U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Shiradi Champion

[Zezahk]

Prism ought to have the Prism and Rainbow effects innately, with the t2 addon being Stay Frosty and t3 addon being Stay Good. The third base is gets Double Rainbow, assuming it doesn't get a better effect like shrineless rest.

[Thar]

Disclaimer [INDENT][I]

• Prism: Shiradi Champion Destiny Mantle: Ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 2d10 damage to a random ability score.

don't the stat damage regen faster than it can be applied? This is likely a product of an era of DDO that doesn't exist anymore. Please change to the current tier 1 that today does cold damage and slows. this is at least useful.

[Scortius]

As a caster tree, this seems to be really limited. There's some cool stuff, but the choices seem to be for casters to take caster stuff and ranged builds to take ranged stuff, and there's not much overlap. It's kinda hard to see why this is all one tree.

Beguile does seem both weak and I'm unsure why I'd want it. Since you're trashing Magister, this seems like it might be the tree people who want to play enchanters (like me) will head.

But if I've opted for enchant DCs, what do I need with building up charges so I can cast Beguile, instead of just using a regular spell? And if I'm not specced as an enchanter, I suspect Beguile won't catch anything.

And T4 and T5 offer very little variety to casters. You'd take Prism, and Control, but Step into The Wilds (Displacement) overlaps with the Feywild Illusionist T5. I'm actually looking around trying to figure out where a caster would spend points.

I don't like charge building systems at all, they're a hassle and often bug prone, and I prefer to concentrate on other things. But if this tree is going to be building charges, it needs something to spend them on.


I'd like to propose, I think:

instead of trashing Magister, keep it, and push all the Prism stuff into there, with some prismatic SLA's with (or better, without charge spenders) (Wall? Sphere? Balls?)

[Zezahk]

This and shadowdancer are utterly incompetent as half-casters, despite making some attempt at DCs and shadowdancer having the highly important Weird.

[Magnus_Magister]

Please, do not remove stay frosty. Please...

[Singular]

Agreed

Not sure if you meant to, but this nerfs Tea with the Queen. On my sorc, I use it as an emergency heal - it basically pumps HP into your character while making the character invulnerable to attacks. By forcing Tea to activate only upon shrining, you're removing this very useful aspect of it. Also, these changes make Tea essentially useless in most raids as many raids either don't have shrines or have them at an appropriate time (i.e., before the main battle), though there are a few raids where the bonus would still be working.

[Singular]

Extraordinarily disappointing.

1) Per the description, Pin has been gutted: now only actually pinning one target and now only on a critical hit and now only for 3 seconds. A three second slow is pathetic, a 3 second pin isn't much better. I assume the wording is meant to indicate that it no longer benefits from Improved Precise Shot. Compare with live where pin actually pins all targets that are hit for 18 seconds. Major degradation to CC.

2) Stay Frosty is gone? Even more degradation to CC tools.

3) Prism - I assume double rainbow is going to have the same muted and weak set of effects as it does now on live.

4) Ranged power from cores drops from 60 (10/core x6) to 18 (6/core x3).

5) There is no replacement offered for the loss of Favorable Winds which over the cores gave 7% chance to deal 10d10 additional sonic damage and 7% chance to deal 2d100 extra force damage.

This is a disaster for physical ranged characters that used Shiradi. In a different reality where you weren't level gating the progression, these changes would already look like a major performance degradation. When you combine it with level gating and we're limited from using tools like nerve venom and hunt's end until level 30?

I generally try to keep these things in perspective - I praise when I see good things and try not to get hung up in ranting about negatives. I'm sorry, but this looks like garbage to me.

Good points! All true. Man, I hope there are many changes to these EDs.

[Targal]

What is the point for the use of wild empathy in Healing Spring when it only casts just Vigor? Just give us the current Healing Spring or stronger ones like Regenerate Mass, or special version of vigor with the extra duration over 30s.

[Redgob]

Extraordinarily disappointing.

