U51 Early Preview: Epic Feats, Destiny Feats, and Legendary Feats Changes

[Stravix]

Another perspective: Dire Charge "holds up" every melee build in the game, because Dire Charge is one of the few ways a melee player can survive in difficult content (mid-high reapers). I don't know what else a melee player is expected to have in their "build" to make it good, if not one of the few tools they can access for reliable crowd control. Dire Charge does not just prop-up "bad" builds; it's used by everyone.

Dire Charge should not be sidelined as an ability that "players can invest in if they choose to," as if Dire Charge is anything but necessary. It has now gone from a necessary feat, to a necessary T5 investment. This reduces the diversity of builds - even "good" builds - that can participate in endgame reaper content.

For an ED pass that seems to focus on build diversity and universality, I'm confused as to why we wouldn't encourage the build diversity that Dire Charge provided, in its apparent propping-up of "bad builds."

Because pretty much every melee tree now has a different flavor of AoE helpless CC. Dire charge is basically just a second one now

[Jerevth]

None of the benefits of the Epic Past lives are changing, with the exception of the ratio of Past Lives to Fate Points. This ratio has been increased, meaning you earn more Fate Points for each Past Life. Everything else is exactly the same.

Was just about to ask how this would impact EPLs. Thanks for the assurance.

[kpak01]

As a long-time caster that built both DC and DPS builds it seems they want to all casters to be generalists rather than specialists.

DC casters potentially lose some DC and gain 30% crit damage to their primary damage type...

...a 7.5% dps loss for a gain of +17 in support DCs is probably a winner...

So DPS casters get massive more DCs for free while only losing a bit of DPS, while DC casters just lose. Like I care about getting +30% more crit damage of basically nothing DPS to start with anyway. So is this just supposed to "get rid of DC casters as a thing"?

[Baahb3]

Now is the time to add a tank/defensive focused Legendary feat since you are in there already.

Ideas:
%Bonus to AC from Armor/Shields
%Bonus to AC (like Combat Expertise)
Large bonus to Intimidate skill
Bonus to PRR/MRR
Dodge cap increase for both armor and shields
HPs, maybe not % bonus but HP bonus
Linguistics 15-20%

[Iriale]

Disclaimer
We also wanted to make the Legendary "Scion of" Feats provide more of a competitive choice, which meant boosting the non-Fire feats considerably in the spellcasting department. Finally, we are removing the Epic Skill feats from the game, which will cut down on feat clutter considerably.

Changes in Teal

Epic Feats
Epic Power (autogranted feat)
+3 Melee Power, +3 Ranged Power, +6 Universal Spell Power and -1% to the Spell Point cost of all spells.
now also provides +1 spellcast level with all casting classes for every 2 times this feat is applied (for a total of +5 to all casting classes at level 30)

Destiny Feats:
ALL DESTINY FEATS NO LONGER CONTAIN SPHERE REQUIREMENTS

Epic Spellpower (all types)
Provides +20 Spellpower with the associated elemental type
Now also provides +10% spell critical damage with the appropriate elemental type

Epic Skill Focus (all skills)
Removed from the game!

Dire Charge
Dire Charge is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Legendary Dreadnought.

Mass Frog
Mass Frog is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Primal Avatar.

Destiny Feats with NO MIN LEVEL
Now have Min Level 22

Destiny Feats with Min Level 28
Now have Min Level 25

Destiny Feats with min Level 29
Now have Min Level 28

Legendary Feats
Scion of Earth

• +4 to the DCs of Conjuration and Transmutation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +20 PRR
• +10 Acid and Poison Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Acid and Poison Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Air

• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap
• +10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Electric Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Fire

• No longer grants +25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +10 PRR, +10 MRR
• +10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Fire Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Water

• No longer grants +200 Maximum Spell Points
• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +20 MRR
• +10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Cold Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Feywild

• +10 Sonic Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Sonic Spell Critical Damage
• +4 to the DCs of Enchantment and Illusion spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
• Add 2d20 Sonic damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• +20 Healing Amp

Scion of Shadowfell

• +4 to the DCs of Necromancy spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
• +10 Negative Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Negative Spell Critical Damage. (note that the Poison Spellpower moved to the Scion of Earth feat)
• +20 Negative Amp (assuming you take healing from Negative)
• Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal you for 1d6 Positive damage, or 1d6 Negative damage if you are Undead.

