U50 Preview 1: New Universal Enhancement Tree: Horizon Walker

[anticlimax]

Here's my thoughts:

I'm not surprised that the devs wanted to create separation between the bow pass and introduction of Horizon Walker, as there is some very synergistic gains to be had that of course are entirely coincidental. Bows had their attack speed nerfed. Effectiveness was stripped out of ManyShot by changing the way it functions and removing the power bonus. The amount of charges the basic ManyShot has left it as a momentary burst but now, with the HW capstone it can be used as a full fledged burst, giving approximately the same amount of extra arrows as ManyShot used to, and making up for the attack speed and power loss with half the time to replenish the bursts full charge. It is what it is, and not all bad since you can stop bursting early if you want to now.

Then there is ScatterShot. I like the look of this, but I question whether it is appropriate for a single target focused tree. It would be far more appropriate as a feat with the same pre-requisites as ManyShot. I'd take it in a heartbeat, and I'd still take ManyShot. ScatterShot first for sure because bows are starved for AoE at earlier levels.

I think the target marking mechanic will be cumbersome and ultimately self defeating. Why not just make all the bonuses apply to the first target hit, or only when AF is active. If someone really is running a single target build they will use AF and be hitting their targeted mob anyway, the extra step is just unnecessary.

And of course I'm joining in on the Archers Focus pile-on: it sucks. The need to not move for 6 seconds before it starts to stack is punishing, it should be able to stack as soon as the player becomes stationary. This would go some way to eliminate the need of an active builder attack, making the stance useful for anyone who has access to it rather than whoever randomly gets an active builder. The other problem with AF is something that other builder abilities suffer from: they are all or nothing. A player can either easily stack them to max or they find it impossible to stack them at all. The way builders need to function is to have a longer duration at lower stacks, for example Archers Focus could have 3 times the duration when stacks are at 5 or less, and 2 times the duration when stacks are at 6-10. Just an example but that would go a long way to making AF good without making it stacked to max permanently. Another thing about builders: why do they reset at shrines? They don't need to IMO.

Oh and one last thing just to prove how far I've gone to try to make AF work... If Misty Step is just a repackaged Abundant Step then it can be used to move without moving, thus not interrupting AF stacking. A little pressie there for my fellow archers

All in all it's not really a tree for me (IPS4life) but if ScatterShot remains in the tree I might get it further down the line, grudgingly, when I don't have to fork out for a 'mini expansion' just to experiment with it.

I hope my feedback isn't too snarky, I don't tend to sugar coat things.

[Duhboy]

Hey, everyone! Thanks for the great feedback on Horizon Walker in Preview 1.

Overall, a lot of you seemed to like the tree conceptually but had concerns about the overall power level of the tree (too low) and concerns about the usefulness of specific skills. Let's talk about a few of those concerns and ways we're looking to address them for Preview 2! (As always, this may change before Preview 2. In fact, some of it will almost definitely change before Preview 2. But we wanted to show you some plans ahead of time!)

The overall power level of the tree is going up. Damage numbers in most places are either getting larger or scaling better.

The Marked Target debuffs in the Cores felt low to a lot of you, and we're bringing the numbers on the Fortification, AC, and Movement Speed penalties up. Saves is staying where it is for now, we want to look at it again in Preview 2.

Some of you felt the Cores in general were a little low in power, as they largely only boosted the Mark; we're planning on adding a few things:
Core 2 will also give +3 Max Dex Bonus in Light Armor (Planar Dodge has moved to Tier 1 and no longer contains this bonus, simply 1/2/3% Dodge)
Core 3 will also grant a Haste SLA! Haste is a spell Horizon Walkers get in pen and paper, and we felt it fit well with the movement theme. (Expect to see more specific stats on much of this in Preview 2, assuming it's still there by then).
Core 4 will tentatively grant Max Dodge, but we're still debating how much.
Core 6 is... tentatively very going to be powerful, going to hold off on talking about it as we're still debating whether or not to keep this new version.

