So U51 is rubbish

[MacDubh]

What can we do?

Lets face facts - this abortion of an update is going to happen.

So can any improvement be made?

The power reduction for epic levelling is going to happen, it's obviously a strategic decision.
They may tweak the level gating, but doubtful.
Lets hope they have the tools to tweak the quest difficulties, especially the lower epics.

The loss of key feats like Dire Charge and Mass Frog is also gonna happen. Their heads were above the parapet and are just too good for us to have so easily.

The sickeningly bland and unfun set of new EDs can be improved, many folks have given good ideas and thoughts, keep at it. A bit more sparkle in the mantles would be nice. Give a few woohoos whenever they actually listen.

Our main target must be the rancid charge/builder system. This is just so anti-DDO, anti-fun, and anti a large section of the playerbase. They ain't gonna dump, but our aim should be to only have it in 2 EDs out of the 12 maybe, one martial and one arcane, so folk have reasonable options if they don't like clicking buttons every few seconds whenever in a dungeon. It's a stretch target, but this is the main killer of fun imo for the whole update. Obviously the good designers got outvoted by the shallow people on this one.

I expect the following concessions in any case (could be wrong):-

STR/DEX/CON on physical checks will be extended to any stat. This is a fairly easy one for them to give, and seeing as how they've been encouraging everyone to use INT, WIS and CHA for stuff as well, the restriction is senseless and against many other design aspects, including PDK race and all the lovely Universal Trees

The cost of reset will be radically reduced. They probably set it high just so they had something to give that doesn't matter strategically.

Other things? Maybe we can band together and send a few bottles of whisky to the devs, some nice magazines, special hair gels, whatever sort of thing we think they like. Any folks local can schmooze and seduce them. Remember, you're doing it for the team.
On the forums, keep on pointing out improvements needed, rage against the putrid charge builder aspects, all the usual good stuff.
Some folk go on DDO Discord, suck up to them a bit and give them a nudge or push whenever you can.
Those folks with special access (i.e. who play around with theory crafting) you gotta put it out there for everyone's benefit and push in improvements. Do whatever you have to do (we're relying on you).
And lets keep it nice folks.

[Lonnbeimnech]

What can we do?

cap in sharn,
run lvl 18-19 heroics at level 20
turn in sagas, should get us to 22 or so

run slayers in thunderholm, necro 4, ravenloft, cogs and feywild, should get us to 26 maybe 27

then run von 3,4 wizking, two toed tobias, spies in the house,on R1EH for first time bonuses

before you know it you will have your lvl 29 gear back on and you've only touched one quest over lvl 22

[kmoustakas]

We could find a new game and hope the blowback gets all the people responsible for this 'horizontaly promoted'

[TFerguson]

We could find a new game and hope the blowback gets all the people responsible for this 'horizontaly promoted'

All the other games in this genre suck worse that DDO.

[Memnir]

All the other games in this genre suck worse that DDO.

This is true. Thus, I have been expanding genres. My DDO time is dwindling. I don't know if U51 is going to be my "straw" or not. But my DDO time is dwindling.

[Hashrabal]

All the other games in this genre suck worse that DDO.

Give the Burning Crusade Patch for World of Warcraft Classic a go. Honestly.

I though the same thing as you before I gave it a shot. But I've switched and am not looking back - hell I am so glad I made the switch.

I couldn't stand the though of again having to fight uncaring and disconnected devs on yet another non-issue they've made into a huge problem by their own actions in this game. It's been to many times.

Compared to that, the few issues TBC has are really minor. And the game feels rewarding - unlike DDO where any power you acquire over the course of years of game time is simply stripped away by the devs whenever they feel like it, just so they can sell you a new class/tree/xp potion/otto's box or whatever down the line.

Yes it was a beauty of a game - it really redefined the genre for me and I sincerely hope other games will take inspiration from it. Can you imagine DDO in a new engine, with stable netcode and a team of devs that care? That would be the end of my spare time...

But the game in it's current shape, heading towards where we all can clearly see it going? It is time to let it go. It won't ever become again, what we all crave and that is the cold hard truth of it. At this point the best chance for a playable edition of DDO would be "classic" servers, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[Hashrabal]

cap in sharn,
run lvl 18-19 heroics at level 20
turn in sagas, should get us to 22 or so

run slayers in thunderholm, necro 4, ravenloft, cogs and feywild, should get us to 26 maybe 27

then run von 3,4 wizking, two toed tobias, spies in the house,on R1EH for first time bonuses

before you know it you will have your lvl 29 gear back on and you've only touched one quest over lvl 22

Or in short: skip the content. If the recommendation for how to deal with a new system is to skip it, maybe just maybe there is something terribly wrong with the system?

Don't get me wrong - I fully agree that it is good advice to skip that <censored> content - it probably is going to be the only way to stomach it.

