U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Shadowdancer

[droid327]

Shrouding Shot, the ranged Builder, does...nothing

I took it into EE Grim and Barrett, I was activating it against both the Abishai and the Orthon. Nothing happened. It went on CD, it put the other builder on CD, but it did no damage, it didnt attempt to Blind anything, it didnt roll to hit, nothing.

Tried it at long range, at point blank, in IPS, AF, and no stance. Just doesnt do anything.

Male DG Inqui

[red_kain]

My feed back is: you REALLY need to take a look at the point costs here. The entire tree is almost entirely 3 point costs, shadowdancer is way too expensive point wise, especially now that points are to be shared across 3 destinies. The first 3 tiers only have 2 options that aren't 3 points.

Please reconsider splitting the focus of shadowdancer with magic. I do like the magic options, they just don't belong here. T5 options are lacking as well.

-consider replacing the T1 shrouding options with executioner options that the current shadowdancer has, to make use of assassinate bonuses properly (I am, personally, not a fan of blinding enemies, unpredictable movement that makes me chase enemies is undesirable despite the defensive upsides)
-I love the threat reduction in tier 1, very very nice to see
-huge nerf to meld, I can understand why, but I'd rather see it removed than implemented in this way
-Crippled with Shadows: in what universe is stat damage useful in epic content?(enemies get massive boosts to recovering from this don't they?) Unless I'm missing something, this needs to be changed to something different
Alternate Crippled with Shadows: Enemies you hit with sneak attacks, get -2 dodge chance and -3 AC per stack, stacks 10 times
-Noisemaker thing is cool, I probably won't use it but the idea is good
-Instead of Weird, perhaps a cleave assassinate ability? 60-120 second cooldown?
-The total amount of sneak attack dice in shadowdancer appear to have gone down, perhaps change Depths of darkness to 2/4/6 dice per rank? or 3/4/5?
-Would prefer Linger in the dark to be triggered by successful uses of assassinate/shrouding strike(Executing strike)/bluff/stealth or even just something like uncanny dodge activatable. Trying to tumble before engaging a fight would be annoying.
-The drop: very very niche, could stay I'm uncertain about it. Depending on how arcane charges are used, the illusion part might be OP?

I cannot stress the importance of lowering costs in this destiny.

[HuneyMunster]

Weird: The Weird spell is added to your Spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels. Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA modifier + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death.

Yeah, I like a lot of this tree but this is a perplexing choice. 9th level spell slots are highly prized and contested since you get so few. I like the addition of a High-level illusion spell, but adding it into spellbooks rather than giving it out as an active ability similar to consume seems... odd. I understand the new enhancement system and layout would make it more akin to an SLA if it was given straight out of the tree and a level-9 spell as an SLA would be overpowered. As it is designed currently, it seems too weak as a T5 considering the investment required. If the spell is too strong to be simply added to max level spellbooks then maybe taking the enhancement also gives you an additional spell slot similar to Spontaneous Spells like cure/repair spells? I don't know, maybe that idea's too strong, but I still feel the current incarnation is too weak. It just seems strange.

The Weird spell is added to your Spellbook as a level 9 spell sounds similar to that what Bard gets for Hold Monster, Mass. Bard spell is automatically added as an addition spell that takes it's own slot. So effectively getting a free bonus spell slot at level 9 or 6 depending on class. Otherwise it will cause issues with classes that have to use a trainer npc or dragon blood to swap in the spell itself.

In any-case I don't think Weird is worth taking over Mass Frog as it's far more versatile than Weird.

[LurkingVeteran]

I like that there is some support for casters in there. However, it seems to be missing an arcane spender entirely?

It's also a shame that SD is losing a lot of signature abilities like Consume, Charm, Executioners Strike etc. Also, note that Assassinate-based abilities still only scale well into end game on builds with the +10 bonus from T5 assassin. This is also a problem for Falconry, sadly. This means the tree is likely strictly worse for rogues and still mostly useless for others (except maybe casters if they get a spender).

