U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Fury of the Wild

[TPICKRELL]

The charge system is horendous. Thats probably true in every tree.

The single target Damage for FoTW is dramatically lower.

The lack of access to meld and dire charge greatly reduce survivability.

The animations are awkward.

The primal charge display is annoying and distracting.

Charges accumulate too slowly and disappeared too fast to be useful. When I did a Bruntsmash test the charges I built up killing the trash disappeared before I could get through the menus to start the Bruntsmash fight.

The lack of unbridled and the reduced damage from adrenaline made the Bruntsmash test take 3 or 4 times longer than on Khyber today.

I expected the charge system to be awkward and annoying but it is worse than my very low expectations. And the damage is not in any way comparable to the current ED Fury with twists.

[elvesunited]

The lack of unbridled and the reduced damage from adrenaline made the Bruntsmash test take 3 or 4 times longer than on Khyber today.

But why is damage from adrenaline reduced?

Tier 1:
Adrenaline: Primal Builder: Your next melee attack deals +25/50/100% damage, and increases your Critical Threat by 16. You gain one Primal Charge when the strike connects. Requires a melee weapon to use. Cooldown: 8 seconds

Teir 3:
Furious: +1/2/3 Strength while Raging. Adrenaline damage bonus is increased by 25/50/100%.

Tier 4 (requires level 26):
Overwhelming Force: Adrenaline now grants and additional 25/50/100% bonus to damage. Rank 3: Foes struck by your Adrenaline attacks are now knocked down for


By my math that is with all 9 AP spent adrenaline doing +300% damage every 8 seconds as opposed to the +200% every 5 seconds it is doing now. ( and the 5 seconds may not be sustainable if you run out of charges ) If it is taking that much longer it suggest it is not working as described. At least as written, Fury of the Wild is the best of the epic destinies presented. Adrenaline should be doing comparable damage. And the great leveler serves as a suitable replacement for Dire Charge. ( though I note no cooldown listed which could ruin it ) Most of the other destinies got hit much worse.

[Slominator]

Most of these changes are ok, I'm liking the direction some of this stuff is going. A bunch of the bonuses are too small for epics. +6PRR and MRR or +3 trip DCs for 3 points are heroic numbers and will barely matter for epics. Double enhancements numbers for things like this at least.

Also, this destiny gives a bunch of helpless damage bonuses but no way to make anything helpless. Dire charge used to fill that role but it's being moved out of reach. Please add some sort of stun or change the Tier 5 trip to a stun. And don't use the excuse that your heroic feats or enhancements should include a stun for your build. That just limits build options, A LOT.

[Artos_Fabril]

Primal Scream - another extremely popular twist granted +5 STR +5 CON for 3 minutes 5/uses per rest.

is being nerfed into almost uselessness

Primal Scream: +1 Primal bonus to all Ability Scores per Primal Charge for - wait for it - 30 seconds

people used this for hitpoints - if you're going to keep it equivalent or better, and it is possible to accumulate 5 primal charges - 30 seconds needs to become 180 seconds

The Damage dealt and buff/debuff durations are increased by 50% per Primal Charge consumed. If you have 3 or more Primal Charge, triple this bonus and confuse all nearby enemies for 3 seconds with no save.

Unless I'm misreading this, with 5 charges you would get 75 seconds of uptime. Not great, but much better than 30.

[TPICKRELL]

But why is damage from adrenaline reduced?

Tier 1:
Adrenaline: Primal Builder: Your next melee attack deals +25/50/100% damage, and increases your Critical Threat by 16. You gain one Primal Charge when the strike connects. Requires a melee weapon to use. Cooldown: 8 seconds

Teir 3:
Furious: +1/2/3 Strength while Raging. Adrenaline damage bonus is increased by 25/50/100%.