It's just that better advice is to find a game where devs don't actively make the game worse and worse each patch.

[Lotoc]

Give the Burning Crusade Patch for World of Warcraft Classic a go.

as someone who played burning crusade when it was current content rather than classic, dear god you could not be more wrong.
they won't be fixing any of the issues TBC had during its run to maintain it being "classic" and the design philosophy of the devs at the time was far worse than anything I've seen of DDO, and the design philosophy of blizzard on current WoW is still miles worse, I get you're jaded by disliking change or whatever, but you're drastically misinformed if you think WoW classic: TBC is by any means an improvement when it is not even a game in development, its an already outdated game that has already finished its entire lifespan just being redone.
You think SSG don't listen to feedback or anything? Everything about classic wow's "development" is set in stone, it's a no effort stagnant themepark - there won't be changes, there won't be improvements, hell there won't even be bugfixes unless those bugs deviate from what was originally in TBC.
You may dislike and disagree what ssg are trying to do or their vision of what constitutes an improvement
but at least they are trying.

[Shadowperson]

If you cannot handle level 20 content without access to completed destiny trees your character has other issues.

[Shadospawn]

All the other games in this genre suck worse that DDO.

Have you actually tried any? LOL wow so the one game that doesn’t suck is the one with more lag issues, worse graphics, and where “content” equals rinse/repeating character lives over and over and over again?

Hey I play ddo too but to say all others suck I think sounds to me like those toddlers who will only eat hot dogs. Hot dogs are good but there’s better food out there.

[Oxarhamar]

All the other games in this genre suck worse that DDO.

Not for long since DDO is now adding outdated cookie cutter MMO mechanics what made DDO better outside of the DND setting was the gameplay & combat was different not for long

[gringofoot]

Can you imagine DDO in a new engine, with stable netcode and a team of devs that care? That would be the end of my spare time...

That's the dream.

[arminius]

The OP is dead on target. This is what I would be doing if I planned to stay, but I do not.

Of all the bad decisions here, the builder/charger thing is the low hanging fruit. You know they are going to kill it eventually anyway due to lag, even if only a dozen players remain on each server this kind of churny mechanic is sure to cause lag. So skip ahead a bit and kill it now.

[Hawkwier]

Spot on OP.

Of all the problems with U51, and there are many, the ridiculous unnecessary and unwanted builder mechanic is the worst.

It's certainly got the greatest potential for me to decide to simply throw in the towel over this unholy mess and find something more enjoyable to spend my time and money on.

Hopefully they will see sense before it comes to that.

I'm certainly spending no more money, and sadly a la good bit less time too, until I can be convinced further investment in this game is worthwhile.

Right now I have serious doubts. Let's see what evolves though. After all we have only seen 1st pass early development so far...

[SheIsMiiiiiiinnnne]

Have we had any confirmation that the charge/builder system is dropped yet? I know Cordo said that they had taken on negative feedback and were seriously considering dropping it and burying it in 10 feet of concrete, surrounded by landmines, but have they actually committed to this yet?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

What can we do?

Lets face facts - this abortion of an update is going to happen.

So can any improvement be made?

The power reduction for epic levelling is going to happen, it's obviously a strategic decision.
They may tweak the level gating, but doubtful.
Lets hope they have the tools to tweak the quest difficulties, especially the lower epics.

The loss of key feats like Dire Charge and Mass Frog is also gonna happen. Their heads were above the parapet and are just too good for us to have so easily.

The sickeningly bland and unfun set of new EDs can be improved, many folks have given good ideas and thoughts, keep at it. A bit more sparkle in the mantles would be nice. Give a few woohoos whenever they actually listen.

Our main target must be the rancid charge/builder system. This is just so anti-DDO, anti-fun, and anti a large section of the playerbase. They ain't gonna dump, but our aim should be to only have it in 2 EDs out of the 12 maybe, one martial and one arcane, so folk have reasonable options if they don't like clicking buttons every few seconds whenever in a dungeon. It's a stretch target, but this is the main killer of fun imo for the whole update. Obviously the good designers got outvoted by the shallow people on this one.

I expect the following concessions in any case (could be wrong):-

STR/DEX/CON on physical checks will be extended to any stat. This is a fairly easy one for them to give, and seeing as how they've been encouraging everyone to use INT, WIS and CHA for stuff as well, the restriction is senseless and against many other design aspects, including PDK race and all the lovely Universal Trees

The cost of reset will be radically reduced. They probably set it high just so they had something to give that doesn't matter strategically.

Other things? Maybe we can band together and send a few bottles of whisky to the devs, some nice magazines, special hair gels, whatever sort of thing we think they like. Any folks local can schmooze and seduce them. Remember, you're doing it for the team.
On the forums, keep on pointing out improvements needed, rage against the putrid charge builder aspects, all the usual good stuff.
Some folk go on DDO Discord, suck up to them a bit and give them a nudge or push whenever you can.
Those folks with special access (i.e. who play around with theory crafting) you gotta put it out there for everyone's benefit and push in improvements. Do whatever you have to do (we're relying on you).
And lets keep it nice folks.