Other than the reduction of movement speed this ability still feels kinda meh. It would be nice to add a reduction to PRR and/or MRR aswell as having it be able to stack from multiple Marked Target sources. I do like how they added a spell from P&P HW here (haste) but I wonder why not add another spell from pen and paper that HW get that fits the theme of dealing with extraplanar creatures like HW does like banishment or at the very least dismissal? Now in terms of adding max dodge to core 4, I highly doubt it's going to be a BIG increase and something more like adding +5 to your max dodge which is meh. I suggest replacing it with something more reliable like Spectral Defense which is an ability that HW gets in pen and paper that is uncanny dodge that rogues, barbs, etc get.

Some of you were concerned about non-ranged characters having enough to spend on to get No Step Missed in Tier 3. After talking with the team, we've decided to leave No Step Missed where it is; there may be another tree in the future more suited to melees with a Dex trance in it. That said, we have made some adjustments to Tier 1 and 2 that may make it a bit easier for non-ranged builds to feel good about their points spent to reach No Step Missed.

Doesn't surprise me here.

Some of you were concerned about Take the Opening not feeling rewarding enough for landing that opening shot. We've increased its bonus damage to 1d10 Force damage per Character Level, and its scaling to 200% Ranged Power.

Neat.

A few of you mentioned wanting connections to Archer's Focus in here: While it still requires standing still, we're planning a Tier 3 ability that would grant you extra stacks.

Let me take a guess. Aimed Shot from DWS.

Walker's Guidance felt underpowered to a few of you; we've moved it down to Tier 4, and have changed it to grant you and targeted ally Evasion, Improved Evasion and +5 to Saving Throws vs. Traps for 12 seconds.

A few of us is an understatement when everybody is questioning the value of this ability. You're going to more than likely be playing a character that has evasion aswell has having high reflex anyways making this ability rather trivial. This ability is also dependent on your ally's currently equipped armor to make it a benefit to him/her. It maybe neat to have for an ally to get past a trap if you don't mind waiting for your ally to unequip and re-equip their heavier armor but it may become more of a hindrance if there are multiple traps especially one after the other. And if that's the case then you're better off just getting a trapper. So with that said, I suggest removing it all together and having something different in it's place.

Quite a few of you were unsure about tumbling frequently for Dodge and Strike; we've doubled its power and moved it up, resulting in a new skill in Tier 5: Planar Power: When you tumble or use Misty Step, you gain Ranged Power equal to your Character Level for 12 seconds. 12 second cooldown.

Neat.

Speaking of Misty Step, using it will also grant Reflex Saves and Incorporeality during the step, allowing it to be used to more easily get through dangerous situations.

I like it but how about making it so you phase pass enemies when you use it?

[Sylveny]

I resume the things I would change on this tree here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Adjusted some damage dice, changed some abilities places and put up two new ones (Dimensional Arrows and Marked focus), maybe something like this would be nice

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Here's your first look at Horizon Walker, a Universal enhancement tree currently slated for Update 50. Horizon Walker has popped up in a couple of editions of D&D at this point, as a variant option in 3.5e and a Ranger path in 5e. In this adaptation, the Horizon Walker is a hunter that traverses planes, hunting extraplanar enemies with a Bow. They are rugged adventurers, prepared for any kind of danger on any number of planes, and are attuned enough to Planes that they can occasionally manipulate planar alignments to avoid danger.

Focuses of this tree include:

• Single-Target Bow Damage
• Dexterity
• Avoidance defenses (dodge, incorp, etc)

Marking a Target:
The first Core in this tree works a bit like Assassin's trick; it's an Active ability that leaves an effect on your targeted enemy, and after that the things that affect Marked Targets work on that enemy. Using Marked Target on another enemy while you have an existing, living Marked Target will clear it from them. Using Improved Precise Shot and hitting other enemies before/after your Marked Target on the Bow attacks will do the attack's weapon damage to other enemies, and only do the Marked Target effects to your Marked Target (assuming they're hit by the attack).