Scion of Mechanus

• +20 Repair & Rust Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power, +20% Repair and Rust Spell Critical Damage
• +20 Repair Amplification (assuming you take healing from Repair)
• +10% Fortification Bypass on weapon and unarmed attacks
• Gain: Master Reconstruction, shares cooldown with Communion of Scribing

Scion of Celestia

• +20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
• +20% Positive, Light, and Alignment Spell Critical Damage
• +150 Maximum Hit Points
• +4 to Will Saves

I see a serious problem with adding spell damage to a single element in each feat, and that is that it favors the specialist classes in a single element too much and hurts the generalists much more. It's about time that legendary feats better reflect spellcasting styles. We need a thematically naturalist feat related to the seasons that allows to the druids to keep changing seasons instead of permanently nailing them to one. We need you to keep in mind that the wizard is more than negative energy, give him some reinforcement although less than that of the specialists to the damage with all the elements, or at least add force in Shadowfell. By adding force to Shadowfell you also help improve the Abyss warlock's bad dps.

We have the alchemist, whose DCs all go by conjuration or transmutation, and what do we find? That the only legendary feat that reinforces these schools is linked to acid. Why do you favours one energy over others (again)? Why are all the feats focused on a single element? Create feats more focused on classes, on the playing styles!

We have the warlock, who only cares about two elements: one elemental energy (pact) and force (eldricht blast). Why is it that with each update you deny warlocks more and more something that reinforces their style of play? We need elemental feats to deal force damage as well. This way, a fiend warlock could take the legendary fire feat and get a decent boost to his eldritch blast as well, while the fey warlock could take Feywild's feat, or the Old One warlock could take the Earth one, etc. Please, please, please, don't create feats so focused that they only favor three classes (sorc, fvs, and acid alchemists). The other spellcasters exist too. Either create different feats for both types of spellcasters - generalists and specialists - or make all feats have a generalist component, a component that specialists will not be able to take advantage of. For example, if force were added to all legendary feats, a fire sorcerer or a fire alchemist would not be affected negatively or positively when picking up Scion of Fire, but it would be a huge help for the poor warlock dps (fiend in this case, but the same could be said with other the other elements).

And lastly, the healers. I would gladly take the Scion of Celestia feat on my healers to enhance healing over other elements if that feat gave me spell DC. Please, a healer is not just a healbot. Many healers participate modestly by helping with the trash, since our dps is usually close to zero in the cap. Don't deny DC to the healers. None of the legendary feats represent many types of clerics or a fvs healer that is anything other than a healbot. At least give +2 to all Spell DCs instead of +4 to Will Saves. Healers will still be losing the +4 to a single school that the other feats receive, but then the feat would be much more usable by healers who are more than just heabots.

We need a paradigm shift in the design that you've been leading the game to in recent years. When it comes to designing spellcaster options, you're creating them all with one spellcaster type in mind that functions as the sorcerer, fvs, or alchemist, or the least-popular healbot (a healer can be a bit more than a healbot!). And I remind you that half of the classes in the game do not work like that. Give them a little thought when designing things for all spellcasters, please.


And I will no longer mess with the classic artifice, which has been totally obliterated by your design of both ED, enhancements, feats and gear, since it is impossible nowadays to maintain a decent ranged dps (no longer good, decent) paired with it a spell DC enough to make use of the class's spells. Much better to enjoy the free sneak atrack and excellent rogue defenses than to try to make a classic artificer that your system does not support. The hybrids are practically extinct, at least you don't lead the generalist spellcasters down the same path of extinction as well, please.

[Targal]

How about putting "Elemental immunity bypass" thing into each elemental feat?

for example
Scion of Earth: Ignores Acid Immunity
Scion of Fire: Ignores Fire Immunity
Scion of Air: Ignores Elec Immunity
Scion of Negative: Ignores Neg Immunity
...
...

[Iriale]

How about putting "Elemental immunity bypass" thing into each elemental feat?

for example
Scion of Earth: Ignores Acid Immunity
Scion of Fire: Ignores Fire Immunity
Scion of Air: Ignores Elec Immunity
Scion of Negative: Ignores Neg Immunity
...
...