Can First Blood via The Drop crit on spells? Otherwise, it's likely still pretty weak.

[elvesunited]

The Weird spell is added to your Spellbook as a level 9 spell sounds similar to that what Bard gets for Hold Monster, Mass. Bard spell is automatically added as an addition spell that takes it's own slot. So effectively getting a free bonus spell slot at level 9 or 6 depending on class. Otherwise it will cause issues with classes that have to use a trainer npc or dragon blood to swap in the spell itself.

In any-case I don't think Weird is worth taking over Mass Frog as it's far more versatile than Weird.

It's impossible to tell with weird as we need the spellcaster epic destinies to compare to. It's possible that Draconic and Magus will suck at illusion casting and it will force illusionist into Tier 5 Shadowdancer. It's also possible that no illusionist will take Tier 5 shadowdancer because the arcane epic destinies are too good.

[leesun]

Please give Weird a unique visual. It's a tier 5 ability, so please. Pretty please with kobold butter on top.

[LightBear]

Tier 5 (requires level 30):

• Weird: The Weird spell is added to your Spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels. Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA modifier + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death.

Can Paladins and Rangers get this as well plz.
Asking for a friend who loves using this destiny as an Inquisitive FeyDark Illusionist with Paladin as its class.

[Zakumo]

I've been playing Shadowdancer (SD) for a long time in epics, and most of the time when I play legendary content its with this ED.
There's a lot of changes, I really like some and I really hate some.

I think the intent of this ED (in live servers) is to enhance assassins role in non-raid dungeons: Instantly kill the enemies that other classes struggle to kill due to high DR, high hp or some other reasons. (While assassins have another role, in dealing a very high amount of single target damage due to sneak damage and high crit profile, the ED doesnt really buff it, especially compared to other EDs).
I think the current tree tree is really good is some places, and not so much in others, Ill go tier by tier and give a tl;dr at end.
I play assassin, and I will relate it to my experience (no sense trying to analyze it compared to playstyles I haven't got the experience with.)


Cores:
I: I'm a bit on the fence in terms of giving trapfinding with no multiclass. If this is the choice the devs made, I don't mind rolling with it. However, classes that already have trapfinding get no bonus? feels bad for a tree that is supposed to be the natural transition of a rogue. This touches some other abilities but - old SD gave 10 sneak die permanently, from abilities that you generally wanted to get. Current SD gives approx same amount, with a condition of tumble that can proc with 40 effective CD. net dps loss for bosses. in terms of assassinate DC, you also lose 1 in the new tree.
II: Looks like current Shadow Training V, only double the cd and no charges required. This is a nice QoL that SD gets, pretty much null factor.
III:This is really nice for rangers, I often play Tempest in SD, and the evasion upgrade is very nice. For rogues however, I feel getting threat reduction is kinda weird. with a sentient weapon, you get 50% threat reduction, along with this tree it goes to over 100%, with no items or coffee whatsoever. Would've liked to see a sneak die bonus, maybe just 1 or 2, or if the idea is for it to be defensive, maybe gives extra dodge cap or max dex bonus on light armor.

Tier 1:
Technician - roughly the same.
Old Stealthy is split to 2 - Stealthy and Assassinate. I like this change because I have always taken old stealthy, but only really cared about the assassinate bonus. rogues have infinite skill points, so I never had a problem with passing hide or move silently checks. HiPS is nice, but in reality around 95% of the dungeons wont let you really do stealthy gameplay - doors will reveal you when open, or just straight up wont open until all mobs are dead, there's some red name you have to kill which alerts the whole room, etc. I really like that Assassinate lets to charge up fast, will talk about it more with Meld.
Acrobatic gone. Thanks.
Cover of Darkness - More quality of life, Im not exactly sure how many points you get, but if you have enough this is nice to have.
Shrouding Strike/Shot - looks worthless to me. I'm not sure what the design idea here, and would love if you elaborate, but honestly going from 2/3 strong ability to this feels like a punch in the gut for me.

