U51 changes

[kmoustakas]

Nope.

You can't change a game so drastically. Just make a new game to implement all your weird ideas, meanwhile fix the problems already existing here like 'recovering from failed teleport', 'ladder bug' and I don't know, lag? Don't get me started on AI or hireling AI.

[Eme]

it takes all the fun away from my main monk

[vryxnr]

When enhancement trees were revamped (aka: added, it used to be an awkward feat tree type of system) it was arguably an even larger change to the game mechanics. There were people opposed to those changes (not claiming this about anyone, but there will always be people against change just because it is change), but in general it was applauded as a success. I will have to look into the proposed upcoming changes in detail myself, but I've already heard from some newer players (yes, there are still some new players coming in) that they are excited for these changes.

I'm not on either side atm, but when I look at changes my main thought is how much effort it will take to adjust and modify my characters to work with the changes appropriately. The more effort, the worse I'll feel about them, but I will admit I haven't looked that hard at the proposed changes yet.

[Lonnbeimnech]

so you're telling me I can run master's blitz with adrenaline?

so you're telling me I can have magister's DCs while in draconic AND exalted angel?

I can see why you are upset.

[BDog77]

so you're telling me I can run master's blitz with adrenaline?

Well, there is no Master's Blitz anymore, but you can have Dire Charge and Adrenaline (Since Dire Charge is no longer a feat, but is a tier 5 ability in LD).

so you're telling me I can have magister's DCs while in draconic AND exalted angel?

Well, there is no Magister ED anymore, so no.

I can see why you are upset.

Might want to come over to the Lammania forums, read a bit, and then decide....

[kmoustakas]

When enhancement trees were revamped (aka: added, it used to be an awkward feat tree type of system) it was arguably an even larger change to the game mechanics. There were people opposed to those changes (not claiming this about anyone, but there will always be people against change just because it is change), but in general it was applauded as a success. I will have to look into the proposed upcoming changes in detail myself, but I've already heard from some newer players (yes, there are still some new players coming in) that they are excited for these changes.

I'm not on either side atm, but when I look at changes my main thought is how much effort it will take to adjust and modify my characters to work with the changes appropriately. The more effort, the worse I'll feel about them, but I will admit I haven't looked that hard at the proposed changes yet.

Excuse me, as you can see, I WAS there for that. That was awesome because the old enhancement tree played like champions of krynn - old dos based game. Exactly like defender and wolf companion trees are. But If I was looking for a new game, I'd play a new game. I don't want my existing game to become a new game.

Are they revamping all these because people don't want level 31+, as punishment?

[Soulfurnace]

Excuse me, as you can see, I WAS there for that. That was awesome because the old enhancement tree played like champions of krynn - old dos based game. Exactly like defender and wolf companion trees are.

And I'm so glad they were changed. The old enhancements were terrible.

I'm not convinced the ED changes are bad. They need work, but it sounds like it has potential. Maybe it'll make the game more fun than this mindless nonsense it's been for years.

[droid327]

There's definitely going to be a change in the meta, but being able to mix and match beyond just Twists is likely going to be a buff, not a nerf. Especially as more of the trees come out and we get more options to mix and match between.

Some things are being taken away or at least locked into more exclusive opportunity costs, like Frog and Dire Charge. Other things, though, are now possible that werent before, like picking up Evasion in Shadowdancer for 11 points, and still being able to get T5 in another tree. That's going to be huge for Light armor non-evasion builds.

At the end of the day, on Live right now we only get 24 points, and on Lama we get more than twice that. Many of the enhancements remain the same, so its really a big net buff - you can basically take a whole tree like you do now, but instead of just getting a couple Twists to add to it, you can take half of another tree and then splash in a third - including the Cores.

[BDog77]

The main thing I see so far is that every previewed tree has lost it's epic moment. Maybe these will be replaced in Core 6? I dunno. Also, there were certainly some trees that had a "meh" epic moment, or had it nerfed (PA, for example), so there was definitely no guarantee that my characters were going to use one, but for those that did, they were certainly nice. Without seeing cores 4, 5, and 6 it's hard to judge overall power, but if this is what is available for 20-30, then I hope some of the hitpoint bloating is going to go away. Even with the epic moments, some of those fights are just slogs, hate to imagine them now.

Anyway, I don't have to play reaper or even elite for that matter. If the HPs stay where they are, I will just switch back to hard to speed up my gameplay. I never used the EDs much in hard anyway.

[adamkatt]

Nope.

You can't change a game so drastically. Just make a new game to implement all your weird ideas, meanwhile fix the problems already existing here like 'recovering from failed teleport', 'ladder bug' and I don't know, lag? Don't get me started on AI or hireling AI.

Im not even sure why they are messing with with destinys, did we ask for this? i didnt.was there a poll that i missed somewhere?

[Kebtid]

Im not even sure why they are messing with with destinys, did we ask for this? i didnt.was there a poll that i missed somewhere?

Progression in epic levels is basically get to 30 as fast as possible or 29 to get your strong gear.
It has no sense of progression and provides no excitement when you level.
From a design perspective it annuls the effort of content, gear and everything in that range.
And, edest look ugly, outdated and force players into specific choices.