I think it's time to stop walking away from D&D. Classes with prepared spells are generalist by design, and taking away 90% of our spells by adding immunity bypasses not only makes the prepared class system obsolete, it also impoverishes the entire system and takes the fun out of using our class at full. What we need is for devs to start designing for generalist classes as well and not just for specialists. Enough of anchoring ourselves in a single element when most classes are not designed for that!

And not to mention the contradictions of his proposed changes. "We don't want to favor one element over others." Then we see that they link healing to fire in Primal avatar, that the feat that offers DC and damage for alchemists is linked only to Acid, and a long list of similar contradictions. Please. More consistency, the system is currently just another collection of nerfs, as it continues to favor some elements and game styles far more than others.

[slarden]

So DPS casters get massive more DCs for free while only losing a bit of DPS, while DC casters just lose. Like I care about getting +30% more crit damage of basically nothing DPS to start with anyway. So is this just supposed to "get rid of DC casters as a thing"?

We've only seen 3 caster trees - 2 of which are hybrids. We do know this is their philosophy:

Caster Levels
Old EDs gave specific bonuses to specific caster levels in the cores. This meant that as a caster, you were relatively limited to Destinies in the Sphere that matched your caster level type.

New EDs will give no specific caster levels to classes. You'll instead gain +1 Caster Level with all classes for every 2 Epic levels you've earned - so at level 30, you'll be at +5 to your caster levels.

Spell Schools and Spell DCs
Old destinies supported either a small subsection or all DC types at the same time, and even then, if you wanted DCs, Magister was the clear choice most of the time.

Our goal is for each spell school to have a specialized destiny (for example, Fatesinger and Enchantment), but to also support several DC bonuses. This means that each type of DC has plenty of room to be specialized in instead of living in a single tree. Magister itself is a very special case, but we'll get to that later. Our new Spell DC Paradigm is as follows:

• Each core of a casting tree grants +1 Epic bonus to all DCs (so core 2 grants +2 Epic bonus, core 3 grants +3 epic bonus)
  
  • Since this is typed, it does not stack, so taking cores from other trees will not increase your DCs.
  
  
• Each of these casting trees in tier 5 has an enhancement that grants +1/2/3 to all DCs.
  
  • Since this is in tier 5, and like with heroic enhancement trees you can only spend points in the tier 5's of a single Destiny, you can only access one of these universal DC boosts.
  
  
• In tier 3, there is a multiselector of a subset of DCs that grants +1/2/3 to the selected DC
  
  • These are antirequisites of the same DC found in other trees. Once you select necromancy in one tree, you can't take it in the other tree.
  • This means that if you are a Necromancy DC caster, you will want 1 of your trees to have that Necromancy, but once you've gotten that DC, your other options are wide open
  • This also means that you can go wide for more DCs for secondary DC values OR go tall to keep focusing, rather than wanting to go wide for all of the DCs across all of the trees that offer it
  
  
• We are also planning on removing the Epic Resilience buff from all monsters at endgame to make DCs across the board far easier to achieve.

I think this is going to make DC ranges very tight among the various build types. We haven't seen what the other casting trees or unyielding sentinel look like yet, but according to the dev post every caster tree is going to have the same +3 generic DC in cores, +3 specific DC in tier 3 and another +3 generic dc in tier 5.

It could be the charge system boxes most casters into taking all 3 arcane trees to max out effectiveness.

There is also the very distinct possibility that we see a massive rise in the # of unyielding sentinel high defense casting builds because if you go US tier 5 and tier 3 of a casting tree you are only down 3 DC and none of the known tier 5 casting trees offer up a compelling amount of offense or dungeon clearing benefits. The defensive benefits of the new unyielding sentinel are unknown but based on the current model there is a good possibility it will be better than anything you get from the tier 5 casting trees.

As of today if you took 3 shield feats and chose unyielding sentinel instead of spell focus feats and magister you would be down 17.5 DC. In the new model you will be down 6 DC which is impactful, but you are not giving up nearly as much as you were previously for the high defenses.

I don't know if all this is good or bad - it's very different. I think very few people invested in high DC historically so obviously most of the forum discussion on DC was always around nerfing high performing casters and making things easier for people that didn't invest in DC so it makes sense the devs heard these comments and not the lack of comments from people investing in high DC and enjoying that playstyle. The squeaky wheel wins again.