Tier 2:
Long shadows - No auto-fail reflex. Neat.
Sleight of Hand - I thought this mechanic left the game? Im not exactly sure how much this increases dps by, but cool to have after losing some static damage.
Shadowform - Ill treat all the buffs it gets:
30% enhancement to move speed. I cant remember a time I play not hasted. if this gave normal haste - thats cool. if it gives this, it might as well give nothing because you are hasted anyway.
50% sneak movespeed. Frees up some AP in heroic tree? not really that exciting.
3 sneak die. like mentioned earlier, static sneak die is still down.
15% helpless. Cool.
25% incorp. Glad we keep it. big part of the ED for me. (Also 20 Hide and MS)
Casting with reduced movespeed. Cool for clickies I suppose, purely for casters.
nat 20 removes sneak immunity. Live version also increases damage taken by 5%, hope this version does too. On an unrelated note, can Assassin's kiss scale with attack speed? I've gotten complaints my kiss lasts too long.
No more double light damage! Kiss my ass Molnm.
Overall, net buff to this form. Very neat
Meld - Hell yea. no more autosave, we die like men. for real tho, felt weird to see a barb with 95% evasion, Im glad assassin is gonna have it (albit weaker) with much lower cd.
Lithe - Unchanged.

Tier 3:
Crippled with Shadows - This is a must take due to charge cap increase. I haven't been a fan of stat damage, seems pretty weak in legendary content, but Im willing to try (incomes a text of -0).
Grim - Unchanged.
Spell focus - suuuuure. Idc
Whispers - noisemaker trap? is this a joke? I've tried to play with traps once or twice my time in ddo, cant say it was a positive experience. would love to hear the design idea here.

Tier 4:
Pierce the Gloom - Active->Passive. No more autohit except for 1. nerf to new players, seems pretty strange. Lots of to hit bonuses. Cool for raids on reaper.
Dark Armor - 6 m/prr for 3 AP in tier 4. seems too expensive, maybe if it was 10?
The Drop - so from 50-300 to 100-600 on a single mob, one time? I dunno, seems weak. would've preferred a Bluff or maybe fort reduction.
Linger in the Dark - I dont like when Im forced to tumble to get effects, but hope it'll be nice. I haven't done the math, but this this during a boss fight is likely not worth it.

Tier 5:
Just a taste - Same as Untouchable only -3% dodge that was moved to Shadow mastery.
Weird&Focus.
Shadow mastery - bit of a point grab, but must get anyway.

- Where's my Executioner's Strike? Where's my Consume? Where's my Dark Imbuement?
I understand wanting to reduce the power creep. but removing these, especially the latter 2, feels like my unique SD is turned to generic stuff. I like some of the numeric changes, but as thing currently look I wont be taking any actives (not that theres a lot of choices..) from this tree. so the only difference in my gameplay between heroics to legendary will be higher numbers and gears. Sucks.

TL;DR:
There are some number changes, which wont buff or nerf current assassin damage too much (I might live to regret those words). However, losing all the utility from SD makes this tree doubt if Ill ever play assassin in epics again. Key points are:
- Whispers and Shrouding Strike. Junk. please replace them.
- Consume/Dark Imbuement/Executioner's Strike. Strong abilities that were lost. no real giveback.
- Core passives makes this tree more worth it to rangers or other twfs than assassin.

As always, thanks for developing the game I enjoy playing, and to many years to come

[zooble]

To people worried about this, each destiny appears to have a "+1 max charge" at tier 3, so if you were to take all 3 martial destinies and take all 3 +1 max charges, you get a max stack of 6. And with enemies around you, building the charges is really easy with the attacks, so a 60% uncapped boost every 15 seconds that lasts 20 seconds isn't an impossible ask. For people who have the cap already of 27% (Plus or minus a bit more due to enhancements and ship buffs and such, lets call it 30%) you can easily get to 90%. Considering the Hard cap is 95%, I'd say having near permanent 85-90% is probably way better than having a 15s on - 105s off 95%.