1) Per the description, Pin has been gutted: now only actually pinning one target and now only on a critical hit and now only for 3 seconds. A three second slow is pathetic, a 3 second pin isn't much better. I assume the wording is meant to indicate that it no longer benefits from Improved Precise Shot. Compare with live where pin actually pins all targets that are hit for 18 seconds. Major degradation to CC.

2) Stay Frosty is gone? Even more degradation to CC tools.

3) Prism - I assume double rainbow is going to have the same muted and weak set of effects as it does now on live.

4) Ranged power from cores drops from 60 (10/core x6) to 18 (6/core x3).

5) There is no replacement offered for the loss of Favorable Winds which over the cores gave 7% chance to deal 10d10 additional sonic damage and 7% chance to deal 2d100 extra force damage.

This is a disaster for physical ranged characters that used Shiradi. In a different reality where you weren't level gating the progression, these changes would already look like a major performance degradation. When you combine it with level gating and we're limited from using tools like nerve venom and hunt's end until level 30?

I generally try to keep these things in perspective - I praise when I see good things and try not to get hung up in ranting about negatives. I'm sorry, but this looks like garbage to me.

So much this. Does anyone actually still use multiple-times-nerfed garbage like double rainbow on live? Yet we are getting this while losing all the actually useful parts. I've been using shiradi for CC on my crossbow builds long before it got "buffed" because I much prefer CC over damage (I often solo) and I hate dying. Now... everything is gone or available at cap only. And even heavily nerfed pin is likely to be replaced. Woohoo. Count me out. I'm too disappointed to read all the other destinies to look if some other one will provide some comparable CC, let's hope so...

[FengXian]

Yep, ranged got butchered.

You had the nerve to nerf legacy bows knowing you were gonna remove Adrenaline from ranged and this is what is supposed to counterbalance it?

[SpardaX]

Can Pierce Deception grant the bonus +5% Doubleshot if you have ANY other source of auto-search, not just the Watchful Eye feat? Elf, Inqui, etc. also offer the same effect.

Probably not. They said they added stuff like this because they want feats no one takes to have a reason to be taken. This is the reason to take Watchful Eye.

Bug though: I took Watchful eye and I didn't notice a 5% doubleshot increase from Pierce Deception for doing so.

[Stoner81]

Bravo! Bravo! You have successfully nerfed ranged in to the ground if this goes live as it currently stands.

Ranged characters are very limited on how to CC mobs and yet you are trying to remove basically every tool they have to do this! Why? WHY? WHY!!!!!!!

1. Pin and Otto's Whistler - DO NOT CHANGE THESE FROM AS THEY ARE CURRENTLY! They are fundamental abilities to a ranged character for CC.

2. Stay Frosty - PUT THIS BACK! Reasons same as above.

3. Nerve Venom and Hunts End - Are you guys on something? Gating these to level 30 is beyond dumb. Put Hunts End in the first core and have the damage scale up as the other cores unlock at the very least. Nerve Venom needs to be in tier 2 or the highest 3.

Healing Spring is now basically useless. Keep it as it currently is and allow it to use Wild Empathy charges. If you insist on the change then make it a better form of Vigor like Regnerate or something.

Stoner81.

[Zafaron]

Why no evocation DC? Or is this not meant to be a druid tree anymore?

Also the people making the monsters and the people making the trees need to talk to each other as you need like +20 more DC than the trees seem to have in most instances to even break monster DCs in level 30+ quests. (130+ DC in sharn/feywild for reliably landing your spells)

Does the 100 damage of a random type from Prism not apply to spellcasters anymore?

Primal spenders must be a typo? Maybe 1d6 force damage per character level * primal charges? Also single target charm is not so good. Maybe something like the elf fey energy tap instead?

Vigor is bad, like less useful than cure light wounds bad, healing spring was okay as it was?

The numbers for some of the tier 4/5 abilities (for all trees, not just this one) seem awfully low to me. 10 cold iron DR and +5 spellpower.. this might be helpful in heroics at level 1 but not very much.