I think builds will be able to gain some differentiation with a higher dc with past lifes, feat and gear choices (sacred DC bonus and taking embolden for example), but I think the idea of building a caster specifically for max DC will be obsolete unless content comes around with a specific targetable DC range much like pre-U14 had the magic # as 42 for no-fail saves in epic devil assault, echrono, house p, house d, house k.

I think it will be much easier to build a solo-friendly caster for most people.

All of these thoughts are based on the current trees and the design philosophy. I really hope the tier 5s in the arcane trees and exalted angel are compelling. My thoughts on the current tier 5s

Shadowdancer: Weird is the only interesting ability for a pure caster and due to the double save requirement and fear immunity aspect is less compelling than mass frog - even for an illusionist that is better off diversifying a bit so they have spell that works against high fort + high will save and/or fear immune enemies. This tree looks solid for an arcane warrior build which is much more viable with this design change

Shiradi Champion: Nerve venom isn't compelling, especially with dcs being easier to land in U51. Current shiradi builds are propped up by a significant bug - many procs are scaling to 200% ranged power x spellpower scaling rather than the 200% ranged power that is advertised. This tree also looks solid for an arcane warrior build.

Primal Avatar: The only pure casting tree for us to preview. Mass frog with full dc potential and supporting int, cha or wisdom - this alone beats the other tier 5s for a pure caster (except when the frogs spawn 2 veng and 2 dooms at the wrong time!). The summons doesn't seem to have much potential. Improved Intensify isn't super compelling for me.

[krillix]

So what feat will add force spell power and force critical Damage?

[Enderoc]

Yeah.. .dont like playing a boring healer, at least you can frog once in awhile. PSYCH SCREW YOU BUDDY

Melee not in LD? no dire charge? beat it

What if I told you with all the spellpower and healing amplification available divine classes do not need to be able to ressurect a slain God with 10x its hp and can take other feats and enhancements to actually play the game or.... anyone who is speccing for a quest probably needs someone else to pull them through it and needs to be examined themselves? Lol
Yeah tanks, healers and trappers oh my...are good to bring along but if you are uncomfortable because how someone else built themselves up...the insecurity is your own.
Not saying people should not take their class seriously. Its more like...if X dies what is plan B...if X fails at Y how can we still benefit from X.
Most of my DDO experience involved instances where we had to come together and plan as a group because balanced parties hardly ever happened.
Thats part of the fun.... Am I wrong?
Thats why these gloom posts are bugging me... these are not the same people I remember they seem fragile.
Its like they have PTSD of being new with every proposed change....

[Palna]

Yes, we can!

To start, something specific to Mass Frog: Mass Frog has a known, longstanding issue with its Caster Level that is important when it comes to Spell Resistance checks made when enemies have Mass Frog cast on them. Mass Frog is an Epic Class Feat (much like Favored Enemy feats are Ranger Class Feats). Spells cast from Class Feats use your Class Level for their Caster Level, which means your effective Caster Level for Mass Frog is 10, far lower than you'd need to land the spell on most relevant enemies with Spell Resistance. This is not something we can easily fix without significant reworks to the Spell system or overly-cumbersome background adjusting. The best way to make it effective again is to make it no longer be a Class Feat. That alone isn't the reason it landed in Destinies, but it is a reason we knew it needed to move.

Looking at both of these feats, they are taken way more than most of their Destiny Feat counterparts. Granted, there's a case to be made for "the other Destiny Feats aren't that good, you should bring them up instead"; in the future, we may improve the other Destiny feats but that argument doesn't change the rest of why we wanted to move these two skills. What these two feats have in common is:

1. They are available to any character (provided you have leveled the relevant Destinies once ever)
2. They are AOE, hitting many nearby enemies
3. Their effectiveness in combat is high relative to the amount of investment needed to use them (DCs needed to land them are somewhat low relative to other abilities and/or dumping DCs and relying on the occasional nat-1 is considered a worthwhile use case)
4. They're very often taken on builds whose archetypes do not match the intended archetypes of the skill.

