U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Core Framework

[Mininin67]

Well, to be honest, a majority of the feedback doesn't matter. They're going to do this update no matter what we say, and turn DDO into a barely-worthy-of-an-APP game.

Removing twists, an unneeded charge mechanic, nonsensical tree changes, any L30 requirements (like L30 augments from L29 gear), they're Titanic-ing the playerbase.

This isn't just a "Hey, we're trying to improve stuff!", it's a totally new game, and alot of us will not be riding the Derp-Coaster once the theme park opens.

This right here.
Once a patch hits Lam no matter how early, it is pretty much set in stone they are moving forward no matter what, they may tweak things but they will not make any big adjustments.

To me the level gating is the killer, I have seen some great suggestions on it but do not expect any to be listened to.

Please do not tell me it is for the NEW PLAYERS! If someone makes it to Epic levels you already have them hooked so this has nothing to do with new players IMO.

I would be willing to bet that a very high percentage of new players barely make it out of the harbor or if they get past the harbor and start seeing all the pay walls to just group with people they leave then.

[A-O]

Looking at the table provided its very clear that the natural progression for the Tier 5 epic enhancements is level 29, not level 30.

There is absolutely no need for it to be at level 30. You went to extreme lengths to solve a frontloading problem, there is no need to go into the opposite end of things now.
Tier 5 at level 29, as it is the logical progression to what you present.

This would increase play ability at level 29. With tier 5 and gear, characters can play legendary content, that they will otherwise skip in its majority if they are forced to do so at 30, because they will simply reincarnate.
There is no logical reason for this decision, please change Tier 5 to level 29.

Very good suggestion. I concur. But I think they're looking at content past level 30 (as they raise the cap) that's why it's set for level 30. WHcih makes sense then, but not now. However, if they set it to 29 now ,and later "nerf" it to 30 when level cap increases, the community will be in an uproar again. So it's a lose-lose for them I'm afraid.

still, should be 29 (for now at least).

[elvesunited]

This right here.
Once a patch hits Lam no matter how early, it is pretty much set in stone they are moving forward no matter what, they may tweak things but they will not make any big adjustments.

To me the level gating is the killer, I have seen some great suggestions on it but do not expect any to be listened to.

Please do not tell me it is for the NEW PLAYERS! If someone makes it to Epic levels you already have them hooked so this has nothing to do with new players IMO.

I would be willing to bet that a very high percentage of new players barely make it out of the harbor or if they get past the harbor and start seeing all the pay walls to just group with people they leave then.

The feedback from the devs have suggested they do see some of the issues with the destinies. It has been acknowledged that shadowdancer has a significant issue being split between supporting illusionists generating arcane charges and supporting assassins generating martial charges and we can expect significantly more multi-selections and abilities in that destiny so it can support both very different build types. It has also been acknowledged that the current situation in Shiradi with Hunt's End being stuck in Tier 5 and Pin being a lousy charge builder is severely handicapping ranged. So progress is being made.

Are we going to convince the devs to get rid of epic charges? Probably not which is a shame because its another level of micromanagement on top of a game already loaded with micro-management. But it's possible we can convince them to make sure any graphic display of charges can be hidden and to change the decay rate to something far less punitive.

The Tier 5 being available at level 29 or less is a no brainer. Cutting the reincarnation train players from ever using Tier 5 epic destiny abilities makes no sense whatsoever from even a business perspective.

So we're not hitting a brick wall. Maybe just a very steep hill.

[mikarddo]

Looking at the table provided its very clear that the natural progression for the Tier 5 epic enhancements is level 29, not level 30.

There is absolutely no need for it to be at level 30. You went to extreme lengths to solve a frontloading problem, there is no need to go into the opposite end of things now.
Tier 5 at level 29, as it is the logical progression to what you present.

This would increase play ability at level 29. With tier 5 and gear, characters can play legendary content, that they will otherwise skip in its majority if they are forced to do so at 30, because they will simply reincarnate.
There is no logical reason for this decision, please change Tier 5 to level 29.