[Sylveny]

I get that prism, rainbow and double rainbow are very flavorful abilities, but I mean, how can you actually spec for something that is totally random? the scaling should've always been the highest of 200% ranged power or spellpower and even so, that's not something to rely on, I mean 7% chance for some extra damage, even tier 1 Arcane Archer feels better just because is on every shot, the mantle on this version feels really weak, and from all the released epic destinies I feel better using divine crusader just because the full BAB, and the heals.

So my suggestion is that the mantle in the first tier that we get it give full BAB just like Divine crusader, (I mean devs promised to fix this for everyone with ED revamp) AND the rainbow effect (for flavor)

The second tier of the mantle, it could be something like the stay frost part that slows 20% of the time and the double rainbow (also for flavor).

The third mantle tier the cold iron DR should be as much as the character level (or maybe double it?), and as much force and universal spellpower (it's not even that much TBH) and something like resistance to charm or something fey related

The forth mantle, IDK about everyone else, but I don't feel like nerve venom is that good with the doubleshot changes, maybe a new or improved mechanic here, maybe triple the proc rate of all prism effects, or something, I mean, you can only be in one tier 5, this should be extra nice, and it's only level 30.

Phase double should give more incorporeality based on the primal stacks


Swap pin with and watered down version of hunt's end that scales up just like fury's, but please let it work on all targets just as it is now (same with otto's whistler) first target hit only would really pass the impression that you just don't like ranged character, not that you don't know how to balance it, because everyone is saying the same thing

enemy of my own, just does't feel like it's enough, even if you are a pure ranger, a lot less if you're not.

Lore of the hunt should be dodge cap and with every two lore feats, because 5% dodge at level 30 is just really weak

[Zezahk]

Here's how I'd improve Fey Form

Fey Form: While in your Colors of the Queen Mantle, gain Cold Iron DR, force and universal spellpower equal to your level, and ranged power equal to half your level. If you have the Slippery Mind feat, you gain a second saving roll versus fear and illusion. You are considered Fey instead of your original race. (Warforged retain all living construct properties.)

[Zezahk]

My pitch for redoing the Mantle

Prism:
Colors of the Queen: Shiradi Champion Destiny Mantle: Ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 2d10 damage to a random ability score. Your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 1d100 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with the higher of Spell Power or 200% Ranged Power and your Spell Critical. Your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to inflict a random effect on your target. These effects scale with various different things depending on their origins, including Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power.

Rainbow:
The Favor of Frost
While in your Colors of the Queen Destiny Mantle, ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 3d20 extra cold damage, and have a 20% chance to slow enemies by 50% for 10 seconds. This Cold damage scales with the higher of Spell Power or 200% Ranged Power and your Spell Critical

Double Rainbow:
Power of the Queen
While in your Colors of the Queen Destiny Mantle, your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 2d100 extra force damage, and a 7% chance to deal 2d100 extra light damage. This scales with the higher of Spell Power or 200% Ranged Power and your Spell Critical. Weapons you equip are considered Good.

Fey Form (Already gone through above)

Nerve Venom: While in your Colors of the Queen Mantle: Your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to paralyze living creatures for 6 seconds. Living creatures that are immune to paralyze loose 10% fortification. This can stack up to 50 times.

[Oxarhamar]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Hello folks! This is part of the Epic Overhaul. If you haven't read our Overview post and its companion info post, please do that first before reading this!


Core Abilities

1. Fey Favor (Level 20): You gain the Magical Training Feat. Each core ability including this one grants +6 Ranged power, +50 Spellpoints, and +5 Force and Universal Spell Power. In addition, this grants you a +1 Epic Bonus to Spell DCs. Only the Highest Epic Bonus to Spell DCs you get from Destiny Cores applies.
2. Pierce the Twilight (level 23): +5 to Attack with Ranged Weapons, +5 Spell Penetration. Your Epic Bonus to Spell DCs increases to +2.
3. Audience with the Queen (level 26): Get some tea! When you Rest at a shrine, you pop off for some tea, and randomly get a beneficial effect based on the type of tea you receive. These effects last for 10 minutes. Your Epic Bonus to Spell DCs increases to +3.