In short, we don't feel it's healthy for the game for this kind (and strength) of ability to be available at the level of investment Epic Destiny feats currently provide, especially as you will no longer be required to complete Destiny Spheres in order to get Destiny feats when this Destiny Pass goes Live. And especially as these two feats seem to be considered mandatory right now on too many builds.

As a powerful Primal Transmutation spell, we felt the new Primal Avatar T5 was a good place for Mass Frog. You must invest in a lot of Primal Avatar (and lock out other T5s) to get it.

As a powerful Martial ability with a Tactical effect (stunning) we felt the new Legendary Dreadnought T5 was a good place for Dire Charge. You must invest in a lot of Dreadnought (and lock out other T5s) to get it.

Will this change affect some builds? Yes, definitely. However, if a build was only being held up by its access to one of these two feats, it wasn't an especially good build to begin with; and again, it's still available to any build that wants to get it out of T5 of those Destinies. It's our hope that this new system has good, accessible abilities for most (if not all) builds, and ideally you'll find a good fit in this new system somewhere to fill the role left by these feats.

Started looking through the changes, and happened on this post. Realised that no amount of feedback will change this "revamp" much, because the attitude shown here is "Steel knows best" and honestly I think you're completely out of touch with this game... But I guess you'll have your CV filler, so good luck with that.

[kpak01]

...I think the idea of building a caster specifically for max DC will be obsolete...

Yeah, that's what I thought. This is like what they did to Bards all over again, destroying an entire unique playstyle to appease the MUST-HAVE-MAX-DPS idiots.

There'll be no point in being a DC caster when a nuker is just as effective as a DC caster at DC casting plus has massive nukes.

Just like there's no longer any point in playing a support buffs/CC/heals Bard anymore now that a sonic nuker psuedo-Sorc Bard can still get almost the same buffs/CC/heals while simultaneously getting massive sonic nuking.

They talk about variety, but the only variety I see is which damage type icon is next to the damage number. Everyone must be DPS.

In this vein, I expect will we see tanking killed also; there will likely be options to gain most of the tankiness while giving up only a little DPS, making a dedicated tank as obsolete as a buffer Bard or a DC caster.

[Treston]

No, they are just not changing and therefore weren't in the above list.

Thank goodness. I was starting to wonder myself since both my 30 lvl's took the Ethereal Scion.

Overall this new concept sounds intriguing, though old diehards will have some trouble adjusting. I preferred the tree look for ED, but will have to get use to the enhancement style - which makes sense if going across destinies.

[Dandonk]

Can we please just not do this? Please? So many things ruined, new annoying micromanagement added.... just don't, please?

[Propane]

Yes, we can!

To start, something specific to Mass Frog: Mass Frog has a known, longstanding issue with its Caster Level that is important when it comes to Spell Resistance checks made when enemies have Mass Frog cast on them. Mass Frog is an Epic Class Feat (much like Favored Enemy feats are Ranger Class Feats). Spells cast from Class Feats use your Class Level for their Caster Level, which means your effective Caster Level for Mass Frog is 10, far lower than you'd need to land the spell on most relevant enemies with Spell Resistance. This is not something we can easily fix without significant reworks to the Spell system or overly-cumbersome background adjusting. The best way to make it effective again is to make it no longer be a Class Feat. That alone isn't the reason it landed in Destinies, but it is a reason we knew it needed to move.

Looking at both of these feats, they are taken way more than most of their Destiny Feat counterparts. Granted, there's a case to be made for "the other Destiny Feats aren't that good, you should bring them up instead"; in the future, we may improve the other Destiny feats but that argument doesn't change the rest of why we wanted to move these two skills. What these two feats have in common is:

1. They are available to any character (provided you have leveled the relevant Destinies once ever)
2. They are AOE, hitting many nearby enemies
3. Their effectiveness in combat is high relative to the amount of investment needed to use them (DCs needed to land them are somewhat low relative to other abilities and/or dumping DCs and relying on the occasional nat-1 is considered a worthwhile use case)
4. They're very often taken on builds whose archetypes do not match the intended archetypes of the skill.

In short, we don't feel it's healthy for the game for this kind (and strength) of ability to be available at the level of investment Epic Destiny feats currently provide, especially as you will no longer be required to complete Destiny Spheres in order to get Destiny feats when this Destiny Pass goes Live. And especially as these two feats seem to be considered mandatory right now on too many builds.