Momentum Swing seems to be giving 2-3 charges per use (1 per hit and seems to hit up to 3x when dual wielding) as opposed to 1 per use as stated. This seems like a bug and if fixed will make it a lot harder to keep 6 stacks within the 20 seconds. If intentional then I'd agree it would be easy to keep up, but why would they implement 90% perma Meld for melee/ranged when short term 95% Meld needed to be removed? Unless it was the easy nature of it?

Even if nerfed, I did find it was possible but it was very tight just spamming Momentum Swing + Bring Into Focus(2 seconds remaining on meld at 6 stacks) not accounting for 5% chance to miss on Momentum Swing and disregarding the break in attacks for Bring into Focus. Powerful but janky.

Problems I foresee are losing all stacks due to misses (or other people killing) just like how LD is now. Strike is a 12 second cooldown, all stacks fade off at 15 seconds. GMOF Bring into Focus looks mandatory for maintaining charges (no target required) or building charges before a pull. Bring also puts Strike on shared cooldown.

Further, with 31 Fate Points (+10 Destiny) I have 54 Destiny Points which leaves me just shy of getting any T5 taking the +2 charge caps in other trees.

-----------------

Separately, I don't think Wierd spell is in a bad spot, it just seems like a bad spot since the melee ultimate, Greater Shadowform doesn't feel as impressive being a passive and all.

[HuneyMunster]

From an Assassin viewpoint.

Comments in Bold Parenthesis.


Core Abilities

Retreat to the Shadows (level 20): You gain the Trapfinding feat if you did not have it already. Each core ability in this tree, including this one, grants +1 Epic bonus to all Spell DCs, +10 Melee Power, +6 Ranged Power, +5 Force Spellpower, and +5 Universal spell power. (Just +10 melee power from the core, rest is useless.)
Step Through Shadow (level 23): Activate this ability to conjure a door of pure Shadow, which can take you and your party members to the entrance of the current dungeon. Cooldown: 2 minutes. (Why double the cooldown other than because it has no charges that I've never exhausted. Does't realy have any effect anyway as I usually only it once quest is complete)
The Darkest Luck (level 26): You gain the Evasion feat (normal Evasion rules apply). If you already have Evasion, you gain the Improved Evasion feat. If you already have Improved Evasion, you generate 25% less threat from all sources. (Just some threat reduction seems weak. Why not grant Improved Feint if you have already have Improved Evasion?)



Tier 1 (requires level 20):

Stealthy: +1/2/3 Reflex Saving Throws, +2/4/6 Hide and Move Silently. Rank 3: You gain the Hide in Plane Sight feat. (Seems like filler)
Cover of Darkness: +10/20/30% less threat from all sources. Rank 3: You gain the benefits of the Nightshield spell. (Worth a 3 point investment)
Shadowdancer Builders: Select an ability that builds charges. Multiselector
Nightmare Lance: Arcane Builder: A lance of darkness extends from your fingers, impaling an enemy. They take 1d6+6 Force damage per Character level. The enemy must succeed on a (DC20 + highest of Int/Wis/Cha modifier + Illusion DC bonuses) will saving throw to avoid becoming blinded. On cast, this builds an Arcane Charge. Cooldown: 30/20/10 seconds. Activation Cost: 10 Spell Points. [B(]Skip)[/B]
Shrouding Shot: Martial Builder: Ranged Attack: +1/2/3W, you gain 1 Martial Charge. On a failed fortitude save (DC20 + Highest Ability Modifier + Assassinate bonus) the target is Blinded for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 12 Seconds. (Skip)
Shrouding Strike: Martial Builder: Melee Attack: +1/2/3W, you gain 1 Martial Charge. On a failed fortitude save (DC20 + Highest Ability Modifier + Assassinate bonus) the target is Blinded for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 12 Seconds. (Worth just one point investment)
Assassinate: +2/4/6 Assassinate DCs. Rank 3: On Sneak Attack: 10% chance to gain 1 Martial Charge. (A must have)
Technician: +2/4/6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, and Open Lock. Rank 3: If you have the Nimble Fingers feat, you gain +1 Sneak Attack Dice. (A useless feat required for 1 Sneak Attack Dice, Skip)