Tier 4 (requires level 26):
Overwhelming Force: Adrenaline now grants and additional 25/50/100% bonus to damage. Rank 3: Foes struck by your Adrenaline attacks are now knocked down for


By my math that is with all 9 AP spent adrenaline doing +300% damage every 8 seconds as opposed to the +200% every 5 seconds it is doing now. ( and the 5 seconds may not be sustainable if you run out of charges ) If it is taking that much longer it suggest it is not working as described. At least as written, Fury of the Wild is the best of the epic destinies presented. Adrenaline should be doing comparable damage. And the great leveler serves as a suitable replacement for Dire Charge. ( though I note no cooldown listed which could ruin it ) Most of the other destinies got hit much worse.

It was too late last night for me to try to figure out why.

I just logged on, spent 30 minutes to figure out that I had to talk to all the guys in the new ED grove in order to be able to spend my Action Points. Then bought everything in Fury that I could. There is probably some damage to be gained by moving a few of those points to another destiny, but didn't have the brain power that late to try to min max the new system. But figured that Fury should stand reasonably alone.

Went into Cabal and did the Bruntsmash. This toon did R5 Bruntsmash on Khyber with this gear in 20-24 seconds. It took well over a minute on lammania. The lack of twists is a big factor but doesn't explain all of it. I'll try to figure out more on the why this morning. Same for Adrenalines, the numbers where consistently around 12K on Lammania and its usually more than double that on Khyber. I didn't get a single Adrenaline above 13K on Lammania and I'd usually see at least a couple of 40Ks on live. Can't explain it, but thats what I saw last night. Could be Horrible RNG, but a full R5 Bruntsmash is a lot of hits.

The lack of Adrenaline Overload is a big factor.

[Lotoc]

Unless I'm misreading this, with 5 charges you would get 75 seconds of uptime. Not great, but much better than 30.

if I've got it right it's 750% duration extension with 5 stacks, 50% per stack then tripled because over 3 stacks, so it'd end up at 3 minutes 45 seconds

[tanuki013]

The Great Leveler: Melee Attack: +3/4/6(W), +4/8/16 Critical Threat Range. You stop in place to create a shockwave that blasts all enemies in a small narrow cone. The size of the cone increases with each Primal Charge you have. Does not consume charges. Applies a Trip to all enemies struck (DC 20 + Highest of STR/DEX/CON + Trip DCs).

Please Change the DC calculation to Highest Ability Score, for Falconry druid.
(DC 20 + Highest Ability Score + Trip DCs)

[SpardaX]

Primal Scream - another extremely popular twist granted +5 STR +5 CON for 3 minutes 5/uses per rest.

is being nerfed into almost uselessness

Primal Scream: +1 Primal bonus to all Ability Scores per Primal Charge for - wait for it - 30 seconds

people used this for hitpoints - if you're going to keep it equivalent or better, and it is possible to accumulate 5 primal charges - 30 seconds needs to become 180 seconds

I don't know about Fury as I didn't test it, but some of the Martial charge gainers were a cleave that could generate 1 charge per enemy hit. IE: 5 or so charges with 1 attack.
As long as the cooldown is less than 30 seconds, you could keep primal scream up permanently if Primal has a similar attack.

Testing it now, Adrenaline at least only gets 1 charge, but Primal Avatar's AoE coccoon gives 2 charges.

Casting Primal Scream with 1 charge lasts 45s
Casting Primal Scream with 2 charges lasts 1m
Casting Primal Scream with 3 charges lasts 1m30s
Casting Primal Scream with 4 charges lasts 2 minutes.

You can easily gain 4 more charges back in that time.

There's also an enhancment that makes you heal as if you had the heal spell cast on you scaling off melee power when you primal scream.
It might not last as long, but with no per rest count you can easily keep it up 100%.

[A-O]

[*]Primal Scream: Primal Spender: Nearby Enemies take 1d12 Sonic damage per character level and are Shaken for 4 seconds. This damage scales with the highest of 200% Melee Power or 100% Sonic Spell Power. You and your allies gain a +1 Primal bonus to all physical Ability Scores per Primal Charge for 30 seconds. The Damage dealt and buff/debuff durations are increased by 50% per Primal Charge consumed. If you have 3 or more Primal Charge, triple this bonus and confuse all nearby enemies for 3 seconds with no save.