Cores

1. Mark Target: +1 to Spot and Listen. You gain the ability to Mark one target at a time. Targets you Mark have -2 AC. (Debuffs to Marked Targets from these Core abilites do not stack with other players' Marks - Only the highest set of debuffs will apply.) Cooldown: 4 Seconds. (1AP)
2. Improved Marking: Your Marked Targets get -5% Fortification. The AC penalty your Marked Targets take increases to -4. (1AP)
3. Greater Marking: Your Marked Targets get -2 to Saving Throws. Their Fortification penalty increases to -10%, and AC penalty increases to -6. (1AP)
4. Dauntless Marking: Your Marked Target's Saving Throw penalty increases to -4, Fortification penalty increases to -20%, and AC penalty increases to -8. (1AP)
5. Dimension Door: Once per rest, you can cast Dimension Door. Activation Cost: 0 Spell Points. Cooldown: 10 Minutes. Passive: Your Marked Targets get -10% to movement speed. (1AP)
6. Horizon: +2 to all Ability Scores. You gain +10 Ranged Power, +10% Doubleshot. +2 Maximum Manyshot charges. (1AP)

Tier 1

• Weathered Gear: You have a 25/50/75% chance to negate potential item wear. (1AP/Rank)
• Opening Shot: +1/2/3[w] Bow Attack. Adds 1/2/3d6 Force damage on hit. This damage scales with Ranged Power. Cooldown: 6 seconds. (1AP/Rank)
• Eye for Accuracy: +1/2/3 to Attack with Weapons.
• Skills: +1/2/3 to Spot, Listen, and Search. (1AP/Rank)
• Conjure Arrow: SLA, as in AA tree (2AP)

Tier 2

• Walker Training I: +1 to Attack and +1 to Damage with Longbows and Shortbows. (1AP)
• Take the Opening: If Opening Shot hits a creature that is at 100% of their hitpoints, it deals an extra 1d10 Force damage for every 2 Character levels you have. This damage scales with Ranged Power. Additionally, your Force damage from Opening Shot is now applied twice when used against Marked Targets. (2AP)
• Skilled Navigator: +2/4/6 to Saving Throws vs. Traps (1AP/Rank)
• Dodge and Strike: When you tumble, you gain Ranged Power equal to half your Character level for 12 seconds. This can trigger once every 30 seconds. (1 AP)
• Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider Feat (1AP)

Tier 3

• No Step Missed: Battle Trance. Cooldown: 20 Seconds. Antirequisite: Other Trances. Charges: 5. Expend 1 Charge: You gain an Insight bonus to damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to 1/2 of your Dexterity modifier for [30/60/120] seconds. On a Vorpal weapon hit, have a chance to restore 1 Charge. (1AP/Rank)
• Two Places At Once: When you use Manyshot or Scattershot, you gain Displacement for 12 seconds. (2AP)
• Nowhere to Hide: You automatically detect nearby Secret Doors with a DC of 5 or less. This goes up by 3 for every 2 Character levels you have. (1AP)
• Planar Dodge: +1/2/3 to Dodge, +1/2/3 Maximum Dexterity while wearing light armor. (1AP/Rank)
• Ability Score: Multiselector
  
  • Dexterity: +1 Dexterity (2AP)
  • Wisdom: +1 Wisdom (2AP)

Tier 4

• Walker Training II: +1 to Attack and +1 to Damage with Longbows and Shortbows. (1AP)
• Corner the Quarry: +2/3/4[w] Bow Attack. If this is used against your Marked Target, they must make a Reflex Save (d20+your Listen skill) or be immobilized for 12 seconds. On a Vorpal hit, the target is also Stunned with no save (20sec cooldown). On bosses, this does not immobilize or stun. (1AP/Rank)
• Tenacious Hunter: Against Extraplanar creatures and Marked Targets (regardless of whether or not they are extraplanar), you deal an additional +2/4/6 damage with Longbows and Shortbows. (1AP/Rank)
• Scattershot: Ranged Bow Attack: Expend one charge to randomly select up to three different enemies at close range and shoot one arro at each of them. Each of these shots can Doubleshot. 2 second cooldown. This feat gives 3 charges, you regain 1 charge every 12 seconds you don't use Scattershot or Manyshot. (Requires a Longbow or Shortbow to use). Shares Charges and a Cooldown with Manyshot.(2AP)
• Ability Score: Multiselector
  