Tier 1 (requires level 20):

• Prism: Shiradi Champion Destiny Mantle: Ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 2d10 damage to a random ability score.
• Wild Magics: +30/60/100 SP. Rank 3: +5 Force and Universal Spell Power
• Shiradi Growth: Choose a Spell or a Ranged Attack that builds Primal Charges. Multiselector
  
  • Pin: Primal Builder: Ranged Attack: +1/2/3(W). On hit, generate one Primal Charge. The first target hit is Slowed for 3 seconds. On Crit: The first target hit is instead Immobilized for 3 seconds. Rank 3: +1 Critical Threat and Multiplier. Cooldown: 6 seconds, CC duration 3 seconds.
  • Fey Lights: Primal Builder: SLA: Enemies in a cone must make a save (20 + Highest of INT/WIS/CHA + Illusion bonuses) versus Will, Fort, and Reflex for a Daze, Stun, and Immobilize effect. On hitting at least one enemy, generate one Primal Charge. Cooldown: 6 seconds, CC duration 3 seconds. Activation Cost: 10 Spell Points.
• Good Luck: +1/2/3 Luck bonus to all Saving Throws and Skills. If you have the Luck of Heroes feat, double this bonus.
• Fey Sight: +2/4/6 Listen, Search, and Spot. Rank 3: You are immune to Blindness.

Tier 2 (requires level 20):

• Rainbow: While in your Prism Destiny Mantle, your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to deal 1d100 extra damage of a random type. This damage scales with 200% Ranged Power.
• Empathetic Link: +1/2/3 charges of Wild Empathy.
• Shiradi Power Choose a Spell or Ranged Attack that expends Primal Charges. Multiselector:
  
  • Otto's Whistler: Primal Spender: Ranged Attack: Make a ranged attack with +1/2/3(W). If target is moving, it is forced to Dance for 18 seconds. In addition, on hit you deal 1d6 Force Damage per Primal Charge spent. This damage scales with Ranged Power. Cooldown: 15 Seconds.
  • Beguile: Primal Spender: SLA: Target must make a Will save versus (20 + Highest of INT/WIS/CHA + Enchantment bonuses) to Charm a single target. Cooldown 25 seconds. +1 to the DC per Primal Charge consumed. Cooldown: 15 seconds. Activation Cost: 10 Spell Points.
• Healing Spring: Casts Vigor on multiple targets. A positve energy conjuration that heals 1d6 +1 per 3 caster levels (max +11 at level 33), every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. When the initial effect expires, a smaller healing effect hat heals 1 HP every 5 seconds for 30 seconds is applied. Only one Vigor spell can be active at a time, with the most beneficial taking priority. If multiple Vigor spells are cast on the same target, then the duration is extended. Cooldown: 30 Seconds. Activation Cost: 1 Wild Empathy Charge. Passive: +1 Wild Empathy Charge.
• Phase Double: +2/4/6% Doubleshot. Each Primal Charge grants +1% stacking incorporeality.

Tier 3 (requires level 23):

• Double Rainbow: While in your Prism Destiny Mantle, your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to inflict a random effect on your target. These effects scale with various different things depending on their origins, including Melee, Ranged, and Spell Power.
• Pierce Deception: You gain the Watchful Eye feat. (If you pass within 5 feet of a trap, you make a Search check to notice it as if actively Searching. (You still need the Trapfinding feat to successfully Search for difficult traps.)) If you have the Watchful Eye feat, +5% Doubleshot.
• Shiradi Magic: Select a Spell School to Specialize in. Multiselector:
  
  • Conjuration: +1/2/3 Conjuration Spell DCs.
  • Enchantment: +1/2/3 Enchantment Spell DCs.
  • Illusion: +1/2/3 Illusion Spell DCs.
  • Transmutation: +1/2/3 Transmutation Spell DCs.
• Vision: Your attacks have Ghost Touch and you bypass 5% dodge and fortification. If you have the Holy Strike feat, double the dodge and fortification bypass.
• Elemental Absorption: +3/6/10% elemental absorption with fire/cold/acid/electric damage. Rank 3: +1 Primal Charge cap.

