U51 - SSG please take notice.

[MistaMagic]

World of Warcraft - the burning crusade classic is what I play now.

Why?

Even Blizzard, of all people, seems to understand better then the current devs what is the nature of a game.

A game should be, above anything else, fun. If you got a game that the devs like, but the players (at least start to) despise, you don't have a game. You have a chore. This is what DDO has become.

The devs might like to slow us down, remove power, endlessly nerf already aquired (and "worked" for...) power, force us to group up even for leveling content... but the players don't.

At some point you gotta decide what is more important - the dev's ego or having players. If you choose the dev's ego, you will end up with a small subset of players that share the same vision. Small subset of people won't even cover the license cost, thus no game.

You've lost me, for good, already because the devs are so extremely detached from the playerbase. You might be able to salvage what few players remain if you turn around now. I doubt you will - ego is a hell of a drug.

I can never understand WHY people that are gone for good would even be reading these forums. If you have left DDO then you do not have a right to comment on it. Let those that actively play do the commenting

[Iriale]

I can never understand WHY people that are gone for good would even be reading these forums. If you have left DDO then you do not have a right to comment on it. Let those that actively play do the commenting

Because those people loved the game before, and they left because it has changed in a way that they dislike, but they still hope it will change again in a way that allows them to come back.

[Hashrabal]

Because those people loved the game before, and they left because it has changed in a way that they dislike, but they still hope it will change again in a way that allows them to come back.

You got the nail on the head. Might be silly hoping they will change their course - but what else then hope remains...

[TharJr]

Many will always resist change, regardless of how positive it is.

Many like change if it ruins the fun of others no matter how negative it is to them.

[Oxarhamar]

Many will always resist change, regardless of how positive it is.

Yeah that’s not what is happening here these changes especially Builder Spender is not good it’s copy paste outdated boring mmo gameplay DDO doesn’t need

[Cantor]

Many will always resist change, regardless of how positive it is.

I currently despise levelingin epics. For many of the reasons the dev's are trying to address, there is no progression from 20 to 28. I know no one likes nerfs, but this should be a much more enjoyable leveling process. Getting feats, ed points ,or gear at every level that make a difference will be a welcome change. Now that ED is not all at 20, I'd like to see the level 20 gatekeeper go away though since we no longer go from power 5 to 11 at level 20. Let us do a level 19 quest on reaper.

[Osama1991]

If you have left DDO then you do not have a right to comment on it.

he can comment however much he wants

you aint no one to decide who can comment and who cant

[SheIsMiiiiiiinnnne]

(This post represents my thoughts, experiences and observations. I have been a VIP member since 2010. I have bought all the expansions. I play a lot. My primary toon is on Orien, named Kinchloe. I have at least one toon on every server. I have played Hardcore in each season. That's who I am.)

The response to U51 seem overwhelmingly negative.

....
SSG, I sincerely hope you read this and take it to heart. But, don't take my word for it - ask everyone. Really ask, and then act on that data.

Thank you.

Many thanks to the Devs to variety of responses on many threads on various detailed aspects of these changes. Is there any broader strategic response about how something viewed as UNFUN is a good idea, given all the feedback? It is somehwat more than a few doomsayers, even the happy club are muted.

[Stravix]

Many thanks to the Devs to variety of responses on many threads on various detailed aspects of these changes. Is there any broader strategic response about how something viewed as UNFUN is a good idea, given all the feedback? It is somehwat more than a few doomsayers, even the happy club are muted.

Except for all of the people saying how the changes, at Marco level look good, but need some additional fine tuning.

Most people actually like the proposed changes.

[Zavier]

Wrong.

You need to write this :

The response to U51 seem overwhelmingly negative in this forum.

I am NOT part of "the player base" you assume. Just do not include me against my own will.

I quit reading the forums a looong time ago. But my in game pals mentioned all the changes coming. Sooo I dug through all the various posts on Lam regarding the changes.

I went back to my guildies and pal and said, "Wow, I love the SSS mechanic that is coming but the rest of the changes are garbage." To a person, every single one of them feels that U51 is garbage. So there are a bunch of people in game who feel exactly that...it is not just forumites.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

(This post represents my thoughts, experiences and observations. I have been a VIP member since 2010. I have bought all the expansions. I play a lot. My primary toon is on Orien, named Kinchloe. I have at least one toon on every server. I have played Hardcore in each season. That's who I am.)