Triple what bonus? Does it become 150% per stack of primal? Or do you simply mean it becomes 50%. If the latter, just remove that text to avoid confusion, as it already says that when saying 50% per stack.

Also, character level. Does that include epic levels? So 30d12 @ level 30? If not, it really should since we want things like this to scale as you level through epic as well. Sorry if this is an obvious one, been away for a year so haven't kept a close look on the last few cycles.

[J1NG]

Triple what bonus? Does it become 150% per stack of primal? Or do you simply mean it becomes 50%. If the latter, just remove that text to avoid confusion, as it already says that when saying 50% per stack.

Also, character level. Does that include epic levels? So 30d12 @ level 30? If not, it really should since we want things like this to scale as you level through epic as well. Sorry if this is an obvious one, been away for a year so haven't kept a close look on the last few cycles.

Not sure as I haven't finished testing in GMoF and SD yet, but that reads like it's TRIPLE the Primal Stat Bonus, so instead of +1 All Physical Stats Primal Bonus, it's now +3 All Aphysical Stats Primal Bonus. And confuse enemies around you for 3 seconds.

J1NG

[TPICKRELL]

In the descriptions I only see one increase to max primal charges in the fury tree. I took that and seem to be capped at 4 Primal Charges. That means things like Primal Scream can't receive the 5 charges benefits. If I have to spend points in only Shirardi or Primal (now a caster only tree) to get another max primal charge then this system is worse than horrible.

Also, the only way to get primal charges in fury seems to be the Adrenaline action which means 1 charge every 8 seconds at most. In theory there are builders in Shirardi and Primal Avatar but one is ranged or an SLA spell and the other is a spell, so you either have to switch between ranged and melee every couple of seconds to build charges faster or not rage so you can cast the SLA's. Neither is workable.

Charges disappear after 12 seconds if you have not landed another adrenaline hit, so its very slow to build charges and they have to be used in a very narrow window or they go away. The result is all of the If you have 5 charges stuff is close to useless.

At 4 Charges Primal Scream has a 2 Minute duration. I cant get to 5 charges so don't know what that will get me. Primal Scream can't be cast until you have the charges built up, and it eats your charges so it is much less valuable than it was before.

[J1NG]

Indeed you are correct.

You can only (for now) increase your Charge cap through grabbing the cap increases in other Destiny. This means if you want 6 Charge, you need ALL THREE Destiny to be from the same Sphere in short.

J1NG

[SpardaX]

In the descriptions I only see one increase to max primal charges in the fury tree. I took that and seem to be capped at 4 Primal Charges. That means things like Primal Scream can't receive the 5 charges benefits. If I have to spend points in only Shirardi or Primal (now a caster only tree) to get another max primal charge then this system is worse than horrible.

Also, the only way to get primal charges in fury seems to be the Adrenaline action which means 1 charge every 8 seconds at most. In theory there are builders in Shirardi and Primal Avatar but one is ranged or an SLA spell and the other is a spell, so you either have to switch between ranged and melee every couple of seconds to build charges faster or not rage so you can cast the SLA's. Neither is workable.

Charges disappear after 12 seconds if you have not landed another adrenaline hit, so its very slow to build charges and they have to be used in a very narrow window or they go away. The result is all of the If you have 5 charges stuff is close to useless.

At 4 Charges Primal Scream has a 2 Minute duration. I cant get to 5 charges so don't know what that will get me. Primal Scream can't be cast until you have the charges built up, and it eats your charges so it is much less valuable than it was before.

Yes each tree seems to have only a single "+1 Max cap".
Though I'm looking at Primal Avatar and I can't currently find it's.

Quick Cutter has a 6s cooldown if you'd rather use that and not Adrenaline.