  • Dexterity: +1 Dexterity (2AP)
  • Wisdom: +1 Wisdom (2AP)

Tier 5

• Walker's Guidance: You and targeted ally gain Evasion and +5 to Saving Throws vs. Traps for 12 seconds. 60 second cooldown. (1AP)
• Banish the Quarry: If Corner the Quarry is used against a Marked Target, they take an additional 1d6 Force Damage per Character Level. This damage scales with Ranged Power. If the creature is Extraplanar, it must make a Will Save (d20+your Listen skill) or be Banished. (Bosses cannot be banished). (1AP)
• Feywild Attunement: +1 Competence Bonus to Threat Range and Multiplier with Longbows and Shortbows. (1AP)
• Misty Step: As Abundant Step, but you disappear. (Shares a cooldown with other abundant steps). (1AP)
• Improved Archer's Focus (as in Deepwood): Your Archer's Focus stance can now stack up to 25 times instead of 15. Passive: +10% Doubleshot. (2AP)

A few notes:

• "Bow Attacks" in this tree require a Shortbow or Longbow.
• It is fairly intended that a non-bow user could get some good use out of this tree.
• Worth noting that anyone gaining Evasion from Walker's Guidance still has to follow Evasion rules (no med/heavy armor, etc) for Evasion to work.

Known Issues

• Mark Target doesn't show anything over the targets head yet and we are going to fix that
• Mark Target is slower than we want it to be right now and we are going to fix that

Please consider modifying this tree enough to have it give melee players some use, just have enough universally useful stuff early in the tiers and then add the option for dexterity to hit and damage that would work with melee weapons.

[GeoffWatson]

Why is it called "Horizon Walker"?
The only thing it has in common with the original is that they are intended for Rangers.

[Nugaot]

Please consider modifying this tree enough to have it give melee players some use, just have enough universally useful stuff early in the tiers and then add the option for dexterity to hit and damage that would work with melee weapons.

You could consider making Opening Shot a multiselector with a melee Opening Strike scaling on melee power.

FE: evil outsider could be changed to a multiselector as well, choosing one of the 4 types of outsiders.

I still find walker’s guidance to be a strange ability, granting evasion to another player seems only useful to a small number of potential party members. Consider replacing with Improved Uncanny Dodge like in inquisitive T5. Standing still can be a death sentence, granting 50% dodge would make Archer’s Focus more useable.

[Zafaron]

Seems like the AC penalty would have to be significantly higher to be useful. Even with +200 to hit you still see 20%+ glancing hits. Maybe like -80 AC instead of -8?

Tumble to gain ranged power? Ugh

No step missed is amazing and will make some thrower builds super happy.



I think the tree is okay, but the cores are pretty underwhelming. Maybe consolidate a couple of the extra stuff on marks and add in a couple +stat gain similar to most of the other trees?

[Kmnh]

Can we please change Take The Opening to reward ranged players for hitting enemies that are already under crowd control or aggroed to someone else, instead of rewarding the first shot (aka aggroing the mobs from far away and making it harder to land CC)?

[FixBows]

I see they are moving full speed ahead with a tree no one wants. Single target dps with a boat load of annoying things like tumbling and marking targets. Seems about right.

How about a tree that archers DO want. Something that helps IPS and damage without having to jump through hoops to get there.

[Tobril]

Something that would be quite useful for any ranged character that has been somewhat overlooked, threat reduction.

There's little gear and no filigree support compared to melee.

(I'm not suggesting diplomacy like the inquisitive...that implementation was more problematic than helpful)

A good place would be at a low tier to help accommodate every ranged style. It could even be universal threat reduction to give something attractive for melee on the way up to the trance.