As a powerful Primal Transmutation spell, we felt the new Primal Avatar T5 was a good place for Mass Frog. You must invest in a lot of Primal Avatar (and lock out other T5s) to get it.

As a powerful Martial ability with a Tactical effect (stunning) we felt the new Legendary Dreadnought T5 was a good place for Dire Charge. You must invest in a lot of Dreadnought (and lock out other T5s) to get it.

Will this change affect some builds? Yes, definitely. However, if a build was only being held up by its access to one of these two feats, it wasn't an especially good build to begin with; and again, it's still available to any build that wants to get it out of T5 of those Destinies. It's our hope that this new system has good, accessible abilities for most (if not all) builds, and ideally you'll find a good fit in this new system somewhere to fill the role left by these feats.

@ Dire Charge
– Isn’t the real issue with current Dire Charge is the DC is based of the highest Stat?
You are adjusting this already by making it the highest of STR/DEX/CON.
I can see leaving out INT & CHR, but leaving out WIS is not great for Monks.

The high mob density in many quests makes this popular - standard stunning and tripping doesn't cut it.
You already adjusted the duration for Reaper.
Removing this from the feat list and adding to one ED is going to reduce build choices and create more cookie cutter builds not less.

DC small investment?
3 heroic past lives, 3 Epic past lives (6 if count the ones before the DC option), 1 or 2 gear slots at least.
These are not a small investment from my point of view

Please reconsider and KEEP this as a optional Feat.

@ Mass Frog
Drop Spell resistance and tweak other stats (cool down, #affected, etc).
Folks need to move to the MOBs and expose themselves to damage - sometimes this is costly.

@ Summary
I can see limiting folks to one or the other (you mostly did this by stat limits already).
Don't force folks into Trees for this - this will be limiting builds diversity - not helping it.
Please leave these as optional Feats.

[Gralhota]

Why Scion of Elysium hasn't been improved if it's clearly the worst legendary feat?


Do you really believe that Elysium and HellBall are useful?

[Tinabula]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

In this new framework we are moving some specific power out of the ED trees and into the into the Epic and Destiny feats to help reduce the power spike in the Destinies themselves while still retaining original player power. This also let us boost feats that are currently underperforming. Our other goal with this pass was to spread out power that is currently concentrated in the upper end of the game and bring it lower so that players can access it sooner. So, we've both added power to epic/destiny feats and made them available at lower levels.

We also wanted to make the Legendary "Scion of" Feats provide more of a competitive choice, which meant boosting the non-Fire feats considerably in the spellcasting department. Finally, we are removing the Epic Skill feats from the game, which will cut down on feat clutter considerably.

Changes in Teal

Epic Feats
Epic Power (autogranted feat)
+3 Melee Power, +3 Ranged Power, +6 Universal Spell Power and -1% to the Spell Point cost of all spells.
now also provides +1 spellcast level with all casting classes for every 2 times this feat is applied (for a total of +5 to all casting classes at level 30)

Destiny Feats:
ALL DESTINY FEATS NO LONGER CONTAIN SPHERE REQUIREMENTS

Epic Spellpower (all types)
Provides +20 Spellpower with the associated elemental type
Now also provides +10% spell critical damage with the appropriate elemental type

Epic Skill Focus (all skills)
Removed from the game!

Dire Charge
Dire Charge is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Legendary Dreadnought.

Mass Frog
Mass Frog is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Primal Avatar.

Destiny Feats with NO MIN LEVEL
Now have Min Level 22

Destiny Feats with Min Level 28
Now have Min Level 25

Destiny Feats with min Level 29
Now have Min Level 28

Legendary Feats
Scion of Earth

• +4 to the DCs of Conjuration and Transmutation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +20 PRR
• +10 Acid and Poison Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Acid and Poison Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Air

• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap
• +10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Electric Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Fire

• No longer grants +25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +10 PRR, +10 MRR
• +10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Fire Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Water

• No longer grants +200 Maximum Spell Points
• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +20 MRR
• +10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Cold Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Feywild

• +10 Sonic Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Sonic Spell Critical Damage
• +4 to the DCs of Enchantment and Illusion spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
• Add 2d20 Sonic damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• +20 Healing Amp

Scion of Shadowfell

• +4 to the DCs of Necromancy spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
• +10 Negative Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Negative Spell Critical Damage. (note that the Poison Spellpower moved to the Scion of Earth feat)
• +20 Negative Amp (assuming you take healing from Negative)
• Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal you for 1d6 Positive damage, or 1d6 Negative damage if you are Undead.