29 is far too late. That means you only get to use it for an hour before you are level 30 and ready to ETR/TR if you are on the TR train.
In heroics T5 abilities are level 12, not level 18 or 19, so you get to use that for many levels (nearly 2/3 of the xp to go from 1-20 is in the 12-20 range).

T3 should be level 21. T4 should be level 23. T5 should be level 25. At level 26 you get access to LGS, at 28 its Slavers gear and at level 29 you get access to the real gear. Thats plenty of progress across the epic levels.

Once they raise the level cap they can and should add T6 at 30 or 31.

[DRoark]

Once they raise the level cap they can and should add T6 at 30 or 31.

If they scrapped this horrible system that're calling "game improvements", and added a L30 "Master/T-6" tier, they might retain some of the playerbase.
This is not a quality of life change, they're turning DDO into a Third-Party APP, that might be OK for a 10-year old to play, not a decade worth of older fans.

That's where things like a Mass Song for bards might go (as opposed to playing it 12 times on a raid), special combat moves, Mass Deadly for Artificers,
and things like that might go. Pigeonholing the ED skills until you hit cap, as it stands now, will deter anyone from evening caring about Reincarnating.

This might be the End Times for DDO.

[jakeelala]

for the love of game design remove the bs respec cost and just let people do it at will it's SOOOO dumb

[Stravix]

for the love of game design remove the bs respec cost and just let people do it at will it's SOOOO dumb

They have said that it will be lowered significantly, at the very least. As an fyi

[Carrow12]

Why are you acting like epic completionist is outside of the realm of most players? It just isn't. Most players that I know are either already epic completionist or are in the process of getting there. ETRs do happen.


Because it IS if you have demanding work and have a family with children. Epic completion isn’t bad. Took me about 3-4 years. Racial and heroic!? I will never have them. It would take me 15 years with the amount of time I can play.

How many hours a week can you play? Me? 8-12 TOPS, on a good week. 2-6 on a normal one.

I can’t sit at a computer 24/7/365. MANY of us can’t. But the few “power” gamers act like “oh this is easy” when it just isn’t. I run a billion plus dollars of peoples money. I do this to get AWAY from stress. To get a mental break. I do not want it nerfed, destroyed, and creating stress in my life. This update will do just that. It kills everything I like about the game and only complicates it more.

I think we might be on the same page here - kinda. I wasn't talking about racial completionist. I wasn't talking about heroic completionist. I was talking about epic completionist - and where I think the time invested is worth more than 4 ap. I don't play all the time. I have a family, and a life. But it'd kinda a spit in the face when the free time I do have that I invested in this game is worth less than other, similar grinds. No one was complaining about more EPLS = more fate points. I'm just saying that it should be comparative.

[archerforever]

We can have Tier 5 enhancements in heroic levels at lvl 12/20.
To be balanced and to keep the pleasure to be on Tier 5 while leveling, that Tier 5 in epic levels must be lvl 26.
Changes as follow:

No changes for Cores cause Core 3 lvl 26 is exactly what is needed
Core 1: Level 20, 0 AP
Core 2: Level 23, 5 AP
Core 3: Level 26, 10 AP
Core 4-6: Will eventually be available at levels higher than 30. Exact breakdown TBD.

Have to change this :
Tier 1: Level 20, 0 AP - ok
Tier 2: Level 20, 5 AP - ok
Tier 3: Level 23, 10 AP - NOPE - > Level 22,10 AP
Tier 4: Level 26, 20 AP - NOPE - > Level 24, 20 AP
Tier 5: Level 30, 30 AP (you may only be in one Tier 5 at a time) - NOPE - > Level 26, 30 AP

That way we can enjoy our build before lvl 30 and the scaling is good

[Certon]

Disclaimer

Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

Greetings! This is a pretty crazy read, so buckle up!

