has needed to be done for a long time is done.

Many thanks to the Dev Team for finding the courage to step up and get it done.

[Malusny]

I have tested a melee build in a low reaper quest and I must say that I am a bit disappointed!!!

Not about the nerf itself but because the monsters don't have their AC/HP/FORT lowered accordingly.

The significant problem is that now there isn't enough accuracy "to hit" to have relative dps values. What I mean is that sure, the mobs have lower saves, great, some lower stats - great but I cannot hit them anymore because I graze 2x more often...

Hopefully you can do something about it please , before this goes live.

Cheers

[IBCrabin]

Is mob ac being adjusted at all? To hit became more important last update with the performance changes because active abilities dont get that extra chance to do whatever because of doublestrike. So you basically have enough to hit to not graze or you just suck and miss 30% of your attacks. With the nerf to accuracy items I am worried that we might start grazing on like 10s now with current ac of some endgame reaper mobs. That's awful and should be addressed.

Some things that I do not like:
Unified 29 gear makes gear tetris worse - gear tetirs is a game in itself. One that takes far too much time.
Reaper points become even more powerful via hp bonuses. Everyone is getting an hp nerf next update but the more reaper ap you have the less percentage hp you lose in total.
Past lives, specifically epic ones, are even more powerful. People with already high prr/ac lose less total damage reduction then those that had already kinda low prr. 200-175 for maybe a no epl rogue. 500 down to 475 for a tank.


People toting these changes help new players and shrink the player gap. I fail to see this. These changes makes the difference between new players and uber completionists even more pronounced.

For purpose of discussion,

First life toon didn't have much problem with RL failing saves and grazing hits from AC when they were well geared at the time of Ravenloft Release.

Assuming RL and sharn mob has the same stat and the only different is the T1 and T2 ward, then removing both ward should make the content easier and the different between new players and old players with past lives wouldn't be as pronounced.

[Avocado]

For purpose of discussion,

First life toon didn't have much problem with RL failing saves and grazing hits from AC when they were well geared at the time of Ravenloft Release.

Assuming RL and sharn mob has the same stat and the only different is the T1 and T2 ward, then removing both ward should make the content easier and the different between new players and old players with past lives wouldn't be as pronounced.

Its mostly sharn and higher. The dcs, ac, fortification, and saves of all sharn mobs in reaper are significantly higher then RL. When sharn came out it was near impossible to sneak attack damage mobs in reaper because of their fort. Like the poster above you, it seems fortification and ac have not been adjusted. Melee builds get screwed, rogues are utter trash again (half of their dps is SA), and everyone goes back to just playing dc instakillers because its only thing able to kill anything in a timely fashion. Gross hyberpole aside, I want to devs to comment on whether they think the mob metrics mentioned prior are at levels that are in line with what they want. Clearly the adjustment to sharn mobs was to counter act the gross power creep from RL to sharn. SO if that still holds true and all level 29 gear is the same power, then the mobs in newer content need to be adjusted down.
House j and devils gambit chain have notoriously low mob metrics making them very easy. It would be nice with this change if all level 30 quests had the same general mob metrics. Some of the sharn stuff is level 32 and so the mobs should generally be have slightly better metrics then the level 30 content (like devils gambit), but not to the degree of current live. Level 32 quest mobs shouldnt have grossly inflated metrics compared to level 30 quest.

[GeoffWatson]

I tried to warn people with the nerf of the RL belts which incidentally also nerfed LGS spell power, that it didn't matter if you spent shards or raid bypass timers to get your gear... that nerf proved we don't own our gear, none of us own anything no matter what is paid to acquire it. They can nerf it, change it completely, make it a waste of space and time. It was a bad precedent to set. And some people still applauded.

It was obvious that the LGS spell power was an accident, but it was amazing how long it took them to fix it. I guess they were too afraid to admit a mistake, and even double-downed on it with the Ravenloft belts. They should have fixed it in the first patch after LShroud, not years later.

[IBCrabin]

Its mostly sharn and higher. The dcs, ac, fortification, and saves of all sharn mobs in reaper are significantly higher then RL. When sharn came out it was near impossible to sneak attack damage mobs in reaper because of their fort. Like the poster above you, it seems fortification and ac have not been adjusted. Melee builds get screwed, rogues are utter trash again (half of their dps is SA), and everyone goes back to just playing dc instakillers because its only thing able to kill anything in a timely fashion. Gross hyberpole aside, I want to devs to comment on whether they think the mob metrics mentioned prior are at levels that are in line with what they want. Clearly the adjustment to sharn mobs was to counter act the gross power creep from RL to sharn. SO if that still holds true and all level 29 gear is the same power, then the mobs in newer content need to be adjusted down.

This being said, i wonder if mobs are being adjusted to be the same across all level 30+ content. House j and devils gambit chain have notoriously low mob metrics making them very easy. It would be nice with this change if all level 30 quests had the same general mob metrics. Some of the sharn stuff is level 32 and so the mobs should generally be have slightly better metrics then the level 30 content (like devils gambit), but not to the degree of current live. Level 32 quest mobs shouldnt have grossly inflated metrics compared to level 30 quest.

Yea, that was my gripe with sharn and post content because the legendary Tier 2 scaling was over the top and made toons quite useless without the PLs, decked out gear and tomes. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt because RL is T1 scaling and First life toons did fine in them vs sharn and post content with legendary Tier 2. Getting rid of both scaling as they said they are doing should bring both content back to normalcy after reducing the gear. Can't say the same about reaper. Seem like there is some problem with reaper from post above.