Scion of Mechanus

• +20 Repair & Rust Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power, +20% Repair and Rust Spell Critical Damage
• +20 Repair Amplification (assuming you take healing from Repair)
• +10% Fortification Bypass on weapon and unarmed attacks
• Gain: Master Reconstruction, shares cooldown with Communion of Scribing

Scion of Celestia

• +20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
• +20% Positive, Light, and Alignment Spell Critical Damage
• +150 Maximum Hit Points
• +4 to Will Saves

As a reminder, there are no more Sphere requirements (because there are no more Spheres), and any character may choose any feat from the Destiny feat list assuming they meet the other prerequisites (if any). This is incredibly important because it means that even characters who are brand new to Epics can choose from the same pool of Feats that an established player can without needing to grind out Epic Destiny XP.

We think these changes in combination with the Epic/Destiny Feat Tie-Ins in the trees themselves will create a far more compelling level-up flow for Epic play, and allow players to explore new and exciting combinations and builds without worrying about Destiny XP requirements.

Looking at how you are doing other trees I recommend doing a +4 to avocation for celestia. I play a DC style fvs. What you are essentially asking me to do is pick and element of a spell type that I won't use much to get my evocation for spells Implosion which becomes my main targeted spell. I could do necromancy for destruction or slay living or wait till I can get mass frog, but implosion is really the main spell and quite frankly aligns with the majority of fvs. Please reconsider in your revamp.

[Tilomere]

nvm idc

[zooble]

For a caster with a one-piece LGS 35% their base crit damage is 265% excluding class boosts (100% base + 100% std crit damage boost + 35% LGS + 30% Epic Power and Scions). So assuming a 70% crit chance you have 1*.3 + 2.65 x.7 = 2.155 compared to 1*.3 + 2.9x.7 = 2.33 with the extra 25% crit damage for a dps loss of 7.5%. If you were a build using empyrean magic that would have been 1x.2 + 2.9 x.8 = 2.52 for a dps loss of 15.5% dps 0 so arguably empyrean magic is a bigger dps loss for builds impacted.

It's not just straight dps loss people have to deal with, in quests you also have to consider how many casts it takes to kill a pack/mob on whatever difficulty you run. For example, being able to 1 shot a pack with xyz spell. If that turns into 2 casts, that's effectively a 50% dps loss. Even if it's not 1 shot, the dps loss could increase the number of casts to kill mobs by 1, so for example 3 casts instead of 2, 4 casts instead of 3 etc. So you have additional sp costs, cooldown usage and more chances for the mobs to kill you before you kill it.

Of course, loss of crit chance also affects that significantly with a crit being the main decider on whether something gets blown up or not on harder settings.

Further, it seems unlikely that you can get 30% helpless from EDs (Sense Weakness) with the equivalent being T4 Fury and almost zero reasons for a caster to take anything else in Fury. Although, it will still be possible to get 15% through the basic Fury Mantle (foregoing any other Mantle).

And finally, Sorcs get +5 caster levels from epic levels instead of +6 from Draconic for a loss of 1 caster level. Whether the Draconic +3 caster level enhancement stays seems tbd.

Whatever they do with Draconic, I don't see how anything they do would make up for all that.

I probably wouldn't mind if they scaled down mob hp to suit, so relative power stays the same, but how likely are they going to do that?

Like you said, they are probably going to be more generalist. Sort of like a dps Sorc running in magister today getting better holds and better fingers even if they're not specced for it completely. Maybe some of that dps loss will be made up by extra mobs being held or insta-killable but on anything with spell resistance it is still going to suck. But given that Sorcs have the option of running Magister right now for more DCs and less Crit Damage etc, BUT aren't doing it, that says a lot about how people want to play.

I also foresee 1 of the big booms in Draconic being removed to fit their builder/spender mechanic.