The response to U51 seem overwhelmingly negative.

• I see more negative and more pronounced than responses to any update in a long while.
• The dislike of the U51 that you showed us is not rooted in minor adjustments. The few changes that have been taken into consideration do not address the core grievances with U51:
  
  • Much more is being taken away from player / customers than is being given back.
  • Loss of the ability to change trees for free. We often need to change our ED tree as a group forms. Sometimes we change ED's 2 or 3 times while a raid party forms, based on changing party make up. Someone either ignored this and decided to jack us up for a growing scale of plat and punish us for trying to run a quest in the game that we came here to play, or worse - has no understanding of why and how we play. Vague suggestions of some temporary discount are at best, an attempt to mollify criticism now and then do whatever you wanted to anyway. How will this build player / customer loyalty or grow server population?
  • 3 trees only, instead of 6 with heroic and vastly reduced options from current ED system. Filler enhancements that add minimal benefit from T1-T4 and T5 at L30. In heroic, T5 is at L12. This is draconian and horrid. How will this build player / customer loyalty or grow server population?
  • Level gating to L30 for the most useful tree options is beyond understanding. Moving it down to L29 will not be some great compromise. L25 at most is the only useful solution.
  
  
• It really seems that the changes in U51 have been in progress for 18-24 months already. It is disingenuous to label it as an advanced beta that is in any appreciable way open to suggestion. This is an announcement, not a discussion.

A solution in search of a problem

• The responses to critiques of U51 from SSG staff, devs and some others have not clarified any compelling reason for this. Telling us that people are not running epic quests, is grossly insufficient. It is a single data point, and by itself does not identify the actual root cause of that data, nor does it demonstrate how these changes are the answer.
• How do you know that the current ED's are the reason why?
• Is it perhaps because there is no real F2P path to L30?
• How many paid players (present and past) / long time players with races unlocked by favor are not running epic quests?
• How many F2P players reach L20 and TR?
• Who asked for this ED hork? Specifically, who? It was not a majority of player / customers. DDO has no suggestion box and no such requests are on the forum. Because I cannot see any trace of compelling need for this drastic change, I am left to speculate what the reasons may be. Others have suggested that this is part of preparation for level cap raising to L35...L40...L50. Whatever reason, it is not clear.

Low server population is this game's biggest problem.

• Player / Customers abandoned dedicated healer builds for good reasons. For one: there are not enough LFMs for anyone to level. Without LFMs to join, dedicated healers (NOT offensive casters) are left to solo quests with shockingly horrible DPS. And someone pointed out as well, there stopped being a need for dedicated healers. Still, my point is that leveling as a pure healer is dreadful.
• It can take 45 min to fill a raid on a Friday night and sometimes there aren't any posted at all.
• You need to bring more people to the game. The game will not grow nor last, on money from the same people. I don't know what percentages of total players are VIP / paid in some form, but I'm willing to bet that they are fairly consistent. So, to get more money - get more people. To get more people, you need to put out a platform that they will play for free and also pay for. Other D&D type MMO's are out there, growing their player / customer populations.
• Dungeons & Dragons has been around since 1974. It is the best known, best selling RPG on the planet. A global base of potential customers, only a fraction of which are playing DDO. Many or most are off playing something else online. It is ludicrous that World of Warcraft (the AOL of Dungeons & Dragons gaming) owns this market.

Speed leveling is not bad.

• If someone wants to slowly level, good for them. Do not tell people that want to level quickly, that this is not how the game is played. We have jobs, families, health, homes and a million other things to manage in our days. Some of us want to get the most we can out of playing DDO in constantly changing schedules and game playing availability. So, yes that means many of us want to get the most we can get from our playing time.
• Don't slow down game play because devs declare that there is a "right way" to play the game.
• Read the data and the customer base and let people play the way they want to play.
• Here is some data, in the form of reasons why I do not hang around L20-L25 one instant more than I need to. I run whatever I can to get xp and level up:
• Worthwhile loot. As in: none.
  