Epic Destinies
We are going to fully revamp the ED structure from the ground up to provide a cohesive leveling experience from levels 20-30 and beyond. The new structure will resemble heroic Enhancements - 6 cores along the bottom and 5 tiers reaching to the top. However, there are some notable differences and similarities to the old ED structure:

You can now be in a maximum of 3 Epic Destinies at a time. Think of it like the current Enhancement window, but without any ability to scroll horizontally along trees. You select up to three trees at a time, socketing them into place in your ED window, just as you select your Heroic Enhancement Trees. You can spend points freely between these three trees, and resetting your ED points out of a tree will allow you to choose a new one.

As you level up beyond level 20, you will earn Destiny Points that you can spend in these ED trees. Epic Levels now display their experience in Ranks, just like Heroic levels do. Each point is earned at each Rank of an Epic Level, which means that each Epic Level corresponds to 4 Destiny Points. The 5th rank of each Epic Level is the level itself, as it is in Heroics. This means that you'll earn Destiny Points at a steady rate rather than in large chunks every 5 ranks.

Each Epic Destiny ability in the new Destiny system has a destiny point requirement as well as a level requirement - just like heroic enhancements do - so you can't jump right to the end at level 20 or without spending the requisite points up the tree. The Level and AP requirements are as follows:

Core 1: Level 20, 0 AP
Core 2: Level 23, 5 AP
Core 3: Level 26, 10 AP
Core 4-6: Will eventually be available at levels higher than 30. Exact breakdown TBD.

Tier 1: Level 20, 0 AP
Tier 2: Level 20, 5 AP
Tier 3: Level 23, 10 AP
Tier 4: Level 26, 20 AP
Tier 5: Level 30, 30 AP (you may only be in one Tier 5 at a time)

You'll notice that the tiers and cores don't exactly match Heroic enhancement trees, and we'll get to that in a moment.

These new ED trees are a mix of the old ED abilities and brand new ones, providing a huge variety of options to players both familiar with our current EDs and hungry for new exciting abilities. As we examine just what made the old Epic Destinies compelling, we're able to make sweeping changes to themes and designs to better support the widest range of available play. You'll see familiar abilities in unfamiliar places, new abilities in the places of old ones, and a lot of radical changes to bring the entire Destiny system together into more of a cohesive whole. We'll have a separate post about the general design notes of the new trees so you can examine the changes in more detail before diving into the trees themselves.

Unlocking Trees
Assuming you've never been in epics before, when you reach level 20, you will be directed to the Fatespinner and a new public area accessible from her dialogue. This area will contain NPCs that correspond to each Destiny. Speak to those NPCs to unlock the destiny for this character permanently. This NPC will give you a description of the playstyles that the tree supports, as well as serve a small part in a new, lightweight tutorial. Once you have done this once on a character, you will not need to do it again. This is just a way for us to vector new players to the Epic gameplay loop into a space that can give them a bit of an aesthetical introduction to our Epic game.

If you have at least one character before this overhaul that has fully capped all of their Epic Destinies, you will receive an exclusive Cloak featuring the now-deprecated Starmap to commemorate your achievement.

Unlocking a tree in the new system also provides +2 Fate Points per tree, which means that a brand new character reaching 20 for the first time will begin with 24 Fate Points.

Fate Points
There are no more Twists of Fate in this system - as players are able to branch out across up to three trees - but Fate Points still have a use. Every 3 Fate Points you've earned will contribute to 1 Permanent Destiny Point in the Epic Destiny Trees. These points are available at level 20 and can be freely spent between the trees you have slotted. If this is your first time in Epics, you will begin with a bare minimum of 24 Fate Points (from unlocking the 12 currently available trees), which means you'll start level 20 with 8 Permanent Destiny Points. This Permanent Destiny Point system is where we recapture the currently-frontloaded Destiny flow and allows us to offer playstyle-defining elements right out of the gate. The first two tiers of each tree are accessible at level 20, so you'll have quite a bit of choice and power at the start.

Fate Points also grant +2 Hitpoints and +1 Spellpoints each, starting at level 20.