Tier 2 (requires level 20):

Long Shadows: Each Martial Charge now grants +1 Sneak Attack Dice. You no longer automatically fail Reflex saving throws when you roll a natural 1. (A must have that so can skip Epic Reflex Feat)
Sleight of Hand: +3/6/10% Offhand Strike Chance, +2/4/6 Bluff. (TWF line and Vistani already put's me at 100%, but good for other builds)
Shadowform: Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle. +10/20/30% Enhancement bonus to Movement Speed, and can Sneak +20/35/50% faster (this will not stack with other enhancements that grant a permanent bonus to movement speed while sneaking). Your attacks gain Ghost Touch, and may bypass the Incorporeality of monsters. (It's just Ghost Touch)
Meld into Darkness: Martial Spender: You gain 10% uncapped Dodge per Martial Charge for 10/15/20 seconds. Cooldown: 15 seconds. (This could be better than I first thought if it can be 100% maintained)
Lithe: +2/4/6 Reflex Saving Throws, Armor Class, and Light Armor Max Dex Bonus. +3/6/10 Force and Universal Spellpower. (Getting as much bonuses to Max Dex Bonus you can get makes it a must have)



Tier 3 (requires level 23):

Depths of Darkness: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle grants +1/2/3 Sneak Attack Dice and +1/2/3 Spell Penetration.
Crippled with Shadows: You gain the Crippling Strike feat. If you already have this feat, it will deal Constitution Damage on each hit instead of Strength. +1 Martial Charge cap (Useless feat, Hamstring as a replacement would be useful)
Grim Precision: You bypass 5/10/15% enemy fortification and 1/2/3% enemy dodge. (Still great enhancement for any melee build)
Shadowdancer Spell Focus: Select a Spell School to Specialize in. Multiselector:
Illusion: +1/2/3 Illusion Spell DCs.
Necromancy: +1/2/3 Necromancy Spell DCs.
Abjuration: +1/2/3 Abjuration DCs.
Enchantment: +1/2/3 Enchantment Spell DCs. (Caster stuff. Skip.)
Whispers: Create an Illusory Shadow that acts as a Noisemaker trap. Cooldown: 60/50/40 Seconds. (Depends on how AI will reacted when your playing in a group. Otherwise it would be a skip unless soloing)



Tier 4 (requires level 26):

Pierce the Gloom: +1/2/3 to hit, to-hit for Sneak attacks, and to-hit while Flanking. Rank 3: You gain Immunity to Silence, Quell, and Blindness. (Skip)
Dark Armor: +2/4/6 Physical and Magical Resistance Rating, +3 Force and Universal Spellpower. (Worth taking if you need to spend more for Tier 5)
Dark Mercy: Your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle now grants +5/10/15% damage versus the Helpless. (Good to have, but depends of spare AP left after taking tier 5 from different Destiny)
The Drop: The First Blood feat now deals double its base damage, applies on harmful spellcasts, and its damage now scales with 100% of your Force Spellpower. Whenever you cast an Illusion spell, gain 1 Arcane Charge. (Skip, caster stuff)
Linger in the Dark: Tumbling while in Stealth now grants you a Martial Charge, +2 Sneak Attack Dice, +5 to hit and damage with Sneak Attacks, +5 Hide and Move Silently, and the ability to sneak with full movement speed for 20 seconds. This may only trigger once every 1 minute. (Seems a must have if you still have spare points to save continuous bashing the spacebar. May lack AP after taking a tier 5 from a different Destiny among other things)


Tier 5 (requires level 30):