[Certon]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

In this new framework we are moving some specific power out of the ED trees and into the into the Epic and Destiny feats to help reduce the power spike in the Destinies themselves while still retaining original player power. This also let us boost feats that are currently underperforming. Our other goal with this pass was to spread out power that is currently concentrated in the upper end of the game and bring it lower so that players can access it sooner. So, we've both added power to epic/destiny feats and made them available at lower levels.

We also wanted to make the Legendary "Scion of" Feats provide more of a competitive choice, which meant boosting the non-Fire feats considerably in the spellcasting department. Finally, we are removing the Epic Skill feats from the game, which will cut down on feat clutter considerably.

Changes in Teal

Epic Feats
Epic Power (autogranted feat)
+3 Melee Power, +3 Ranged Power, +6 Universal Spell Power and -1% to the Spell Point cost of all spells.
now also provides +1 spellcast level with all casting classes for every 2 times this feat is applied (for a total of +5 to all casting classes at level 30)

Destiny Feats:
ALL DESTINY FEATS NO LONGER CONTAIN SPHERE REQUIREMENTS

Epic Spellpower (all types)
Provides +20 Spellpower with the associated elemental type
Now also provides +10% spell critical damage with the appropriate elemental type

Epic Skill Focus (all skills)
Removed from the game!

Dire Charge
Dire Charge is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Legendary Dreadnought.

Mass Frog
Mass Frog is no longer an Epic Feat; it can now be found in Primal Avatar.

Destiny Feats with NO MIN LEVEL
Now have Min Level 22

Destiny Feats with Min Level 28
Now have Min Level 25

Destiny Feats with min Level 29
Now have Min Level 28

Legendary Feats
Scion of Earth

• +4 to the DCs of Conjuration and Transmutation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +20 PRR
• +10 Acid and Poison Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Acid and Poison Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Acid damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Air

• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +4% Dodge, +4 to Dodge Cap
• +10 Electric Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Electric Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Electric damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Fire

• No longer grants +25% Spell Critical Damage with all spells
• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +10 PRR, +10 MRR
• +10 Fire Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Fire Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Fire damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Water

• No longer grants +200 Maximum Spell Points
• +4 to the DCs of Evocation spells, +2 to the DCs of other spells
• +20 MRR
• +10 Cold Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Cold Spell Critical Damage
• Add 2d20 Cold damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)

Scion of Feywild

• +10 Sonic Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Sonic Spell Critical Damage
• +4 to the DCs of Enchantment and Illusion spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
• Add 2d20 Sonic damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
• +20 Healing Amp

Scion of Shadowfell

• +4 to the DCs of Necromancy spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
• +10 Negative Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power, +20% Negative Spell Critical Damage. (note that the Poison Spellpower moved to the Scion of Earth feat)
• +20 Negative Amp (assuming you take healing from Negative)
• Weapon and Unarmed attacks heal you for 1d6 Positive damage, or 1d6 Negative damage if you are Undead.

Scion of Mechanus

• +20 Repair & Rust Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power, +20% Repair and Rust Spell Critical Damage
• +20 Repair Amplification (assuming you take healing from Repair)
• +10% Fortification Bypass on weapon and unarmed attacks
• Gain: Master Reconstruction, shares cooldown with Communion of Scribing

Scion of Celestia

• +20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
• +20% Positive, Light, and Alignment Spell Critical Damage
• +150 Maximum Hit Points
• +4 to Will Saves

As a reminder, there are no more Sphere requirements (because there are no more Spheres), and any character may choose any feat from the Destiny feat list assuming they meet the other prerequisites (if any). This is incredibly important because it means that even characters who are brand new to Epics can choose from the same pool of Feats that an established player can without needing to grind out Epic Destiny XP.

We think these changes in combination with the Epic/Destiny Feat Tie-Ins in the trees themselves will create a far more compelling level-up flow for Epic play, and allow players to explore new and exciting combinations and builds without worrying about Destiny XP requirements.

Dire charge is tier 5. In my opinion, one of the worst things you could have done. It went from a feat you could earn on any class if you worked hard at it to a feat that you have to lock your ED onto to get. Abysmal. Your director is just screwing EVERYTHING up. Bad form. Incredibly disappointed in the programmers and design crew. Surely you could do better than this. This is half-arsed.