You earn Fate Points in a variety of ways - from the Tomes of Fate currently available, from Epic Past Lives at the ratio of 3 Epic Past Lives to 1 Fate Point (which is an improvement, compared to 4:1 as it is currently), and from unlocking Destinies in the new system. You will no longer receive bonus Fate Points at levels 29 and 30.

The current maximum Fate Points is 43: 24 from unlocking trees + 16 from Epic Past Lives + 3 from a Tome of Fate. This means that you will start with up to 14 Permanent Destiny Points from Fate at level 20 (+1 extra Fate Point).

Epic Reincarnation
Rather than requiring Karma, Epic Reincarnation simply allows a player at level 30+ to take the Epic Past life of your choice and return to level 20.

Epic Completionist, rather than granting a Twist of Fate slot, will instead grant a flat +1 Destiny Action Point. You will also earn additional copies of Epic Completionist every 12 Epic Past Lives you earn thereafter. This means that a player with 24 Epic Past Lives will start with 2 copies of Epic Completionist, and will be able to earn 2 more as they reach the 48 total Epic Past Lives. A player with all 48 will have 4 copies of Epic Completionist, for a total of +4 Permanent Destiny Points.

This means that a player with Epic Completionist, all Epic Past Lives, the Tome of Destiny from Feywild, a +3 Tome of Fate, and all unlocked Destiny Trees, will begin level 20 with 19 Permanent Destiny Points (14 from fate, 4 from four copies of epic completionist, 1 from tome).

Epic XP, Epic Destiny XP, and Karma
Although you may have gleaned this from the above sections, just to make sure everyone is on the same page, there is no Epic Destiny XP or Karma in this new system. A player will not be required to level up in a destiny, or earn XP in a destiny, to unlock new trees or reincarnate. The base 12 destinies will be unlocked at level 20 via a simple tutorial (see the Unlocking Trees header for information) and reincarnation will no longer require Karma to complete (see the Epic Reincarnation header for information).

This means that the only type of XP you need to worry about in Epics is Epic XP, which will be unchanged from how it is earned. Epic XP will be displayed on your XP Bar differently (by splitting each level up into Ranks so we can award points more often), but the amounts and totals needed to level up are unchanged from how they are currently.

Leveling Up in Epics
In order to address the backloaded feat flow and frontloaded enhancement flow, we are meeting in the middle for the new level-up experience for Epics.



As you can see, we are moving the Destiny feat levels to follow directly after the Epic Feat levels. We are making an effort to ensure that every level in Epics gives a player some sort of choice or advancement. We want to smooth out the rate at which a player gains power considerably, which means we will be lowering the minimum levels of the Destiny feats.

Epic and Destiny Feats
Epic Destiny Feats no longer have Sphere requirements, as there are no more spheres. Instead, they will simply have level prerequisites.

The level prerequisites of Destiny Feats have been changed. Whereas before a Destiny Feat would have a prerequisite for levels 26, 28, and 29, they will now follow the new acquisition level flow, moving to min level 22, 25, and 28 respectively.

Several Epic and Destiny Feats have changed in functionality, as will be detailed in a separate post.

I disapprove immensely. This looks horrible and negates hours to months of grind just so it can be ground again. What is WRONG with you guys? You WANT people to quit?

[redoubt]

EPIC Completionist = a fourth tree... now that would be epic motivation.

Sure, give me access to one tree for each twist I have now. I'd call that close enough.

Also give me enough point to max one tree and then get to T4, T3, T2 and T1 in the other four trees all at the same time.

Do those things and I might start saying it maintains the flexibility of the current system and is not as much of a nerf.

[redoubt]

Stat bonuses may be going away as an expected spend in the new Epic Destiny system, but you'll certainly have ways to increase your stats between 20 and 30. If DCs become a concern it is something we'll sort through, but this work will take that kind of thing into account.

Thanks everyone for a lot of excellent feedback so far!

Please, please, please do not give us another "soon" or we will fix it if its underpowered. Many of us have lived through too many of those broken promises.

[redoubt]

Heroic Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Racial Completionist grants: +2 bonus to all skills and ability scores.
Current Epic Completionist grants: Another Twist of Fate slot.
Proposed Epic Completionist grants: One Destiny point, the equivalent of one Heroic Action Point.