By opening up and changing all that, leveling will feel better, gear progression still needs to be fixed tho, but this is a step into the right direction.
I do not feel excited when i get 22, 23 25 etc, rather i just look forward to 29 once i get to 20, by giving us ap similar system it will feel impactful and fresh.

Also by overall looking at changes it is a slight nerf to many playstyles which we need since we are extraordinary strong now (some combos look a bit to strong, but this is not final preview but just preview).

[LightBear]

Might want to come over to the Lammania forums, read a bit, and then decide....

13 official threads, going to take me a while to let all of that sink in.

Also, some epic destinies are getting changed while others are not?
Or are the others coming in a nexxt preview?
If stated somewhere, sorry did not read everything yet, as well that is a truckload of changes to process....

[Zaalaos]

13 official threads, going to take me a while to let all of that sink in.

Also, some epic destinies are getting changed while others are not?
Or are the others coming in a nexxt preview?
If stated somewhere, sorry did not read everything yet, as well that is a truckload of changes to process....

More reworks comming in future previews. Long story short - no more twist of fate, you can spend point in 3 destinies at once, with system that's very similar to heroic enhancements. You start with 8 points to spend at lvl 20, increasing during leveling, and with epic past lives. You're gated to using low level abilties, t5 abilities are unlocked at lvl 30. Some iconic feats have been moved to destinies. Dire charge now requires you to take t5 in LD. Pretty much every ability i liked from past trees got either nerfed or removed. I love idea of making ED's heroic like, but it needs a lot of work. Thankfully U51 is quite far away so they'll have time to make whole system cohesive na enjoyable (I hope).

[Stales]

Meld looks gutted.

[Mininin67]

This is my opinion, but i am wondering if they are trying to have people leave so they can shut down the game.

Back when the ED changes are coming was leaked there were a bunch of threads and the biggest concern i remember was please do not level gate.

Not only are they level gating, they are taking almost all the useful abilities and either nuking them from Orbit IE meld, or gating behind T5 and nerfing for any build they do not want to use IE Dire Charge will now be STR, Con or Dex based DC, sorry other than my first life i have not played a STR, Con or Dex based melee.

There is so much more wrong with these Ed changes that it is hard to organize my thoughts.

[tralfaz81]

When enhancement trees were revamped (aka: added, it used to be an awkward feat tree type of system) it was arguably an even larger change to the game mechanics. There were people opposed to those changes (not claiming this about anyone, but there will always be people against change just because it is change), but in general it was applauded as a success.

Eventually.

Yeah, here's my recollection of that:

While everyone in general agreed that a tree system was a good idea and would be an improvement over the old clunky system we had, the proposed enhancement trees got about a 90% disapproval rate for those of us testing them on Lammania, to the point of active members on the PC at the time all but begging the devs not to roll them out yet.

Those initial trees we half-assed and rushed out at best and totally gimped about half the classes in the game into unplayable messes while boosting other classes well into the realm of OP. It's taken 8 years of massive overhauls to all those trees to come even close to the balance we had before hand. They were so poorly met and the devs ignoring the player base input pretty much ended the silver age of DDO and contributed heavily to the servers basically becoming ghost towns until the release of RL.

I think it would very much behoove the devs to remember that lesson and be more attentive to the negative backlash before rushing out another new system that could destroy what's left of their player base.

[Strider1963]

Im not even sure why they are messing with with destinys, did we ask for this? i didnt.was there a poll that i missed somewhere?

I totally agree. Theres really no reason to mess with the destinys I havent read the proposed changes as of yet, but I will. Dont forget, everytime the devs change code, theres even MORE lag.

[kmoustakas]

Eventually.

Yeah, here's my recollection of that:

While everyone in general agreed that a tree system was a good idea and would be an improvement over the old clunky system we had, the proposed enhancement trees got about a 90% disapproval rate for those of us testing them on Lammania, to the point of active members on the PC at the time all but begging the devs not to roll them out yet.

Those initial trees we half-assed and rushed out at best and totally gimped about half the classes in the game into unplayable messes while boosting other classes well into the realm of OP. It's taken 8 years of massive overhauls to all those trees to come even close to the balance we had before hand. They were so poorly met and the devs ignoring the player base input pretty much ended the silver age of DDO and contributed heavily to the servers basically becoming ghost towns until the release of RL.

I think it would very much behoove the devs to remember that lesson and be more inventive to the negative backlash before rushing out another new system that could destroy what's left of their player base.

That's my memory of it too and I was a filthy casual back then (and still am)

[Vorachtin]

Party Line: If your build was fun before, you are not playing as we intended.

[Iriale]

Eventually.


While everyone in general agreed that a tree system was a good idea and would be an improvement over the old clunky system we had, the proposed enhancement trees got about a 90% disapproval rate for those of us testing them on Lammania, to the point of active members on the PC at the time all but begging the devs not to roll them out yet.

Well no, you can't say that almost everyone believes this. I like the current system, and I know many people who believe that it does not need major changes just to polish parts of it. Many people enjoy having EDs ready at level 20 already and don't feel like they need to build them up level by level. Many people believe that the current system works well in general and that it is fun. So no, there are many of us who think that changing EDs to a level-limited tree system is a bad idea and not fun at all.