  • Nothing worth having or farming or occupying limited storage space in: ToD, Sentinels, Demon Sands, Phiarlan Carnival, VoN (other than SoS), MoTU chains (maybe a ring from ES2 chain, and saga rewards to hold until after epic TR), Druid's Deep, High Road, GH, Shadowfell, Heart of Madness...basically, nothing below L29 useful for anything more than a single level (at best). Borderlands has good gear for L21 and I am farming that now in preparation for this hork. Thank you for that.
  • Epic loot from any of the above are not going to help much in Reaper from L20-L27.
  • I just ride Sharn gear to L27 and start swapping it out. I am by no means alone here.
  • You may suggest that this new ED will strip players of all the current ED over-powering and force us to use something other than Sharn L15 gear. If I can get a +8 stat with 4 attributes from Sharn at L15, I will not trade it for a +6 ring from ToD with little else.

The userbase is an asset, not an annoyance

• We are player / customers. We give our time and money to this game. We ask for entertainment (something fun to do / pretty to look at and rewarding), and you ask for enough income to pay operating expenses, staff and investors. The relationship between player / customers and SSG works poorly if you don't find out what makes people pay money.
• Engaging your player / customers is not a show of weakness or some capitulation to whiny know-nothings. The ability to know what motivates your player / customers to buy your product *IS PURE GOLD*. Harvest it. It enables this game to pay salaries, reward investors, innovate and improve. No one is suggesting that you involve us in everything. But...there are simple ways of engaging with current and most importantly past customers is a treasure trove of data that will inform SSG / DDO on what will produce greater player populations and revenue.
  
  • People vote with their feet when they leave DDO and choose another game. Contact ex players and ask them why they left and what games they play instead.
  • Contact F2P and past paid accounts and ask them why they don't pay / stopped paying.
  • I can see no way it benefits any organization with ongoing widespread access to buying criteria from their current and past customers, to ignore the data and make no use of it.
  • Players Council does not count. Getting feedback from a tiny group of hand-picked player / customers who lack access to the data just listed and any ability to act on it is, well, not much.

In closing, I feel and observe that U51 changes you showed us last week may be a well intended solution to a problem, but that it will not fix the problem you identified. Moreover, the reason for people not running epic quests lies elsewhere. I also believe that you are missing out constantly on opportunities to grow the userbase of player / customers by not engaging with them proactively and pointedly with the express aim of finding out what will make them invest time and money in DDO.

SSG, I sincerely hope you read this and take it to heart. But, don't take my word for it - ask everyone. Really ask, and then act on that data.

Thank you.

Thank you for this post - I agree in spirit - and I was tragically crestfallen to hear you are farming lvl 21 gear in the boarderlands despite your not wanting to - That speaks loudest - that the loyal players will adapt to however the game is changed and ruined and really instead of encouraging fun - which is what I would do - because youre right - not only are there 1000s of other games but we all have lives, work, families, etc - any time I log in to play is my time for fun. I do not want to grind to re-earn power I already have. I do not want to play D&D over lvl 30 - that exists in no rule book I know of and I have never seen a home brew go over it either. I do not support the MMO-killing 'homogenization' of DDO - nor do I believe the TOS should allow the dev team to delete abilities/skills/items players have paid real $ for with subs, expacs, dice rolls, astral shards, and store points. It is evident to me that the proposed U50/51 changes are not the direction the majority of the player base wish this game to go - I can tell you certainly were my hands on the wheel of SSG it would not at all be the tack i would be sailing. I personally would be demanding my team to increase the fun factor of this game asap - I would want it so fun that people talked - because they could not help themselves - endlessly about it to their friends to convince them to play. Remember how excited you were for that game that you told your friends about? Fun factor - ENGAGE! I would be DDO Picard not some Klingon taking a batleth to my player base.

[Hawkwier]

Except for all of the people saying how the changes, at Marco level look good, but need some additional fine tuning.

Most people actually like the proposed changes.

Irrelevant whether most like or dislike them, as is whatever your or my subjective view of that metric may be, it's not a first past the post election here where a majority can carry the day. Only by convincing the VAST majority of customers these are good changes, does SSG effectively protect its customer base, revenue, and therefore the game.

Personally I don't think they are anywhere near doing that at this stage. But that's not to say they can't. I hope they can...