Improved Shadowform: Adds to your Shadowdancer Destiny Mantle: Cloak yourself in magic and assume the form of an illusory Shadow. This form grants you 25% Incorporeality, +20 Hide and Move Silently, allows you to cast with a reduced movement speed penalty, and allows you to float as if you had Feather Fall. Also, when you roll a natural 20 on a melee or ranged attack, you envelop the target in shadow, removing its immunity to Sneak Attack for a short duration. You do not need to be in Shadowform for this to happen. (Always been something you want on an Assassin, but Dire Charge makes it inferior now due to the lost of 5% damage boost for all party members from Shadow Mastery)
Just a Taste: You have +1 Critical Multiplier on a roll of 19-20 with Bows, Thrown Weapons, Crossbows, and Finessable melee weapons. (Standard with other trees, but more weapon restrictions)
Weird: The Weird spell is added to your Spellbook as a level 9 spell if you are a Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid, Wizard, or Favored Soul or a level 6 spell if you are an Artificer, Alchemist, Bard, or Warlock. Requires the ability to cast spells of those levels. Weird: A targeted foe and all nearby enemies are subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect, with a DC20 + highest of INT/WIS/CHA modifier + Illusion spell bonuses to prevent the death. (Consume replaced with Weird so nice for Illusionist but not for any rogue archetype)
Greater Shadowdancer Spell Focus: +1/2/3 to all Spell DCs (Skip)
Shadow Mastery: +1/2/3% dodge, +1/2/3 Assassinate DC, +2/4/6 Reflex Saving Throws. Rank 3: +1% Dodge Cap (Assassinate DC is nice to have, but Assassin suffer from lack of crowd control and AoE so better to skip this trees tier 5)


Overall with the removal of Consume, Shadow Manipulation and Executioners Strike/Shot makes this tree unappealing as well as any reason for other build types to slot Assassinate DC in their gear set-up.

[slarden]

Its there, as a part of Improved Shadowform.

I see the helpless damage, but I don't see the 5% vulnerability anywhere listed in the OP.

[JoeCamb02140]

Cores:
I: I'm a bit on the fence in terms of giving trapfinding with no multiclass. If this is the choice the devs made, I don't mind rolling with it. However, classes that already have trapfinding get no bonus? feels bad for a tree that is supposed to be the natural transition of a rogue. This touches some other abilities but - old SD gave 10 sneak die permanently, from abilities that you generally wanted to get. Current SD gives approx same amount, with a condition of tumble that can proc with 40 effective CD. net dps loss for bosses. in terms of assassinate DC, you also lose 1 in the new tree.

Well said. It feels like if you already have trapfinding, then not getting anything for spending on this tree's core is kind of cheap.

III:This is really nice for rangers, I often play Tempest in SD, and the evasion upgrade is very nice. For rogues however, I feel getting threat reduction is kinda weird. with a sentient weapon, you get 50% threat reduction, along with this tree it goes to over 100%, with no items or coffee whatsoever. Would've liked to see a sneak die bonus, maybe just 1 or 2, or if the idea is for it to be defensive, maybe gives extra dodge cap or max dex bonus on light armor.

Agreed. Threat generation as a function of evasion? There seems to be no logic there. A dodge cap increase would be a more natural fit for something like evasion. Rogues need as much damage avoidance as they can get.

[JoeCamb02140]

Whispers - noisemaker trap? is this a joke? I've tried to play with traps once or twice my time in ddo, cant say it was a positive experience. would love to hear the design idea here.

My thoughts exactly. What exactly are they envisioning the players doing with something that doesn't work? Traps are a joke as are bombs. A better version of this would be an improved version of the Ninja Spy core 4, "Diversion: You turn yourself invisible and create a dummy that attracts the attention of nearby enemies. For the next 20 seconds, gain +5 Sneak Attack Dice." How about giving us an Epic version of that instead?

[fabhpk]

The 5% Vulnerability from Shadow Mastery was a nice niche for shadowdancer that it made it desirable for one person in the raid to be in that destiny.

It would be great if you could add this back to the new tree.

It would be awesome to have it back in Crippled with Shadows instead of more stat damage. Criipled with Shadows: You gain the Crippling Strike feat. If you already have this feat, it will deal Constitution Damage on each hit instead of Strength. +1 Martial Charge cap.