If there is 1 thing to be said about the system, it's that the other spheres all at least are consistent.

You want all 3 martial trees to get 6 charges? you can do that.
You want all 3 divine trees to get 6 charges? you can do that.
I assume the same for Arcane when it comes.

But with Primal if you want all 3 you need to invest in a melee ONLY tree, a Ranged ONLY tree and a Casting tree all at once. Which truly is a bad thing.

[Lotoc]

Yes each tree seems to have only a single "+1 Max cap".
Though I'm looking at Primal Avatar and I can't currently find it's.

Quick Cutter has a 6s cooldown if you'd rather use that and not Adrenaline.

Quick cutter is also building two stacks while dual wielding, doing the quick hit with one hand and cutter with the other, no idea if adrenaline is giving stacks for strikethroughs, but quick cutter may well do similar with strikethrough.

[TPICKRELL]

Quick cutter is also building two stacks while dual wielding, doing the quick hit with one hand and cutter with the other, no idea if adrenaline is giving stacks for strikethroughs, but quick cutter may well do similar with strikethrough.

It is not giving more adrenalines with strikethrough and it does not if you use the adrenaline on a great leveler. I tested against the kobolds to see if I could get charges faster using leveler and regular strikes and never had more than 1 charge added with 225 strikethrough.

There is an option to have a 3% chance to get a charge on any hit, did not try that on to see if it procs enough to make a difference.

[J1NG]

It is not giving more adrenalines with strikethrough and it does not if you use the adrenaline on a great leveler. I tested against the kobolds to see if I could get charges faster using leveler and regular strikes and never had more than 1 charge added with 225 strikethrough.

There is an option to have a 3% chance to get a charge on any hit, did not try that on to see if it procs enough to make a difference.

On a Vistani TWF, the stack chances were fairly acceptable. Not great, but viable.

J1NG

[TPICKRELL]

This system is horrible.

I know the devs will not take that as constructive. The best idea is to scrap this charge system all together.

But trying to be more in the constructive criticism that they ask for.

At least for Fury there is no flexibility in the current system. My choices are only to spend my points in martial trees to try to get some of my nerfed damage back or spend them in primal trees to get more max charges and builders.

I still don't like it, but some of the flexibility would be added back if builders were changed to generic, and would build charges based on the active mantle, rather than on the tree they came from. That would at least give some flexibility to spend points in synergistic trees rather than trees that have close to zero value add. Now that Primal Avatar is a caster tree, the primal trees do not have any synergy, which means the primal trees have a huge disadvantage to the trees from the other spheres.

[A-O]

Not sure as I haven't finished testing in GMoF and SD yet, but that reads like it's TRIPLE the Primal Stat Bonus, so instead of +1 All Physical Stats Primal Bonus, it's now +3 All Aphysical Stats Primal Bonus. And confuse enemies around you for 3 seconds.

J1NG

Okay, ty. Does primal scream have a cooldown? Also, doesn't that mean +9 all stats? since it's +1 all stats per charge, when tripled +3 per charge, for a total of 9 stat. Or 12 with 4 charges, or max up to 18? Seems pretty dumb.

[TPICKRELL]

Okay, ty. Does primal scream have a cooldown? Also, doesn't that mean +9 all stats? since it's +1 all stats per charge, when tripled +3 per charge, for a total of 9 stat. Or 12 with 4 charges, or max up to 18? Seems pretty dumb.

This is a poorly written description. With 4 Charges Primal Scream was +4 to stats and a duration of 2 minutes. I can't get to 5 charges without sinking points into a useless tree for my test Barbarian, so havent tested that.

[A-O]

This is a poorly written description. With 4 Charges Primal Scream was +4 to all stats and a duration of 2 minutes. I can't get to 5 charges without sinking 12 points into a useless tree for my test Barbarian, so havent tested that.

So what does it triple then? It doesn't triple the +50% dmg, it doesn't triple the +1 stat per charge. Is it just SSG being SSG again, or is something supposed to triple here?