This is a gross malfeasance to ALL Epic Completionists.

In the new update, the benefits for Epic Completionist should be all of the following:
* One additional Destiny Point;
* Unlock access (spend points) in a fourth Destiny Tree,
* Activate two Destiny Mantles simultaneously.

Make this happen, SSG. Make Epic Completionist a reward, not an insult to players.
I am FED UP with short-sighted poorly-designed "updates" that overhauls and nerfs gameplay.

+1

[J1NG]

I disapprove immensely. This looks horrible and negates hours to months of grind just so it can be ground again. What is WRONG with you guys? You WANT people to quit?

I largely agree with this opinion. I too do not approve of what's being proposed. Here's why:

You (SSG) have developed over the past 9-10 years, content that has been specifically taylored for having Epic Destiny available and towards challenging players of a particular "strength" during those Epic levels. That's a LOT of content that you will need to alter to make sure they are now fine/tuned for the new design you have dropped on players with.

Not only does your new ED designs need to work well as "Epic Destiny", but also maintain the level of progress and power that permits players to not be swampped by the HP bloated, damage bloated, saves bloated enemies that you have created in various content since 2012. Something I would doubt a much bigger and more experienced development team, backed by much more money that they are willing to throw into the checking of content than you are, would be able to accomplish.

Since your design forces players to crawl through Epic Levels, where there is a distinct lack of advancement of power WITH the current live ED and gear available, logic would dictate that you are unable to do what is needed to make sure that this ED change will work as designed. And instead will require numerous player backed changes (through feedback) over the course of many updates to even fix, or reach a stable point that has parity with the current live ED implementation. That is NOT what players want to do when there was something working in place already. You'll only be wasting time, time that could be put on other stuff instead.

You can promise all you want about what you have designs for in the future, but if you end up stuck fixing stuff instead (through this ED change) and don't get to those future changes through wasting time on fixes to ED and content that doesn't match up, then you may as well not have bothered. Because by the time you want to implement those cool new future changes, more "new" design paradigm shifts would have altered those plans. Forever leaving the "future" in the future. Or in other words, once you've fixed everything, send me a message. I'm going to try some other games in the mean time until you have fixed it. Because I don't want to waste my time being your alpha/beta tester, when I can be having fun elsewhere (or, fun that should be in DDO, but it's not. Not if this design is implemented as is).

J1NG

[Akoriv]

I largely agree with this opinion. I too do not approve of what's being proposed. Here's why:

You (SSG) have developed over the past 9-10 years, content that has been specifically taylored for having Epic Destiny available and towards challenging players of a particular "strength" during those Epic levels. That's a LOT of content that you will need to alter to make sure they are now fine/tuned for the new design you have dropped on players with.

Not only does your new ED designs need to work well as "Epic Destiny", but also maintain the level of progress and power that permits players to not be swampped by the HP bloated, damage bloated, saves bloated enemies that you have created in various content since 2012. Something I would doubt a much bigger and more experienced development team, backed by much more money that they are willing to throw into the checking of content than you are, would be able to accomplish.

Since your design forces players to crawl through Epic Levels, where there is a distinct lack of advancement of power WITH the current live ED and gear available, logic would dictate that you are unable to do what is needed to make sure that this ED change will work as designed. And instead will require numerous player backed changes (through feedback) over the course of many updates to even fix, or reach a stable point that has parity with the current live ED implementation. That is NOT what players want to do when there was something working in place already. You'll only be wasting time, time that could be put on other stuff instead.

You can promise all you want about what you have designs for in the future, but if you end up stuck fixing stuff instead (through this ED change) and don't get to those future changes through wasting time on fixes to ED and content that doesn't match up, then you may as well not have bothered. Because by the time you want to implement those cool new future changes, more "new" design paradigm shifts would have altered those plans. Forever leaving the "future" in the future. Or in other words, once you've fixed everything, send me a message. I'm going to try some other games in the mean time until you have fixed it. Because I don't want to waste my time being your alpha/beta tester, when I can be having fun elsewhere (or, fun that should be in DDO, but it's not. Not if this design is implemented as is).