So you don't want the Saltmarsh ?

[Bacon_Burger]

This is true. Thus, I have been expanding genres. My DDO time is dwindling. I don't know if U51 is going to be my "straw" or not. But my DDO time is dwindling.

DDO time is on a knives' edge.

The rubbish UT called HW is the final straw.

U50 or 51 it doesn't matter. SSG has managed to ****s off most of the old player base. But in thier pugness, they won't admit it, or own up to it.

So be it. When payers won't throw money at DDO due to *all of the issues posted by many recently* maybe then when EG7 drops the hammer on them, they will see how they alienated the majority of players with bad development choices and the massive PAY WALL then maybe, just maybe *some* players will come back. But I doubt it.


ZERO faith with SSG, and won't drop a dime on a garbage UT that steelstar defends as the next greatest thing in DDO. It's RANGER subclass being pawned off on us a some kind of "fix" for bow users. It's garbage, and WotC should stop the release of said garbage.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

What can we do?

Lets face facts - this abortion of an update is going to happen.

So can any improvement be made?

The power reduction for epic levelling is going to happen, it's obviously a strategic decision.
They may tweak the level gating, but doubtful.
Lets hope they have the tools to tweak the quest difficulties, especially the lower epics.

The loss of key feats like Dire Charge and Mass Frog is also gonna happen. Their heads were above the parapet and are just too good for us to have so easily.

The sickeningly bland and unfun set of new EDs can be improved, many folks have given good ideas and thoughts, keep at it. A bit more sparkle in the mantles would be nice. Give a few woohoos whenever they actually listen.

Our main target must be the rancid charge/builder system. This is just so anti-DDO, anti-fun, and anti a large section of the playerbase. They ain't gonna dump, but our aim should be to only have it in 2 EDs out of the 12 maybe, one martial and one arcane, so folk have reasonable options if they don't like clicking buttons every few seconds whenever in a dungeon. It's a stretch target, but this is the main killer of fun imo for the whole update. Obviously the good designers got outvoted by the shallow people on this one.

I expect the following concessions in any case (could be wrong):-

STR/DEX/CON on physical checks will be extended to any stat. This is a fairly easy one for them to give, and seeing as how they've been encouraging everyone to use INT, WIS and CHA for stuff as well, the restriction is senseless and against many other design aspects, including PDK race and all the lovely Universal Trees

The cost of reset will be radically reduced. They probably set it high just so they had something to give that doesn't matter strategically.

Other things? Maybe we can band together and send a few bottles of whisky to the devs, some nice magazines, special hair gels, whatever sort of thing we think they like. Any folks local can schmooze and seduce them. Remember, you're doing it for the team.
On the forums, keep on pointing out improvements needed, rage against the putrid charge builder aspects, all the usual good stuff.
Some folk go on DDO Discord, suck up to them a bit and give them a nudge or push whenever you can.
Those folks with special access (i.e. who play around with theory crafting) you gotta put it out there for everyone's benefit and push in improvements. Do whatever you have to do (we're relying on you).
And lets keep it nice folks.

I do not want to lose Dire Charge, Mass Frog, Tsunami, or any other spell or ability we presently have - SSG should be ADDing not taking away.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

One of the other problems too is we are not hearing from our Twitch Streamers.
Likely because they are afraid they will no longer receive free stuff if they speak out.

That is bush-league.
and as a result,
I've stopped watching most of them.

'Its just numbers, relax.'
Give someone free pixels and all of a sudden they're a company spokesperson

Its very unfortunate and a big let down.

honest talk is interesting
corporate sponsored groupthink and synchophantic praise is bland.

[Hawkwier]

One of the other problems too is we are not hearing from our Twitch Streamers.
Likely because they are afraid they will no longer receive free stuff if they speak out.

That is bush-league.
and as a result,
I've stopped watching most of them.

'Its just numbers, relax.'
Give someone free pixels and all of a sudden they're a company spokesperson

Its very unfortunate and a big let down.

honest talk is interesting
corporate sponsored groupthink and synchophantic praise is bland.

I don't watch streams, so am coming at this with limited information, however in principle, the fact folks are not speaking out is not a basis for harsh criticism IMO. Be different if they were parroting some unbalanced company propagandist line, but silence in this context is not an unreasonable position to take.

These changes are controversial, and no matter what their view may be, adoption of either side of the argument is bound to aggrieve a portion of their viewer base. Particularly as the eventual outcome of the changes remains uncertain, so cold objective fact is a scarce commodity to deliver.

Their silence, does perhaps, if any were needed, reinforce the controversial nature of the changes.

I don't blame those holding fire right now.