Tier 4 (requires level 26):

• Fey Form: While in your Prism Mantle, gain DR 10 Cold Iron and +5 force and universal spell power.
• Track: Dealing damage to enemies reduces their AC by 1 and fortification by 2%. stacks 10 times.
• Enemy of my Own: You gain the Favored Enemy: Fey feat.
• Whirling Wrists: +10/20/30% Attack Speed with Thrown Weapons.
• Step into the Wilds: You gain Displacement. This effect lasts as long as the quest or until you die or it is dispelled. Resting will return it.

Tier 5 (requires level 30):

• Nerve Venom: While in your Prism Mantle: Your ranged and thrown attacks and offensive spells have a 7% chance to paralyze living creatures for 6 seconds.
• Lore of the Hunt: Ranged Weapons gain +1 Critical Damage Multiplier on rolls of 19-20.
• Control: +1/2/3 to all Spell DCs.
• Feywild Attunement: Every 4 Wilderness Lore feats grant you +1% Dodge. You are always considered to be in Point Blank Shot range. +10 Force and Universal Spell Power.
• Hunt's End: Your next shot with a Ranged or Thrown weapon has +400% damage. This shot has +20 to Critical Threat Range. Cooldown: 18 Seconds.

Why are we still have proc effects here when they were supposed to be lag?

[Avocado]

Back before the great thrower nerf of 2021, you were able to make these proc chances from prism more viable by shooting more projectiles. Bows maxed at 3 arrows, daggers at 4 and shuriken's at 5. Using a shuriken gave you a distinct advantage when trying to proc nerve venom or other on proc attacks. That is gone. All ranged has the same projectile amount and the flavor is gone. All ranged is the same, sniper shot + hunts end is like all there is for them now. The devs seem to be nerfing all the must having abilities holding up certain builds. Hunts end is that ability. None of the other trees provide any comparable ranged damage. That delete button hits like 250k damage in pug raids with little debuffs. Nothing can compare to that damage every 18 seconds. So is this tree going to be the only viable ranged tree with no flavor at all or is it going to be good for ranged and spell casters but not be the only viable tree?

to be continued....

[Stormraiser]

Agreed, it's a bit below the bar. One of the things we were considering adding (but weren't able to get done in time) is something like: "Creatures charmed by Beguile gain +100% Damage and +100 Spell Power per Primal Token consumed. This effect is removed when they stop being Charmed."


Good feedback! We may need to move some of these down or out. Like we've said before, this is super early, and reconciling power levels vs. investment is definitely a part of what still needs to happen.



Immobilized does not count as Helpless - It only prevents the affected creature or player from moving. (They can still turn.)

Hunt's End should eventually match the Live numbers. This pass started before the recent changes and needs those tooltips updated to match.


This is a strong point, and a good argument for replacing Pin as the ranged Builder with a version of Hunt's End that gets upgraded, similar to Fury. We'll see what we can do.


Yep. To be honest, because of the animation capping problems, most throwers aren't even getting the majority of the ludicrously over-bloated Live version. So for most of you, this will be a loss of 0% attack speed right now. If we didn't nerf this here, there is a 100% chance we would have nerfed it later (and we still might have to, even at these numbers, when we get to a fix for Thrown weapon animations). So, we might as well put them in the ballpark of numbers that could be balanced in the future.

These are fairly constructive replies. Appreciate it. Is it possible to reply to more of the comments and suggestions?

[Tilomere]

nvm idc