J1NG

J1ng is pretty much dead on in his assessment.

SSG, this is a much politer phrasing of how bad the steaming pile of **** you are about to dump on us is than I could ever muster up the restraint to write.

The only thing he leaves out is the complete lack of competence the dev team has shown in the absolute **** content it has put out after Ravenloft. Which pretty much assures me, you, SSG, will NEVER balance the existing bloated content to the new anemic EDs. The game is about to become a painful, no-fun grind.

There are a lot of other games out there. Some have the potential to be order of magnitude more fun that what you are planning to dump on us.

[Gniewomir]

*snip*

Sorry mate, your math stil sucks. :P

A new player WITH tomes is 12 DP at level 20. A new player WITHOUT tomes is 8 DP at level 20.
A full vet WITH tomes is 21 DP at level 20. A full vet WITHOUT tomes is 17 DP at level 20.
Either way its a 9DP difference.

Firstly, there's no +4DP tomes. There's 1 from feywild and +3fp tome (3fp = 1dp). And i really doubt first thing new player is doing at lvl 20 is buying all tomes and most expensive feywild bundle, so thats an option i think we can exclude.
And you've got problems with reading original Coco post.

Every 3 Fate Points you've earned will contribute to 1 Permanent Destiny Point in the Epic Destiny Trees *snip* The current maximum Fate Points is 43: 24 from unlocking trees + 16 from Epic Past Lives + 3 from a Tome of Fate. This means that you will start with up to 14 Permanent Destiny Points from Fate at level 20 (+1 extra Fate Point)

This means that a player with Epic Completionist, all Epic Past Lives, the Tome of Destiny from Feywild, a +3 Tome of Fate, and all unlocked Destiny Trees, will begin level 20 with 19 Permanent Destiny Points (14 from fate, 4 from four copies of epic completionist, 1 from tome).

To be honest i'm not sure why you even wrote this, i won't even mention that half of numbers you're providing are just contradicting game devs statements..
Firstly, data i used to compare epic to heroic tree i took from your post, so either your math is wrong in literally every post of yours and now you try to fix your own post (by providing wrong numbers again), or i really don't know how quoted here calculation of yours are supposed to explain anything. Anyway, we'll have 9 DP difference and thats something i agreed with in my post, so again: not sure what exactly you're trying to prove here, especially since data in my own calculations in previous post was 100% accurate (maybe except the part where i took 57v48 from your post, but im too lazy to check your math again :P).

Current system @cap example. Twists: Martial Hymn, Meld into Darkness, Haste Boost, Legendary Tactics, and Dance of Flowers

New system @cap example: 9 more DP (from 50 to 59 with tomes) but still in just 3 trees. I challenge anyone to find 9 DP extra worth of abilities within those restrictions that add even a quarter of the value the 5 mentioned twists give.

@level 20 the difference in power between the 5 twists (huge) and 9 more DP useable only in T1-2 is even more profound as far as I can see, though that also has to do with the level gating in the new system.

And... your math is wrong again. Firstly, there's no 5 twists at lvl 20. 5th slot is lvl 30 one, so at 20 you don't have 5 twists. Secondly, such comparison makes very little sense, cause now you can use only 1 tree, what means... you won't need all those twists, cause for example instead of twisting legendary tactics from LD you'll have permanent access to LD and literally all its enhancements cause of using it as 2nd or 3rd tree. Sorry, i don't buy this: it's much better to have +1 twist tier from past lifes rather than access to 60 enhancements from two additional trees and 9 free points to spend them there'. I think sacrificing, from example +1W from gmof and instead of it enjoying literally entire LD tree is still much better option than twists, especially since all EDs are going to be revamped and the power is going to be shifted to lower tiers, so t1-2 in new system will be much better than t1-2 twists from old one (ofc not talking about meld, cause that ability is irreplaceable). For example:
- now you have +1w from dance of flowers and +6 tacticals dc from ld
- in new system you take LD as 2nd tree, so you wont need twist for tacticals (of course u spend 3 points for epic tacticals from new ld). Instead of +1w from gmof you receive (for remaining after tacticals 6 free epl points): fear immunity, +50 hp, +20 melee power, +12 ranged power (from cores), momentum swing and either +6 doublestrike or +3 power attack dmg or +3action boosts or lay waste. Maybe i'm weird, but i think those are a little more than +1w.