Stat damage is just so bad. It makes no sense, why create endgame abilities that will barely work or don't work at all?

[A-O]

[*]Meld into Darkness: Martial Spender: You gain 10% uncapped Dodge per Martial Charge for 10/15/20 seconds. Cooldown: 15 seconds.

Obviously this can't be left as is. From the looks of it, it won't be hard to get 4+ charges in less than 20 seconds. that's 40% dodge cap perma. It's not hard to make a build with 55%+ dodge perma.

In other words, 95% dodge 100% uptime.

Please let the cd be at least 30 seconds. But honestly, look over meld and the whole breaking dodge cap concept as a whole.

[slarden]

I am a long-time assassin player, but took a long break from playing assassin since the stealth changes and recently re-rolled to an assassin for raiding - so any assassins with much more recent experience please chime in if you see anything I am missing or misunderstanding. I am primarily interested in assassin for raiding in a dps spot.

One other caveat - I intend to test on Lamannia but so far I've been trying to absorb the information in these posts and haven't actually played on Lamannia yet.

Since the 5% vulnerability is missing from tier 5 I don't see any offensive abilities at all in tier 5. Assassinate dc isn't very compelling to me since my primary focus is raiding.

I am making the following assumptions based on my understanding of the posts
- I can have one mantle at a time and switch between the mantles as needed relatively easy
- Adrenaline doesn't require the fury mantle
- The 5% vulnerability removal from the description is intentional
- The 2 selectors in Fury allow any build to get 20% off-hand strike chance
- The charge system is not tied to the mantle - meaning I can use the builders without the tree's mantle

If this is all right it seems I would want to go to tier 5 LD with splashes in fury and shadowdancer. I would run primarily in LD mantle to recharge action boosts but swap to SD mantle when I need the 3 extra SD for burst dps.

All this is going to require alot of testing. The removal of int from alot of abilities doesn't have a huge impact on me since I am primarily focused on raiding, but for an all-around questing assassin I don't see how anything but dex makes sense as main stat.

From a flavor perspective fury seems like the wrong tree to grant off-hand strike chance twf boosts.

[Delosari]

I would like to suggest that in the first core if you have the trap finding ability you get instead the Watchful Eye feat (the one that allows you to detect traps automatically without manually activate search)

To my best knowledge, there is no option for rogues to get the Watchful Eye feature without buying the feat (or without selecting certain races or the inquisitive 3 core enhancement), which to me does not make a lot of sense...

[Zafaron]

The Drop: The First Blood feat now deals double its base damage, applies on harmful spellcasts, and its damage now scales with 100% of your Force Spellpower. Whenever you cast an Illusion spell, gain 1 Arcane Charge.

This is almost like a free ruin, most of the tree abilities in the new EDs are kinda underpowered. This one might be too strong.

[A-O]

The Drop: The First Blood feat now deals double its base damage, applies on harmful spellcasts, and its damage now scales with 100% of your Force Spellpower. Whenever you cast an Illusion spell, gain 1 Arcane Charge.

This is almost like a free ruin, most of the tree abilities in the new EDs are kinda underpowered. This one might be too strong.

(300+50)/2*2 = 350 dmg average. Say 1000 force spell power = 3500 dmg. On mobs over 90% hp. Once every 4 seconds.

Yea, it's still ****. But at least now it's not a complete troll feat.

[Monkey_Archer]

Obviously this can't be left as is. From the looks of it, it won't be hard to get 4+ charges in less than 20 seconds. that's 40% dodge cap perma. It's not hard to make a build with 55%+ dodge perma.

In other words, 95% dodge 100% uptime.

Please let the cd be at least 30 seconds. But honestly, look over meld and the whole breaking dodge cap concept as a whole.

Changing meld from a useful (overpowered) survival tool on a long cooldown into permanent near-immunity to physical damage but only for certain dodge builds is terrible. If this is actually intended, at least give other martial build archetypes the ability to maintain a permanent +1000 PRR boost as well