[Bacon_Burger]

Why is it called "Horizon Walker"?
The only thing it has in common with the original is that they are intended for Rangers.

Because SSG thinks they know D&D translation better than we do.

SS even said so in my thread.

HW is a fail.

[Havocthedemon]

Why is it called "Horizon Walker"?
The only thing it has in common with the original is that they are intended for Rangers.

That’s…a fair question. I mean the tree isn’t quite bad..though it’s definitely not good..thematically..yeah bit of a fail. Maybe if you cosplay while playing the game you’ll get some flavor?

[DRoark]

Well, if any Flat-Earthers needed proof, this is it. The HW fell off the Horizon.

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The cores are so horrible, and the tree full of low-value fluff, you'd have to get drunk to spend a point in this.

Staged Marking debuffs? Minus FIVE fortification? A 10-minute DD? Listen-based DCs? Capped DC 50 Detect? Weathered-gear? Ranged power tumbling?

Seriously, we see a ranger tumbling and losing DPS due to the animation, just to get 15 ranged power, for (12s)... he'd better TR out of crippling shame.

[Carpone]

This could have been a perfect place to have multiselectors for favored enemies. A tree that let you pick another favored enemy at tier 2,3,4 and 5 would be quite wicked.

I agree and it fits the theme of terrain/planar mastery from pen and paper.

[Sylveny]

I my opnion, this tree, atm, seems to have met two of the focuses of it, the Dexterity (as of a trance) and the Avoidance defenses (dodge, incorp, etc), feels good to use and to have those. But for a DPS tree, it seems lacking, compared to some others (like inquisitive, it's not even close)

The mark here seems weak if you compare the benefits to the mark of the hunted from deepwood tree, I know that uses a limited resource, but those are a lot per rest, rarely you'll run out of them, and with the duration of 3 minutes, raids won't be a problem either. If you compare up to tier 5 core of deepwood to this one, you get many more benefits there.

Like deepwood, one of the cores should be an attack, and since some of the active attacks here are sharing cooldowns, there should be a simple system to get them on the cores, as they progress, so that the cores don't seems like speding a lot of points just to get the same thing as deepwood would, just for one point at a tier 5 core.

The last core here, as a sugested before, should reward something for killing or getting a vorpal on marked targets, maybe recharge a many/scattershot charge, for a level 20 ability that seems fair.

Also, again comparing to mark of the hunted, the casting time should've been the same (no casting), I know that's a known issue, but it would be a huge let down if it takes any more time than that.

[LurkingVeteran]

I agree and it fits the theme of terrain/planar mastery from pen and paper.

I'm not sure Ranger needs more special perks with bow. The thing about Favored Enemy is that its power grows better than linearly because you get both to make it work against more enemies, and an increase in damage against all those enemies. If you add 5 Favored Enemies, it will be a niche bonus for all other classes, but rangers will get +10 FE damage and make it work against pretty much EVERYTHING.

[HuneyMunster]

T3
Nowhere to Hide: this is a Detect Secret Door spell and that spell sucks make it to use your search/spot ability score with a penalty like in the other trees.

Detect Secret Doors tends to depending on class maxes at around 40 DC which is useless at higher levels while, True Seeing I think has flat 30 DC. Detect Secret Doors spell should scale better with caster level so that it maintains its use throughout content level. Detect Secrete Doors should still have some limitations. There was very little reason to nerf the spell overly hard a long while back. The same applies to True Seeing which is a more advanced version. Maybe add Concentration skill to the DC?

https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRDetect_Secret_Doors
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:True_Seeing

[Tyrande]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Here's your first look at Horizon Walker, a Universal enhancement tree currently slated for Update 50. Horizon Walker has popped up in a couple of editions of D&D at this point, [...]

Coco, I think this tree is mainly missing the Banishment, Teleport, Haste, Protection from Evil/Good and Misty Step divine version of these spells or SLAs... Is it OP with those in?

Also, has the tree considered using Wisdom as well as dexterity since someone may be using Zen archery?

As far as more dodge is concerned: with that many dodge, it is useless without also raising the dodge cap.