We certainly do not agree that the gap between vets and new players have increased, quite the contrary, as 4-5 great twists currently holds much more power than another 9 DP as far as I can tell, partly because you are not limited to 3 trees for those twists but can cherry pick the stuff you really like.[/

Thats manipulation. It's not like with +16 fp from EPL are making twists great. Firstly, cause of how twists work there're always some points you won't be able to spend, so right now, in terms of twists, some epl gives literally nothing simply cause of how upgrading twists system works. For example you might have 3 fp (9epl) and no twists that you can upgrade with such amount. Secondly, like i already proved, in example all EPL gives you one t1 twist and two upgrades. It's not so game changing if instead of one t3 you'll be able to take one t4. Whats more, depends on build, there's possibility that you won't need those additional fate points to upgrade twists just a little (it's not like without epl you have acces to 2xt1 twists). Depends on build, such difference between all epl twists setup and no epl twists setup might be meaningless, especially when this meaningless change require farming 384m xp. It's not like with 3/3/1/1 twists you're dealing no damage and with 4/3/2/1/1 you'll suddenly be in god mode (again, except meld, cause meld is god mode :P). And dont forget that in current system upgrading twists always mean sacrificing something. Of course you can upgrade t3>t4 and twist something t4, but it's not like it's additional bonus. No, you take t4 twist, you lose t3 one, so like i said: depends on circumstances it might change nothing, while additional +9 dp always gives something, no matter what trees you'll use as 2nd and 3rd.

[Mindos]

content that you will need to alter to make sure they are now fine/tuned for the new design you have dropped on players with.

How many man-hours would this take? Removing Epic Resilience is a quick and easy fix. Going through and stat adjusting mobs EVERYWHERE is not. I don't think is going to happen. But who knows? Maybe they will instead recognize the increased challenge and increase the XP?

[Forcystus]

We can have Tier 5 enhancements in heroic levels at lvl 12/20.
To be balanced and to keep the pleasure to be on Tier 5 while leveling, that Tier 5 in epic levels must be lvl 26.
Changes as follow:

No changes for Cores cause Core 3 lvl 26 is exactly what is needed
Core 1: Level 20, 0 AP
Core 2: Level 23, 5 AP
Core 3: Level 26, 10 AP
Core 4-6: Will eventually be available at levels higher than 30. Exact breakdown TBD.

Have to change this :
Tier 1: Level 20, 0 AP - ok
Tier 2: Level 20, 5 AP - ok
Tier 3: Level 23, 10 AP - NOPE - > Level 22,10 AP
Tier 4: Level 26, 20 AP - NOPE - > Level 24, 20 AP
Tier 5: Level 30, 30 AP (you may only be in one Tier 5 at a time) - NOPE - > Level 26, 30 AP

That way we can enjoy our build before lvl 30 and the scaling is good

I still voice my opinion of needing to lower the AP required.
30AP for Tier 5 in heroics work, if you have 80AP by level 20 to play with.
A new player without ePLs will have 44AP by level 30. That means, you can EITHER have a T5 in your Tree (13 Remaining AP if you only buy ONE Tier 5 Ability) OR a decent splash in 2 or 3 trees (cause you won't reach the 30AP required in the main tree), not both.
I would still recommend lowering Tier 4 to 15 and Tier 5 to 25 AP because of the lower total AP.

[mr420247]

If your not 3x everything don't bother is the point of all this

Finish ur etrs now

[DRoark]

To the host of people that are going to parachute out when the game ceases to be DDO, good luck in whatever MMO you end up playing